Artdeco Posted October 6, 2018 Posted October 6, 2018 True. If I have to tell a guy to please hold my hand... We haven't talked about relationship history at all, just focused on who we are and what we want in life. Other than this issue, I don't get the impression he's inexperienced, but I guess how would I know, really? He's an attractive guy, looks good, stylish in a relaxed way that I like, even started working with a trainer a while back. His arms are amazing, love his masculine frame. I do get the impression he's very professionally accomplished, consumed with his career, and not long ago started a creative side business that's taking off. He also seems to have a very active social life, goes out with friends almost every day. Anyway, time will tell. Sounds like he’s keeping his distance for a reason, eg he might not be sure if he wants to keep dating you in the future, he doesn’t know if he’s attracted to you, he has other options he wants to keep open, there’s somebody else in the background that he’s not sure of (an ex, or (another) love interest maybe), etc.etc. The list is endless. But something is holding him back.
JuneL Posted October 6, 2018 Posted October 6, 2018 I thought you already have another date on Sat planned, no? I wouldn't want to talk about it at this point. He is who he is, and discussing where he's falling short isn't going to change that. I think it's best to accept someone as he is, then take it or leave it. Maybe if there's another date. I am starting to feel weird about him spending money on nice dates when I already know this is an issue, so it probably won't be long before I speak up. I've figured out I'm both highly cerebral and highly physical - lifelong athletic tennis player, and I've learned how important it is to spend as much time in my body as in my head. I like and need a man who gets that, too. He may just be too in his head for me. Definktely, if I reach the point where I'm ready to walk away, I'll communicate this to him somehow. I'm a big believer in being 100% honest - and tactful - about what's not working, so he has all the info and can adjust if he wants to, either with me or the next woman. 1
JuneL Posted October 6, 2018 Posted October 6, 2018 (edited) So does practically every woman on Earth...I don't know what the deal is, but this sounds a lot like the guy NoGo was dealing with some time ago...These guys don't have any internal male guidance on what to do with a woman...IIRC, she went on a number of dates with the guy and he acted a lot like this guy... Sounds like you don't want to be the advisor/teacher here...I don't blame you... TFY Yeah, he reminded me of No Go’s peter pan too I have yet to meet a never-married no-kid man in his 40s who is not a peter pan or a smooth player (the latter is ruled out by his lack of physical move). I can actually tell the difference between a man being respectful and one with “issues”. OP: Is he at least very attentive to you? If not, I’m getting a gay vibe here... Edited October 6, 2018 by JuneL 1
MaleIntuition Posted October 6, 2018 Posted October 6, 2018 He's that inexperienced at 46??? Sure, why not? He might have been in long term relationship for most of his life, and he is behaving according to how he believes women want him to behave. Just look at the first pages in this thread, almost all women encouraged op to keep seeing him. It’s not like these things makes any sense . 1
snowcones Posted October 6, 2018 Posted October 6, 2018 He is either just being respectful, in which case you can go out with him a few more times and see if the touching increases, or he is the type to never be the one to put any moves on a woman because he's waiting for her to do it first. I say give it some time and enjoy getting to know each other. You will know soon whether you want to continue with him or not.
alphamale Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 He's that inexperienced at 46??? there are lots of people of both sexes who are inexperienced at that age. 1
greymatter Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 It could be any number of things, and you won't know unless you keep seeing him, which it sounds like you might be losing interest in?
Author Ruby Slippers Posted October 7, 2018 Author Posted October 7, 2018 I'm fine to keep going out on these friend vibe dates. He's very smart and interesting, comes up with awesome date ideas, fun and original, right up my alley. But I feel weird with him paying for them while I'm aware something big is missing. I've offered to pay for things several times and he always insists on paying. Anyway, I'll wait and see if he even asks me out again before crossing that bridge.
Sunlight72 Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 He's that inexperienced at 46???Yes. I'm 46, and counting first dates that have led to more than 2 total dates, I've had exactly 5 first dates in my life. I haven't kissed before the 3rd date, except with a woman I knew about a year before we dated. I feel quite shy to hold hands before the third or fourth date. Kissing, intimate touching and sex are still very private, uncommon situations for me. I would say I personally know many men in my age bracket that feel similarly. Most of them are married, or have all but given up dating as unnavigable though. I know this is the skewed environment of the internet and Loveshack, but I am still surprised so many people expect less thought and more action so early in adult dating. My goal, and that of most of my male friends, is to meet someone we would enjoy spending years or possibly the rest of our lives with, and if we get that feeling after a few weeks or several dates, then it moves to kissing and sex, and we date or marry for months or years following. People are all different. I'm still learning.
