alphamale Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 I think some men get stuck being either passive or aggressive - while overlooking the skill of being assertive. what's the difference between aggressive and assertive?
Rocker71 Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 S&*^ test or just bad behavior...who cares. What's important is to dump someone who chooses to be this way in a relationship. No V is worth that. I agree. Women are not conscious that they are in fact testing us, but they are indeed tests. The way to pass any of these tests are to just act like nothing phases you. Acting like this shows strength and subconsciously communicates to her that you may possibly have other options waiting in the wings. Also know when to check her on her bad behavior. This is also a test. For example: if you 2 are on a date and she looks at her phone too much. Tell her something like: "I can leave the two of you alone if you want...". It communicates in a sort of covert way that possibly you may have another option thats willing to give you her full attention. I've been failing crap tests for the longest. When a chick I'm with starts her crap I have trouble holding my emotions and I let it rip. I have to work on that and actually following my own advice about acting like nothing phases me when she starts her BS. If she doesn't respect you, it'll be impossible for her to love you. Some of these women purposely keep dudes around just to crap test them and when the dude reacts shes entertained and has something to talk about with her girlfriends. Don't be her entertainment. Just act like none of her BS phases you. 1
Author beowulf44 Posted October 18, 2018 Author Posted October 18, 2018 It is all about shifting blame, if she is proven to be "the bad, mad crazy one" then it takes the focus off his own flaws and bad traits. Read his other threads. Not at all. I welcome all input on the situation - her behavior or mine. But if thats your view, thats okay too. It could be his way of regaining a sense of control about the breakup, thinking that "If I had just passed her multiple tests, we could be together now. Maybe if I show her I can better pass her tests in the future, we can be together again!" A way of rationalizing her latest break-up in such a way that makes reconciliation seem more possible to him, if you will. I'm sure there is some element of me that entertains that. Really, its just to understand her behavior in those situations, and the intent behind some of her more silly requests. More to the point, its about how I should have dealt with them to maintain a healthy frame on the relationship (assuming Im being honest and not a blame shifter as the other poster suggested, and also assuming that the relationship was worth maintaining).
Author beowulf44 Posted October 18, 2018 Author Posted October 18, 2018 I agree. Women are not conscious that they are in fact testing us, but they are indeed tests. The way to pass any of these tests are to just act like nothing phases you. Acting like this shows strength and subconsciously communicates to her that you may possibly have other options waiting in the wings. Also know when to check her on her bad behavior. This is also a test. For example: if you 2 are on a date and she looks at her phone too much. Tell her something like: "I can leave the two of you alone if you want...". It communicates in a sort of covert way that possibly you may have another option thats willing to give you her full attention. I've been failing crap tests for the longest. When a chick I'm with starts her crap I have trouble holding my emotions and I let it rip. I have to work on that and actually following my own advice about acting like nothing phases me when she starts her BS. If she doesn't respect you, it'll be impossible for her to love you. Some of these women purposely keep dudes around just to crap test them and when the dude reacts shes entertained and has something to talk about with her girlfriends. Don't be her entertainment. Just act like none of her BS phases you. Thanks for the response. Often I tried to act as if nothing phased me. Sometimes it didn't, but sometimes I couldnt help it but get sucked in to the drama. One situation comes to mind where she was venting to me about the poor service we had just gotten at a restaurant, and how she wanted to write a poor review on Yelp to hurt their business. I told her it wasn't worth it, the waiter made an honest mistake, etc. The more I told her I didn't think it was a big deal, the more agitated she became, until finally I got sucked into her emotions and we started arguing. At that point, she became calm, and I almost got the sense that she had just notched a victory, because now I was agitated and she was at peace. Side note: as I've said, I don't mean to make her sound like a bad person. I'm just trying to present the facts as I saw them and understand the context behind these situations better. 1
guest569 Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 One situation comes to mind where she was venting to me about the poor service we had just gotten at a restaurant, and how she wanted to write a poor review on Yelp to hurt their business. I told her it wasn't worth it, the waiter made an honest mistake, etc. Did the waiter make an honest mistake? I think it's very common these days for people to write restaurant reviews. If she thought it was bad service, why can't she post about it?
