Married and Lonely

[allenfrank194]

I'll try to keep this short...that didn't happen.

 

I am a 57 yo male in a 20 yo romanceless marriage. We live in the SF Bay Area and have a 13 yo boy.

 

I am a very romantic man who loves sensuality and prolonged love making sessions with my partner. I'm not a wham bam thank you ma'am sort of guy...never have been. When we first started dating we had this to a degree, but being honest with you...it was never great.

 

She seems to think that sex is a race to an orgasm for both parties. I've talked to her about this many times, encouraging her to slow down and enjoy each other. To no avail.

 

Without getting into TMI, I make sure she is satisfied at least twice every time we have our fun. Unfortunately it has always been this race to climax and done in 10-12 minutes, at first, maybe once a week.

 

After we had a child, now 13 years ago, it got worse. She became a mom...period! Her entire being became being a great mom and homemaker. She completely ignored our relationship and romance. At first, I understood and didn't make a big deal out of it. But after a few years of that I expressed that being married is not just about being parents and if she continued to ignore our romance it will dwindle to nothing.

 

She ignored me.

 

We went through a ton of financial stress during the financial meltdown in 2008.

 

In 2013 we tragically lost a friend to a heart attack. I went to the funeral alone. His wife/widow stood up at the after party and was very emotional. She said a few things, but stopped and did her best to collect her emotions so she could tearfully say, "Ladies, I have a message for you. Love your man. Be careful ignoring your man. I'm telling you, love your man. Go home after this party and make sweet love to your man and do so every day you possibly can."

 

It turns out that they were having similar problems. He died before she could do something about it. I told my wife about this and she ignored it.

 

I would still try to set up romantic times for us. Dates. Massages. Shower time. Trips. She wasn't interested in most of it and when she did it seemed it was just to go along. One time when our boy was at friends on a sleepover I set up "camp" on the floor in front of the fireplace and got a movie ready. I suggested we get naked under the covers to watch. She said she was fine dressed. Just one example.

 

I would go to bed by myself night after night after night while she would watch TV and fall asleep on the couch, only to come to bed after I'd fall asleep. I'd go out and ask her to come to bed. Sometime she would, sometimes she wouldn't. When she would 3/4 times she didn't want to do anything with me anyway. There was always a reason/excuse.

 

Our love making became 1-2x/month, 10 minutes, same way, same place, same time, in the dark.

 

I became very lonely, sad and on the verge of deeply depressed. I lost a ton of self esteem. I am the type that looks at myself first before pointing fingers at others. This has impacted my work, my home duties taking care of the house, my activity level (I stay home a lot).

 

What did I do? How did I fail us? Am I just old? Am I just ugly? Do I smell? Am I gross to think of getting naked and naughty with? Will I just be alone? I have done a lot of crying.

 

We went to counseling. The therapist asked her if she had any bad experiences or had any issues that he should be aware of. She was insistent that was not an issue whatsoever.

 

At one of our sessions (our last), she actually looked at the therapist and asked, "Why is it (intimacy) such a big deal? Why is it so important? I don't get it."

 

He was obviously taken aback by her question. He went on to explain how this creates the bond and connection in a loving relationship and is sharing of oneself and ones emotions beyond anything.

 

She had to leave for work while I paid. The therapist just shook my hand and put his hand on my shoulder and said he understood why I was upset but encouraged me to not give up hope. But if I do, I should leave.

 

New year's eve, 2015/16 I wanted to make love...she fell asleep. When we did a few days later, when we were done I looked down on her and said, "Sweetie, my resolution for this year is to make love to you twice as much as last year". Her immediate innate response was a visible slump of her shoulders. Again, trying not to get to TMI,...what a deflator.

 

I've not tried to initiate sex ever since.

 

Other things have happened and have been said that make it apparent to me she is a cold woman who does not share her inner feelings, which would certainly prevent a person from opening up and being vulnerable sexually.

 

I warned her that I would not live the rest of my life like this. I am too young, too healthy, too virile and love love, romance and intimacy too much.

 

I have become VERY lonely. All of our friends are related to our son, his school, his sports, etc. I cannot talk to anyone about any of this.

 

I had an affair. She found out by me accidentally leaving an email up on my computer. She asked me to work on things and stop the affair.

 

I did.

