Never thought I'd be an OW (long post)

[PhoenixRising8]

You seriously want this very consistent liar and cheater?

 

You now know who he is and what he does... you want that for yourself?

 

By all accounts this is not who he has been for 50+ years. Neither was I. Sometimes bad situations lead good people astray, like they did me. Maybe it’s true for him, maybe not. IF and WHEN he is free and I am unattached, IF he proves himself, assuming he has any interest at that point ...

 

That’s a lot of time and a lot of ifs.

[Snipercatt]

By what you’ve posted, Tom is incredibly self-absorbed. Even in this last communication it is evident.

 

Rather than be honest and say he wants to leave, and wants to renpvate the marital home in preparation for leaving, he is so obsessed with his own comfort level he will mislead his wife until right before he leaves. He can expect such treatment, of another, to end up costing him dearly.

 

That you would consider being with someone who intentionally does such a thing speaks to your own emotional intelligence.

[PhoenixRising8]

He doesn’t believe, with good reason, that she would want him being there for extended periods to do Renos. She’already told him first go around that if he’s leaving, he’s leaving immediately.

 

Thanks for assessing my EQ.

[Snipercatt]

It is human nature to make excuses for self absorbed behavior. He can be honest with her, take the lumps and work it out, or not. He stands to lose as much, or more, when she gets angry than it might cost to hire the work done.

 

I didn’t mean to insult you. I meant to point out that something is lacking for this to be acceptable to you. I was brusque and I apologize.

 

Keep in mind, he/this is what you are getting when it is all said and done.

[PhoenixRising8]

I get where he’s coming from because you just don’t know what you’re going to get when you say you’re leaving. When I told my ex, he refused to leave and I couldn’t. I had to stay in the city because of my job. He could have, and eventually did, move to our all season cottage. In the ensuing 3 months he made my life a living hell. He finally moved when he lost any remaining support from my daughter. Tom knows all of this. And yes, he could hire out the work, but it’s expensive and affordability has to be factored into the equation.

 

Anyway, this is all assuming he follows through this time. Maybe breaking up was needed. Or maybe it’s just more tall tales. Time will tell. But in the meantime, I am not getting my hopes up or putting my life on hold. I’ve already wasted far too much time last 10 years. I took my power back and I’m keeping it.

[Snipercatt]

Some one who is dishonest to avoid conflict and who uses the excuse that the ends justify the means, in this case the economic costs, takes those traits with them regardless the individual they are in relationship with.

 

It doesn’t matter if Tom dishonors people because he is conflict avoidant and passive aggressive, or if it is intentional. Either way, he’s a cad.

 

He’s not creating any ripples until after the wedding and considering your ultimatum about him attending “with her” the house renovations are the new cover.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Snipercatt

[Amethyst68]

What's the expectation going forward? Will you continue to text and message him or will it be NC until you see the separation actually happen?

 

Will you be able to maintain NC? I'm only asking because every time he contacts you, you have caved. You sound strong in your posts but your actions don't reflect what you write.

[PhoenixRising8]

Some one who is dishonest to avoid conflict and who uses the excuse that the ends justify the means, in this case the economic costs, takes those traits with them regardless the individual they are in relationship with.

 

It doesn’t matter if Tom dishonors people because he is conflict avoidant and passive aggressive, or if it is intentional. Either way, he’s a cad.

 

He’s not creating any ripples until after the wedding and considering your ultimatum about him attending “with her” the house renovations are the new cover.

 

You are not correct. The wedding is in July. I told him if they are not separated before then, he should just stay where he is because I will not believe he will ever leave. I will not entertain any notion of us beyond may or June. And July will mark 10 months since the first attempt so no. The renos can be done in a few weeks. No reason to drag them out to July when it’s hot and sticky.

 

He also knows that we still aren’t a sure thing. I’m not falling into his arms and into bed with him. The original plan was for him to move in with me. I have told him that is not an option. He has to move out and regain my trust, of which he has very little. Beyond me, he has the uphill battle of winning over my daughter.

So it won’t be a cake walk.

 

I’ve also told him that if this is a charade and he comes up with another excuse to prolong things, this time there will be consequences for him such that he will never want to hear my name again much less see me. He knows when pushed too far I can be quite forceful - he’s seen it with my ex who I finally managed to stop from harassing me by threatening divorce for mental cruelty which I would make part of public record and share with his family, among other things I threatened to retaliate with. He’s been quiet as a mouse for 2 months. So yes, when pushed too hard, this people pleaser can become someone to be reckoned with. Tom knows that hell hath no fury like this Scorpio woman. He ought to know exactly what I will do if this is a charade. And if it is a charade and he continues then he will have no one to blame but himself for the fall out.

