Never thought I'd be an OW (long post)

[PhoenixRising8]

This is ripe. I’m sorry, but this man has an excuse for everything. He is now attempting to manipulate you into not dating/having sex with other men because he is “faithful” to you by not sleeping with his WIFE.

 

Does he think you just fell off the turnip truck yesterday?

 

Maybe he does.

[PhoenixRising8]

Kat, how old were you when you were last single? You went from marriage to MM... and it sounds that either it was an affair or you went from a relationship straight into your marriage due to the paternity issue.

 

I am sensing some major co-dependcy issues. You are holding onto MM because you are scared to be alone. You say you may be able to do it when your daughter comes home.... because you are going to depend on her to bring you joy and/or distractions.

 

You are going to keep wallowing in this hell and just get deeper still. Making it harder and harder.

 

I was with my ex for 30 years and MM for almost a year so it’s been a long time. And no, my ex wasn’t an affair. He actually was separated with his own apartment.

[Starswillshine]

I was with my ex for 30 years and MM for almost a year so it’s been a long time. And no, my ex wasn’t an affair. He actually was separated with his own apartment.

 

I didnt know the details of previousrelationship, only knowing your xH was not your daughter 's father. So didnt know if you had an affair which led to your daughter or your husband came in while pregnant. Sorry if you took it that way.

 

I was in a 20 year marriage. We had been together since I was 18. It is so hard to go from being a couple to not being one. Maybe you are putting so much into this because you really have never been alone. And I do, understand. Trust me, I get that. It IS hard.

 

But Kat think about how much energy you are spending worrying about him, trying to figure out when he is thinking, what he means, what his motives are, what is true, etc. Imagine what good you could do for yourself if you could focus that energy on something positive.

 

I had something horrible come up recently that left me extremely hurt and angry, but after realizing that I am just wasting so much time and energy and mental well being on it.... I just stopped. I just focus somewhere else.

 

Reinvest in your girlfriends. Take a solo trip to a wonderful destination (but if you do this, prepare for the down moments because they hit and they hit hard but it is good ultimately), learn a new skill or hobby.

 

Tell this man you are taking your power back. Dont allow him any access to you until you have seen the papers signed and filed with the courts. That he has at least taken a step towards divorce. And moved out of the house. If he loves you like he claims, he'll find you. And you will be in a much better place to have a healthier relationship with him... or anyone else. Of course, he really will need to do the same. He has a whole host of issues as well.

 

Go live your life Kat. Stopping wasting your energy on a man who isnt making you a priority.

[PhoenixRising8]

What has your counselor suggested you do/implement since October?

 

How many suggestions from the counselor have you done and how quickly did you do those suggestions?

 

Which suggestions have you put on the back burner?

 

First of all let me say I have seen this psychologist on and off for years and he has helped me each time which is why I go back to him. He knows my history and we have a relationship established.

 

So here’s what he said in October/November. With everything I told him, he thought there was a good probability that MM was genuine in his desire to leave based on his behaviour and the actions he took in telling BS and the kids he wanted to leave. He acknowledged that guilt and obligation could result much confusion and in one or more false starts with respect to leaving. He has counseled many men and seen this play out time and time again. He did it himself when he left his wife many years ago. He cautioned me it could take 6 months or longer. Once it got to 6 months, if he hasn’t followed through it becomes less likely he will. He will likely wait until one of either the BS or I take action. Since January we have been discussing timelines and why I am struggling to pull the trigger. He is encouraging me to set a firm date and stick with it. We are also discussing my attachment, abandonment and dependency issues.

[PhoenixRising8]

I didnt know the details of previousrelationship, only knowing your xH was not your daughter 's father. So didnt know if you had an affair which led to your daughter or your husband came in while pregnant. Sorry if you took it that way.

 

Reinvest in your girlfriends.

 

The ex had a vasectomy and tried to have it reversed unsuccessfully twice (he’s 18 years older). I didn’t intend to have kids but when my grandparents died I decided I wanted a family as I had none. He suggested artificial insemination and that’s the route we took. No affair. Joint decision. Unknown donor. She was his in every way but biologically.

 

Girlfriends? None. I’ve never had many friends being quite shy and introverted. The few I had he effectively isolated me from years ago. So here I am, maybe mid 50s and only my daughter. That’s it. I have extended family in Europe but that’s it.

[Starswillshine]

The ex had a vasectomy and tried to have it reversed unsuccessfully twice (he’s 18 years older). I didn’t intend to have kids but when my grandparents died I decided I wanted a family as I had none. He suggested artificial insemination and that’s the route we took. No affair. Joint decision. Unknown donor. She was his in every way but biologically.