guest569 Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 I'm sure there is some element of me that entertains that. Really, its just to understand her behavior in those situations, and the intent behind some of her more silly requests. More to the point, its about how I should have dealt with them to maintain a healthy frame on the relationship (assuming Im being honest and not a blame shifter as the other poster suggested, and also assuming that the relationship was worth maintaining). Then forget about silly dating coaches and 'poo testing'. A lot of that stuff is just persuasively written trash that is not based on any science or psychology. Learn some more about human behaviour and interactions, but forget about these 'females, through their DNA millions of years ago will play manipulative games to test you' when it's really sounding more and more like you guys just had some communication and boundary issues. FYI they didn't have YELP millions of years ago, before humans. Most of this is about psychology and society rather than 'female DNA'. If someone is venting, and you shut them down by saying 'that's silly. forget about it', you're going to aggravate them. When she demands that you bring her a coffee when you're riding your bike and say 'well I'm riding my bike so, no.' that sounds totally fine to me. What do you think you could or should have said or done? 2
kendahke Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 I wouldn't call any of those sh*t tests--I'd call them her showing you that she's sky-high maintenance and is not relationship material. The last sh*t test I was handed was by a 64 yr old man who threw into my lap the information that he had a sexual relationship going on with his 19 yr old niece that he wasn't going to give up. THAT is a sh*t test. 1
Author beowulf44 Posted October 18, 2018 Author Posted October 18, 2018 Then forget about silly dating coaches and 'poo testing'. A lot of that stuff is just persuasively written trash that is not based on any science or psychology. Learn some more about human behaviour and interactions, but forget about these 'females, through their DNA millions of years ago will play manipulative games to test you' when it's really sounding more and more like you guys just had some communication and boundary issues. FYI they didn't have YELP millions of years ago, before humans. Most of this is about psychology and society rather than 'female DNA'. If someone is venting, and you shut them down by saying 'that's silly. forget about it', you're going to aggravate them. When she demands that you bring her a coffee when you're riding your bike and say 'well I'm riding my bike so, no.' that sounds totally fine to me. What do you think you could or should have said or done? Could you elaborate more on the communication issues? I totally agree even though I never directly mentioned it, so I’d be interested in hearing how you deduced that.
shydad Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 I know sh*t tests are a common thing in relationships. ... Any input is appreciated. Never heard of this, but it sounds really stupid. I certainly would not want to be around such a person. 1
guest569 Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 Could you elaborate more on the communication issues? I totally agree even though I never directly mentioned it, so I’d be interested in hearing how you deduced that. I feel like I already did? What do you think?
Woggle Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 Stop thinking of this as something women do and more as an issue that you have in your relationship. 2
Rocker71 Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 Stop thinking of this as something women do and more as an issue that you have in your relationship. But this is something that women do. In the context of a relationship at least, women operate on emotions, just like animals operate on instict. Emotions rule the woman's mind. If she can relieve her boredom by baiting her man into an argument over petty BS she'll do it and it'll entertain her. If the guy doesn't take the bait she sees him as strong emotionally and emotionally above her. Logic rules emotion any day. It's what women do. They may deny they do it. But they don't realize they're doing it because it starts in their subconscious. They are wired this way to weed out weak males. A woman's sh*t tests are biological.
5x5 Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 But this is something that women do. In the context of a relationship at least, women operate on emotions, just like animals operate on instict. Emotions rule the woman's mind. If she can relieve her boredom by baiting her man into an argument over petty BS she'll do it and it'll entertain her. If the guy doesn't take the bait she sees him as strong emotionally and emotionally above her. Logic rules emotion any day. It's what women do. They may deny they do it. But they don't realize they're doing it because it starts in their subconscious. They are wired this way to weed out weak males. A woman's sh*t tests are biological. What a crock! Your proclamations categorising a whole gender are ridiculous. My wife is very rational, , terrific at mathematics, has little time for games, isn't interested in emotional rubbish and is very direct and to the point. She also has multiple tertiary qualifications including a STEM degree. Is a manager in government, and employs plenty of men and women with tertiary qualifications in various disciplines. She is no nonsense, and is also an effective leader with a fine reputation in her field. She never picks fights to relieve boredom or any other carry on. Likewise through my previous marriage, current marriage and all of my other sexual relationships with dozens of women. I can't recall any of them trying S Tests on me in any instance. If that's all you have experienced, perhaps you might try dating better quality women. As to the OP, when you're in a relationship with an adult, who is behaving like a child. Do feel free to tell them to grow up. 2
Highndry Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 This is abnormal behavior you're trying to pass off as normal. Your ex had BPD or some other Cluster B crap as evidenced by your other thread where she left you and got with your friend after treating you like garbage. Quality women don't play those games.
