9Lives Posted September 9, 2005 Posted September 9, 2005 You know, many of the us ow get into these stressful relationship but we dont consider giving them a limit to a time that the whole thing will have to end. Wouldn't you think it would be best of you decided that after a certain amount of time, it is best to just cash in? Why would you be willing to wait..and wait...and wait...when you can be in control of how long this will last and move on if things are not working out the way you want? It is just a thought...I believe there are a very intelligent, good people, who have gotten themselves in this lifestyle. I know one thing for sure, if me and my mm make it to the alter...he is going to have to sign a prenutial agreement stating if he or I is caught cheating,,he loses everything. I am serious. It is too easy to just cheat on someone. I want to make him think,,,and think, and think. What are your thoughts.
Craig Posted September 9, 2005 Posted September 9, 2005 I can't see any marriage lasting that has its beginings in deceipt, betrayal and total disregard for another marriage. A pre-nup of the type you describe, if it were enforceable would just make the cheater hide their cheating better. Don't people that get into affairs say things like "you can't help who you fall in love with" and etc?
Author 9Lives Posted September 9, 2005 Author Posted September 9, 2005 Just because your relationship did not start out the way a normal relationship start that does not mean it is doomed forever. It is just not true. If you believe that then you will fail. It has worked for people who may have gotten themselves into these relationship before. People want to doom it but it does not have to be. A single guy can start out with a begin in deceipt. Is it doomed too? People dont do the same thing in every relationship. I just dont believe it. I know it can work.
TXgal Posted September 10, 2005 Posted September 10, 2005 Just because your relationship did not start out the way a normal relationship start that does not mean it is doomed forever. It is just not true. If you believe that then you will fail. It has worked for people who may have gotten themselves into these relationship before. People want to doom it but it does not have to be. A single guy can start out with a begin in deceipt. Is it doomed too? People dont do the same thing in every relationship. I just dont believe it. I know it can work. 9Lives, I do agree to you to some extent about it being capable of working. It is possible, and takes VERY HARD work and sacrifice on both sides. It does happen, but it's a very small percentage that makes it. More often than not, it doesn't work out, the MM usually doesn't leave his family, or alot of the times if he ends up with the OW he ends up cheating on her too... Now I'm not saying to be a complete pessimist and say from the beginning that it is doomed. Optimism is always great for a relationship and mind... But when we get ourselves involved in this kind of relationship, we should go into it understanding because he's already married, it can only go so far. I feel that it is foolish for us OW to go into the relationship actually thinking or expecting him to leave his family for you... Because usually that is not the case. I'm not trying to upset, or be pessimistic, I just think it would be wise if every OW keeps the view on the relationship, and perspective extremely realisitc. Even if he professes his undying love for you... Sometimes, circumstances prevent what we would like. We just have to understand we knew he was married to begin with, and you shouldn't expect him to leave. Unless he is the one who initiates it, and continues to bring it up... But MM also do that to if they feel they are losing you and need to do "lip service" to keep you... I know it's happened with me, and I was fool for believing it, and his empty promises... I just don't want other women to make the same mistakes, and think realistically, to prevent pain and heartache... Don't believe everything he tells you... Sometimes they are only words... We OW need to be very careful, realistic and keep a healthy distance, we need to protect our hearts at all costs... Majority of OW/MM relationships end in complete heartache... Yes, some do work, but the percentage is very small... so don't ever count on it compeltely, and don't get your hopes up, only to be shattered in the end. I agree with 9lives... There needs to be a time period... not just if and when he's gonna marry you... but a time period to how long this can work for both of you before it detroys both of your lifes... Once the relationship begins to completely rule your life... It's best to slow it down, take a break, distance yourself, or break it off completely and move on with life... We tend to become controled in this, and become emotionally deficit... After a while we see we are not happy and miserable in the relationship, you should take back control in your life, and sanity... There's only so long something like this can last... Especially if he has made it clear he has no intentions of ever leaving his family... I know my MM made it perfectly clear to me from day one that even though he had strong feelings for me, and ended up falling in love, he still has obligations as a husband and father, and responsibility and has absolutely no intention of ever leaving them... He's happy where he is, and me on the side... It's been nearly a year, and I know it's getting to the point where I can't take it much anymore... He broke it off three months ago, then came back... Everything has changed since...There's no emotion, no closeness... He has withdrawn and pushed away... He's made it clear it's too painful for both of us for emotional attachment... It's sheerly physical and shallow now. My emotional needs aren't close to becoming met, he doesn't take my thoughts and feelings into consideration, and just can't give me what I need... Not even somewhat emotionally... I am trying to distance myself, and slowly cut it off completely. I still love him.. but I know this is destroying me... I'm miserable, over emotional, and high strung all the time... I feel I am losing my sanity. He's not the same, and won't be... IT will be the hardest thing I will do... but I think it's the right choice for me and my life at the moment. To focus on myself, be kind to myself, focus on my own life separate from him, and create my own experience. I take accountability for it all... I made the choice to be in this kind of complicated relationship... But I realize I am also accountable for every circumstance in my life, my happiness, relationship, ect... I am taking responsibilty for my own happiness... I think moving on is the action that must be took... Okay I'm so sorry I drifted off subject... I'm just having a hard time right now... and guess I needed to vent... I need somewhat of a support system, and women who know how I feel, and can understand completely... Alright sorry I've took up so much space...Thanks to those of you who took the time to read this long a$$ post... Everyone take care...
