JuneL Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 I understand the fretting, and I understand that other men go physical earlier, but again, there are many many men that do not get physical early. Most men I've dated were like that. My husband kissed me at the 7th date and we had sex after 3 months of dating. I'm not saying this is also the norm, just that it really isn't the end of the world if the guy doesn't get physical at the first few dates, if he shows interest in other ways, i.e. by asking you out. And yes, paying is a sign of interest too! I think it might have something to do with the vibe you were giving off (not okay/didn’t prefer to get physical in the early stage). I gave off the same vibe when I was doing OLD, very briefly. I beliberately dressed conservatively in my pictures; it also had something to do with my education/career/cultural background. In fact, I never even received sexual messages on OLD. Personally, I like my boyfriend to be physically affectionate, but I felt pretty uncomfortable being a bit physical with almost strangers from OLD. But the OP is dying for the guy to make physically moves. 1
thefooloftheyear Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 I understand the fretting, and I understand that other men go physical earlier, but again, there are many many men that do not get physical early. Most men I've dated were like that. My husband kissed me at the 7th date and we had sex after 3 months of dating. I'm not saying this is also the norm, just that it really isn't the end of the world if the guy doesn't get physical at the first few dates, if he shows interest in other ways, i.e. by asking you out. And yes, paying is a sign of interest too! "Many, many" ??? I know a ton of guys, and while I can't say for sure I would be willing to bet that none of them would fail to show practically any physical attention after it's obvious that the woman is receptive and there is a mutual attraction......Like I said...That's the type of stuff you work out when you are a rookie, playing around with 16 year old girls...How a 40 something year old guy would be so clueless is beyond my level of comprehension..And if I were a woman that in the least bit valued that in a relationship, it would have me running to the hills....far away. I know nothing of OLD, but from what I am seeing and hearing as far as guys go, it's either players looking for easy marks or socially awkward/stunted/ or ugly guys...No disrespect to anyone intended....I know there are exceptions..... TFY 1
BluEyeL Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 I think it might have something to do with the vibe you were giving off (not okay/didn’t prefer to get physical in the early stage). I gave off the same vibe when I was doing OLD, very briefly. I beliberately dressed conservatively in my pictures; it also had something to do with my education/career/cultural background. In fact, I never even received sexual messages on OLD. Personally, I like my boyfriend to be physically affectionate, but I felt pretty uncomfortable being a bit physical with almost strangers from OLD. But the OP is dying for the guy to make physically moves. I think that was the case indeed for me. But still think the OP exaggeratees when expects physical contact at the first date. Not everyone wants to touch strangers, including men.
BluEyeL Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 "Many, many" ??? I know a ton of guys, and while I can't say for sure I would be willing to bet that none of them would fail to show practically any physical attention after it's obvious that the woman is receptive and there is a mutual attraction......Like I said...That's the type of stuff you work out when you are a rookie, playing around with 16 year old girls...How a 40 something year old guy would be so clueless is beyond my level of comprehension..And if I were a woman that in the least bit valued that in a relationship, it would have me running to the hills....far away. I know nothing of OLD, but from what I am seeing and hearing as far as guys go, it's either players looking for easy marks or socially awkward/stunted/ or ugly guys...No disrespect to anyone intended....I know there are exceptions..... TFY I don't know, most men I've dated didn't get physical at the first date. I went on over 30 first dates from OLD. The most forward ones, a handful, did at least try to kiss me at at the second date. I did have one very attractive man, medical doctor, who really was very odd, we went out 9 times and nothing. That was really strange and even I had to let him go. But first couple of dates, I wouldn't fret. I'd fret after 4th date or so. I did worry about my husband too once we got to date 4 and no kiss. On date 7, he picked me up and had a bunch of roses on the passenger seat of his car and that's when he kissed me, after he opened the door for me and I said oh and ah at the flowers. I am not saying this guy won't be like my 9 dates no kissing or hand holding guy (really would love to know why the heck was he going out with me, really), but I think give him 3-4 dates before you worry about it.
