BTDT2012 Posted March 6, 2019 Posted March 6, 2019 Text him to cancel tomorrow’s meeting. Tell him if he ever reaches out to you again you are calling his wife. THAT is the way you take back your power. You keep willingly handing it back over to him. Stop betraying yourself. Better still, just don't show up, and don't answer the phone. 1
BaileyB Posted March 6, 2019 Posted March 6, 2019 Explore with your therapist why you keep going back for more pain when you could choose peace and quiet instead. Agreed. You say you are “slowly letting go” but in truth, you continue to go back time and again when you know, it’s only going to bring you more pain. It’s more than just ”your picker is off,” you really need to figure out why you invite this kind of drama into your life and why you make such self destructive decisions... 1
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 7, 2019 Author Posted March 7, 2019 Kat, did you notice he never said he filed for divorce? What could he possibly need to meet you again for?... except to get you to sign up for being used, by him, a little longer!!!!! What are you doing? He’s offered nothing AGAIN!! Sheez, go ahead - go backwards. This douchebag is offering you to be his OW AGAIN. You going for that? Because that’s what he’s offering! How about this...get a back bone! Text him and tell him you don’t want to meet him . And that you need to see his wife - to tell her all about what a jerk her husband is. That’s the way to shut this down! You can't file for divorce in my jurisdiction without a separation of at least a year. After that you file for a decree nisi, then 3 months later the decree absolut. I'm not going backwards. I kept to NC. I haven't agreed to meet with him. But it did feel good to talk to him, and NOT in the way you're thinking. I had plenty to get out of my system and I did. I know myself. When I hold things in, it consumes me. I feel a lot better having gotten it out, not on text but verbally.
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 7, 2019 Author Posted March 7, 2019 No Kat, The reason you’ve been stuck is you keep believing a huge liar. Just stop being his fool. Why would you even bother talking to him? He isn’t offering you anything!!!!! You’re doing this to yourself because you keep communicating with him. Nothing has changed! He is still as selfish as he was 10 days ago! You are assuming I keep believing. I am in a different head space. The world kept spinning, the sun rose in the east, set in the west, I kept breathing and my world didn't come to an end. We all have our own ways of dealing with things. I had to be ready for NC. To have done it before I was ready would have been unbearable but I survived. Now I needed to unload and I did. Will I see him? I'll see how I feel. But even if I do, I can assure you I won't fall into his arms just because he pours on the charm. I have set boundaries and he knows what they are. Maybe I need to show him I can stick to those boundaries to regain respect, if only for myself. Everyone doubted I would go NC but I did. You all doubted my approach. I think based on the threads I've read I'm doing well. I'm not waiting years. I won't wait years. I am determined to end it with him unless and until he can commit. End of story.
Starswillshine Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 You can't file for divorce in my jurisdiction without a separation of at least a year. After that you file for a decree nisi, then 3 months later the decree absolut. I'm not going backwards. I kept to NC. I haven't agreed to meet with him. But it did feel good to talk to him, and NOT in the way you're thinking. I had plenty to get out of my system and I did. I know myself. When I hold things in, it consumes me. I feel a lot better having gotten it out, not on text but verbally. Do you know what NC stands for? Because no, you have not kept NC. At all. You have to start the process of divorce. And you have to file for legal separation. Stop making excuses for the man. It makes you sound pathetic. 1
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 7, 2019 Author Posted March 7, 2019 So what exactly is an acceptable exit plan to you? At this point I think you should accept no less than he's already moved out and filed for divorce. If getting his daughter therPy first is part of the plan then that's a joke. Its just another stall tactic that could drag on forever because therapy takes an undetermined amount of time to get results. You are being suckered again Filing for divorce takes at least a year of separation. Getting therapy is one thing, getting results is another. He needs to let his adult children learn to stand on their own 2 feet. I mollycoddled my own daughter to her detriment. The last couple of years I've backed off. She's made mistakes and learned from them such that she has become a responsible adult capable of dealing with her own issues and I'm proud of her. He needs to learn to do the same. What is an acceptable exit plan? Well for starters, he needs to actually think about what separation entails and looks like. Then he needs to have the conversation he started end of September but backed down from. And he actually needs to LEAVE. Beyond that, he needs to stay out and not go back because someone called to say they broke a nail.