 

We had sex a couple of times since then, but my feelings are gone. Perhaps I'm the strange guy in this world that can't have sex with someone repeatedly and not have feelings for them. It's sad.

 

My wife is one of the most beautiful, sexy, nice, sweet people I've ever met, but that doesn't mean she's a good mate/lover...at least for me.

 

I also had to stop the affair because I was falling for her. Again, I can't get naked and naughty with someone over and over again and not develop feelings and care.

 

My wife and I are now just roommates. Our son has to see it. Personally, I am struggling to keep myself together and not be completely depressed and hurt my work/company.

 

I plan to leave or ask her to leave early 2019.

I'm scared and worried for my boy.

I'm scared and worried for my wife.

I'm scared and worried for myself.

 

Who'd of thunk you could be so lonely while you're married and living with your spouse? Terrible situation!

 

Thanks for "listening".

Feel free to share your experience and thoughts.

Edited September 24, 2018 by allenfrank194
Typo

[nospam99]

I don't usually 'talk' about my 'back story' but ... been there, done that. We stayed together for the sake of the kids. Finally settled the divorce after 4+ years 'negotiating' WITH lawyers about a year and a half ago. I'm still the kids' more-engaged parent. My biggest regret is that now, at age 64, just based on what I see in my searches on OLD it seems like it's a bit more difficult to find a 'good woman' than if I was, say, 5 years younger. No advice, OP, just sympathy.

[allenfrank194]

I was never fat, but I had stopped my routine. I got back into it and changed my diet. I lost 25 pounds, but I have to say, it wasn't the weight loss that was the difference. I changed my body and am very fit and firm now. I actually have abs I've never had before.

 

Our friends have commented about it and how great I look. People at work have commented at how great I look and ask how I did it. My wife was ho hum, good for you sweetie. You'd think she'd say wow sweetie, let me crawl all over that and show you how proud I am of you...NO.

[d0nnivain]

Have you ever tried telling her that you are lonely & that your next step is divorce court?

 

You are probably never going to get the long slow love making you desire but you might be able to up the frequency

[FMW]

Make sure she understands that you are at the end of your rope, that if things don't change you will be moving to end the marriage in a few months. That way she can't say she was blind-sided and you will know you tried.

 

There are people, including on this forum, who feel that sex is over-rated and genuinely just don't get what the problem is if it goes away after a while, and use children and other responsibilities as excuses to see it as their partner being unreasonable. Your wife sounds like she falls into this category.

 

Marriages can most definitely be very lonely situations when you are missing key elements of what should be between two people in such a relationship. That loneliness has a bigger impact because your partner should be your main source of belonging and acceptance. My 23 year marriage was lonely for at least the last half of it. My biggest regret is not ending it sooner.

 

It's a difficult and serious decision to make, but it seems like you've done the soul searching and made repeated attempts to change things.

[Artdeco]

As a woman, I personally feel like having sex only if I am feeling completely comfortable with myself, ie I look good, I feel good, my weight is at a level that I “need” it to be, etc. I’m very particular when it comes to that, but I think, to a less extreme degree, this is true for most women. Not sure about your W. Just food for thought.

 

I’ve also always had the problem that sex got “boring” and less interesting after a few years with the same partner. It’s really nobody’s fault. Eg.: i had a boyfriend in the past who was kind of like you. He wanted it long, romantic, passionate, frequently; while I found that flattering in the beginning (and I was a very willing participant, probably more than your wife, based on your story), it became way too much for me at some point (a few years in).

I didn’t want it that often and I didn’t want it to take that long either. Unfortunately, sex became one more thing to do. And I did love him. We eventually broke up for several reasons (irrelevant to this thread), and I’m now in a long-term-relationship again, hoping the sex is sustainable at a level that my partner is happy with. He really wants it all the time, though, and it’s hard to find a compromise here, because somebody will always feel rejected.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I was never fat, but I had stopped my routine. I got back into it and changed my diet. I lost 25 pounds, but I have to say, it wasn't the weight loss that was the difference. I changed my body and am very fit and firm now. I actually have abs I've never had before.

 

Our friends have commented about it and how great I look. People at work have commented at how great I look and ask how I did it. My wife was ho hum, good for you sweetie. You'd think she'd say wow sweetie, let me crawl all over that and show you how proud I am of you...NO.