[BTDT2012]

He ought to know exactly what I will do if this is a charade. And if it is a charade and he continues then he will have no one to blame but himself for the fall out.

So you really aren't done with him. The best revenege is living a good life.

[Starswillshine]

Good Lord, this is all so predictable. His tears and your reaction.

 

Listen to yourself. Your dramatic post... "I could barely understand him through the tears." Give me a break.

 

You arent done and you are showing you arent..you are still holding out hope. It is sad because even if this guy leaves he is no prize. He is the exact opposite and you'll find yourself in his wife's position if he ever does let you be #1. But my guess if the divorce ever comes, it will be he needs space to clear his mind.

[BaileyB]

The wedding is in July. I told him if they are not separated before then, he should just stay where he is because I will not believe he will ever leave. I will not entertain any notion of us beyond may or June.

 

He also knows that we still aren’t a sure thing. I’m not falling into his arms and into bed with him. The original plan was for him to move in with me. I have told him that is not an option. He has to move out and regain my trust, of which he has very little. Beyond me, he has the uphill battle of winning over my daughter.

 

You have moved your deadline back, yet again. It’s hard to believe, and yet it’s all so very predictable...

 

I simply can’t believe you still want this man. After everything that has happened, and everything you have said about him... I can’t actually believe it.

 

I feel badly for your daughter... if I was in her position, I would be putting up some pretty serious boundaries - with you, and with this man if he ever does actually leave his wife to be with you.

[sagamore]

LKK, gently...he DOES still have you on the hook. You may not be physical with him but as long as he keeps the door one tiny crack open, you won’t be able to truly move on. Just one phone call and a few song lyrics and he’s got rent-free space in your head once again. Pretty slick.

 

And speaking of which...can we talk about his lame romantic shtick? This married, middle-aged guy with his cheesy song lyrics and his “between now and forever” BS...don’t you sort of want to laugh? Who actually believes or enjoys this sh*t? Especially when all these flowery words are backed up with...um, a whole lot of nothing. I can’t for the life of me imagine how any woman could be turned on by this guy! Frankly my vibrator is more reliable and has a better personality than your Don Juan Tom.

[PhoenixRising8]

Good grief people! What part of the affair is OVER did I not make clear? We have NOT reconciled. I have made it clear to him that IF he separates, he isn't moving in with me AND we are not a sure thing. He has a lot to prove to me, if he wants us. He has to leave because it's the right thing for him to do or not do. It has nothing to do with me. And I'm not necessarily waiting in the wings with a soft landing for him. IF he wants me back, he has to WIN me over, and not just with words. But if he continues to tell me he will and doesn't, there will be consequences. I may even tell his BS. It may be the only way to put the nail in the coffin for us.

 

As for July, it isn't a new deadline because we aren't together. I only told him if he hasn't left in the next month or two and he goes to he wedding as a couple it means he's been playing games. So he shouldn't expect that I would even consider giving him a chance.

 

I'm amazed at how I'm being branded a fool for considering giving this lying cheater a chance. Why I might want him in my life. Technically, I cheated too so I'd be a hypocrite if I held against him the very thing I can be accused of, even though I told the ex we were done. How many BSs are there on this forum that have gone beyond the betrayal and built stronger unions in the end. Why can the MM and OW not do the same? I'm not saying we will, or that the odds aren't against it. HE HAS A LONG WAY TO GO TO RECOVER.

 

Do I still love him? Yes, I do. I can't just get over loving him overnight. All you know is those pieces that you parse in this thread, and it's always the most negative aspects. But there is a lot of good in him. We've had a lot of positives and one negative, albeit a big one. Few people are all bad, or all good. He's no exception. It is possible he has just been human and confused and afraid, thereby making bad decisions. Or he is nothing more than a lying, cheating cad. The next couple of months will tell the story.

 

Everyone doubted my approach. That I would succeed in ending the affair but I did. I did it my way. It's working for me. I have set boundaries and he's prepared to live by them. I'm trying to regain respect, from myself and from him. Without that, there's nothing.

 

Now go ahead, let me have it ...

[PhoenixRising8]

LKK, gently...he DOES still have you on the hook. You may not be physical with him but as long as he keeps the door one tiny crack open, you won’t be able to truly move on. Just one phone call and a few song lyrics and he’s got rent-free space in your head once again. Pretty slick.

 

And speaking of which...can we talk about his lame romantic shtick? This married, middle-aged guy with his cheesy song lyrics and his “between now and forever” BS...don’t you sort of want to laugh? Who actually believes or enjoys this sh*t? Especially when all these flowery words are backed up with...um, a whole lot of nothing. I can’t for the life of me imagine how any woman could be turned on by this guy! Frankly my vibrator is more reliable and has a better personality than your Don Juan Tom.