newbby Posted September 10, 2005 Posted September 10, 2005 TX, I completely agree with everything you have said. I quite often in the past felt like a failure in my relationship with mm, taking it upon myself, thinking it was something i said/did, didnt say/do. Although I never expected or even wanted him to leave in many ways, the fact that he didnt, i took personally. One cannot help but to, we are human. However, the best help I got to moving on, through excellent advice from my love shack friends, and through personal revelations, was to not take it personally and to see it for what it was, I was having a relationship with someone that was never available to me in the first place. I know the for the minority it does work, and I agree that you have to be firm in what you want from the relationship for that to happen. I wish you luck 9 lives and I really hope that you get what you want.
foolinlove Posted September 14, 2005 Posted September 14, 2005 TXgal, newbby, you both sound like very strong, smart level headed women....what I can't figure out in my own situation....why can't I just get myself out of this situation. We know it is not healthy for us, we know we want so much more from a relationship, what draws us to these MM? What power do they have over us that we cannot find a single, available man? I know it comes down to being in love, but is being in love suppose to be SO HARD? I've been involved with my MM for several years, in the beginning...it was out of convience, within the last 3 years...it has been waiting for him to leave his wife. I often feel like a complete fool for listening to his excuses and giving him more time. Yet...I haven't been able to just WALK AWAY. When i try to...its like the pain overcomes me and takes over all rational I thought i once had. I've given him a deadline to file his "signed papers" and when he doesn't meet it, I'm going to try with every ounce of energy to walk away from the man I love and want to spend my life with. I'm so afraid i won't have the strengh, I was hoping to find support and understanding from such insightful women as yourselves on how to cope. I have no where else to turn and think i may lose my own sanity if i dont do this.
foolinlove Posted September 14, 2005 Posted September 14, 2005 I know one thing for sure, if me and my mm make it to the alter...he is going to have to sign a prenutial agreement stating if he or I is caught cheating,,he loses everything. I am serious. It is too easy to just cheat on someone. I want to make him think,,,and think, and think. What are your thoughts. 9lives, Has your MM left his W, if so, how long did you wait for him to make his move, and what did you have to do for piece of mind while waiting? It sounds as though you two are together....just wondering!!
RecordProducer Posted September 14, 2005 Posted September 14, 2005 1. Don't give him a deadline, just leave him. He is married, deadlines won't work for him as they might work for single men who are afraid to make the final commitment. He has to miss you for a few months in order to leave his wife and everything behind, make a mess of his life, and be with you. It's hard for him anyway, but as long as you're with him, the deadline doesn't scare him. Humans' minds are build in a way that they don't fear the wolf until they see it in person. 2. You don't want him to be faithful to you because of the prenup. Forbidden things are the sweetest. The more you say "no" the more he will say "yes." Men tend to defend their independence by default. When you usurp it, they will squirm and try to escape. They are also childish. The no-no's give them additional stimulation. You want him to be faithful because he wants to. When you trust them, they get the impression that you don't care so much, that it's not a matter of life and death for you. So you become interesting, because you're not clingy and emotionally dependent. Your mood doesn't depend on whether he has come home later after work or some woman called him on the phone and you didn't even ask him who it was. If you start your relationship with suspicion about his fidelity and check on every step he makes, your marriage will be doomed. Neither of you will like the feeling. He will feel like a chained dog and you will never know if he is faithful because of the money or the love he feels for you. The more you run away from him, the more he will chase after you. That's rule number 1, 2, 3,... and all through 101 - valid for all men.
