The Lost Guide to No Contact V5

[lost_in_chgo]

Who does this guy think he is?

These are my thoughts. I'm not a doctor, I'm not your shrink, I'm not your friend, but I am trying to help you like others helped me. I am an anonymous (or semi-anonymous) person on the Internet. These are just some thoughts for you. They have been gathered from the thoughts of a lot of other people on this board, and some other places on the net, mixed up in a 1 quart saucepan and poured all over this and other pages. Let them bake in your brain for awhile, you might like the taste when they are done.

 

No doubt the metaphors will wear on you, but try to deal with it. I think they're cute and I'm writing this so I get to have my way.

 

Quick Notes of Interest

This text - - NEW - - indicates sections that have been materially updated since V4.

 

On the use of they and them here: Them is what I have chosen to use instead of him/her. It's simpler and friendlier than it. I will also use the ex interchangeably when and how I see fit.

 

What's no contact?

"No Contact" is the practice of eliminating contact with your ex to stabilize an emotional relationship and establish some boundaries. This doesn't mean being an ass to your ex. It means eliminating as much contact as possible. Playing hard to get, if you will. Letting things settle down so that you can either move on or come together in a rational, calm way.

 

No Contact is not something that you announce to the other person. It is something that you do, how you live your life. Do not make a proclamation about how you are intending to manage them or you will undo everything you are working toward.

 

No Contact allows you to reach some emotional stability. It also has the possible benefit of making your ex aware that you can function with out them.

 

- - NEW - - Moving On

This forum is called Second Chances, however you will invariably see replies to Second Chances messages answered with advice to Just move on. That advice, while well meaning, is probably more attuned to the coping forums. However, this idea of No Contact has two outcomes or intents: moving on and getting over your ex, and dealing with an ex that is AWOL and presenting a strong front to win them back. Moving on or getting back together are the possible outcome to the broken relationship. Getting back together is rare, but don't let Move On be the only advice you hear. There are those here, though in the minority, who believe that Second Chances are possible. Often quoted are unreferenced statistics indicating that all long term relationships experience a breakup of some sort at some point. This implies that Second Chances are the norm rather than the rarity, but your particular situation will tell you more about that than I can.

 

- - NEW - - Perspective?

This is written from a male perspective, no doubt the ladies will disagree with some of it, though I have tried as much as the testosterone will allow, to incorporate all of the feedback I have received in this version. There is also the extreme macho male viewpoint, which is not represented here, which will tell you that no woman is worth any of your time except for sex. And also that if you are emotionally strong No Contact is a no-brainer, which of course fails to take into account that you did not leave your girlfriends house immediately after being dumped and go straight to a hooker or your closest backup female to demonstrate that you are unemotional and instead came here for advice (no pun intended).

 

Did you do the dumping?

Basically, if you are trying to get rid of someone, be straightforward and honest with them. Don't try to be kind, and don't try to be mean. Honesty really works a lot better. Kindness is perhaps the cruelest thing to do. Tell them the truth once you figure it out yourself. If you aren't sure, say so. Don't make up all kinds of things to make the other person feel at fault. And don't sugar coat your feelings with misplaced kindness. That isn't to say that you should keep quiet. Before dumping someone, you should probably know the difference between the things they actually do and the the things you are making up in your head, but few people do.

 

Oh, and ladies... your ex boyfriend is not your new girlfriend. Don't treat him like he is, he is not going to take that well. Don't try to introduce your new guy to him and pretend it will all work out. It won't and you just might get someone killed in the process.

 

And if you were just trying to make him jealous, get the hell away from me and from him and go live by yourself, because you aren't fit for a real relationship and you should wait until you are out of grade school.

 

Now, the rest of this is for those that were dumped by their ex and desire reconciliation....

 

Why would I want to practice "no contact"?

In many cases, emotions get the better of people, before, during and after a breakup. What we are trying to do here is to push a big fat red reset button on that problem.

 

People recommend no contact for two reasons, to allow you to move on (for your own good - even if that isn't what you want) or to allow your ex time to think and come back without being pushed further away.

 

The no contact time...

1) allows you to get over them (even if you don't want to)

2) allows them to get over you (even if you don't want them to)

3) allows you time to reconsider wanting them back, with a clear head

4) allows them time to reconsider wanting to leave, and time to miss you and want you back

5) allows you to separate more easily

6) allows you to reconcile

 

Attempting to accelerate this process will most likely extend it. What you want to do is break off contact and eliminate all the points of conflict that come up between you and the ex.

