Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 5, 2019 Author Posted February 5, 2019 My hope is that YOU get strong enough to end it for yourself...for YOUR future! No photos doesn’t signify much. In fact I had a really nice dinner last night with my kids for a birthday - I fully intended ahead of time to take photos while we were all together - I was enjoying it so much I forgot to get my phone out! When I got home I was kicking myself! Do it for YOU KitKat. You deserve better than anyone yanking your chain. May be no significance to no posts but it does seem odd given she posts vacations and special occasions regularly. Her vacation in August was full of posts and pictures. She posted pictures of their last trip to Hawaii more than 3 years ago (after which he moved out of the bedroom apparently) so it just seems odd that this time there is nothing. I am working on closing this chapter. Yesterday I cancelled the cruise we had booked for later this year. Yes, we had a 2 week cruise booked. He doesn’t know I cancelled it. I see that as a step towards ending it. And I did it. 1
Starswillshine Posted February 6, 2019 Posted February 6, 2019 May be no significance to no posts but it does seem odd given she posts vacations and special occasions regularly. Her vacation in August was full of posts and pictures. She posted pictures of their last trip to Hawaii more than 3 years ago (after which he moved out of the bedroom apparently) so it just seems odd that this time there is nothing. I am working on closing this chapter. Yesterday I cancelled the cruise we had booked for later this year. Yes, we had a 2 week cruise booked. He doesn’t know I cancelled it. I see that as a step towards ending it. And I did it. The fact that you are checking her Facebook tells you are still hoping. That you are reading into it is showing that you are still hoping. You want to verify what he says. To see if he is a liar. Except... except.... he IS a liar and you know it. So ok, he FINALLY gets the balls to leave his wife. What then? How will you feel? 5 years down the road? Trust me... you will spend your life wondering if he is now lying to you. So be careful with that. Who knows why she has or hasn't posted anything. You never could know. You can only speculate. And it may or may not be truth. We all do it. I've done it, too. Trying to read into every detail.trying to figure out what is going on. No relationship should ever be like this. 2
BaileyB Posted February 6, 2019 Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) Oh, I agree... you are still hoping... You are still hoping because if you weren’t, you wouldn’t be answering his calls. You wouldn’t be an interested listener when he tells you that he has not had any physical contact with his wife during their holiday. You also wouldn’t be stalking is wife’s social media. I mean, who takes a call from their “(ex)boyfriend” when he is on holiday with his wife? Who even has the audacity to make that call... I think you keep contact in part because of your ego. I think a part of you enjoys hearing him tell you that he misses you and that he wants you... You do have the upper hand now, you have the control when previously he has had all the control, and that feels good. I think you are also still in contact because you want to know what is happening between these two... you want to know how things are going, you want to know if life is not good for him, and you want to know if/when they start to wind down because you potentially want to be available to swoop in if/when they do decide to separate. I say this because I have a friend who leads a very interesting life filled with drama. It’s not healthy for me, to be dragged into her drama... but, it took me a while to go NC. I didn’t want to completely walk away and end all contact because - then I wouldn’t know what was happening in her life! There is a part of me that is interested in seeing how this never ending drama turns out... You say that you don’t want to go NC because you will always wonder what might have happened. Well, as starswillshine says, imagine that he does leave his wife and you win your man — are you ready to wonder every day for the rest of your life if he will go back to his wife, or if he has another woman on the side when he is a little late getting home... You need to cut contact with this man - he is NOT WORTH IT! But, you are not ready to do that yet... so, you will continue to pick at the scab, again and again, for as long as you need... Edited February 6, 2019 by BaileyB 1
elaine567 Posted February 6, 2019 Posted February 6, 2019 I think you keep contact in part because of your ego. I think a part of you enjoys hearing him tell you that he misses you and that he wants you... You do have the upper hand now, you have the control when previously he has had all the control, and that feels good. Yes it is ego and the competitive spirit. Winning is important. The wife cannot be seen to win. But control I do not think so. What is really different here than any of the other OWs sitting at home alone whilst their MM wines and dines, celebrates and parties and goes on holiday with his wife? His life continues on regardless whilst the OW ties herself in knots trying to be understanding, trying not to mind, trying to keep up the hope that it is all worth it... It is par for the course. It is still fairly new for Lilkat so he still needs to wrap it up in fancy words and promises, 2 years down the line he won't bother... he will go on holiday and Lilkat will just be expected to be happy about it... There has been a shift here. I believe Lilkat despite the protestations is starting to accept the role of the OW. 1