elaine567 Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 I do not mean the heavy breathing/tongue down the throat/hands on the boobs and butt stuff on dates but there are many ways of touching that will not invoke a startle response in anyone, but will show some interest respect and care. This is an apparently 46yo, cultured, educated guy and he is adopting a total hands off approach which seems slightly strange as these are dates not business meetings. 2
Interstellar Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 We have a great time together, but I feel at this rate he's going to feel more and more like a friend. I'll see him again if he asks, but if another good man with a little throwdown appears, I'm sure I'll be heavily swayed. I haven't had sex in a year, dying to get it on, not into casual but feeling inclined lately, and this is only making me want a primal physical experience more. Still, he's a cool guy. I'm glad to know him in any case! Jesus, because he’d rather keep his hands to himself and show you a fun time. This is also the #metoo era you know. 1
thefooloftheyear Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 Jesus, because he’d rather keep his hands to himself and show you a fun time. This is also the #metoo era you know. Then it's really not a "date" , IMO.. I don't think she's looking to get bent over the sink in the ladies room, but the guy can't even put an arm around her, hold her hand, nothing??...I mean, this is stuff we did when we were 15/16 years old...How the hell would a 40 something year old guy not get this?? I doubt this guy is thinking one bit about #metoo... TFY
alphamale Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 ...How the hell would a 40 something year old guy not get this?? good question tfoty
Logo Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 Also once more refused to let me pay for anything, even a round of drinks, which I guess makes it a date? Where did this norm come from? The man has to pay for everything to make it a date? What happens when a couple start seeing each other on a regular basis and the woman is already used to the man paying? I suppose setting boundaries and expectations early on have just gone out the window. Nothing personal, but it's a great time to be a woman these days. On the one hand there's this whole national discussion about equal pay, about equal rights and shattering proverbial glass ceiling, and on the other hand the man has to pay and pay for a date to count as a date. So we're back to olden times when the man was seen and expected to be the provider, but at the same time, how dare he consider himself the provider when a woman can be just as independent and take care of herself and provide for herself. My contradictions meter is at 11. Again, nothing personal, just a general commentary on society. 1
NuevoYorko Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 True. If I have to tell a guy to please hold my hand... We haven't talked about relationship history at all, just focused on who we are and what we want in life. Other than this issue, I don't get the impression he's inexperienced, but I guess how would I know, really? He's an attractive guy, looks good, stylish in a relaxed way that I like, even started working with a trainer a while back. His arms are amazing, love his masculine frame. . Could be that he's simply not attracted to you in "that way."
guest569 Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 Nothing personal, but it's a great time to be a woman these days. On the one hand there's this whole national discussion about equal pay, about equal rights and shattering proverbial glass ceiling, and on the other hand the man has to pay and pay for a date to count as a date. Before you declare it a great day to be a woman. Think for half a second about why we are discussing equal pay, equal rights and the glass ceiling, think about why there is a #metoo movement. I really don't think OP is demanding that he pay. She is trying to work out whether the guy is into her. So shove your sexist rant because men having to fish out $5 for a drink on a date is nothing compared to centuries of women being oppressed in every corner of society in every part of their lives. You can rest assured than OP is not going to single handedly destroy all the feminist movements and progress made by analysing whether or not this man paying has any significance. 5
Zapbasket Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 Before you declare it a great day to be a woman. Think for half a second about why we are discussing equal pay, equal rights and the glass ceiling, think about why there is a #metoo movement. I really don't think OP is demanding that he pay. She is trying to work out whether the guy is into her. So shove your sexist rant because men having to fish out $5 for a drink on a date is nothing compared to centuries of women being oppressed in every corner of society in every part of their lives. You can rest assured than OP is not going to single handedly destroy all the feminist movements and progress made by analysing whether or not this man paying has any significance. PREACH IT SISTER!!! I want this silkscreened on a t-shirt. Someone said above that probably this guy isn't thinking one bit about the #metoo movement. I hope he IS thinking about it. I hope every man thinks about it when they're out on dates. Not to where they get tangled up in confusion about how to be and what to say, but just to pause to consider the woman beyond an object for their own emotional / sexual / egoistic gratification. OP, unless you've completely lost interest, I'd give this guy a little more time. One question: how does he look at you? I can always see in a guy's eyes that he admires me. When it's intellectually there's a way guys' eyes light up and focus more intently on me after something I say. When it's physically their eyes have a kind of shine and dance and they follow me everywhere. When it's both their eyes are so alive, their look lights me up. Maybe next date, when he gives you the initial hug and goes to pull away, prevent him, and just give him a slow, soft, guileless kiss, closed mouthed, on his lips. You'll find out right away what he's made of. If he's a closet "go-getter" like you like, he will not hesitate to take the bait, and the lead as he returns your kiss ten-fold. If he freezes or acts uncomfortable, there's your opening to address what's going on: "Did I just make you uncomfortable?" you can ask. "What is it?" 2