Author 9Lives Posted September 14, 2005 Author Posted September 14, 2005 9Lives, I do agree to you to some extent about it being capable of working. It is possible, and takes VERY HARD work and sacrifice on both sides. It does happen, but it's a very small percentage that makes it. More often than not, it doesn't work out, the MM usually doesn't leave his family, or alot of the times if he ends up with the OW he ends up cheating on her too... Now I'm not saying to be a complete pessimist and say from the beginning that it is doomed. Optimism is always great for a relationship and mind... But when we get ourselves involved in this kind of relationship, we should go into it understanding because he's already married, it can only go so far. I feel that it is foolish for us OW to go into the relationship actually thinking or expecting him to leave his family for you... Because usually that is not the case. I'm not trying to upset, or be pessimistic, I just think it would be wise if every OW keeps the view on the relationship, and perspective extremely realisitc. Even if he professes his undying love for you... Sometimes, circumstances prevent what we would like. We just have to understand we knew he was married to begin with, and you shouldn't expect him to leave. Unless he is the one who initiates it, and continues to bring it up... But MM also do that to if they feel they are losing you and need to do "lip service" to keep you... I know it's happened with me, and I was fool for believing it, and his empty promises... I just don't want other women to make the same mistakes, and think realistically, to prevent pain and heartache... Don't believe everything he tells you... Sometimes they are only words... We OW need to be very careful, realistic and keep a healthy distance, we need to protect our hearts at all costs... Majority of OW/MM relationships end in complete heartache... Yes, some do work, but the percentage is very small... so don't ever count on it compeltely, and don't get your hopes up, only to be shattered in the end. I agree with 9lives... There needs to be a time period... not just if and when he's gonna marry you... but a time period to how long this can work for both of you before it detroys both of your lifes... Once the relationship begins to completely rule your life... It's best to slow it down, take a break, distance yourself, or break it off completely and move on with life... We tend to become controled in this, and become emotionally deficit... After a while we see we are not happy and miserable in the relationship, you should take back control in your life, and sanity... There's only so long something like this can last... Especially if he has made it clear he has no intentions of ever leaving his family... I know my MM made it perfectly clear to me from day one that even though he had strong feelings for me, and ended up falling in love, he still has obligations as a husband and father, and responsibility and has absolutely no intention of ever leaving them... He's happy where he is, and me on the side... It's been nearly a year, and I know it's getting to the point where I can't take it much anymore... He broke it off three months ago, then came back... Everything has changed since...There's no emotion, no closeness... He has withdrawn and pushed away... He's made it clear it's too painful for both of us for emotional attachment... It's sheerly physical and shallow now. My emotional needs aren't close to becoming met, he doesn't take my thoughts and feelings into consideration, and just can't give me what I need... Not even somewhat emotionally... I am trying to distance myself, and slowly cut it off completely. I still love him.. but I know this is destroying me... I'm miserable, over emotional, and high strung all the time... I feel I am losing my sanity. He's not the same, and won't be... IT will be the hardest thing I will do... but I think it's the right choice for me and my life at the moment. To focus on myself, be kind to myself, focus on my own life separate from him, and create my own experience. I take accountability for it all... I made the choice to be in this kind of complicated relationship... But I realize I am also accountable for every circumstance in my life, my happiness, relationship, ect... I am taking responsibilty for my own happiness... I think moving on is the action that must be took... Okay I'm so sorry I drifted off subject... I'm just having a hard time right now... and guess I needed to vent... I need somewhat of a support system, and women who know how I feel, and can understand completely... Alright sorry I've took up so much space...Thanks to those of you who took the time to read this long a$$ post... Everyone take care... Girlfriend, 3 YEARS is more than enough time. You have to think about YOU not him anymore and that is it. If you want more out of life you will suffer the pain for a brighter day and that is it. You have to look at it from a stand point that you had a love that was unforgetable and that you had a good time but YOU NEED....NEED...NEED....to a establish a life that is more stable. THAT is why you have to walk away. Not because of no other reason. You have given him plenty of time. Now go get your own life. It is not easy but You have to do it. You cant wait for him any longer. I am looking out for you and you can be happy again once this is over. It does not take this long for a man to decide what he wants to do. Dont look at it sadly but be GLAD you had a good time and go on with your life. You will be fine. He is going to miss you and miss you like crazy but do it for you. You can still love him but differently.
