Never thought I'd be an OW (long post)

[Snipercatt]

I don’t think it is so much that you have back tracked. I think it is more that you are treading water rather than leaving the pool. To move forward you have to leave the pool. Cut all contact. Block him. He will find you when/if he has separated - which doesn’t mean he isn’t still a cad (so he may still have deep work to do following separation before he is good partner material.

[lolita888]

I have watched this sometime ago, about some people who ended up having an A and staying with the MM/MW despite the pain they caused them.

 

 

It seems that most of the time, these people who ended up falling for MP actually has problems of not feeling "loved". They spent their life, feeling unloved, unwanted and all - no matter how much their family, spouse or friends makes them feel loved they still don't feel it. It wasn't enough and will never be enough. So they go on look for that loved.

 

 

 

Unfortunately the MM/MW is someone that makes them feel loved - mostly because of the effort they do to be with them. It doesn't matter if they can only spend a few hours with them. It doesn't matter matter if they have to be kept as a secret. But the fact that this person is taking the risk of losing everything just to be with them is what makes them feel loved.

 

It doesn't matter if he couldn't live his wife yet, because that is the "right" thing to do.

 

But that is also one of the things that makes them feel loved. That person choose to stay with their BS because it's the right thing to do but he/she choose to spend time with the OP even if it's wrong.

 

 

After reading this thread. Seeing how many lies your MM created over the years. Seeing how you get pulled back again and again. And how you still can't completely let go of your MM. Makes me think that maybe you need to find that love - yourself. If you already went to IC but still don't feel that all healed and still can't completely let go of your MM and still can't see the truth with his lies, then the only one that can fix yourself is you alone.

[BaileyB]

He will find you when/if he has separated - which doesn’t mean he isn’t still a cad.

 

Exactly my post above. Whether he is married or single, he is still a cad.

[assertives]

All you know is those pieces that you parse in this thread, and it's always the most negative aspects. But there is a lot of good in him. We've had a lot of positives and one negative, albeit a big one. Few people are all bad, or all good. He's no exception. It is possible he has just been human and confused and afraid, thereby making bad decisions. Or he is nothing more than a lying, cheating cad. The next couple of months will tell the story.

 

I think the scary thing is that it is very subtle. So subtle that sometimes you don't realise until you are in the thick of it. Looking at what you said above, you have already started to convince us or maybe yourself that there is a good side to satan 2.0 and that maybe satan 2.0 isn't that bad after all. As for the threatening to tell his BS, you have already threatened to do that if he contacts you again the last time you met. Well, now he's contacted you again, and even got your permission to call you. You are not going to rat on him to his BS. He knows that. Maybe he knows you better than you know yourself.

 

I forgot to add in my earlier post. Not only has he manipulated you, his wife, kids, extended family, Jane and Dick... He has also manipulated his entire community since you said he's known to be a respectable person. Which respectable person goes out and have affairs and treat his wife like the annoying gum under his shoe?

 

I understand we are all humans and we make mistakes too. If starting an affair and catching feelings was a mistake, then he should have done what is right by his family. Coming clean, asking for forgiveness, or telling them I've met someone, let's discuss how to end this amicably.

 

Instead of blowing hot and cold with them and rubbing it in their faces by being blatantly out all day and all night and skipping birthdays, anniversaries and mothers' day. The mothers' day shenanigans was the most cruel I feel. It was not just a disregard/invalidating her as his wife, but also disregard/invalidating his children's feelings and her as the mother of his children. He must really loathe and detest her as a human being. Again, what respectable man does that?

 

Married or not, I wouldn't touch someone like that with a ten foot pole.

[Starswillshine]

Any sort of reaction from you gives this man something. Anger... it means you still care... ego boost.

 

Kat, I know what you are reading into. You are thinking... I have been so cruel to hin and havent given up the goods, and yet he still sticks around, he must really love me. Kat, no, it does not mean that.

[BaileyB]

Any sort of reaction from you gives this man something. Anger... it means you still care... ego boost.

 

Kat, I know what you are reading into. You are thinking... I have been so cruel to hin and havent given up the goods, and yet he still sticks around, he must really love me. Kat, no, it does not mean that.