Author Ruby Slippers Posted October 8, 2018 Author Posted October 8, 2018 It's amazing the caricatures that people can project. I mentioned he paid because it's one of the few cues I got that it was a date. 100% of the men I've dated have paid, no matter how many times I've offered. I stay out of the "who should pay?" threads because for me and the men I like to date, it's a non-issue. Everybody else, y'all have fun fighting it out. Metoo is a wild tangent. I've had 4 first dates in the past month or so, and metoo didn't stop the other three from touching legs under the table, holding hands, or kissing at the end of the date. I'm no longer thinking about his level of contact, just diving into fun new activities and enjoying life. 2
MaleIntuition Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 It's amazing the caricatures that people can project. I mentioned he paid because it's one of the few cues I got that it was a date. 100% of the men I've dated have paid, no matter how many times I've offered. I stay out of the "who should pay?" threads because for me and the men I like to date, it's a non-issue. Everybody else, y'all have fun fighting it out. Metoo is a wild tangent. I've had 4 first dates in the past month or so, and metoo didn't stop the other three from touching legs under the table, holding hands, or kissing at the end of the date. I'm no longer thinking about his level of contact, just diving into fun new activities and enjoying life. But this also exemplifies the difference between a logical thinker and a feeler. You need to feel like it’s a date - while the logic is crystal clear: of course it’s a date! What else would it be? Grown men simply don’t invite strangers for random activities. 1
Happy Lemming Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 Maybe next date, when he gives you the initial hug and goes to pull away, prevent him, and just give him a slow, soft, guileless kiss, closed mouthed, on his lips. You'll find out right away what he's made of. I like this advice!! It reminds me of something that happened to me about 20 years ago. I was outside making stiles for a new porch railing when one of my (female) neighbors asked me about putting some molding around two outdoor arch posts for her. I had chit-chatted with this neighbor in the past, so she wasn't a complete stranger. I said sure (30 minute job for me). After I finished, she told me to come in for some ice tea, and when we sat down she quickly leaned in and kissed me, and we made out. I know we weren't on a date (like your example), but she decided that she wanted to get to know me on a closer level and took the bull by the horns.
JuneL Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 But the OP has made it clear she’s turned off by a man who needs so much help I like this advice!! It reminds me of something that happened to me about 20 years ago. I was outside making stiles for a new porch railing when one of my (female) neighbors asked me about putting some molding around two outdoor arch posts for her. I had chit-chatted with this neighbor in the past, so she wasn't a complete stranger. I said sure (30 minute job for me). After I finished, she told me to come in for some ice tea, and when we sat down she quickly leaned in and kissed me, and we made out. I know we weren't on a date (like your example), but she decided that she wanted to get to know me on a closer level and took the bull by the horns. 1
JuneL Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 My guess is the hot doctor probably enjoyed your company and wasn’t looking to lock you down. I notice that male doctors are way overrated in the dating market, at least in this country. If he’s as hot as you said, I can imagine he had a stream of women throwing at him. Just curious: Had he been married and did he have kids? I don't know, most men I've dated didn't get physical at the first date. I went on over 30 first dates from OLD. The most forward ones, a handful, did at least try to kiss me at at the second date. I did have one very attractive man, medical doctor, who really was very odd, we went out 9 times and nothing. That was really strange and even I had to let him go. But first couple of dates, I wouldn't fret. I'd fret after 4th date or so. I did worry about my husband too once we got to date 4 and no kiss. On date 7, he picked me up and had a bunch of roses on the passenger seat of his car and that's when he kissed me, after he opened the door for me and I said oh and ah at the flowers. I am not saying this guy won't be like my 9 dates no kissing or hand holding guy (really would love to know why the heck was he going out with me, really), but I think give him 3-4 dates before you worry about it.