 

Girlfriends? None. I’ve never had many friends being quite shy and introverted. The few I had he effectively isolated me from years ago. So here I am, maybe mid 50s and only my daughter. That’s it. I have extended family in Europe but that’s it.

 

Gotcha! Understood now!

 

You can meet new people. Look up divorce support groups in your area. There are some websites that arrange meet ups for various groups at various age groups. I did this after my divorce since all my friends are married. It was a great way to meet people. I'm a bit introverted and shy myself, especially in groups. But it was a good way to get beyond that. To get out of comfort zone. If I made a fool of myself, I never had to see those people again. It was easy. I'm in a town 12 hours away from any family, so I get how hard that is. But I think you could take this opportunity and do something amazing vs waiting on this weak man.

[PhoenixRising8]

I see. Thanks for the info. That clarifies some things... and I can see you have an attachment to the MM for a variety of reasons - your reasons... based on your assigned meaning ( the meaning you assigned to certain behaviors).

 

How do you view your attachments, abandonment and dependency issues? Have you read the book “Codependant no more”? By Melody Beattie?

 

What was time timeline suggested for the end date? How do you feel about that now?

 

MM and I will have been together a year end of March and the 6 month mark of the drama is coming up so that’s what I’m trying to figure out.

 

Today is not a good day. I feel like such an abject failure on a personal level. Professionally I’ve been very successful; personally, not so much. I’ve started to read this thread from the beginning and I doubt it’s helping.

 

And no I haven’t read the book.

Edited February 21, 2019 by LilKatKat

[Starswillshine]

MM and I will have been together a year end of March and the 6 month mark of the drama is coming up so that’s what I’m trying to figure out.

 

Today is not a good day. I feel like such an abject failure on a personal level. Professionally I’ve been very successful; personally, not so much. I’ve started to read this thread from the beginning and I doubt it’s helping.

 

And no I haven’t read the book.

 

You are NOT a failure. You are at a point of change. This can be good. And this can be a positive thing. Getting to the other side of this will be so incredibly empowering. Staying with a man who treats you like a side piece will continue to make you feel worthless and like a failure. He isnt good for your self esteem. Get your power back. All of it. Trust me.... being able to survive it is one of the most empowering things. You'll feel like you can overcome anything.

[sandylee1]

Your Ex was very nasty to reveal he wasn't your daughters biological father, given that you went the A.I route to conceive and it was a joint decision.

 

He's 18 years older than you (he should have been joyous he got a younger wife) and has lost the relationship he had with your daughter now.

 

Perhaps his only saving grace is other children he may have from his previous marriage, otherwise being old with no family can be a miserable existence.

 

Many couples who conceive this way, never tell their child.

[anika99]

First of all let me say I have seen this psychologist on and off for years and he has helped me each time which is why I go back to him. He knows my history and we have a relationship established.

 

So here’s what he said in October/November. With everything I told him, he thought there was a good probability that MM was genuine in his desire to leave based on his behaviour and the actions he took in telling BS and the kids he wanted to leave. He acknowledged that guilt and obligation could result much confusion and in one or more false starts with respect to leaving. He has counseled many men and seen this play out time and time again. He did it himself when he left his wife many years ago. He cautioned me it could take 6 months or longer. Once it got to 6 months, if he hasn’t followed through it becomes less likely he will. He will likely wait until one of either the BS or I take action. Since January we have been discussing timelines and why I am struggling to pull the trigger. He is encouraging me to set a firm date and stick with it. We are also discussing my attachment, abandonment and dependency issues.

 

I see this as problematic. First of all you shouldn't even know that your therapist left his own wife. That's unprofessional. Secondly it seems that your therapist is biased and empathizes more with the MM than he does you. By telling you it would take 6 months he basically led you to believe that waiting 6 months was acceptable which is all well and good for your MM but horrible for you because every month this goes on the more painful it becomes. I feel like if your therapist had your best interests at heart he would have counseled you differently. Yes I know therapists can't tell their patients what to do but that doesn't mean they can't be honest and give the advice that best serves their patient.

[PhoenixRising8]

Your Ex was very nasty to reveal he wasn't your daughters biological father, given that you went the A.I route to conceive and it was a joint decision.

 

He's 18 years older than you (he should have been joyous he got a younger wife) and has lost the relationship he had with your daughter now.

 

Perhaps his only saving grace is other children he may have from his previous marriage, otherwise being old with no family can be a miserable existence.