 

This is exactly what you are thinking.

 

He has said he is leaving, even given I'm not a sure thing. The month without me has shown him that he really doesn't want to be with her to which I responded "why is this time any different than the previous several months? He said he realizes I made the marriage tolerable. I filled all the empty spaces. He says it's because he realized he gave up the best thing he's ever had and he's realized he fears that more than leaving. What he has isn't what he wants for his life. My texts made him face that and that isn't how he wants to live his life.

 

And this, is exactly why you think that. This is your ego boost. He knows just what to say to get you to open the door a little bit wider... appeal to your ego. It’s music to your ears...

[elaine567]

Whilst we are on the subject of music... I wonder if he plays this to his wife too?

 

"I'm never gonna let you go

I'm gonna hold you in my arms forever

Gonna try and make up for all the times

I hurt you so

Gonna hold your body close to mine

From this day on we're gonna be together

Oh I swear this time

I'm never gonna let you go

Looking back now

It seems so clear

I had it all when you were here

Oh you gave it all

And I took it for granted

But if there's some feeling left in you

Some flickers of love

That still shines through

Let's talk it out

Let's talk about second chances

Wait and see

It's gonna be sweeter than it was before

I gave some then but now I intend

To dedicate myself to giving more

This time you can be sure

I'm never gonna let you go

I'm gonna hold you in my arms forever

Gonna try and make up for all the times

I hurt you so

Oh, so if you'll just say"

You want me too...

[Starswillshine]

Adding also... you told him you went on dates or looking for dates.

 

"But wait, my sweet goddess Kat, I'm going to leave. Just after I do these reno." Then it will be when the sick dog dies. Or when his neighbor can let go. Or some other crap.

 

You're too close to this all to see what is so obvious to everyone else. This is why you need to stop ALL contact with him. Block him, dont look at his social. Give yourself that for at least a couple of weeks to clear your head so you can see things more clearer.

[sagamore]

The affair is not over until he can no longer use you to prop himself up emotionally.

 

Until then, you’re still in a relationship with a man your daughter has already told you she can’t respect.

[What_Did_I_Do]

LKK, I'm the last one here to preach about what you should and shouldn't do. It's kind of like smoking - those addicted are fully aware of the risks but keep doing it anyway.

 

Unfortunately, your MM's story is/was a lot like mine. There was always an excuse as to why he couldn't leave *then*. But he eventually did leave and it wasn't a relief because I held my breath the entire time...will he go back? He can't go back...we've come this far. Then it all came crashing down when he did go back. To 'save money' for the house sale this spring. There were renos to be done as well to prep the house. Doubt that house is for sale and lord only knows if any renos were done.

 

Keep moving forward with your friends, counselling and hobbies. My friends were SO amazing. They gave me the strength to put one foot in front of the other.

[Naivewomen]

Kat, I think you are doing a great job being in this horrible situation. Do not let him take control of you emotionally anymore. Try detaching as best as you can. You hold the power now and know your value. If he walks so be it!! Once you realize you have your personal power to ward off the bullsxit words he feeds you, you will regain strength everyday forward. I feel stronger because I own myself again if that makes sense. I'm not a crumb eater anymore!!

[WasOtherWoman]

I am not banking on anything. I told him ages ago that he should not conflate his marriage and the affair. He should leave his marriage IF it is dead, lifeless and loveless as he states. He should not be leaving for me, or anyone else.

 

I am not waiting around for him. He knows that. I told him I’ve had a couple of dates. I’ve also signed up for a hiking and cycling club. I am starting going to church with a work colleague. I’m in therapy. I’ve rejoined my gym and have personal training sessions set up. I am moving my life forward the best I can. Without him.

 

Good work. I know it is hard, but going about the business of rebuilding your life is great.

[Bittersweetie]

Kat, I'm wondering if going full NC right now might be helpful for you. Not for forever, but for a set period of time in order for you to focus on your own healing from the end of your marriage, from your xH, from this affair. The next time you talk to him, say "I need some space for six months. Call me then."