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 6, 2019 Author Posted February 6, 2019 Bailey and Elaine: Thank you for your perspective. Please allow me to enlighten you on what I am actually thinking and feeling. Taking his calls has nothing to do with stroking my own ego. In fact, it is bringing me to the realization that in the last few months, something has changed. I am fairly confident he didn’t tell his wife and kids he wanted to leave the marriage just to be a prick. At that time, I believe he did want to. But over time he realized she would put up with his shenanigans and obviously I did also, in the hope he would finally summon the courage. Now when he’s with me it’s great and when he’s with her, she’s more attentive and it obviously isn’t so bad so why change anything. I had to come to this conclusion to be able to detach and let go. Had I not gone through this process, I would have always wondered “what if?” I am not stalking her Facebook to see how things are. I am trying to determine what he’s lying about. In the almost year we’ve known each other, I haven’t caught him in one single lie. He is either being really honest or he is extremely accomplished but lies eventually are outed so he may have been more honest than I give him credit for. I am not trying to win anything at this point. I don’t even know if I did win that I would win anything worthwhile. Ive acknowledged before that I can’t compete against 30 years of history, marriage certificate, finances, kids and the optics of upstanding family man, although I think the latter is not what it was as she has told many friends about his behaviour and her suspicions. She has to do nothing to keep him when he isn’t making a move. So I’m not stupid and I haven’t buried my head in the sand. I know the score. As for accepting my role as the OW, no I am not. In the first 7 or 8 months I did not feel like the OW, unless the O stood for only. That isn’t the case since mid November. I don’t want and won’t accept holidays, special occasions and vacation alone. But I loved him like no one ever, I still do. So I had to come to the acceptance phase of reality so that I didn’t regret and wonder if I pulled the plug without giving him a chance. And that’s where I am. I gave it a chance. When he returns I will tell him we are over. One of 3 things will happen. He will return home and accept his marriage as is or maybe he will recommit, who knows. Or he will go back and eventually seek out a new AP. Or he will realize he made a mistake letting us go. I’m not anticipating the third possibility, not in the least. So thanks for your analysis but you’ve drawn the wrong conclusions.
Starswillshine Posted February 6, 2019 Posted February 6, 2019 Kat, you have actually reconfirmed the analysis. You just packaged it differently. 1
Starswillshine Posted February 6, 2019 Posted February 6, 2019 Also to add... You said you havent found one lie? Are you kidding? Does he tell his wife when he visits you? Or that he called you on their vacation and tells you that he loves you? Wait... that he is on this vacation in itself is a lie as he told you he was leaving. He lies, you just justify them. One day you'll be completely free of this situation and you'll realize all the mental gymnastics you have done. It isnt a judgement. I have done the same. And it isnt about morality or anything else... it should be about self preservation. 1
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 6, 2019 Author Posted February 6, 2019 Kat, you have actually reconfirmed the analysis. You just packaged it differently. The implication was that I am trying to find ways and rationale to stay and that isn’t the case.
Aloha123 Posted February 6, 2019 Posted February 6, 2019 Wow I had been following this thread for the past month or so but never went back and read it from the beginning. Having just done so, I do feel compelled to commend you for the great progress you have made over the past 6 months, particularly since January. And you had quite a lot of progress to make seeing as you literally thought that you would end up together as recently as when you started this thread. I think the progress you have made is actually a great testament to how powerful this forum is in snapping us OW out of our delusional thinking. I also am in the minority here in being of the opinion that LC (and engaging in heightened "awareness" and critical thinking) is certainly better than the alternative if you don't feel you have it in you to do NC yet, and may be an important first step. Two steps up one step back, progress not perfection, those are all a normal part of trying to break an addiction. That being said, I can't help but think that you are still too invested in trying to figure out where his head is at, how the vacation is going, what signs indicate that he is still into you, what he's doing, what his WIFE is doing etc. Ultimately, you will not heal until you step away from that, and realize that even under a best case scenario all he is trying to do is maintain or get things back to the status quo (as one of the prior posters so brilliantly pointed out). Man, if there is one thing my MM ever did right, it is in not misleading me to ever think that he would leave his wife. It's painful enough as it is! I honestly can't even imagine how much more despondent I would be at this point if that had been the case. For instance, by this point I have lived through (and followed closely along on facebook) at least a dozen vacations he has happily taken with his wife, and have, for better or worse, developed a thicker skin (at a heavy price to my self-esteem). So I do give you credit for not accepting the crumbs and playing second fiddle to a happy marriage, not tolerating being put on the backburner, etc., nearly as much as I have.