 

You are not in control of your ex's portion of this process. Do not try to be.

 

As my friend Mr. Positive said recently, "Not to worry, it'll be fine."

 

- - NEW - - You should be focused at this point on yourself. Your needs and goals are more important than recovering your ex, so achieve your goals and assume the ex is forever gone. If they return, you'll have your ex and your acheivements. If not, you have your achievements.

 

- - NEW - - Why not pursuit instead?

Pursuit is a valid tactic immediately after the breakup. You need to establish to your ex that you are not indifferent to them, but only up to a point. Sending token gifts (flowers) very early on to try to win over your ex may be ok (if your ex is female, for men probably not), but if they tell you to stop, STOP. If they seem at all irritated STOP. Otherwise they will start to see it as a manipulation, no matter how sincere you are. At that point you are violating their space. The more you do it, the more damage you do to yourself.

 

A few people have indicated that they find gifts to be a big turnoff, but flowers or candy seem to be more acceptable. Trying to throw expensive gifts is certainly bald faced manipulation. Classy women will not respond to it. So if gold diggers are your thing, I guess have at it. Others have said that No Contact is a pile of crap and reaching out is a good thing. Still others have said, never take advice from a woman on how to fix your relationship with a woman.

 

If your ex is seeing someone else, they do not deserve any gifts and doing so will certainly be looked at as a space violation.

 

If your ex talks condescendingly to you, that's probably a bad sign. They don't respect you.

 

I've already pursued, did I blow it?

Nope.

 

But if it's been awhile since the breakup, you have pushed the ex away a bit. You're challenging their decision. They are going to rebel against that.

 

Are you stalking? STOP IT. It won't improve things; it'll just get you locked up or under a restraining order. STOP IT. If you are driving by her house to see who's there, calling and hanging up, "meeting" her "accidentally", harassing her male friends, calling her family, sitting on her front steps, damaging property, etc you are already over the line and you need to stop now. If you can't, get counseling. Now.

 

- - NEW - - Any form of approach toward your ex, be it emails, visits, calls, will likely be viewed with suspicion and caution. Stay away and wait for a call. Once you get it you can begin to gauge what state the ex is in. Do not assume anything, most of all that they want to reconcile. They are more than likely just trying to satisfy their curiosity or assuage their guilt.

 

Talk to your friends and family

If your friends are honest with you they will tell you why they are recommending no contact. But sometimes they will recommend no contact because they think they are doing what's best for you and want you to move on. Just keep in mind that your friends may be trying to do what they think is best for you rather than what is best for your goal of getting her back. Ask them.

 

It's hard to tell what a friend's motives are sometimes, but the end result is the same however you prefer things to work out. Sometimes they know better than you do, sometimes they just think they do, sometimes they are genuinely trying to help and sometimes they are just afraid to tell you what they really think. Then there is the friend that has their own interest at heart, he wants your ex, but then, he isn't your friend is he? Don't get all paranoid. It's just a thought.

 

If you are a friend advising someone else: Be honest, otherwise you are doing them a horrible disservice in the guise of trying not to upset them. (That kind of motivation is about you, not about helping them).

 

Understand that you are always going to hear they don't deserve you or they were no good for you anyway followed up by a millions platitudes like things will work out or you'll feel better soon or have a cookie. These phrases are well meaning and supportive, but offer nothing substantial (except for the cookie one, but that could end up damging depending on how many you are offered).

 

Try to have a real conversation with someone. It will help. But if they can't deal with it, don't keep talking about it or you'll alienate them and end up with no one to spend time with.

 

If you still feel bad, have a cookie.

 

Practicing "No Contact"

Now no contact doesn't mean never talk to your ex. But it does mean that you should not pursue your ex. Doing so will push them away. Don't solicit mutual friends or your ex's family to talk to the ex. Talk to them if they are your friends, but don't give them missions, and don't ask them questions. It's best that you don't even talk to them about your ex unless they bring it up.

 

For instance, I talked to a mutual work acquaintance about my ex. She went to the ex and asked her if she thought we'd get back together. The ex told her no way. Later on she realized that the ex was using her to send me messages and now she has doubts that she really meant it. She says that my ex isn't ready, and that it may take time.

 

If your goal here is to reconcile, what you are trying to do is show your ex that you are independent and strong. You want them to see you in the best possible light. Every time you try to get them to see things your way, change their mind, or talk to you, you are pressuring them to do what you want. Every time they see that they will run away. What you want is for it to be their idea.