Author beowulf44 Posted October 19, 2018 Author Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) This is abnormal behavior you're trying to pass off as normal. Your ex had BPD or some other Cluster B crap as evidenced by your other thread where she left you and got with your friend after treating you like garbage. Quality women don't play those games. Thanks for reading my other thread - I was actually wondering about the personality thing too. And yeah, that was definitely weird - after reflecting on the relationship in my head, I think she's trying to use my friend as a chess piece to make me feel stinky (I don't think my friend saw through her ploy). I could be wrong... doesn't really change anything for me going forward anyway. Edited October 19, 2018 by beowulf44
guest569 Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 Thanks for reading my other thread - I was actually wondering about the personality thing too. And yeah, that was definitely weird - after reflecting on the relationship in my head, I think she's trying to use my friend as a chess piece to make me feel stinky (I don't think my friend saw through her ploy). I could be wrong... doesn't really change anything for me going forward anyway. That really sucks. But I think you are better off without that sort of thing. Woggle is right though. Stop dismissing this as "what women do" as 5 x 5 said, (and many women will vouch) it's bollocks and he has not had that experience from women in his relationships. Has this been a pattern for you OP? Trying to dismiss it as something normal that women do is just making excuses for her and stopping you from moving on and stopping you from learning from it. You need to realise that her behaviour was not okay but it's not something you have to learn to manage or deal with in a relationship. It ain't healthy. . Otherwise you're going to tolerate it in your next relationship.
Author beowulf44 Posted October 19, 2018 Author Posted October 19, 2018 That really sucks. But I think you are better off without that sort of thing. Woggle is right though. Stop dismissing this as "what women do" as 5 x 5 said, (and many women will vouch) it's bollocks and he has not had that experience from women in his relationships. Has this been a pattern for you OP? Trying to dismiss it as something normal that women do is just making excuses for her and stopping you from moving on and stopping you from learning from it. You need to realise that her behaviour was not okay but it's not something you have to learn to manage or deal with in a relationship. It ain't healthy. . Otherwise you're going to tolerate it in your next relationship. I wouldn't say its a pattern with me at all actually - whether these are considered **** tests or simply bad behavior, at the very least I'm realizing its abnormal. Like Ive said before, all this stems from me trying to understand her behavior, instead trying to trivialize it as "she's just crazy". I know **** tests are a real thing in attraction (for example, when first talking to a girl she may try to **** test you to gauge your strength as a male), so to me my ex's behavior in these situations were congruent with those type of tactics. The more I think about the relationship from a broken up, third party perspective, the more I do realize it was unhealthy on the whole. So at the very least, I'm grateful for the insight I've gained that way, through this forum and otherwise
ExpatInItaly Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 I'm sure there is some element of me that entertains that. Really, its just to understand her behavior in those situations, and the intent behind some of her more silly requests. More to the point, its about how I should have dealt with them to maintain a healthy frame on the relationship (assuming Im being honest and not a blame shifter as the other poster suggested, and also assuming that the relationship was worth maintaining). But that's the point - you can't really have a healthy relationship with someone who is immature and thrives on drama. Your reaction to her demands wouldn't have made much difference to the final outcome here; it's the very fact that she was doing it to begin with. You were trying to make a healthy relationship with someone who's got a lot of growing up to do. It was going to be an uphill battle no matter how you sliced it. 1
ExpatInItaly Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 what's the difference between aggressive and assertive? In my mind, assertiveness involves confidently putting forth your own options and boundaries while being respectful of others' positions. Aggressiveness usually involves trying to steamroll over others' boundaries in an effort to make them accept your views. 1