Logo Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) Before you declare it a great day to be a woman. Think for half a second about why we are discussing equal pay, equal rights and the glass ceiling, think about why there is a #metoo movement. I really don't think OP is demanding that he pay. She is trying to work out whether the guy is into her. So shove your sexist rant because men having to fish out $5 for a drink on a date is nothing compared to centuries of women being oppressed in every corner of society in every part of their lives. You can rest assured than OP is not going to single handedly destroy all the feminist movements and progress made by analysing whether or not this man paying has any significance. Reactionary much? See, you can even get away with writing, "shove your sexist rant" without the moderator deleting your comment or anyone piling on and calling you out on it. But I digress. Now normally I wouldn't engage someone who throws out a comment like that, but here's the bottom line; you took my comment out of context and just ran with it because it's convenient for your to slap on the "sexist" label and be done with it. It doesn't require any intellectual effort or understanding on your part. I clearly wrote it has nothing to do with the original poster. So here's $5. Go buy yourself a bottle of icedtea. It sounds like you need it. Now, think for a moment that perhaps what you labeled a "rant" -- which was actually an inquiry -- comes from experience. I used to spend hundreds of dollars on dates and girlfriends until I realized that everyone and her uncle wants to be treated equally except when it comes to old fashioned norms and customs. Then, suddenly, equality among all becomes passe and being burned over and over is okay, because hey, a man has to show that it's a date. So excuse me if I prefer that everyone receive and give equal treatment. And keep throwing around intellectually lazy labels instead of understanding the argument first. It'll serve you well in life. At this point, you sound more of an ideologue than anything else. Edited October 8, 2018 by Logo
MaleIntuition Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 Before you declare it a great day to be a woman. Think for half a second about why we are discussing equal pay, equal rights and the glass ceiling, think about why there is a #metoo movement. I really don't think OP is demanding that he pay. She is trying to work out whether the guy is into her. So shove your sexist rant because men having to fish out $5 for a drink on a date is nothing compared to centuries of women being oppressed in every corner of society in every part of their lives. You can rest assured than OP is not going to single handedly destroy all the feminist movements and progress made by analysing whether or not this man paying has any significance. The mind boggling part is that an overwhelming amount of girls on these boards fail to see that the norm of the man paying comes from the exact same historical “patriarchal society” structure as literally all inequalities you today want to change: Dependency on a man. Can you change one, without the other? I doubt it.
guest569 Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 The mind boggling part is that an overwhelming amount of girls on these boards fail to see that the norm of the man paying comes from the exact same historical “patriarchal society” structure as literally all inequalities you today want to change: Dependency on a man. Can you change one, without the other? I doubt it. You missed the point tho.. All of these things persist.
MaleIntuition Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 You missed the point tho.. All of these things persist. Indeed. My point is that girls can be a part of the solution by splitting the bill.
thefooloftheyear Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 Someone said above that probably this guy isn't thinking one bit about the #metoo movement. I hope he IS thinking about it. I hope every man thinks about it when they're out on dates. Not to where they get tangled up in confusion about how to be and what to say, but just to pause to consider the woman beyond an object for their own emotional / sexual / egoistic gratification. Oh Christ,.. gimme a break. I've had female customers/clients show more affection to me and get more physical than this guy and it was just a greeting... If he's worried about metoo at that point then he's clearly more of a clueless doofus than I am even imagining him to be... TFY 1
elaine567 Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 We don't need to get into an argument about who pays. The man here IS paying, so it is assumed he is adopting the traditional male/female role on these dates. It is still assumed that splitting the bill on early dates is a sign of non interest, but that is not the case here. Until men refuse to pay for dates or women refuse to let them then this "norm" is going nowhere. Some people both men and women are very happy with traditional roles some are not. There are no strict rules on the subject, no legislation, it is down to individual choice. Live and let live. 2
BluEyeL Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 I understand the fretting, and I understand that other men go physical earlier, but again, there are many many men that do not get physical early. Most men I've dated were like that. My husband kissed me at the 7th date and we had sex after 3 months of dating. I'm not saying this is also the norm, just that it really isn't the end of the world if the guy doesn't get physical at the first few dates, if he shows interest in other ways, i.e. by asking you out. And yes, paying is a sign of interest too!
BluEyeL Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 On the same token, if this relationship goes forward, you should pay attention if the guy is in general physically affectionate or not. If you need a lot of physical affection, watch for that later on.
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