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 7, 2019 Author Posted March 7, 2019 Do you know what NC stands for? Because no, you have not kept NC. At all. You have to start the process of divorce. And you have to file for legal separation. Stop making excuses for the man. It makes you sound pathetic. How many on here broke NC multiple times? I did 10 days and then answered my landline, which doesn't have call display and can't block numbers. I took the opportunity to rid myself of the toxic feelings that were building inside. If that makes me pathetic, then I guess that's what I am.
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 7, 2019 Author Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) Sex is off the table. I did without for 10 years so if I say it ain't happening, it ain't happening. End of ... Edited March 7, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Unnecessary quote
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 7, 2019 Author Posted March 7, 2019 My exact sentiments as well. Kat, he has had an exit plan... it was all BS. It will still be BS. I'm sure it sucked for him not to get your admiration these last 10 days. But he didn't ... She texted him one day in frustration that she was done with his absences and he pounced. This was just weeks after we started talking about him leaving. He didn't consider any of the logistics of what leaving entails. And he didn't consider that she would pull out the guilt and sympathy card to get him to stay. He was totally unprepared. So no, there was no plan. I kept asking if he was making any plans and got vague responses and that's when I started to apply the pressure. There was literally no time we spent together in the last 3 month, whether on the phone or in person where I didn't harangue him about the plan. Now he knows that unless he has a detailed plan, I won't be seeing or speaking to him. And if the plan is not well thought out and detailed, in my opinion, I walk.
BTDT2012 Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 He doesn't need a plan; he needs to leave if that is what he is going to do. Just tell his wife he has someone else and leave.
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 7, 2019 Author Posted March 7, 2019 Remember he has a marriage to protect. He probably spent 10 days worried you were going to get so mad you would spill the beans, he needs to suss out where you are at. OR he is just so certain of your "love" for him he knows he can talk you round... Seems he has already primed you with the "struggling daughter"... lest you get too carried away... Face it. A wife and an OW is perfect for him, anything else and he has more to lose than gain. If he wants to protect his marriage I'm not stopping him. I'm also not going to participate any longer in his shenanigans and lying and cheating. I have told him that. And I mean it. I have always been a person of integrity and strong morals. The guilt has consumed me the last few months. The first 6 months I wasn't thinking straight with everything that was going on. I had already told my ex that we were over and I was doing my own thing before the affair started so in my mind, I wasn't cheating even though he continued to live in the house (separate rooms for years before). I guess I went the AM route because I didn't want someone making demands for anything more than I was ready for. And the 6 months later it happened. MM decided he wanted us as a couple, got to the ledge, started to jump and pulled back. And I doubt he was concerned I would spill. That isn't my style.
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 7, 2019 Author Posted March 7, 2019 He doesn't need a plan; he needs to leave if that is what he is going to do. Just tell his wife he has someone else and leave. You don't just leave when you only have joint accounts, credit cards and no place to stay. Taking action to have individual accounts and a place to stay are part of the planning process. The other part is considering actions and reactions so he doesn't get sucked into staying again if leaving is truly his intent.