 

Many couples who conceive this way, never tell their child.

 

We could never agree on whether to tell her so we didn't. He only ever alluded to it when he was angry with me. Even now he denies he told her which I suppose technically he didn't. He dropped enough hints to her during our fight when she came in and told him to stop being verbally abusive to me. That's when he started his hint dropping and told her to ask me. I told him I didn't know what was in his head so I'm not going to say anything. He'd done this before. She first asked if she was adopted and I said no and I have the pictures to prove it. Then she asked me if she is a "sperm bank baby". No idea how that sprung to her mind. I could lie and give him another way to hurt me and her by telling her I lied to her or tell her the truth. I chose the truth in that moment. It was not our finest hour. I will always regret and feel responsible and guilty for what this did to her. I will always regret not leaving him before he caused major emotional damage. That's something I have to live with forever.

[PhoenixRising8]

What did the therapist advise you do after six months was up and he hadn’t left his wife?

 

I have to decide if I stay or leave because if he hasn't left, he either isn't going to or is waiting for one of us to make it easy for him.

[elaine567]

Like giving birth, progress is important in a relationship.

The time scale can be fast or slow, there can be a bit of back and forth but as long as progress forward is seen, then all is fine.

What progress has their been in your relationship with this man?

[PhoenixRising8]

Looks like you decided several months ago.

 

You can always decide something new...something that brings a new result.

 

Leaving things the same gives you the same result.

 

In order to invoke changes you must change things yourself.

 

I did decide. I decided I was not going to wait around forever. I've been telling him that since December 27. March 22 is one year. My daughter is returning April so I'm thinking April is my drop dead. I've been slowly coming to terms with ending it but it hasn't been easy. The truth is that it's harder to end it than I can explain so I have been talking myself into it.

 

I know what he is doing to both BS and me is not good. I know everyone says he's a terrible person for doing what he's doing. But I have spent a lot of time with him the last 11 months so I actually know him. The person I know is sweet and gentle. Too much so. And conflict avoidant. So in trying to be gentle and not upset the apple cart he's going about things the wrong way. Yeah, I know ... maybe I'm being naive.

 

He actually said tonight that he now thinks that Hawaii may not have been such a good idea. He really believed she would come to the conclusion that there was nothing left between them. He knows if this goes on too much longer, given she tried to break into his phone, she's looking for evidence and if and when she finds it, he will be the bad guy and he doesn't want to be the bad guy. He would rather just deal with it without putting me In the position of being the home wrecker because if they had been solid, there would not have been an "us". Maybe I'm projecting but that's how I felt when I sought out an affair. There was no home to wreck because it already was. 10 years without a connection or intimacy. That's not a marriage... it's a platonic roommate situation called a marriage by virtue of a piece of paper only.

 

Apparently Dick and Jane's daughter is getting married in June and they're supposed to fly out for the wedding. I told him if they go to the wedding together, they will be staying together and I will be gone. I was very clear I don't have a lot left in me in terms of time. A month, maybe two if he's taken steps. No ultimatums, just a promise that I will walk away in the not too distant future because I am done enabling him to stay while she enables him from her end. He was adamant that he wants me and us, not as affair partners but as life partners. I told him I would believe it when I see it but I won't be holding my breathe.

 

So there's my timeline. As I said, it will be easier when my daughter is back so that falls in line with the one year anniversary. That will also have given him about 6 months to poop or get off the pot.

[darkbloom]

I would advise to stop talking to him until he decides. Giving him a deadline is like slowly ripping the bandaid off. You’re also going to try to talk yourself out of it and find reasons to stay.

[PhoenixRising8]

I would advise to stop talking to him until he decides. Giving him a deadline is like slowly ripping the bandaid off. You’re also going to try to talk yourself out of it and find reasons to stay.

 

I'm not trying to find reasons to stay. If anything, I am looking at all the reasons to go. That has been my focus since my trip in late December and continues to this very moment. As I said in a previous post, I went through the sadness, then the anger, analysis and now I'm becoming more apathetic. That is my pattern when I'm just about done. Happened with the ex, happening again. Only thing that stops that train is if he were to actually take action. Besides, there's something somewhat ironic and satisfying about waiting for the one year anniversary.

[anika99]

He actually said tonight that he now thinks that Hawaii may not have been such a good idea. He really believed she would come to the conclusion that there was nothing left between them

 

Oh please. He never ever thought going to Hawaii was going to make his wife end the marriage. He just really wanted to go to Hawaii and so gave you that ridiculous reason. On top of everything else he thinks your dumb.