Zapbasket Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 But the OP has made it clear she’s turned off by a man who needs so much help But that's not "help"--that's making VERY CLEAR that she is receptive to being kissed. Note that she's NOT initiating the main kiss. It's just a soft kiss, on the lips, and then a pulling back to see what he does with this unmistakable (for a normal person) signal. What OP doesn't want to do is TELL him she wants some physical affection or she's going to bounce, because then he might pull out the stops in order not to lose her. The little kiss will reveal what's going on with him in a way that ensures he's acting according to his nature, and not to what he thinks she wants. If he's weak or inexperienced with dating, he might try to be and do what he thinks she wants rather than be himself. The kiss will reveal who HE is. And then if he's all rigid and weird about it, she can break things off with him, knowing 100% he's not right for her. 1
thefooloftheyear Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 But that's not "help"--that's making VERY CLEAR that she is receptive to being kissed. Note that she's NOT initiating the main kiss. It's just a soft kiss, on the lips, and then a pulling back to see what he does with this unmistakable (for a normal person) signal. What OP doesn't want to do is TELL him she wants some physical affection or she's going to bounce, because then he might pull out the stops in order not to lose her. The little kiss will reveal what's going on with him in a way that ensures he's acting according to his nature, and not to what he thinks she wants. If he's weak or inexperienced with dating, he might try to be and do what he thinks she wants rather than be himself. The kiss will reveal who HE is. And then if he's all rigid and weird about it, she can break things off with him, knowing 100% he's not right for her. My guess is he'll have a "Forrest Gump" type of moment, and lose it in his shorts.... TFY 3
JuneL Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 But that's not "help"--that's making VERY CLEAR that she is receptive to being kissed. Note that she's NOT initiating the main kiss. It's just a soft kiss, on the lips, and then a pulling back to see what he does with this unmistakable (for a normal person) signal. What OP doesn't want to do is TELL him she wants some physical affection or she's going to bounce, because then he might pull out the stops in order not to lose her. The little kiss will reveal what's going on with him in a way that ensures he's acting according to his nature, and not to what he thinks she wants. If he's weak or inexperienced with dating, he might try to be and do what he thinks she wants rather than be himself. The kiss will reveal who HE is. And then if he's all rigid and weird about it, she can break things off with him, knowing 100% he's not right for her. That is “help” in my book. I’m with the OP on this one. If he has so much trouble reading cues, then perhaps he’s not for her. Actually if they are both very attracted to other, there should be plenty of opportunity for them to look into each other’s eyes, naturally. 1
Happy Lemming Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 But the OP has made it clear she’s turned off by a man who needs so much help Life isn't perfect and we could all go nuts trying to find our specific "unicorn", that checks every single one of our boxes at the exact time we want them checked. Based on OP's description, he sounds like a pretty good guy. If he checks all of her boxes except this one, and needs a little "jump start" with a small kiss, where is the harm?? 1
BluEyeL Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 My guess is the hot doctor probably enjoyed your company and wasn’t looking to lock you down. I notice that male doctors are way overrated in the dating market, at least in this country. If he’s as hot as you said, I can imagine he had a stream of women throwing at him. Just curious: Had he been married and did he have kids? Yes, he had two kids and had been married a long time. He kept asking me out for every weekend but absolutely no touching, no casual touch of the arm even. I ended up calling him out on it. I asked him what his goals were, was he just interested in being friends? Although I didn't ask him anything about the topics he brought up, he mumbled something like "I'm not gay, and everything works like it should, I have other issues". And also said "let me ask you something. Did you make up your mind about being a relationship with me?". So I guess he was trying to make up his mind whether he wanted to be in a relationship with me and if he as much as touched me on the shoulder it meant we are in a relationship?? Still a mystery about the issues he had. I think you are right, probably had women galore throwing themselves at him, and maybe he wasn't that much into me either. I mean, likely he wasn't into me, although why would you keep spending time with someone you're not into beats me. I let him hang around way too long because he was Romanian, and I live in Indiana, and since I'm Romanian I said heck, I won't find another Romanian man, let's give this a little longer, and a little longer. Maybe that's why he was also hanging out with me. But it was super confusing and frustrating.
Author Ruby Slippers Posted October 8, 2018 Author Posted October 8, 2018 I will never, ever in a million years make the first move on a man. I'd rather get cozy in my old age with my knitting and cats than do that. The latest crop of men messaging me are big, strapping, manly men who seem to bring the throwdown and also seem serious and sweet. Getting warmer all the time. If he asks I'll go out with him again, but I'm not assuming the masculine role, ever. This is how women end up starved for hotness in their marriages and longing for the sexy gardener. 100% wrong for me. 4
BluEyeL Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 I will never, ever in a million years make the first move on a man. I'd rather get cozy in my old age with my knitting and cats than do that. The latest crop of men messaging me are big, strapping, manly men who seem to bring the throwdown and also seem serious and sweet. Getting warmer all the time. If he asks I'll go out with him again, but I'm not assuming the masculine role, ever. This is how women end up starved for hotness in their marriages and longing for the sexy gardener. 100% wrong for me. I think this is a good point. It's not so much that he's not initiating early enough, it's that you would be incompatible.
newyorker11356 Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 I will never, ever in a million years make the first move on a man. I'd rather get cozy in my old age with my knitting and cats than do that. The latest crop of men messaging me are big, strapping, manly men who seem to bring the throwdown and also seem serious and sweet. Getting warmer all the time. If he asks I'll go out with him again, but I'm not assuming the masculine role, ever. This is how women end up starved for hotness in their marriages and longing for the sexy gardener. 100% wrong for me. This is where compatibility comes in. You want a guy to make the first move, whereas the guy himself may prefer you (the woman) making it first. Nobody is wrong here.