 

What I did after severl months was to talk the ex when she approached me. She was IM'ing me all day while we worked. We had an ongoing intermittent conversation for about 6 hours one day. About lunch time I told her I had to go and that she could message me anytime and that I had missed chatting with her. After lunch we continued to chat. Then nothing from her for several months.

 

What I tried to do was to make her at ease with talking to me but to let her know that I am still around. Because of the divorce issue, I feel that it is important to let her know this periodically. If she wasn't going thru that I would cut her off completely. My telling her that I've missed her, even casually, gives her power. That is something that you want to avoid doing. Women are attracted to power, not to men who give it up. But in this divorce scenario, there is some power in knowing what you want and making it clear to her. But that has to be done in such a way that it doesn't come across as whining. Generally speaking though, you appear more powerful if you are not pursuing.

 

If your ex sees that you are not pursuing they may have some doubts and come back to see how things are doing. This is the scouting party, coming to see how strong your forces are, get the lay of the land so to speak. This is not the time for you to undo everything you've accomplished. Don't over commit or reveal your positions. Maintain your strong front, be polite, be strong and wait for the full force to show itself. This is war. The best way to win a battle is to never fight it. You need to absorb your enemy into your ranks and allay with him/her. So be cool, give your ex a comfortable feeling of warm fuzziness. Muddle thru the Art of War for more information.

 

If your goal is to distance yourself and get past all this, then you should also be boxing up everything that reminds you of the ex and putting away somewhere where you won't see it all the time. Don't throw it out, you may want to see it at some point in your life. Drop the wallpaper on your PC, remove the photos, gifts, perfumes etc from your daily life. Otherwise they will always be in your thoughts.

 

- - NEW - - At the time of this writing, my ex had emailed me out of the blue a few days earlier, after hearing nothing from her for a month. A month earlier I had sent her and ecard b-day wish and she had thanked me and chatted via email for a day. Now again, we exchanged emails throughout the day. Her last email came near the end of the day right before a holiday weekend. I did not reply to this email, as I received it after her workday ended.

 

Come the next week, I saw her latest photos posted on a personals site. At first I didn't realize it was her. Damn she looked good. Starting to show her age a little, but really better for it. So that sent me into an emotional spiral like it was two years ago all over again. This weekend was also two years since our breakup.

 

But enuf was enuf. I replied to her last email and asked to her not to contact me anymore. I made it clear in my email that I still loved her and she could call when she wanted to date again, but to otherwise leave me alone. This was an extremely difficult thing for me to do. It's been just a few days since then, and I have heard nothing. I asked her not to reply, and I never expected to hear anything, and I suspect, if I ever did, it would be the sort of investigative probe of my mental state that I got before followed by some chatter about work and her problems there. I'm now at the point where I need her out of my life completely to put this behind me.

 

 

Self improvement

So, nothing to do with your time? Stress getting to you?

Exercise.

Now.

 

What you don't have a treadmill?

You have shoes don't you?

 

You're probably sitting in a chair right now with your feet on the floor. That floor is a wonderful thing. It's connected to something called "the ground". The ground is an ideal walking surface. So get out there and walk. No, not to McDonald's. Not to Subway.

 

I went thru a bit of hell when my ex dumped me and lost 40 lbs in 2 months. Then another 15 which I later put back on, but that first 40 has not come back. If that and a few memories and a bit of caution in the future are all I take away from this relationship, I guess I can't complain too much.

 

My ex's tend to put on weight after our breakup. Not uncommon I guess. But it does change one's perspective a bit when the ex is less attractive. You want to be on the good side of that. Lose weight, don't gain it.

 

Aside from a little weight loss, or body development, taking a class, learning something, getting out there, or volunteering are all methods of improving yourself and your outlook on life if you are feeling a little down. But exercise is the best way. It's a great stress reliever and gets the blood pumping.

 

Volunteering is touted as self-improvement, but it's really just a way of feeling better about yourself by helping others (or seeing how bad off you could be?).

 

- - NEW - - You'll often hear people say that you have to be happy with yourself before you can be happy with someone else. This is true to some extent, but despite the way people posture about self centered independence, people do find happiness thru other people. They acheive their goals thru other people. They have fun thru other people. People are social animals and the idea that someone achieves happiness independent of any other person is for the most part misguided.

 

Dating

If your ex starts dating other people, things get a little cloudier. They may still decide to come back. They may decide that they can't return because they were with someone else and won't be welcome.