 

I'm confused. You're going to end the affair in April when you have your daughter for support? But you're not going to stick around if he goes to a wedding with his wife in June? Holy cow! Now you can't stick to a timeline within the time it takes to write a post.

 

You must be looking for reasons to stay because you couldn't possibly be looking for reasons to go. You already have plenty of reasons to go. Anyways it sounds like your going to be a longterm OW. Now you have told him your new line in the sand is the wedding in June. Not even that he has to leave his wife by June, just that he better not go to that wedding because boy oh boy, if he does then you will be really mad! Lol....he is losing zero minutes of sleep over this. He knows you aren't going anywhere.

[elaine567]

Ok so he doesn't want to be "the bad guy" by walking out of his marriage, but even if she kicks him out for his cheating, (I can see no other reason she would do so), he is still going to be the bad guy.

He is the one that wants out, the one that wants to break up the marriage, he doesn't get to play "the good guy"... that is impossible.

 

I think the Hawaii trip was good for him in two ways, a) it showed him you would put up with almost anything and still stick around.

b) He is the wonderful husband who took his wife on a great holiday ie he is the "good guy". Brownie points.

 

NO wife would think that being taken to Hawaii signified the end of their marriage, even if things didn't go well on the trip, the fact they were spending oodles of cash trying to make things work would give her hope.

 

The best solution to the problem is that he carries on in his marriage and you accept the OW role. That way he remains "the good guy" to his friends and family.

He knows that.

I guess he is hoping he can string it out with you for as long as possible.

 

June - He HAS to go to this wedding, he has no other option in reality. Dick is his boss and best friend. Anika is correct he will lose zero sleep over you getting all "mad" about it...

[PhoenixRising8]

He’s essentially told you he’s not going to be the bad guy. You know what that means.

 

He’s telling you to expect another trip away in June - he’s prepping you. You know what that means.

 

You stated your deadline for April but then stated expecting to be around in June (when he’s expected to travel again)... I’m confused - which deadline is it?

 

He obviously expects you to be around in June when he takes off again with his wife - otherwise he wouldn’t have the need for you to know about his trip.

 

He is nice and comfortable with all of this crap.

 

Why don’t YOU stop having sex with him? That is something you CAN do.

 

 

Does your daughter know you’re seeing a married man?

 

Being the bad guy: the context was he has to do something sooner rather than later because she's looking for proof and if she finds it, he'll be the bad guy which doesn't serve either of us well.

 

June trip: that came out as a result of my asking if he was planning any more trips so he told me about the wedding to which I responded if he goes it means we aren't together any longer. I was clear that I wasn't waiting until then for him to get off the pot. We will either be together in which case he won't be going with her or if he does, it means one of us has ended this.

 

Deadline: it is definitely April. Possibly sooner. Like our anniversary which would be rather poetic. I've been planning and thinking March 22 for weeks now. Imagine he plans to celebrate an anniversary (which he's already talking about) and I end it. Won't see it coming.

 

Comfortable : I can't argue. If it were that uncomfortable, he would take action. At some point it may become uncomfortable, but how long will it take and at what cost to me?

 

Sex: do you think that will make him do anything? It isn't like we hop into bed every time. Mostly we don't.

 

Does my daughter know - yes she has met him and knows he "wants to leave". She has her doubts he will leave as do I, which I didn't initially.

[PhoenixRising8]

Oh please. He never ever thought going to Hawaii was going to make his wife end the marriage. He just really wanted to go to Hawaii and so gave you that ridiculous reason. On top of everything else he thinks your dumb.

 

I'm confused. You're going to end the affair in April when you have your daughter for support? But you're not going to stick around if he goes to a wedding with his wife in June? Holy cow! Now you can't stick to a timeline within the time it takes to write a post.

 

You must be looking for reasons to stay because you couldn't possibly be looking for reasons to go. You already have plenty of reasons to go. Anyways it sounds like your going to be a longterm OW. Now you have told him your new line in the sand is the wedding in June. Not even that he has to leave his wife by June, just that he better not go to that wedding because boy oh boy, if he does then you will be really mad! Lol....he is losing zero minutes of sleep over this. He knows you aren't going anywhere.

 

Maybe I am dumb to believe it but in his twisted logic he actually believed she would see there was nothing left of their marriage but the piece of paper it's written on. The fact he now admits it wasn't such a good idea speak to that.

 

I already clarified the my timeline in my previous post.

 

I will not be a long term OW. I want to live a full life, not a half life being at someone's beck and call, spending holidays and special occasions alone and having no one to travel with and do things with at a time of my choosing rather than just his convenience.