basil67 Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) I wouldn't say its a pattern with me at all actually - whether these are considered **** tests or simply bad behavior, at the very least I'm realizing its abnormal. Like Ive said before, all this stems from me trying to understand her behavior, instead trying to trivialize it as "she's just crazy". I know **** tests are a real thing in attraction (for example, when first talking to a girl she may try to **** test you to gauge your strength as a male), so to me my ex's behavior in these situations were congruent with those type of tactics. The more I think about the relationship from a broken up, third party perspective, the more I do realize it was unhealthy on the whole. So at the very least, I'm grateful for the insight I've gained that way, through this forum and otherwise Writing someone off as "just crazy" isn't trivialising it. It's simply about writing them off without spending our valuable time trying to analyse them. We've got better things to do than psycho analyse people we don't want, eh? What makes you say that you *know* these tests are a real thing in attraction? Because I would argue that they are not. Most normal people are on their extraordinarily best behaviour if they are into someone. They aren't going to risk a good thing by doing stupid tests. If they do push the boundaries, it's probably just their high maintenance personality. If someone does this, run away....don't go proving yourself to a crazy one. Edited October 19, 2018 by basil67 1
d0nnivain Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 But this is something that women do. In the context of a relationship at least, women operate on emotions, just like animals operate on instict. Emotions rule the woman's mind. If she can relieve her boredom by baiting her man into an argument over petty BS she'll do it and it'll entertain her. If the guy doesn't take the bait she sees him as strong emotionally and emotionally above her. Logic rules emotion any day. It's what women do. They may deny they do it. But they don't realize they're doing it because it starts in their subconscious. They are wired this way to weed out weak males. A woman's sh*t tests are biological. Generalize much? I am a logical woman who is not ruled by my emotions. Yes, I have & express emotions but I don't relieve boredom or entertain myself by baiting my SO into an argument. If the majority of women you meet do the above things you describe you need to meet better women. Of course I suspect that since the above is your philosophy & world view you perceive every interaction as fitting into that mold. I suspect that you consider my reply a emotional response by a woman. 1
elaine567 Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 **** testing is not only something women do, men are pretty good at it too. Basically it is about boundary checking and pushing the envelop to see how far a person can push another, it is all part of establishing a relationship. It can happen fairly quickly to weed out the no-hopers, but it often starts in earnest, once the honeymoon period is over when both are vying for their place in the partnership. If it exposes serious incompatibility then it is obviously a good thing.
Happy Lemming Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 I don't think this "poo" testing is all that common, but it does exist. Many years ago, I lived with a woman that "poo" tested me. She provoked an argument and started yelling and screaming to see what my reaction would be. Things quickly escalated and I got in my truck and left... to cool down. After about an hour I returned, she told me I passed her "test". She wanted to see if I would get physical in an argument or if I would leave to allow things to cool off. At that point I went to my local hardware store and purchased a bunch of moving boxes and some packing tape. I returned and told her to pack her crap up and get out of my house. I wasn't going to be "tested" in my own home. My advice is simple... NEXT!! 6
shydad Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 This is abnormal behavior ... Your ex had BPD or some other Cluster B crap For what it's worth, even grouping BPD into this may not be applicable. My BPD ex lives a chaotic life, but never played these games with me.
ExpatInItaly Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 For what it's worth, even grouping BPD into this may not be applicable. My BPD ex lives a chaotic life, but never played these games with me. And that's what's funny, as my own BPD ex absolutely did. The condition runs on a whole spectrum of "traits", some displaying them more strongly and consistently than others. I am not saying OP's ex is BPD, as we have nowhere near enough information about her to guess. But I was repeatedly expected to jump through hoops for my ex, and he became nearly unbearable when I wouldn't do it. I also came to realize that for him, setting up certain "tests" of my love that he knew I couldn't possibly fulfill was a way for him to wield power and (try) to dictate the terms of our relationship. Needless to say, we didn't last very long. OP, to be perfectly clear, people without personality disorders can certainly engage in this sort of behaviour too. I think your ex is very immature, but I wouldn't quite go as far as assuming she has an underlying mental health issue at this point.
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