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 7, 2019 Author Posted March 7, 2019 LKK, i say this gently, but... there is NOTHING interesting about what he is doing. I have noticed in a few posts that you are finding it interesting that he is doing certain things. Honestly it isn't interesting. This is classic, textbook, MM behavior. It really is. You are an intelligent woman, read the stories on here. Even if your relationship did not start out as a "typical affair" it has now turned into one, complete with all of the plays being followed by the playbook. It has, that's all. All that is left is for you to accept it. Realize that if he is not man enough to chose the destiny that he wants for his life and then make it happen, that he is NOT a suitable partner for you. Do you REALLY want a man that is incapable of making choices in life and following through? Is that what you want for a long term partner? You have gone down the "easing out of this" path. Just get out. Tell him you will accept nothing less than signed divorce papers. Just read the stories on here, please... you are now in a 100% typical affair. Don't be, you deserve better. It may now be a typical affair but I agree I deserve better. I have not reconciled with him nor do I intend to unless and until I am satisfied he is leaving AND that his behaviour of the last few months is an aberration based on lack of preparedness and guilt and confusion. I do not want to face similar treatment as BS some time down the line. You and Artdeco were correct in your earlier posts that you need to clearly articulate boundaries. I was afraid it would push him away. I should have taken your advice.
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 7, 2019 Author Posted March 7, 2019 Highlighting to show who’s been given all the power in this situation. How, once again, are you making this a referendum on what HE wants to do with you? How little do you respect yourself? How could you look your daughter in the face and say, THIS is your new father figure to love and respect? Can’t you see that all he wants is what’s best for HIM? Truly sad. He’s setting you up to once again break a promise you made to yourself. Just magnifying the damage to all involved. Yup, you are correct. It has been all about him. I told him as much. That he got comfortable with both of us enabling him so in essence he had to do nothing. That he was being selfish and hadn't considered his impact on those around him and that I would no longer be complicit. That his ego was truly massive if he thought everyone's world would implode if he weren't in it.
Starswillshine Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 You don't just leave when you only have joint accounts, credit cards and no place to stay. Taking action to have individual accounts and a place to stay are part of the planning process. The other part is considering actions and reactions so he doesn't get sucked into staying again if leaving is truly his intent. I dont know about that. Motivated people can do just that. When xWH and I separated, it took less than a week to figure all that out. Granted we live in a large city and finding an apartment was surely no issue. Accounts were split the day after I told him he needed to leave. Everything else is just excuses. And lack of motivation.. 3
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 7, 2019 Author Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) LKK, it can be hard to just let it go, as everyone here knows. There is the threshold of pain that we who have made it through are encouraging you to meet. He is afraid of a true ending with me. His version: Although she had made some efforts towards him pre Hawaii, post Hawaii she has gone right back to treating him the way she had previously. The last 10 days he was reminded of why he wanted to leave in the first place and how much he wanted what we had. Fact or fiction? Only he knows for sure. Edited March 7, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
BTDT2012 Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 I have not reconciled with him nor do I intend to unless and until I am satisfied he is leaving AND that his behaviour of the last few months is an aberration based on lack of preparedness and guilt and confusion. I do not want to face similar treatment as BS some time down the line. Shouldn't that be until he has left and established his own residence? You are too old to be dealing with this nonsense. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Please stop prolonging your own agony. 1
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 7, 2019 Author Posted March 7, 2019 Shouldn't that be until he has left and established his own residence? You are too old to be dealing with this nonsense. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Please stop prolonging your own agony. Yes, you are correct - that he HAS left. Otherwise there is nothing to stop him from pushing it out for one reason or another. I challenged him that he's done nothing because he didn't have to. Because I actually made his marriage tolerable (assuming it was as lifeless and loveless as he portrayed) by filling all the voids. Upon reflection, he agreed and said he hadn't really considered it before. At least he was honest in that response.