 

That way you have some time to focus on yourself, and he can do whatever he's doing without you hearing the details. Then in six months, he calls you and you find out where he's at, you can decide how to move forward with a healed and stronger mind and heart.

 

I'm not suggesting this NC to stick it to him, or as an ultimatum, or anything really to do with him. It just seems that you having some space from him, for a set period of time, could be beneficial to your heart and healing right now. Just a suggestion.

[anika99]

LKK, I'm the last one here to preach about what you should and shouldn't do. It's kind of like smoking - those addicted are fully aware of the risks but keep doing it anyway.

 

Unfortunately, your MM's story is/was a lot like mine. There was always an excuse as to why he couldn't leave *then*. But he eventually did leave and it wasn't a relief because I held my breath the entire time...will he go back? He can't go back...we've come this far. Then it all came crashing down when he did go back. To 'save money' for the house sale this spring. There were renos to be done as well to prep the house. Doubt that house is for sale and lord only knows if any renos were done.

 

Keep moving forward with your friends, counselling and hobbies. My friends were SO amazing. They gave me the strength to put one foot in front of the other.

 

I have long thought that even if the MM in this story did, by some miracle, manage to leave, he is exactly the type who would go running back home within a few weeks. He won't be able to handle it.

[georgia girl]

LKK,

 

Admittedly, it’s been a long time since I went through the awful process of the end of a relationship. Reading your posts reminds me of those days and the awful emotional roller coaster that learning to let go brings. Yes, you both still care for each other, but here’s the painful truths:

 

1) His call brought you no more new information. It was another promise of “I’m leaving when...” and only the dates and circumstances have changed.

2) Yes, he was upset, crying and missing you. We ALL feel that pain when we lose someone we love, even if he has passively not chosen you. It still hurts for him. So, he did what all selfish people do. He reached out, shared with you the depth of his pain (not yours, by the way) and attempted a new grand bargain where he gains at least a part of you back with the promise of someday.

3) Despite your words, you and I both know that you can’t fully move on until you stop having contact with him. Contact = hope. But you will find that hope in these circumstances quickly fades and your are left in an even more lonely place with even less strength to move on.

 

Kat, it really truly IS over. Maybe one day, he gets his head straight, gets a divorce and comes to find you. And maybe in those circumstances, you could start anew, burying the old hurts and learning how to relate to each other in a healthy way. But at this poking, too much water is under the bridge. You really have to let go.

 

The beginning of the end happened before the trip to Hawaii. You have been stuck in the middle of the end for awhile now and this is the torture part. Please, do yourself a favor and make this the end of the end. It’s the only way you go forward.

 

Hugs, GG

[sandylee1]

I think the scary thing is that it is very subtle.

I forgot to add in my earlier post. Not only has he manipulated you, his wife, kids, extended family, Jane and Dick... He has also manipulated his entire community since you said he's known to be a respectable person. Which respectable person goes out and have affairs and treat his wife like the annoying gum under his shoe?

 

I understand we are all humans and we make mistakes too. If starting an affair and catching feelings was a mistake, then he should have done what is right by his family. Coming clean, asking for forgiveness, or telling them I've met someone, let's discuss how to end this amicably.

 

Instead of blowing hot and cold with them and rubbing it in their faces by being blatantly out all day and all night and skipping birthdays, anniversaries and mothers' day. The mothers' day shenanigans was the most cruel I feel. It was not just a disregard/invalidating her as his wife, but also disregard/invalidating his children's feelings and her as the mother of his children. He must really loathe and detest her as a human being. Again, what respectable man does that?

 

The thing about human beings is we sometimes disregard bad things that someone does to other people, if they don't do those things to us.

 

We tell ourselves he/she is behaving that way because they don't love that person and they prioritise us over them.

 

So where the BS is left alone on significant occasions and we get the attention, it massages our ego and we feel like the chosen one.

[PhoenixRising8]

These are your words from a week ago Kat. What has changed, such that you are now talking with him again and possibly considering taking him back, if/when he files for divorce?

 

What has changed is that I have let go of the anger. It was toxic and doing more harm to me than good.