 

YOU'D think that because you have a high/normal sex drive. She doesn't, and never has it sounds like. It sounds like you've always been mismatched in this area. You probably can't change her unless they come out with a pill for women that actually works to increase libido.

[Mardelis]

Without getting into TMI, I make sure she is satisfied at least twice every time we have our fun. Unfortunately it has always been this race to climax and done in 10-12 minutes, at first, maybe once a week.

 

Not seeing a problem with sex lasting 10-12 minutes. I've read surveys and the average is about 15 minutes give or take. I think there's some threads on this forum about that. Some people don't need even that much. If was up to me it would be about 5 minutes but I'm with her as long as it takes to satisfy her which might be as much as 15-20 minutes. No one is complaining about the time.

 

e were done I looked down on her and said, "Sweetie, my resolution for this year is to make love to you twice as much as last year". Her immediate innate response was a visible slump of her shoulders. Again, trying not to get to TMI,...what a deflator.

 

I cannot begin to wrap my head around why you would say something like this to a woman who is already reluctant to have sex with you in the first place! It's like a total disconnect. Put yourself in her shoes. Think of something you can tolerate but don't want to do all that much. Then imagine the person saying it will be their goal for the new year to do it to you twice as much as ever before. You think they want to hear that?

 

You think their response is going to be positive? What do you expect to gain by saying that? At the very least you're rather insensitive and selfish- it's about you and what you want- not what she wants and at worse you're completely out of touch with her feelings which may be the root of the real problems in the relationship.

Edited September 24, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix spacing

[central]

As far as I can tell from reading similar stories online, and my own experience, about 1% of people in this situation find a satisfactory solution within their existing relationship.

 

IMO, if you try everything for a year, and nothing significant changes, you move on. Yes, divorce. Learn from the experience, and prioritize what you want in any new relationship (no doubt love, affection, and sex will be very important!). Then persist in seeking that until you find someone who has those traits, And then you must date her for at least 2 years before making anything permanent (not that you need to take that step), to be sure that the relationship traits remain stable and sustainable.

 

That is exactly what I did after ending a 24 year sexless marriage. My son was about the age of yours. I went on to find a marvelous new relationship, and my example was good for my son, as well. He got to see what a healthy and loving relationship really looks like. (YMMV)

[thefooloftheyear]

YOU'D think that because you have a high/normal sex drive. She doesn't, and never has it sounds like. It sounds like you've always been mismatched in this area. You probably can't change her unless they come out with a pill for women that actually works to increase libido.

 

 

Oh,,,there are options..If they don't mind the facial and chest hair, back acne, deeper voice and increased muscle mass, some testosterone injections would surely wake her up...

 

But I agree with you....This will seemingly never work, its not a priority and what little she is giving is probably just to keep him quiet...Plus. you don't want to "force" someone into complying in this area....That would be pretty miserable..

 

Tough deal, OP..

 

TFY

[allenfrank194]

Thank you for your comments and feedback.

 

To answer a couple of comments...

I don't expect every love making session to be the prolonged sensual experience I describe. BUT, I also don't expect to go 10 years with only sex 1-2 times/month with each at 10 minutes of wham bam thank you ma'am/sir.

 

Wow, I guess I'm a bad guy for feeling so good about my W and our lovemaking after new years that I looked down at her at that moment and wished for more. We had so much fun and connected so well that I wanted more of that for both of us...yes, I must be a real selfish person. Some how I'm a bad insensitive jerk for that? OK, way to twist that around.

 

Love making 1-2 times per month is simply not an active healthy sex life and will do nothing to create the necessary bonds in a health relationship to get you though the tough times.

 

I agree, people do not change. Especially about sex. If someone has hangups, fears or turn-offs...the chances they stop or change are slim-to-none.

 

Once I realized this is just her, I've stopped complaining or trying to change her any more. I don't hate her for it either. She's just not into it, or me or something has happened that she won't fess up to.

 

That doesn't mean I have to live the rest of my life this way either.

[central]

Oh,,,there are options..If they don't mind the facial and chest hair, back acne, deeper voice and increased muscle mass, some testosterone injections would surely wake her up...

 

Yes, if she went on testosterone, that might solve things - he wouldn't be attracted to her, most likely.