 

This made me laugh!

 

The song lyric was from one of "our songs". Sorry but I'm just as lame because I relate songs to situations and people. I write poetry. Some people really are that cheesy.

[Starswillshine]

Kat, you are in charge of your life and none of us have to live it. If you want to be continued to be use, knock yourself out. I, personally, couldnt stay in that vicious cycle and took control of my life. You'll get there one day but in the meantime you'll waste precious days of your life.

 

And yes, he is still using you. And you are still allowing it. You are just too deep to see it or understand it..

[PhoenixRising8]

How is he using me? A call here or there? I've already said I've renewed my gym membership, set up personal training, signed up for hiking and cycling. Heck, I'm even doing the church thing and I'm not religious! I'm doing my own thing. Keeping busy. Not focusing exclusively on him. I think I'm doing better than many. Is it perfect? No. But expecting perfection is begging for failure.

 

And why does no one even considered I've used him along the way? Women get used but men don't? I've definitely had my use of him, emotionally and physically. Just saying.

[PhoenixRising8]

Have at what? I'm doing things for me, by myself. I'm building my life without him, not around him.

[anika99]

Good Lord, this is all so predictable. His tears and your reaction.

 

Listen to yourself. Your dramatic post... "I could barely understand him through the tears." Give me a break.

 

You arent done and you are showing you arent..you are still holding out hope. It is sad because even if this guy leaves he is no prize. He is the exact opposite and you'll find yourself in his wife's position if he ever does let you be #1. But my guess if the divorce ever comes, it will be he needs space to clear his mind.

 

lol...he just needs a fainting couch and some smelling salts.

 

He says he needs to do those renos before he leave because they are needed before the house is sold and he doesn’t think she’ll let him do them after.

 

Good Lord, here we go again. He's not going to get those renovations done by July, He can drag the reno's out for a long time with varied excuses. Bad weather, don't have the right tools, too busy, etc. You will keep buying the excuses and then when July comes he is going to that wedding. You will freak out, tear him a new one, come here and vow that you are REALLY DONE THIS TIME! He'll come home, you will ignore some of his calls and play hard to get. He will cry and beg and find new ridiculous ways to get your attention. Once he has it then it will be off to the races again. "oh I'm really going to leave, in September, as soon as this or that happens" "Well you better! I swear to God If you spend Thankgiving with your wife then I'm really never going to talk to you again"

 

You are on his hook. Doesn't matter that you go to the gym an church. What does that have to do with anything? You still talk to him, you're still holding out hope. You won't be done with him until you stop talking to him. As long as you are in contact with him and listening to his lies you will never be able to grieve and heal. You are just delaying the inevitable. He lies so much he can't even make sense in a single conversation. He says he's going to look for a place to live but then he says he can't leave because he has to renovate the house first. So is looking for a place to live or is he renovating the house. Landlords don't hold rental units for people who don't even know when they can move.

Edited March 19, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[BaileyB]

Ah Kat, after all these pages and all the tears you have shed... I just can’t believe that you don’t see it. You are back to the very stubborn, defensive, “I know better than everyone here and I’m not going to listen to a word you all say...” woman that we met on page 1. I honestly thought you had moved past this...

[Abetterme]

Everyone doubted my approach. That I would succeed in ending the affair but I did. I did it my way. It's working for me. I have set boundaries and he's prepared to live by them. I'm trying to regain respect, from myself and from him. Without that, there's nothing.

 

Now go ahead, let me have it ...

 

@Kat - I say this with kindness, but it is sad to read this update. I think the reason folks are being so harsh is because you are “back in this”. Just because you’re keeping a little distance and not sleeping with him, doesn’t mean you aren’t engaging in an EA. When you say above you’ve ended this, you simply haven’t.

 

Everyone is just concerned because they’ve been there and know, you can’t move forward until you’ve truly separated yourself. He has you engaging, which is all he needs at the moment. You again defend him when the last 10 pages you did nothing but bash him. The other posters are only drawing from your own words to make their evaluations of Tom.

 

I know feelings don’t dissipate overnight, but you have to be more honest with yourself about what you really can expect from him. I find it extremely implausible that this man will be leaving his family in the midst of a child’s wedding. You are only delaying the inevitable. I am sorry, it hurts and it’s hard to back away, but he doesn’t deserve you.

 

As always, wishing you the best...