Author 9Lives Posted September 14, 2005 Author Posted September 14, 2005 9lives, Has your MM left his W, if so, how long did you wait for him to make his move, and what did you have to do for piece of mind while waiting? It sounds as though you two are together....just wondering!! He is still with her and it has not been easy...I am not going to lie. I have actually tried to break up with him but he wont let me go. It is kinda crazy. I do know one thing...I call it my personal term and aggreement. #1 If you are serious about this relationship, You will have to leave her if you want to be with me in the long run. If you dont want to leave, I can deal with that too. You are not being forced to do anything. We both know you are married. My point is that you will make a choice. #2 I am not going to wait more than 1 year for you to do it. YOu need to show me actions...not words. How serious are you? Time always tells that. #3 I do love him but I dont want to be his mistress forever. I owe it to myself to move on if this is not going to go anywhere. It does not mean I dont love him or I dont want him. It just means that I have to move on to something more stable and better for me. This is not the best thing for me. I want the best thing for me so I will be forced to move in that directions to see it happen. That is it. Our relationship started on those bases. I have told him that because I am not going to wait for him forever. I am so sorry. It is pointless. To me, it is all in the way you look at things. I dont look at it like I am wasting my time. I love him and I enjoy him a whole lot so I am not wasting my time. This is what I want to do with my time. If I felt like I was wasting my time..I would leave him alone. I just cant give him alot of time as far as I am concerned. If it does not work out, I can honestly say....I was a lovely ride for the most part. That man makes me happy most of the time. So that is how I feel. Nobody is forcing anyone.
Marielle Posted September 20, 2005 Posted September 20, 2005 9lives, I totally relate to all you say, finally someone who has a positive, open minded concept of the subject. I m glad your doing well... I m sure normally all this stories end up really bad, but in my case, I ve never been so happy in my life (thought a bit stressed sometimes): -We really love each other, no one EVER loved me and cared about me like him. -We go toghether to any public place in downtown (not a big city here) -He's with me EVERYDAY, more than a single guy -I know he does NOT love his wife (other ppl, family told me) etc etc etc..... -He met my family (the ADORE him, they never liked anyone I ve been with, my mom said he 's too cute ) I know what u r thinking , lol ,you sacarstics out there , you may even be right ...but I m really in love -We are going on vacation in february... But I know that this can have a bad ending, but that can happen woth a single guy too, right??? i know that there is a lot of sacrifice that I will need to do Ok me too, I m going off topic, sorry, but just to express that not every story is the same, prejudice is not a very good councellor
erika2610 Posted September 20, 2005 Posted September 20, 2005 9lives, I totally relate to all you say, finally someone who has a positive, open minded concept of the subject. I m glad your doing well... I m sure normally all this stories end up really bad, but in my case, I ve never been so happy in my life (thought a bit stressed sometimes): -We really love each other, no one EVER loved me and cared about me like him. -We go toghether to any public place in downtown (not a big city here) -He's with me EVERYDAY, more than a single guy -I know he does NOT love his wife (other ppl, family told me) etc etc etc..... -He met my family (the ADORE him, they never liked anyone I ve been with, my mom said he 's too cute ) I know what u r thinking , lol ,you sacarstics out there , you may even be right ...but I m really in love -We are going on vacation in february... But I know that this can have a bad ending, but that can happen woth a single guy too, right??? i know that there is a lot of sacrifice that I will need to do Ok me too, I m going off topic, sorry, but just to express that not every story is the same, prejudice is not a very good councellor The same can happen with a single guy. But IMHO, it's worse with a MM. With a MM, you have to deal with all that comes with him. The W, the kids, the lies. And when it's done, you feel like a fool for believing his lies for soooo long. And with a single guy, you're not helping to tear apart a family.
Marielle Posted September 20, 2005 Posted September 20, 2005 "The same can happen with a single guy. But IMHO, it's worse with a MM. With a MM, you have to deal with all that comes with him. The W, the kids, the lies. And when it's done, you feel like a fool for believing his lies for soooo long. And with a single guy, you're not helping to tear apart a family" That is the big prejudice, thinking that OW helps tear appart a family, a MM seeking love and confort elsewhere is someone who doesn t have it at home, so the family is already torn appart, (my MM made it clear from the begining" I m not divorcing her because of you, I m will do it because I m not happy in this marriage, you happenned to come at the beginning of the end") Anyways to go back to the topic, a deadline is very helpful, but as Recordproducer said (very smart girl) there is no point of giving a deadline when you are staying...