 

Unlike some posters, who only see black and white, good or bad, I see shades of grey. I am the one who has spent a lot of in person time with him the last year. I know the person, not just from the angry or hurt posts that are on this thread.

 

Do I agree with every action he has taken in the last year? Absolutely not. Do I understand his fear and confusion? Yes I do. He isn’t perfect and he hasn’t handled things well, no doubt. But for the incident with my daughter, who knows how much longer it would have taken me to throw the ex out. So maybe I’m projecting onto him what I felt. The truth is that I give people the benefit of the doubt, especially when I know that basically they are good people. I’ve done things I’m not proud of but it doesn’t mean I’m a bad person. Even my ex has had many moments of good over the years. And maybe it’s this seeing the good in people that opens me up to being hurt. I’d rather that than be jaded though.

[PhoenixRising8]

 

I understand we are all humans and we make mistakes too. If starting an affair and catching feelings was a mistake, then he should have done what is right by his family. Coming clean, asking for forgiveness, or telling them I've met someone, let's discuss how to end this amicably.

 

Instead of blowing hot and cold with them and rubbing it in their faces by being blatantly out all day and all night and skipping birthdays, anniversaries and mothers' day. The mothers' day shenanigans was the most cruel I feel. It was not just a disregard/invalidating her as his wife, but also disregard/invalidating his children's feelings and her as the mother of his children. He must really loathe and detest her as a human being. Again, what respectable man does that?

 

Married or not, I wouldn't touch someone like that with a ten foot pole.

 

There is a segment of posters that believe the only option is to tell it all. I’m not sure I believe that’s best in all cases. If you’re leaving and the spouse doesn’t know definitively, what is the point of rubbing it in their face as you’re walking out? Why devastate them doubly with a betrayal AND abandonment? What purpose does that serve? If you’re going to stay then I see greater value in telling because it’s hard to rebuild when there is a massive secret between you and your spouse. If it was something brief and inconsequential, maybe no need but this was neither brief nor inconsequential.

[PhoenixRising8]

LKK, I'm the last one here to preach about what you should and shouldn't do. It's kind of like smoking - those addicted are fully aware of the risks but keep doing it anyway.

 

Unfortunately, your MM's story is/was a lot like mine. There was always an excuse as to why he couldn't leave *then*. But he eventually did leave and it wasn't a relief because I held my breath the entire time...will he go back? He can't go back...we've come this far. Then it all came crashing down when he did go back. To 'save money' for the house sale this spring. There were renos to be done as well to prep the house. Doubt that house is for sale and lord only knows if any renos were done.

 

Keep moving forward with your friends, counselling and hobbies. My friends were SO amazing. They gave me the strength to put one foot in front of the other.

 

I’m so sorry you experienced this. I can only imagine what this felt like.

 

I can honestly say that I have wondered if he would go back. It’s why I have told him even IF he leaves, moving in with me is not an option. He needs to be on his own for a period of time. IF he leaves I want to see how he handles it. IF he leaves, he can work to regain my trust. I opened up to him like to no one else before him. He would have to earn it back. We would have to see if there isn’t actually too much water under the bridge to be able to make a go of it.

[PhoenixRising8]

@naivewomen and WOW thank you for your kind words and encouragement. It’s good to get some positive reinforcement for the steps I am taking.

[PhoenixRising8]

Kat, I'm wondering if going full NC right now might be helpful for you. Not for forever, but for a set period of time in order for you to focus on your own healing from the end of your marriage, from your xH, from this affair. The next time you talk to him, say "I need some space for six months. Call me then."

 

That way you have some time to focus on yourself, and he can do whatever he's doing without you hearing the details. Then in six months, he calls you and you find out where he's at, you can decide how to move forward with a healed and stronger mind and heart.

 

I'm not suggesting this NC to stick it to him, or as an ultimatum, or anything really to do with him. It just seems that you having some space from him, for a set period of time, could be beneficial to your heart and healing right now. Just a suggestion.