BaileyB Posted February 6, 2019 Posted February 6, 2019 The implication was that I am trying to find ways and rationale to stay and that isn’t the case. If that wasn’t the case, you would end all contact. As Aloha says, you are still way too invested in this man and what’s happening with his marriage. When you are really done with this affair and ready to let him go, you will get to a place of indifference. You are not there yet. You will continue to answer his calls and check the social media until you get there... I do believe you will get there, but you are not done yet. 1
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 7, 2019 Author Posted February 7, 2019 I know my heart is invested still which is why my head is constantly looking for affirmation it is right hence the LC vs NC. I'd rather do LC than threaten NC and not follow through. That would be worse. I am slowly working through it. My head is slowly winning but it is a process. It isn't that he's pulling away. Far from it. It's me looking for reasons to do so. I will admit he isn't making it easy calling from Hawaii. Today he said he wants us to go out for dinner on the 14th. Yes, the 14th! No idea how he expects to accomplish that but I suppose if he can ditch her on her birthday, anything is possible. I really don't know which of us is the bigger fool: the BS for putting up with his shenanigans or me for not getting over him given his seeming indecision. There is a part of me that wonders still why you tell your wife and kids you want out of your marriage if you don't. Then you don't because of guilt and obligation and let's face it, it's easier to stay, even if you are unhappy. My head says it doesn't matter the reason because if he hasn't, the reason doesn't matter and in the process he is being cruel to 2 women. So yes, this is what I am trying to focus on. All the negatives. It's the only way I will convince my heart and create a softer landing. I don't want to be in pain so I'm trying to detach using every piece of information I can get. It's working, maybe not as fast as I'd like but I am getting there. This vacation is definitely accelerating the process.
BaileyB Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 I know my heart is invested still which is why my head is constantly looking for affirmation it is right hence the LC vs NC. I'd rather do LC than threaten NC and not follow through. I understand it’s a process. I also understand that this is just more justification for why you maintain contact... even if you are not ready to accept and admit that fully. This guy has balls - he leaves to go on a vacation with his family and expects to get together with you upon his return, on Valentine’s Day. That takes nerve. I wonder when I read your posts, where is your anger? I know you say that you have been angry with him, but seriously... if a man did this to me, I don’t care who he is or how much I once loved him, I would be tempted to do serious bodily injury... (metaphorically speaking, of course). You still put up with such crap from this man, and I wonder why you allow this. The only possible answer is that you are still hanging on, hoping that he will come to his senses and pick you. The thing is, I don’t know that there is any such thing as a “soft landing” in this kind of situation... at a certain point, you will need to quit fooling yourself and just rip the bandaid off... 1
mark clemson Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 You should tell him you have a date on vday. Don’t give him ANY other info except to decline dinner and to tell him you have a date. He’s got some nerve asking you like that while he’s in Hawaii on vacation with his wife! Tell him not to call you until his divorce is final... he is gonna strong you along as long as you allow it - it feeds his ego - which is what he wants. Yes. Of course. Lies and manipulation to counter the lies and manipulation. It all makes so much sense... I suppose it WOULD stick it to him, though. There will come a day when you can just move on. You can rest assured. Look forward to it!
BTDT2012 Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 I agree with those who say you are too invested in figuring out what he is doing and what is means. Acknowledge the fact that you are still harboring a kernel of hope that he will come back to you. That's the real reason that you haven't slammed the door shut. 1
elaine567 Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 I wonder when I read your posts, where is your anger? I know you say that you have been angry with him, but seriously... if a man did this to me, I don’t care who he is or how much I once loved him, I would be tempted to do serious bodily injury... (metaphorically speaking, of course). You still put up with such crap from this man, and I wonder why you allow this. Living with a narcissist no doubt took its toll. What is considered unacceptable to normal people is tolerated. It is a feat of endurance living with a narcissist. Normal emotional reflexes and reactions are curbed and damped down and rationalised in order to survive. It is no surprise many OW put up with dreadful nonsense from MM as they have already been primed by past experiences. The MM just provides a level of drama and "abuse" that feels comfortable and "normal" to them...