 

If you start dating, you may decide that your ex doesn't matter anymore. Or you may end up hurting someone else when you take your ex back. Try not to do that. If you don't start dating, you risk wasting your time for nothing. That may be best for you, you have to decide.

 

Your ex may actually be comforted by you dating other people while they do. Dating someone else will also level the playing field between the two of you and reduce possible feelings of jealousy when you get back together. If you are the jealous type, you have to put that behind you or you will destroy any hope of reconciliation when the opportunity presents itself.

 

We only dated a few months, but I love my ex!

Three months is a magic number. It's built into the human brain (or so they say). If the relationship only lasted 3-4 months to begin with or if your ex is less than 25 (or so) years old (or really immature) they aren't likely to be coming back. It could take a bit longer with the immature as they may lack the nerve to break up in the first place. So 3 months is a trial period. The trial is over, move on. Less than 25 yrs old, many/most people aren't looking for permanent relationships. Don't get your hopes up. It might happen, sure, but it probably won't.

 

We only dated for a long time or were married

If the relationship lasted longer than 3 months, you may have some hope. People do reconcile. Take an honest look at your situation and decide if there is truly any chance. Not hope, not desire, but an honest to goodness chance. Be honest with yourself.

 

Stats say that 50% of marriages in the USA fail. Other stats say that 80% of married couples have been separated from their partner at one time or another. Other stats say that most divorced people will remarry within a couple years. There are no stats on unmarried couples, since divorce and marriage are the criteria for the stats. But we can probably safely assume that the numbers are similar. So, what’s that say for your chances? If the average person stays married for seven (per marriage, and based on the concept of seven year itch.

 

So what are the odds? Well 50% of relationships fail, and 50% survive. Of the 50% that succeed, 80% of those (40% of the marriages) have suffered breakups/separations and reconciled. So the odds of you getting back together are 80%. The odds of any marriage working long term are 90% ? hmmm. None of this is referenced anywhere.

 

If there wasn’t a marriage involved, and it wasn’t short term. Then it probably is a lower chance, but those numbers are hopeful.

 

If there are other factors, like severe emotional distress (recent breakup, divorce, illness, death of a loved one), insecurity (fear of success), immaturity (fear of not getting your way, or just plain fear) or psychological trauma (child of divorce, mental illness, abuse, rape) your ex may just need to find themself or work through their issues. Emotional distress can cause someone to make a drastic change to try to stabilize or reset their life. Your ex may be trying to eliminate you as a stressor.

 

Your ex may be aware of these factors, but probably is not. Your ex may even be trying to do what is best for you while they work through their own issues. That is a sign of a good person. A good person won't tell you that they just need to go out and try a few other people so that they are sure they are doing the right thing because they are too young, or was married for so long.

 

If your ex was recently divorced, you may be the rebound person. If you were friends prior to that, you may have some hope yet. If not, the chance is there, but slim. Many divorced people latch on to someone close. But others just look for someone who is radically different from their ex.

 

Once your ex works thru the issues they are facing, they may reconsider.....or they may not. Your ex might find someone else they like better in the meantime. Don't put your life on hold. Sure, it's easy to say, but supposedly it works. "The best way to get over someone is to get under someone else."

 

I have kids, what do I do?

This is an excellent point that was brought up in a recent thread. Just remember that the kids come first. Unless your ex was abusing the kids in some form, your kids should have contact with both their biological parents, it's important. Don't try to use your kids as weapons and don't try to prevent contact with the ex. You're doing that for vengeance and harming your kids in the process. Try to limit your personal interaction, but whatever you do, do it without harming the kids or interfering with parental visitation. Don't bad mouth the ex. Kids are smarter than you think. And even if they buy your line of bull now, they will look back on it with the perspective of years and resent you for your manipulation. Don't try to bring a new guy into your kids lives too quickly. You may want to wait until your are seriously considering marriage or a long term relationship with someone before introducing them to your kids. Parading a string of partners past your kids will only confuse, upset, or damage them.

 

My ex just got divorced (or was about to) and dumped me

This is classic. And it's a pet peeve of mine as this is the situation I found myself in over a year ago. Your ex is going thru the most confusing time of their life. There is nothing that you can do to stop this, or to control it. You have to let it happen. All you can do is let them know that you are still interested and accept whatever they throw at you. And they will throw alot.

 

In my case I was told a variety of things that I did that caused the breakup. All of these were later retracted by the ex or revealed to be invalid thru conversations she had with others that were related to me in some fashion. I learned thru mutual acquaintances and her relatives that she just needed to be single for a while. The most poignant comment made to me about this while I was railing at the world was "she just needed to try out other people. Good women don't say things like that. They just break up with you and do it. What did you expect her to say I just need to screw some other guys and see what I've been missing for 15 years?"