Dis Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) I will never, ever in a million years make the first move on a man. I'd rather get cozy in my old age with my knitting and cats than do that. The latest crop of men messaging me are big, strapping, manly men who seem to bring the throwdown and also seem serious and sweet. Getting warmer all the time. If he asks I'll go out with him again, but I'm not assuming the masculine role, ever. This is how women end up starved for hotness in their marriages and longing for the sexy gardener. 100% wrong for me. I get it Ruby. I'd feel the same way. It's one thing if a guy exudes masculinity but waits until maybe the third date to make a move (that's what my bf was like) but it's another thing if he seems like a scared little boy AND can't seem to hold hands or initiate a kiss I would be turned off at a certain point too and like you, I never make the first move. I'm not playing the male role Maybe give him one more date and continue to chat with other guys in the meantime. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. If you're already getting turned off...chances are you might not come back from that Edited October 8, 2018 by Disillusionment373 1
Interstellar Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) Then it's really not a "date" , IMO.. I don't think she's looking to get bent over the sink in the ladies room, but the guy can't even put an arm around her, hold her hand, nothing??...I mean, this is stuff we did when we were 15/16 years old...How the hell would a 40 something year old guy not get this?? I doubt this guy is thinking one bit about #metoo... TFY Okay, but some women are uncomfortable with a guy suddenly putting his arms around her. Where’s the line of demarcation? the line where a guy can’t go any further or he risk turning her off or not to be too passive to the point that he also risks turning her off because he hasn’t done anything physically when in fact he’s inexperience, or just slow. All women are not the same. When should a guy start initiating something? How far is he supposed to go? Is it a peck on the lips? See the thing is even women can’t tell you. You ask different women and you get different answers. They don’t know what they want. At the end of the date, if I’m not sure about her interest level I’ll go for the kiss on the lips at the end of the date. That kiss will tell me everything. You give me the cheek then adios baby. If I get the lips then she gets a second date. Edited October 11, 2018 by Interstellar 1
LastStraw Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 Indeed. I don't think taking things slow is something to worry about. My BF and I started seeing each other one-on-one frequently (I wasn't even sure are we dating because we were friends before), it took maybe **two months** or a little longer to get to first kiss (and first sex soon after). It has been my most stable and fulfilling relationship so far, now approaching a full year. It's amazing the caricatures that people can project. I mentioned he paid because it's one of the few cues I got that it was a date. 100% of the men I've dated have paid, no matter how many times I've offered. I stay out of the "who should pay?" threads because for me and the men I like to date, it's a non-issue. Everybody else, y'all have fun fighting it out. Metoo is a wild tangent. I've had 4 first dates in the past month or so, and metoo didn't stop the other three from touching legs under the table, holding hands, or kissing at the end of the date. I'm no longer thinking about his level of contact, just diving into fun new activities and enjoying life.
gaius Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 Depends on what you're looking for. And if it's a passionate relationship then yeah, this guys probably a dud. I couldn't stop myself from kissing my wife for the first time if I tried. The very I instant I sensed she was ready for it my hand was on the back of her neck and our lips were together.
LeaCat55 Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 I get the feeling he was just being polite, and didn't want to scare you away. He also sounds very charming and respectable. I would just keep doing what you're doing. We are from different generations (I'm 24), but I personally am always relieved when I guy isn't pawing at me on the first few dates. When they do that's usually my first clue that they just want to jump under the sheets, and I haven't been wrong yet about that intuition.
newyorker11356 Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 I get the feeling he was just being polite, and didn't want to scare you away. He also sounds very charming and respectable. I would just keep doing what you're doing. We are from different generations (I'm 24), but I personally am always relieved when I guy isn't pawing at me on the first few dates. When they do that's usually my first clue that they just want to jump under the sheets, and I haven't been wrong yet about that intuition. No one is saying that they should be pawing at you like crazy, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with a little touching to show you're interested.
lavenderandvelvet Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 No one is saying that they should be pawing at you like crazy, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with a little touching to show you're interested. Yeah, I tend to take it as a sig they aren’t interested. I am looking out for things like guiding you through the door with a hand on your shoulder or back. Touching you in the arm and lingering to make a point. Small touching that let’s you test out the waters.
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