anika99 Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 This is your golden opportunity to end it now and walk away. It's not going to be easier once he is back and you have seen him. Right now you already have a tiny headstart on finding your way out of this because you haven't had any face to face contact with him for awhile. The moment you see him you will right back where you started. The only reason you haven't ended it is because you are holding out hope. You still think that maybe he really is going to leave her when be gets home, just like he says he will. 3
elaine567 Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 ...The moment you see him you will right back where you started. The only reason you haven't ended it is because you are holding out hope. You still think that maybe he really is going to leave her when be gets home, just like he says he will. Agree 100% Hawaii was a definite dealbreaker, now it is all about wait and see what happens... 1
Vivir Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 It is still fairly new for Lilkat so he still needs to wrap it up in fancy words and promises, 2 years down the line he won't bother... he will go on holiday and Lilkat will just be expected to be happy about it... Anika, in the above post, and Elaine, quoted above, are spot on, in my opinion. I am one of the ones that found myself two years down the line when the MM didn't bother to dress anything up... it was his birthday and wedding anniversary in the same week and he disappeared from my life to celebrate with his wife. I didn't factor at all. And that was fine... ...because it was during this time of disappearance - two full years in - that I finally made the choice that I was finished. I had been talking about how badly it all hurt up to that point, but when I made the choice, I didn't say a word. I let him disappear. I didn't chase. When he came back around, as they all seemingly tend to do, he found that door closed with no answer. Above, Mark Clemson says that the day WILL come. It may take two years (you shouldn't let it though), but the day you feel indifferent WILL come. How much pain are you willing to endure in the meantime, I suppose, is the question? (Don't be like me.) 1
Aloha123 Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 I know my heart is invested still which is why my head is constantly looking for affirmation it is right hence the LC vs NC. I'd rather do LC than threaten NC and not follow through. That would be worse. I am slowly working through it. My head is slowly winning but it is a process. It isn't that he's pulling away. Far from it. It's me looking for reasons to do so. . One of the best pieces of advice on here I've ever read is to let your head guide your way and the heart will eventually follow. Of course, I have yet to successfully follow that edict myself, but it's still great advice! One other point though, your heart is actually what feels the pain, guilt, jealousy, dissatisfaction, frustration,, etc., so to a certain extent it actually can be a helpful guide as well.
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 7, 2019 Author Posted February 7, 2019 Well I just got a weird text ... “hey darling please note my phone will not be safe for a while. Will message you later. “. Never had that before.
Artdeco Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 Well I just got a weird text ... “hey darling please note my phone will not be safe for a while. Will message you later. “. Never had that before. Text him. His wife’s probably using it. 2
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 7, 2019 Author Posted February 7, 2019 Text him. His wife’s probably using it. Even though he said not to? He never lets her use his phone. I’m betting I know exactly what’s going on.
Artdeco Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 Even though he said not to? He never lets her use his phone. I’m betting I know exactly what’s going on. Well, he went to Hawaii. Going on a vacation with his wife even though YOU told him not to is worse than an “accidental” text. Oops. Her battery might be dead and she has no charger, they might be doing a day trip away from the hotel or something.
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 7, 2019 Author Posted February 7, 2019 Well, he went to Hawaii. Going on a vacation with his wife even though YOU told him not to is worse than an “accidental” text. Oops. Her battery might be dead and she has no charger, they might be doing a day trip away from the hotel or something. I doubt it’s that simple. He has refused to give her his phone in the past and it’s password protected. The only way she gets in is by him giving her the password. I’m thinking it’s more deliberate than that. If it’s deliberate then they are having a discussion that should have happened ages ago and if he’s sharing but still hiding, I can only imagine what that means. I sure hope he deleted FTime, iMessage and call logs as well as my contact numbers, pictures etc. because I sure as hell don’t want her having that.
Artdeco Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 Well, you have wanted to detach from him anyways. So if this is what’s happening, then your affair will be over sooner rather than later. Kind of like ripping off the band aid, rather than going LC and slowly transitioning into NC. Maybe it’s a godsend. You’ll get through this. Keep us posted.
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