 

Thank you for that perspective Bittersweetie. I will give it serious consideration as it does make some sense. It won’t hurt him either. Seemingly he hasn’t had a much easier time of it than I have. It will give both of us time and perspective to figure out what we really want. It will definitely be helpful for him. He’ll either determine he can live with his wife or that he’d rather not. At this point he says he’d rather not and he’ll abide by my boundaries so that he can gain my trust again but that’s today. He’s been known to change his mind lol.

[elaine567]

Does it not seem a bit cheesy and basically designed to manipulate you? You are 50 something, are you not a bit old to be swayed by song lyrics?

 

As for it being "your song", you will not be the first OW to realise that MM tend to lack imagination as far as wooing is concerned.

She often gets the same if not identical treatment as the wife, down to even the same presents.

He realises he needs to lie a lot, so a lot easier to remember both women got bracelets as opposed to one getting a necklace and the other some earrings...

"your song" may be "their song" too...

[PhoenixRising8]

You have been stuck in the middle of the end for awhile now and this is the torture part. Please, do yourself a favor and make this the end of the end. It’s the only way you go forward.

 

Hugs, GG

 

After reading your post, I agree that we may very well be stuck in the middle of the end rather than the end itself. I had thought that it was the end. It is possible I suppose that our so called end has caused him to have an epiphany lol because he is adamant it is us he wants and he can’t see spending the rest of his life living it the way he has the last month. It’s why he’s prepared to respect any and all boundaries I place. Is is fact or fiction? Time will tell.

Edited March 21, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
quote edited

[PhoenixRising8]

Does it not seem a bit cheesy and basically designed to manipulate you? You are 50 something, are you not a bit old to be swayed by song lyrics?

 

As for it being "your song", you will not be the first OW to realise that MM tend to lack imagination as far as wooing is concerned.

She often gets the same if not identical treatment as the wife, down to even the same presents.

He realises he needs to lie a lot, so a lot easier to remember both women got bracelets as opposed to one getting a necklace and the other some earrings...

"your song" may be "their song" too...

 

First of all, the lyrics you posted are not “our song”. They are the lyrics to a song he stumbled across when he was listening to songs from 1983. I had never heard the song before. It resonated with him and he couldn’t stop listening to it because it hit home for him that we are over and he doesn’t want to let me go. So he says.

 

Our song is “between now and forever” by Brian white from 1994. It wouldn’t be their song also because until he met me he didn’t listen to country music. It came on while we were together, it resonated with us and became our song. Just like “naturally “ and “the heart wants what it wants” both by Selena Gomez. Cheesy? He’ll yeah but what can I say I’ve always been a hopeless romantic. Seems he can be too.

[Starswillshine]

What has changed is that I have let go of the anger. It was toxic and doing more harm to me than good.

 

Unlike some posters, who only see black and white, good or bad, I see shades of grey. I am the one who has spent a lot of in person time with him the last year. I know the person, not just from the angry or hurt posts that are on this thread.

 

Do I agree with every action he has taken in the last year? Absolutely not. Do I understand his fear and confusion? Yes I do. He isn’t perfect and he hasn’t handled things well, no doubt. But for the incident with my daughter, who knows how much longer it would have taken me to throw the ex out. So maybe I’m projecting onto him what I felt. The truth is that I give people the benefit of the doubt, especially when I know that basically they are good people. I’ve done things I’m not proud of but it doesn’t mean I’m a bad person. Even my ex has had many moments of good over the years. And maybe it’s this seeing the good in people that opens me up to being hurt. I’d rather that than be jaded though.

 

Except lacking personal boundaries for yourself and allowing people to walk right over you will cause you to be jaded.

 

I stopped this behavior and I am far from jaded. Because I know good people exist... because I exist. I'm not the only person walking this earth that doesn't cheat, betray, lie, manipulate. I'm not so weak to allow the actions of a few people to destroy my view of the world and of love because what I felt was real, my loyalties were real. However, I put up boundaries and stop allowing people to walk all over me like a doormat.

 

I couldnt imagine being in your position if he ever does leave. How could you get past his betrayals of you? You're not being enough to make a decisive decision. Nothing about that describes a hopeless romantic. Nah, I dont want love like that, and you shouldnt either.