Starswillshine Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 Yes, you are correct - that he HAS left. Otherwise there is nothing to stop him from pushing it out for one reason or another. I challenged him that he's done nothing because he didn't have to. Because I actually made his marriage tolerable (assuming it was as lifeless and loveless as he portrayed) by filling all the voids. Upon reflection, he agreed and said he hadn't really considered it before. At least he was honest in that response. Oh this guy! He and my xH should be best friends. Even the admitting to things... and sounding like they are "getting" it and maybe a little self reflection. I was cleaning out old messages today and came across sorta the same kind of things. "You are right." "Wow, I didnt make that connection before, I cant believe i didnt see it that way." "I'm such a a*******le." On and on and on. Hell, he did something similar just last week. And we are divorced and both moved on. They sure do know how to fake it. I get you, I understand why it is so hard to walk away. I get it. I truly do. It is so believable. And he will give you reasons that you can totally justify in your head. Ugh, I hate this man. Btw, my xWH's OW is still reeling 3 years later. And still tries to contact me trying to make sense of him. It will NEVER make sense. You'll only spend your sanity trying to figure it out. 2
mark clemson Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 Isn't this just a waste of time? I think you've lost respect for MM (rightfully) and clearly there's a lot of resentment/anger. So, how will you ever be able to LOVE him again? Even if he leaves his wife and comes to live with you it's a waste of time because you won't be able to love him. Are you hoping perhaps to rekindle what you had if he leaves her? I suspect the feelings won't return, even IF the conditions become right by him leaving her (and there's not a huge chance of that IMO). If you get what you think you want, you'll be stuck with him and with him will come guilt, resentment, mistrust, and a keen awareness of the aspects of his personality that have made the last several months so negative for you. Is that a relationship you really want to even be in? Look at it this way. He was a lifeboat during your extremely difficult divorce. Fair enough. But you don't LIVE in a lifeboat once you've made it to shore. Don't cling to the past. (Not THIS past, anyway.) Really think you should tell him to **** off and go full NC. Get a phone with a display for your landline. Then you can move on to better things. Better things than this guy and all the negative baggage that comes with him. I really think you aren't going to be able to love him again. So what's the point? Move on. My two cents. 6
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 7, 2019 Author Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) Isn't this just a waste of time? I think you've lost respect for MM (rightfully) and clearly there's a lot of resentment/anger. So, how will you ever be able to LOVE him again? Food for thought. I'm curious, why do you think I don't love him any longer? I will admit I haven't the respect for him I once did. The love? Not sure. Maybe that's subconsciously why I wonder if I should see him. Edited March 7, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
BaileyB Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 Food for thought. I'm curious, why do you think I don't love him any longer? I will admit I haven't the respect for him I once did. The love? Not sure. Oh Kat, what does this guy have to do to for you to finally decide he is not the love of your life and walk away...
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 7, 2019 Author Posted March 7, 2019 Oh Kat, what does this guy have to do to for you to finally decide he is not the love of your life and walk away... The truth is I've been so angry that I haven't thought about how I feel about him at this point in time. Mark made some comments that made me stop and think. I was merely wondering what led him to those conclusions.
BaileyB Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 The truth is I've been so angry that I haven't thought about how I feel about him at this point in time. Mark made some comments that made me stop and think. I was merely wondering what led him to those conclusions. Mark makes some very good points. At some point, it’s just too much water under the bridge. At some point, you have crossed a line and you can not go back. I thought you had crossed that line... I’m just really surprised to hear you say that you are not there yet. I like the analogy of the lifeboat. You don’t have to live in the lifeboat once you hit the shore. You should find yourself your own home, and go about creating a new life for yourself.
Vivir Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) Maybe I need to show him I can stick to those boundaries to regain respect, if only for myself. LKK, you hit the nail on the head with this statement. He may or may not respect you or the boundaries you set, but if *you* respect the boundaries you set, you will begin to regain your integrity and increase the dignity you feel you lost. Through your actions, he will learn soon enough (well, maybe not) that you're quite serious. I lost so much dignity by the end of my affair that retaking my boundaries was the only ounce I had left. My confidence and dignity and integrity grew from there. I also agree that we all have to do things in our own time, when we're ready, and that clarity to act usually won't come - not even a minute before then. So, Mark's words resonated with me, too. I made this realization for myself: there was too much water under the bridge, too much resentment to have a real relationship under the "right" and necessary circumstances. You may determine that this is the case for you, too, LKK. Edited March 7, 2019 by Vivir
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