Edited March 19, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
quote edited

[PhoenixRising8]

I'm not saying I know better. Sadly, every time I thought everyone was wrong, I was the one proven wrong. Which is precisely why I have no great expectations with his latest pronouncements. Just because we've had a couple of conversations doesn't mean I'm back on the roller coaster, contrary to what seems to be consensus on this thread. It's why I've started to look at what I need to do for my own well being. But I can say that til I'm blue in the face and you'll all just conclude I'm back in.

[PhoenixRising8]

The wedding isn't his kid's wedding. It's Dick and Jane's. If it were his kids, yeah no way.

[assertives]

It's honestly sad to see this update. But I was kinda of expecting it. Not the he'll reach out part, but that you would respond part. He emailed you, which means you haven't blocked him. He asked you if he could call you and you said yes. Now you may think it's nothing and that you got it all under control. But this little crack is all he needs to weasel back into your life. He's now come back with a new excuse with the reno projects. He's creative, I'll give him that.

 

Need to renovate the home ---- so that it can be sold (??)

Need to go on a trip to Hawaii ---- so that BS can see how dead the marriage is

Need to stay because adult son/daughter/dog <insert family/friend here> unwell/needs therapy

Need to attend wedding as a couple with BS ---- because? so that Jane and Dick can see how dead the marriage is?

 

You have relayed so many of his lies on here that I have honestly lost track of the story, but none of them make any sense to me. Also, if there so much wrong going on in his family, his focus ought to have been actively working on them and not going out to look for an affair! And now that you've pushed him to leave, he SUDDENLY he feels he needs to be there for his sick daughter/son/wife? Before you start saying who are you to judge since you met him when looking for an affair --- this isn't about the history of how you guys started. It's about his *****ty problem solving/tackling skills or lack thereof. He was spending all day all night with you while the family was collapsing at home.

 

And the fact is that you have started defending and speaking up him on here all over again and lashing out at posters here. Just like you were in the earlier pages. You are back where you were before whether you realise it or not. Nevermind you aren't sleeping with him, nevermind you aren't "officially" back in an affair with him. He's got you thinking about him, about the wedding, about July. You are back in the details of his life and you even updated him on yours.

 

You don't owe us an explanation because it's your life, your choice after all. But perhaps you really need to be honest with yourself on this. Even if he emails you a copy of the divorce papers, it does not change the fact that he has been abusive, disrespectful and manipulative to his wife and kids and Dick and Jane. He is still satan 2.0. Say if your ex comes back and puts in the effort to prove himself and earn whatever he needs to earn from you, and asks for another chance, would you honestly have given him the time of the day? This is exactly why others are saying you are still on his hook.

[PhoenixRising8]

I see what you're saying because no I wouldn't let Satan back in. Then again I've had 30X more of Satan.

 

We've been apart now for almost a month. He didn't have to reach out. I was firm that I wasn't going to be the other woman so what's the point? Don't they generally high tail it when the OW dares not to stay in her place, which clearly I'm not. I'm more high maintenance than I'm worth, especially since sex isn't part of the equation. And I doubt my barrage was ego stroking, respectful or adoring. I didn't apologize for any of it. And I'm not going to. So what exactly am I giving him that he would want? I even hinted that I would go to BS. What's the point of continuing the charade of he's leaving under those circumstances? Surely he can find someone more malleable because I have become a bit of a loose cannon.

 

He has said he is leaving, even given I'm not a sure thing. The month without me has shown him that he really doesn't want to be with her to which I responded "why is this time any different than the previous several months? He said he realizes I made the marriage tolerable. I filled all the empty spaces. I told him I will not fulfill that role again so he might as well go back to hearth and home or AM again. He says it's because he realized he gave up the best thing he's ever had and he's realized he fears that more than leaving. What he has isn't what he wants for his life. He admits he's been selfish and hasn't thought about how he's impacted others. My texts made him face that and that isn't how he wants to live his life.

 

Do I believe him? Why should I? I guess I don't see how a couple of calls mean I've back tracked.

[BaileyB]

I'm stuck no longer. I spoke to my daughter tonight and told her the one thing that never made sense was why he would tell them he wanted to divorce. She looked at me like I had two heads. "Really mom? Because dad didn't say that all the time to both of us?" Occam's razor ... can't see forest for the trees. So many things make sense now. How did I miss this?!?! So obvious now.

 

Like how he was so charming and always had the right thing to say ... this from the guy who was inexperienced with women. The guy who was shy once upon a time. Yeah, he's done this before.

 

Guess you can say the fog has truly lifted.

 

I went from Satan to Satan 2.0 :-(

 

It's wondering how I ever open up to and trust someone else again after the 2 exes, H & MM who turned out to be little better than xH.

 

 

These are your words from a week ago Kat. What has changed, such that you are now talking with him again and possibly considering taking him back, if/when he files for divorce?