[Mardelis]

Wow, I guess I'm a bad guy for feeling so good about my W and our lovemaking after new years that I looked down at her at that moment and wished for more. We had so much fun and connected so well that I wanted more of that for both of us...yes, I must be a real selfish person. Some how I'm a bad insensitive jerk for that? OK, way to twist that around.

 

 

Not twisting anything. YOU are really into the lovemaking. SHE clearly is not. For you to say "We're going to do this TWICE as much after the New Year" when it's clearly NOT what she wants is putting your needs ahead of yours. You may feel like you're both connecting very well but obviously she does not.

 

 

 

You need to focus on why she doesn't want as much sex as you, not focus on doing more of it without changing anything about it. It's rather surprising that you don't see your words and actions as being selfish. Its sort of like a person who has been dumped saying "I'm not going to leave her because I love her so much, rather than accept being dumped I'm going to spend even more time with her".

[allenfrank194]

Thanks for taking the time, I mean that sincerely...but it seems you are her and she is you, so of course you will rationalize.

 

I don't feel selfish to desire a healthy active sex life in a marriage. No, I don't.

Is it not selfish to expect a lover to live with virtually no intimacy???

 

Especially when I've shown so much patience and caring to try to figure it out, talk about it and/or try to do what it take to improve it.

 

After 10 years of that, I don't think it's selfish to ask for and expect more, or make my decision to do what I have to do to be a happy/healthy person.

 

This situation is not healthy for our son either.

No matter how one chooses to attempt to rationalize this, this is simply not normal.

[preraph]

The least sexy thing on earth is someone putting pressure on you for sex. You say you're lonely, but lonely isn't about not getting sex. Look, after being married that long, your frequency isn't unusual.

 

How do you think it makes a woman who's been with you forever feel to know that your very first priority is sex; that the truth is even though you claim to love her, what you call love comes distant second to getting sex and you'll throw it all away for sex. Well, you already did when you cheated. Glad you're doing counseling, but I got to tell you, if your therapist thinks a woman can be talked into either servicing you or he can wave a magic wand and she'll feel like 19 again and be thrilled by you like when you first met, he's not much of a therapist.

 

Maybe time will solve this issue or make it moot. I have a friend who always wanted sex more than her husband did and there was always hurt feelings and tension between them. He never acted normal or at all affectionate toward her when I was around. Then last year I noticed him acting affectionate toward her for the first time I'd seen and I later commented on it. She told me they both finally reached the point neither of them wants sex anymore, so they've stopped fighting and are getting along a lot better.

 

I hope you work it out. But I suggest you take care of your own needs frequently so things don't build up and escalate.

[Whodatdog]

Any way you cut it, its a very sad situation, and even sadder that it has gone on this long. No one should have to stay in a miserable relationship, and it seems you have long enough. I have little hope she will change. Good luck.

[preraph]

^ It's not a miserable relationship. It's a nice little family except that his main priority is sex. But you're right, it is a sad situation.

[Mardelis]

Thanks for taking the time, I mean that sincerely...but it seems you are her and she is you, so of course you will rationalize.

 

 

Dude, I am not her, and she is not me. I'm a guy, in a healthy long term committed relationship with both of us enjoying sex with one another on a regular frequency and we both find it satisfying.

 

 

 

I'm not rationalizing anything but I find it interesting that your only response to my posts are that I am doing just that. I'm just trying to help and I'll tell you this much- if you continue to perpetuate the whole "You are rationalizing and wrong, and I am the right and normal one" and continue to force or at least pressure her for sex twice as often you are not going to get results that you are happy with.

 

 

 

 

I don't feel selfish to desire a healthy active sex life in a marriage. No, I don't.

 

 

The selfish part is pressuring her to acquiese to your desire for more sex when it's not something SHE wants. The selfish part is not trying to work on the underlying problems that have led to her not wanting to have sex with you and thinking you have some sort of natural right to sex as much as you want it, simply because you exchanged vows.

 

 

Especially when I've shown so much patience and caring to try to figure it out, talk about it and/or try to do what it take to improve it.

 

 

As far as you're concerned, you've tried to care and you've tried to practice and youv'e tried to figure it out- and you've done enough. Now it's her turn to up the frequency regardless of the fact that nothing has improved for her. Have you gone to therapy? Seen a sexual therapist counselor? If not then you clearly have not tried everything.

 

 

After 10 years of that, I don't think it's selfish to ask for and expect more, or make my decision to do what I have to do to be a happy/healthy person.

 

 

Well yeah, it sort of is, especially when you're making yourself happy and healthy at the expense of another person who is CLEARLY unhappy.

 

 

This situation is not healthy for our son either.

 

This isn't about your son.

[allenfrank194]

Preaph...you're not getting it.

 

If sex was my priority I would have left 10 years ago.

 

You're comment offended me and is way off base.

Please go back and reread my original post and try not to be so judgmental of others. It's not flattering.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

No matter how one chooses to attempt to rationalize this, this is simply not normal.

 

Yes it is. It's normal for HER. You just don't accept her normal. So be it.

 

But the answer is not to cheat on her. You can't justify that for any reason.

[FMW]

OP, you are not wrong for wanting/needing to connect with her with sex. She's not wrong for how she feels. The issue is you two are not compatible.

 

I completely get it - I want to spend time on sex, touching and kissing and looking into my partner's eyes. That's what I need and want to feel connected. I need a partner who gets that and feels the same way. Unless my partner has a medical reason for not being able to participate in this way, I would feel disconnected and rejected.

 

But as my first response noted, others do not feel that way and cannot relate. Your wife is obviously one of them. She needs/wants something different.

[SteadyPace]

Have you ever tried telling her that you are lonely & that your next step is divorce court?

 

You are probably never going to get the long slow love making you desire but you might be able to up the frequency

 

This is what I did.. 5 weeks in to marriage counseling and we will see how it goes..

[allenfrank194]

Thank you all.

 

Perhaps I’m taking the word selfish too hard.

All one can do is ask for what they want and give up control of the outcome.

 

I wasn’t selfish for a long time but have reached my limit and want more.

 

It is true that o should have not ignored this issues from the start.

 

Sad is the right word. My boy is wonderful and doing GREAT.

 

My W knows it’s not going to work and will not be nasty. She’s just not that mean of a person. Don’t get me wrong. There will be our share of emotions and arguments but I’ll be shocked if she gets nasty or uses our boy as a pawn.

 

Again, I don’t/won’t demonize her because we are no longer compatible. She’s a good person.

[central]

My W knows it’s not going to work and will not be nasty. She’s just not that mean of a person. Don’t get me wrong. There will be our share of emotions and arguments but I’ll be shocked if she gets nasty or uses our boy as a pawn.

 

Again, I don’t/won’t demonize her because we are no longer compatible. She’s a good person.

 

I though the same of my ex. Mostly, it was true. However, there may be some issues that get out of hand, so stay reasonable and patient. My ex got greedy, and I had to wait her out, until she realized that delaying further only hurt her. Then things went along fairly smoothly. Hopefully, you'll have an even easier time.

[snowboy91]

So I do partially agree with some others here - putting pressure on for sex can feel smothering and can kill the mood.

 

But these are the parts of the post that stood out for me:

 

I would still try to set up romantic times for us. Dates. Massages. Shower time. Trips. She wasn't interested in most of it and when she did it seemed it was just to go along. One time when our boy was at friends on a sleepover I set up "camp" on the floor in front of the fireplace and got a movie ready. I suggested we get naked under the covers to watch. She said she was fine dressed. Just one example.

 

...

 

At one of our sessions (our last), she actually looked at the therapist and asked, "Why is it (intimacy) such a big deal? Why is it so important? I don't get it."

 

 

If she's not enjoying any time you two spend together, then the relationship is basically on life support. It seems that whatever you're doing to try and show love and affection isn't getting through to her, and she's given up putting in effort a while ago. It's definitely worth trying to work out why she's no longer receptive to your affection, but I doubt that it can be fixed once you work it out. The two of you just aren't compatible and probably haven't been for a really long time.

 

As for your son, I know you want to keep the family together for his sake, but I'll put it to you another way. As he goes through his teenage years and watches you and your wife interact, the indifference between you two is going to impact on how he perceives romantic relationships. As someone whose parents hid a separation from me for years, I can say that I would have strongly preferred to know at the time rather than assume that obvious ambivalence was just normal in a long term relationship. It will be stressful for your son in the short term, but longer term I hope he will see that it's better to leave a bad relationship than to stay in one. And if you and your wife can be civil about custody, it's not going to impact on him as much as you imagine.