erika2610 Posted September 20, 2005 Posted September 20, 2005 "The same can happen with a single guy. But IMHO, it's worse with a MM. With a MM, you have to deal with all that comes with him. The W, the kids, the lies. And when it's done, you feel like a fool for believing his lies for soooo long. And with a single guy, you're not helping to tear apart a family" That is the big prejudice, thinking that OW helps tear appart a family, a MM seeking love and confort elsewhere is someone who doesn t have it at home, so the family is already torn appart, (my MM made it clear from the begining" I m not divorcing her because of you, I m will do it because I m not happy in this marriage, you happenned to come at the beginning of the end") Anyways to go back to the topic, a deadline is very helpful, but as Recordproducer said (very smart girl) there is no point of giving a deadline when you are staying... Reread that post.. that's not what she said at all. She said, deadlines won't scare him as long as you're with him. And 'don't give him a deadline, just leave him. He has to miss you for a few months in order to leave and leave everything behind.' And I'm not prejudice, I've been an OW. How long've you eebn with him?
cherrie498 Posted September 20, 2005 Posted September 20, 2005 I have a quick question. I hear so much about setting deadlines, initiating NC, isnt this playing the game as much as he is? We are "in love" with our MM, if a deadline or NC was going to cure all then we wouldnt need LS or any other type of support. Our problems would just be cut & dry. I am currently following the advice of NC & I really see it as a waste of time, prolonging what will only happen next month or the month after that. Maybe I am doing it all wrong?! But I just dont see how setting deadlines & NC are helping, shouldnt we be expressing our feeling to our MM just like we are here? Yes we/I feel like I am at wits end, yes I want it to stop, the list goes forever but just because I circle a date &/or dont answer the phone doesnt mean that my feelings just disappear.
LucreziaBorgia Posted September 20, 2005 Posted September 20, 2005 If a MM doesn't have to make a painful and life-changing decision, he won't. If you want him to make a decision - give him a real decision to make. Walk right out of his life, and let him know that when he is ready to make you the 'only woman' instead of the 'other woman', and shows you signed and notarized divorce papers and a lease on his own place, he is free to give you a call. Otherwise, he is to never contact you in any way, shape or form ever again. Then... firmly follow through. That is a clear choice. Very clear. Deadlines, threats and such can be fudged - and if a MM is given a deadline he will most assuredly manipulate the situation to get around it. If you walk away and give him a clear choice with no advanced warning, he will literally be forced to make that choice. If he wants you in his life, he will literally have to walk out of his old one to get you. The problem is... not many people are secure and strong enough to be willing to give up what little they have for what they really want out of life. The greatest fear is that when you walk away, MM will simply not follow. A good deal of people end up unwittingly enabling MM to simply continue staying married because they are not strong enough to survive on their own without MM. Threats and deadlines tend to be empty, and MM knows this. It is what allows him to remain MM, and for him to keep OW firmly in her place. If you have gone to 'no contact' and you do not hear from your MM - then know this. He made his choice. Time to make yours...
newbby Posted September 20, 2005 Posted September 20, 2005 I agree with no deadline. I think just refusing to play a certain role in the MMs life is best, be it by nc or no longer being available in the way he wants you to. MM are not stupid, they know why you dont want to be the mistress, you dont need to lay it all out with words. Actions speak far louder, as we know. Verbally giving deadlines, yet continuing the affair, does nothing positive. Negatively, it means that you either have to back down on your words constantly, or you tie yourself up in your own restrictions. Unless you walk away and stay away once the deadline is up. Think about it, would you want to be with somebody who put a deadline on you, I wouldnt. However, if somebody refused to be with you on your terms, because you werent meeting their needs and stuck to it, that might make you have to address your own actions in order to continue a relationship with them. Giving a deadline takes the problem onto yourself, but refusing to play, leaves them with the responsibilty of changing. Also giving a deadline makes you feel so much weaker when it fails. Just not playing anymore, gives you strength, BEFORE the relationship ends.
cherrie498 Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 Every decision or any that are heart felt aren’t made because someone MAKES you make a decision. Its because the decision is just that HEART FELT. I don’t think that the smartest decision we as OW have made is to sit around & wait, but we do and why because we have love in our hearts. Naive maybe, but a decision we have made. If/when the time comes that one can truly walk away than there shouldn’t even be the conversation of "I am quitting until...." THERE WILL NOT BE AN UNTIL!!!! Does that mean we wouldn’t go back, no. Just that our hearts have taken a new path & are able to move some where new.
Author 9Lives Posted September 21, 2005 Author Posted September 21, 2005 My point is .....THIS IS ABOUT YOU....not about him. You have to get "your life" back. It IS hard. This is not for the punk! This is for someone who is ready for some hard days for better days. That is why you set a dead line. You dont have to tell him. You just need to know.
newbby Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 oh i see, a personal deadline, right, well thats completely different. i agree with you, that it has to shift, from being about him, to being about you.
Recommended Posts