 

So yes, I am looking for reasons to go and focusing on those to push to the background my feelings for him.

[PhoenixRising8]

I think the Hawaii trip was good for him in two ways, a) it showed him you would put up with almost anything and still stick around.

b) He is the wonderful husband who took his wife on a great holiday ie he is the "good guy". Brownie points.

 

 

He won't be the bad guy if she has no proof. Right, wrong or indifferent, it's what he thinks.

 

I agree no woman would think that spending oodles on a trip means anything other than he's trying and a willing participant. He didn't see it that way but now does apparently. Maybe he is trying. Who knows what's in his mind but I'm not focusing on his mind. Since I went away, I've been focusing on what's in my own mind. That is now my priority.

 

He can't carry on the double life and continue to be the good guy for too much longer. He's been too indiscreet.

 

No, I don't accept my role as OW. Maybe for a few more weeks but definitely not long term.

 

Yes, he has to go to the wedding, but not with her. Unless of course they are still together, which undoubtedly they will be.

Edited February 23, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[sagamore]

He doesn’t want to be the bad guy. Finally, an honest statement! But guess what? If he leaves, he’s the bad guy. And what happens WHEN she finds out about you after he leaves? You don’t think she can put two and two together? She will barrage him with calls and texts and unhappiness. And do you REALLY think this weak-a** man-child can withstand that? He’ll take it out on YOU and return home.

 

For a smart woman, LKK, you don’t seem to have given a moment’s thought to what happens after he leaves and how implausible it is that it all works out.

 

Here’s what you should do between now and April (your next fake deadline, because after January I refuse to believe you - sorry for the tough love but it’s true):

 

1. Get a new, professional therapist who doesn’t cross boundaries by telling YOU about his love life (yes, yes, I know you like him and you’re used to him - but I think we’ve proven that your “picker” is seriously off). This idiot is enabling your bad decisions. Dump him. Next:

 

2. Get on meetup.com or go to some local events and MAKE SOME FRIENDS. Doesn’t matter if it feels forced or they aren’t best friends for the long term. Just make some friends you can actually go out with so that your WHOLE SOCIAL LIFE doesn’t revolve around this man. And then:

 

3. Spend some time thinking - really thinking - about what kind of example you are setting for your daughter. And what kind of man she deserves in her life as a surrogate father-figure. Honestly, you are failing her as well as yourself right now with your low self-esteem and lack of boundaries. She just had her world blown up. She should not be Mommy’s support system for getting out of an affair. There aren’t enough head-smacking smilies in the world for this!

 

Toughen up, LKK. You have work in front of you. But you can do it.

[elaine567]

He won't be the bad guy if she has no proof. Right, wrong or indifferent, it's what he thinks.

 

But the minute he shows up with you then he is going to be the bad guy... 2+2 =4.

People are not stupid, it is not possible to magic up a "serious" new life partner out of thin air...

How long would he need to keep hiding you?

Edited February 23, 2019 by elaine567

[BaileyB]

I really love the fact that he has been carrying on an affair behind his wife’s back for almost a year now and he still doesn’t see himself as “the bad guy.” There is absolutely no guilt, remorse, responsibility, or accountability in that statement.

 

The fact that he waits for her to make a decision about the marriage and will not speak his truth because he doesn’t want to be perceived as the bad guy shows just how conflict avoidant and spineless he really is...

 

The other thing his comment makes me think, if he does not want to be perceived as “the bad guy,” that means when this all comes out somebody will have to take the blame - and it’s going to have to be you Kat.

 

Sagamore gave you some good advice earlier. Read it again, and take it.

[PhoenixRising8]

KitKat,

 

Your therapist... I agree, get a new one. One that will encourage you to take action for YOUR best interest in lots of matters in your life. Maybe new changes could take place for a lot of areas in your life. Change is good! This is the therapist that took your money for years and listened while you stayed in that marriage.

 

I'm not going to make excuses for my therapist but the truth is, until last year I never let on how unhappy I was in my marriage. I did a lot of pretending that all was good so in his defence, he didn't counsel me because I said nothing. That is my fault.

 

As for the dating site while married, I felt it was hypocritical of me to hold that against him given i did the exact same thing. Now I realize our motivation was likely very different.

 

As for taking action, I am convinced, especially after this morning that I will have to be the one. He is tip toeing around her more since the phone incident while dictating to me, rather than discussing. Huge red flag. So no, may have been fooling me but no longer.

Edited February 23, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator