Girfriends son is entitled, lazy, selfish and disrespectful and it's causing problems

October 23, 2018

I can only suggest family counselling for all of you.

"Get Therapy". always the default go-to advice on forums when there's nothing much else to offer.

October 23, 2018

No doubt. If I move out the relationship is over. Other than the problems with her son, things are great. So I end the relationship because she doesn't parent her kid properly and he's a spoiled brat with an attitude?

Why is the relationship over if you move out? Seems like it would improve things, you'd have the uninterrupted time together when he's with dad and you're out of the crossfire and relieved of a role you plainly don't want. Win/win.

I might. Or I'll just wait it out and hopefully he'll be gone to college (probably community college) in 3 years.

Kids like this aren't "gone to community college". They drive there from home...

Mr. Lucky

October 23, 2018

Why is the relationship over if you move out?

We were together 3 years at which point she was looking to end the relationship because she wanted full time or nothing, so I went for it and moved in with her for the past 4 years. No way she'd want to go backwards.

Kids like this aren't "gone to community college". They drive there from home...Mr. Lucky

In my area there are local community colleges and also those that are a few hours away, many students live in dorms at those schools.

October 24, 2018

...I'm not quite ready to give up what might be the best relationship I ever had for a spoiled brat teenager with an attitude...

"Get Therapy". always the default go-to advice on forums when there's nothing much else to offer.

your anger is evident. its very obvious this is a power struggle between him (the boy) and you (the BF). and no wonder, you have made it very clear you have no interest in being a father figure or even making the best of it. the boy must toe YOUR line (your refusal to move out but still date). your latest comments solidify my position the issue is not what you think it is. why don't we try this... same situation but the poster is the GF ---

i am madly in love with by BF. he is the best thing that ever happened to me. we have been together for 7 years and living with my now 15 year old son for 4 years. over the past year or so my son has become withdrawn (in his room, mostly playing video games). his grades are suffering. i literally have to nag, beg and yell to get my son to even 'just take out the trash'. he and my BF get in verbal fights over the smallest things. my BF has, in so many words, said he has no interest in being a father to my son. any advice?

OP the overwhelming response would be --- stop choosing your BF over the son --- tell the BF to leave.

therapy is designed to allow you to vent to a person without direct involvement and give you alternative cooping skills for difficult situations. we all know when a 6 month old is screaming to --- change the diaper, feed, soothe, BUT not yell, shake or hit. the baby in its own way is attempting to communicate. well so is 'the boy'. while we desire them to 'act like adults' they are far from it. his body is flooding him with 'chemicals' then not, seriously how could you forget those years. he has had literally two men in his life AND BOTH ARE FAILING HIM. and you want????

fine you want 'real' advice --- find a quiet moment with just you and your GF, no alcohol, no tv, no distractions. ask her what she wants and what she thinks would be best for her son? then say nothing. allow her as much time as she needs to talk about her thoughts and feelings. i am guessing you won't because we both already know the answer.

October 24, 2018

This will get far worse before (or if) it gets better. The kid isnt going to do anything different, and will end up a very angry and possibly violent 18 year old with little future. Its all up to Mom to decide to be a parent. If she doesnt, I sure dont want to read how this thread ends up in a year or two, because it wont be pretty.

Mom is not teaching the son anything, least of all responsibility and adulting. He will be 18 before you can bat an eye. How will he leave home? Why will he leave home? as long as he has his friends, his drugs, and his video games, he will plant himself in his room for days on end. Because he can. Do you think your girlfriend will ever kick him out?

There are threads on many forums about how kids like these end up, at 18, at 25, at 30. Unless one of you make a complete 180 and decide to parent, nothing will change. He wants computer time? He needs to earn it. Where is he getting money to buy his vaping?

Mom isnt doing him any favors, Im afraid.

October 24, 2018

your anger is evident. its very obvious this is a power struggle between him (the boy) and you (the BF). and no wonder, you have made it very clear you have no interest in being a father figure or even making the best of it.

For what it's worth, for the first 6 years we got along well and I have been involved in his life in a positive way. When the attitude changed and went from bad to worse, I responded by drawing a hard line, doing the whole yelling thing since mom's methods were ineffective. I got too much backlash "the yelling isn't helping" and she wasn't doing anything about the issue so I said screw this and just retreated to the point of basically ignoring all of it. He can sink or swim, nothing I can do about it so why bother. I've had 2 kids, been through the same hassles of their teenage years compounded by my own divorce and alienating tactics by my exwife. Not going there again.

the boy must toe YOUR line (your refusal to move out but still date).

The boy IS the problem. Sure I'm not doing much if anything to try to resolve the situation of his poor attitude but I am not the CAUSE of it.

the overwhelming response would be --- stop choosing your BF over the son --- tell the BF to leave.

Except we don't get into verbal fights over the smallest things. In the past I'd yell at him when the disrespect completely crossed the line or mom asked him to do something for the upteenth time and was again ignored. He wouldn't talk back, he'd just make a lame attempt to do whatever it was. There was one very heated argument a couple of weeks back and now we're pretty much back to leaving each other alone for the most part. I don't think me leaving is going to change the situation at all, if anything he'll probably disrespect his mother even MORE.

find a quiet moment with just you and your GF, no alcohol, no tv, no distractions. ask her what she wants and what she thinks would be best for her son? then say nothing. allow her as much time as she needs to talk about her thoughts and feelings. i am guessing you won't because we both already know the answer.

We've had those talks. She vacilates between "I have to really keep on him and watch everything he does and check his school work on a daily basis and really enforce punishment" to "he's almost 16 if he ends up doing poorly in school and in his life then it's something he's going to have to live with" or something like that coupled with "just try to get along with him as best you can so we can live like a family".

We had dinner last night. We all made a good attempt to get along, I chatted with him about his latest passion which is racing cars- he wants to build one and have it all ready to go so he can do "drifting" which is a particular racing sub sport, as soon as he gets his license. He had some sort of optional school day today where they bring in speakers to talk about everything from child sex trafficking to drug addiction- including actual drug addicts talking to the kids. He didn't want to go to this thing, he's been complaining for weeks. Mom maintained "it's important, the school and teachers put a lot of time and money into this event, and you are going!". Well after more complaining last night she said "fine you don't have to go but you will get up early at 8:30 and clean up your room and study for tests. He's in his room listening to youtube videos as I type this (its almost 9:30, leaving for work soon).

Sure I could go in there and tell him to do what mom asked him to, he'd probably nod and act like he was going to pick up a book or something and as soon as I leave.. (you finish the sentence)

October 24, 2018

Where is he getting money to buy his vaping?

Mom isnt doing him any favors, Im afraid.

You're right she isn't, she's way too soft on him. I asked her the same question about the money for the vaping supplies. She said when he visits with his dad, he spends time in his shop and dad gives him money which he saves. Personally I think it came out of her wallet, either with or without her knowledge- or both.

October 24, 2018

I responded by drawing a hard line, doing the whole yelling thing since mom's methods were ineffective. I got too much backlash "the yelling isn't helping" and she wasn't doing anything about the issue so I said screw this and just retreated to the point of basically ignoring all of it.

Is yelling the only thing you know how to do? After you realized it's not working why didn't you take another avenue? Like installing consequences? The part that mom is unwilling to do you could take over. You cut the wi-fi, you take away the video-games, you make him sit at the kitchen table for homework. Yelling doesn't work, we're in 2019 and we have tons and tons of literature that proves it, why you fell for that? Could it be because it's easy to yell? more easy than applying consequences and following through? Just like mom does.

The boy IS the problem. Sure I'm not doing much if anything to try to resolve the situation of his poor attitude but I am not the CAUSE of it.

Again, he's a kid, his mom and you are responsible for the way he is today.

Yes you are the cause, you gave up on him when it got a little tougher. You and mom caused this. And you and mom are part of the solution but you both prefer the easy way.

We've had those talks. She vacilates between "I have to really keep on him and watch everything he does and check his school work on a daily basis and really enforce punishment"

Well what do you know! She does know what good parenting is.

to "he's almost 16 if he ends up doing poorly in school and in his life then it's something he's going to have to live with" or something like that coupled with "just try to get along with him as best you can so we can live like a family".

Shameful, absolutely shameful !!! He doesn't have the maturity, the knowledge, to understand what he does today will affect his future because the capacity to think long term is in our frontal brain and his isn't fully developed yet! So, even before this kid is able to think for himself she abandons him.

I've explained earlier I have the guardianship of a 14 year old. Every night we sit together for her homework. She told me her mom never did that, never helped her, never supervised her, and once school called her mom to tell her she had several missing homework the mom said to her well do as you wish it's your life and your consequences. I was mortified to hear this!!! Then I calm down and thought well her mom never finished high school so education was never something she instigated in her children. I could somewhat explain it to myself. So my question is what level of education your gf has?

He's in his room listening to youtube videos as I type this (its almost 9:30, leaving for work soon).

Honestly what else did you expect? The kid must be laughing in your back, you yell and make threats but he never gets consequences. Why would he suddenly change?

Sure I could go in there and tell him to do what mom asked him to, he'd probably nod and act like he was going to pick up a book or something and as soon as I leave.. (you finish the sentence)

You could tell him that his mom and you have came to an agreement. From 18h to 19h the wi-fi and videogames are taken away so he can do his homework and they will be remitted to him when homework is done.

October 24, 2018

Is yelling the only thing you know how to do? After you realized it's not working why didn't you take another avenue?

I thought it worked fine. At least temporarily.

Like installing consequences? The part that mom is unwilling to do you could take over.

Problem is I work late most nights. I'm not around all that much, and when you add the time he's with his dad, I don't see him much during the week. Meanwhile mom is home with him every night after 5 and some days she works from home. If she isn't going to enforce rules and discipline it's not going to happen.

Could it be because it's easy to yell? more easy than applying consequences and following through? Just like mom does.

Yes.

Shameful, absolutely shameful !!! He doesn't have the maturity, the knowledge, to understand what he does today will affect his future because the capacity to think long term is in our frontal brain and his isn't fully developed yet! So, even before this kid is able to think for himself she abandons him.

She's not abandoning him. She says that mostly out of frustration. Then she makes a lame attempt to discipline him and enforce the rules and fails miserably because he guilts her to back off.

So my question is what level of education your gf has?

She works a high level job at a large company, she's moved around a few times over the years and at one point was at a VP level earning over $300k before sweeping layoffs, now now she's earning about 2/3 that. She was always 4.0 in college, mostly paid for via scholarships, she has advanced degrees- she's highly intelligent and achieving.

Honestly what else did you expect? The kid must be laughing in your back, you yell and make threats but he never gets consequences. Why would he suddenly change?

You sound like me. That's what I tell her! He's totally screwing with her head no different than a dog that acts well behaved until you leave the kitchen with the meat on the counter.

You could tell him that his mom and you have came to an agreement. From 18h to 19h the wi-fi and videogames are taken away so he can do his homework and they will be remitted to him when homework is done.

Again, it's gotta be enforced and it's not happening.

This morning when I stood outside his door before I left for work, and heard him listening to youtube videos when he should have been studying for the past hour as promised, I thought about the possible choices.

Go in there scream at him that he is once again breaking his promise and not doing what he's supposed to do.

Go in there and calmly discuss that if he continues to goof off and ignore his responsibilities he'll be eating dinner out of a dumpster some day.

Leave and go to work

Leave and go to work and tell mom he was goofing off and once again is totally screwing with her head by making all these promises and not following through.

I left and went to work.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Normm

October 24, 2018

Go in there scream at him that he is once again breaking his promise and not doing what he's supposed to do.
Go in there and calmly discuss that if he continues to goof off and ignore his responsibilities he'll be eating dinner out of a dumpster some day.
Leave and go to work
Leave and go to work and tell mom he was goofing off and once again is totally screwing with her head by making all these promises and not following through.

I left and went to work.

Why cutting the Internet wasn't an option? I have an app on my phone I am the only boss of wi-fi. I don't yell, ever.

October 24, 2018

Why cutting the Internet wasn't an option? I have an app on my phone I am the only boss of wi-fi. I don't yell, ever.

Gaeta, cutting the internet is a GREAT option. He's got a dysfunctional dad who isn't involved in his school progress or enforcing responsibilities at all (his dad is a disorganized slob, and his financial irresponsibility was a huge issue during their marriage- he's almost broke now). His mom tries, and she does care- but in the end she doesn't enforce rules because of guilt or whatever.

So the kids got two parents, neither of which are getting the job done, I don't see him much at all, mostly later in the evenings and alternate weekends from Saturday afternoon through Sunday night. I'm supposed to show up on the scene and be the one to really lean on this kid? No thanks. If his parents aren't going to get it done then it's not going to happen and again I'm not really looking how to better discipline or punish this kid, we are way past that. I'm just looking for a way to comfortably co-exist until he's old enough to be on his own.

October 24, 2018

We were together 3 years at which point she was looking to end the relationship because she wanted full time or nothing, so I went for it and moved in with her for the past 4 years. No way she'd want to go backwards.

Then Normm. it would seem your choices are pretty clear:

- break off the relationship and look for a healthier, less stressful romantic situation and partner

- continue cohabitation but withdraw from the family dynamic completely. Move from de facto step-parent to roommate and just keep your head down and mouth shut

- stay the course and continue to post about your frustration

Let us know how you proceed, hope things work out for you...

Mr. Lucky

October 24, 2018

- continue cohabitation but withdraw from the family dynamic completely. Move from de facto step-parent to roommate and just keep your head down and mouth shut

I'm totally down with this.

October 24, 2018

I'm totally down with this.

I think that’s the worst option. It’ll build resentment in all of you. The boy will feel rejected, the gf will feel like she’s not being supported, and you OP will feel left out (even if you think you have actively chosen the passive role in this).

I don’t know. You’re in a partnership with this woman, and although you keep saying you’re not in charge, you’re not the parent, and you’re not even the stepparent because you’re not officially married, you’re still a part of that family.

With your attitude right now (and I’m not criticizing it, I’m just observing, and I can totally understand your frustration, even though I feel worse for the boy), I’d say get your own place. The living together thing hasn’t worked for a while now, and even though you say the R would be over if you moved out, I think the R will erode over time anyway, IF you don’t change the situation somehow.

Would you be OK with two separate households? I know you said she wouldn’t, but what about yourself? This might actually improve things, esp because, like you said, the R is strong in all other aspects. If this is an option YOU would be ok with, sit her down and explain to her that you’re not leaving her, you still love her, you’ll still be there for her, but that you think it’s better for all involved if you have your own places. Three years from now he’ll be moved out (possibly), he’ll be independent, he’ll go to college, he’ll have a job, maybe a GF, and then you can move back in together again. It is better that way, imo, because all the tension is bad for your R, and will also not make her son’s behavior any better.

October 24, 2018

Would you be OK with two separate households? I know you said she wouldn’t, but what about yourself?

Moving out (which will most likely be the demise of the relationship) only because of the issues with her son is not an option I'm going to even remotely consider. Now if at some future point he turned into this crazy wild hostile angry degenerate of a teenager and the household became toxic that might be another story.

October 24, 2018

If you're living with the mother and child, you are a step parent regardless of your marital status.

You can't expect to have it both ways. The kid is there, like it or not. You can't just pretend that he doesn't exist while you do whatever you like, live with his mum with no responsibility towards him, and then expect him to give you the kind of respect that a parent expects.

Mum should certainly step up, but it's not really your place to say that if you're unwilling to play an active role in the kid's life yourself. If you want to have any say about the kid, you need to take on the corresponding responsibility.

October 24, 2018

You can't just pretend that he doesn't exist while you do whatever you like, live with his mum with no responsibility towards him, and then expect him to give you the kind of respect that a parent expects.

I don't expect him to give me the respect a parent deserves considering I don't act like a parent towards him. I don't expect anything from him.

If you want to have any say about the kid, you need to take on the corresponding responsibility.

I don't want to have any say. I am past the point of caring what he does as long as he stays out of my way and I stay out of his way. I'm shooting for something less than ignoring one another, more along the lines of mutual acceptance of being joint members of the household.

October 24, 2018

It's always a hard situation. I mean, if the mother and father don't have a solid program in place and set boundaries and expectations and discipline and been doing it since the child was small, you can't just start doing it and expect it to work once the child is a teen.

I mean, mothers and fathers will often overlook things especially their sons do as normal when they're just getting away with crap. I mean, you see on the news at least once a week the mother of murderers who is stone cold convinced their baby would never do that. They just still see them as little boys and they hold onto that. It's hard to change old patterns and love blindness. And you used to be able to say, Just stay out of his way and he'll be 18 and be out on his own in a couple of years. Not so anymore. As long as he's getting what he wants at home, he may be there until he's 40. And scarily enough, this is not an unpleasant thought to some mothers.

October 24, 2018

"Get Therapy". always the default go-to advice on forums when there's nothing much else to offer.

That's because we're just a bunch of strangers offering up life experience. But when things get serious - or if a child is at risk - there is no substitute for professional advice.

And for the record, the parenting help we've had from a child psychologist was second to none. Certainly far better than a heap of contradictory advice from untrained strangers.

October 24, 2018

I don't expect him to give me the respect a parent deserves considering I don't act like a parent towards him. I don't expect anything from him.

I don't want to have any say. I am past the point of caring what he does as long as he stays out of my way and I stay out of his way. I'm shooting for something less than ignoring one another, more along the lines of mutual acceptance of being joint members of the household.

Like it or not, you are his strongest male role model. What do your actions teach him? Because I'm getting that from you he's learning to shut down and be obstinate when the going gets tough.

October 24, 2018

Like it or not, you are his strongest male role model. What do your actions teach him? Because I'm getting that from you he's learning to shut down and be obstinate when the going gets tough.

Chicken or the egg, which came first? I was all those positive things until he went from bad to worse and I found myself banging my head against the wall and finally decided to treat and let his parents deal with it.

Things really reached a head these past few days, she apparently spoke to him about the "rift" between us- he went out of his way to be friendly last night, I returned the friendliness and will continue to try to do something more than pretend he doesn't exist. Still trying to figure out where I'm going to end up- keep my mouth shut when it comes to his discipline and rule breaking and all of that, or continue to make suggestions to his mom- but I'm going to stop short of trying to get it done myself.

October 24, 2018

Chicken or the egg, which came first? I was all those positive things until he went from bad to worse and I found myself banging my head against the wall and finally decided to treat and let his parents deal with it.

Things really reached a head these past few days, she apparently spoke to him about the "rift" between us- he went out of his way to be friendly last night, I returned the friendliness and will continue to try to do something more than pretend he doesn't exist. Still trying to figure out where I'm going to end up- keep my mouth shut when it comes to his discipline and rule breaking and all of that, or continue to make suggestions to his mom- but I'm going to stop short of trying to get it done myself.

Glad to hear the two of you connected recently.

I would strongly advise you to not offer parenting suggestions. Instead, when she complains about her son, suggest she seeks professional advice. She's much more likely to listen to someone who's got mountains of experience with understanding troubled adolescent boys. And the advice coming from a professional is going to be far better than a layperson.

October 24, 2018

She's much more likely to listen to someone who's got mountains of experience with understanding troubled adolescent boys. And the advice coming from a professional is going to be far better than a layperson.

Hard to disagree. Normm, you and the GF have had a 4-yr window to apply the current system. And you've been pretty up front about the results.

Might be time to get all 3 of you out of your (un)comfort zone and get some professional help. Low-risk proposition and hard to see how the results could be worse than they already are. Look at it this way - the "not so hidden" agenda is to get Mom some help with her parenting skills. Any improvement on the part of anyone else is a bonus...

Mr. Lucky

October 25, 2018

We've had those talks. She vacilates between "I have to really keep on him and watch everything he does and check his school work on a daily basis and really enforce punishment" to "he's almost 16 if he ends up doing poorly in school and in his life then it's something he's going to have to live with" or something like that coupled with "just try to get along with him as best you can so we can live like a family".

Ive got a news flash for your gf. If she doesnt step up to the plate and give him some some life lessons on how to be responsible and and get an education, and then a job, then his problem is going to be her problem for a very long time. What is she going to do when he turns 18 and he has no job, and no interest in school...kick him out? Highly unlikely.

Change the password on the Wifi. Give him chores that have to be done, keeping his room respectable and doing his own laundry isnt asking too much. He has GOT to get his grades up if he has any hope of getting any further education. Wifi isnt free. He has to contribute if he wants it.

But I know this wont happen.

October 25, 2018

Change the password on the Wifi. Give him chores that have to be done, keeping his room respectable and doing his own laundry isnt asking too much. He has GOT to get his grades up if he has any hope of getting any further education. Wifi isnt free. He has to contribute if he wants it.

But I know this wont happen.

You're right it probably won't happen. If he was my kid and I had support from his mom that's exactly what would happen. Then again if he was our kid we probably wouldn't still be together.

We both got home from work tonight- he was supposed to do a half a dozen chores including cleaning his room. He might have studied, who knows. His room? It wasn't done. I said to his mom- what happened with his room- she got upset and said "Don't judge me!". What am I supposed to do with that? He's got not one but 2 parents that refuse to discipline him, enforce rules and follow through- I'm supposed to take on that role all by myself? No thanks.

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Girfriends son is entitled, lazy, selfish and disrespectful and it's causing problems

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