 

The point of this is that when your ex is pulling away out of fear of entering another bad relationship, they will say things that are designed to distance you. They may also seek out someone else to establish a barrier between you. These are hard things to work thru and to accept. If at the end of it all, you still want them back, then you have to set all that aside and give them whatever time they need to find their way back.

 

The ex keeps calling while I'm trying to start no contact

Don't reply right away. But you should reply. Wait a day the first time, wait a little longer after that. Don't be rude, be casual. Don't refuse, but instead defer contact. Gradually increase the time between callbacks. If the ex asks you to get back together, you need to decide if you still want that and then let them in slowly. Be careful. Don't jump back into bed right away. Set some boundaries and expectations of your own.

 

The ex calls after a period of no contact.

Don't reply right away. But you should reply. Wait a day the first time, wait a little longer after that. Don't be rude, be casual. Leave the ball in their court to give them a comfort zone and a good image of you. Don't play games. If you don't respond at all your ex may read that as you moving on.

 

Moving on

When you don't really value relationships, it is easier to separate. You'll hear alot of advice along the lines of "they weren't worth it, find someone else" from people who defend their emotional well being by running to someone else. Whether that works for you is up to you.

 

No contact can also be a method for revenge against a partner who wronged you or a self defense mechanism to deal with the emotions of the breakup. The dumper may use it to avoid facing their feelings about a person they don't want to be with, or the dumped may use it as a defense.

 

The problem is that when you are really in love and have legitimate reason to believe the other person may come back, the longer the no contact goes on the harder it is to deal with the separation. The mental pressure to do something continues to increase.

 

If you are up against an externally imposed deadline (your ex is moving away, changing jobs, etc.) you are going to eventually be forced to break the no contact policy or accept that you may never see or hear from them again.

 

If your ex is getting married, go out and rent the movie The Graduate for ideas on how to approach her at the wedding.

 

At some point you have to move on. You can't just sit around and pine for the ex forever. Sure, you have to do it for a while, but not forever. You did your duty. You gave it a more than a reasonable effort. If the relationship is finished forever, it won't be because you didn't try.

 

But let's be honest here. If you can't be honest with yourself, you are wasting time reading this. So, did you cause the breakup? Was your ex justified in ending things because of something you did? Can you correct it?

 

So if it's time, move on. Only you can decide when.

 

In the meantime, date someone else.

 

If the ex doesn't respond "no contact" will eventually turn into peace of mind for you. Eventually. You've moved on. If they come back around it will be on your terms, or the answer will be no.

 

It isn't fair

Yeah.

 

You know I used the word justified a little while ago. But, let's make something clear. Your ex does not need to justify their decision to you. This is a personal viewpoint, preference, emotion, feeling or what have you of which your ex has 100% control. They do not need to provide you a justification, but if they are a halfway decent person that can cope with a little bit of face to face conflict, they will at the very least explain it to you so that you can correct it in your next relationship. If they don't offer to explain, ask. If they won't, there isn't much you can do about it.

 

Reconciliation...

Once the dumper tries to comes back, the rules change. If they call, then they have changed or are thinking about changing their mind (whatever they might think) and the walls are coming down a bit. But your ex may just be feeling bad about what they did and trying to get some comfort for themself.

 

It doesn't matter, it shows that your ex is thinking about you. Keeping your ex at a distance lets them continue to lower the walls until eventually they are trying hard to get you back. So you talk, you are civil, you can state your terms, offer to take them back, but you cannot beg them to come back.

 

If your ex asks to try again, and you still want to, then do it, slowly.

 

Letting your ex back into your life too easily may give them the illusion that they can just come back on their terms and take what they want when they want. That's no kind of relationship. You have to let your ex into your world, but not have control of it. If they are going to come back it has to be on mutual terms, not their terms and not yours.

 

 

When in doubt

"No contact" should be considered a policy and not a rule. If you have any doubt, don't contact your ex. Listen to that little voice. Try to sit on things for a day or two before acting.

 

- - NEW - - Things to think about

- You may be better off without the ex.

- Is it unimagineable that there might be a better match out there for you?

- Peristent patience may payoff in the long run at the cost of a great deal of time.

- Sometimes you have to draw a line in the sand as a wakeup call to the other person or risk becoming a doormat or backup plan.

- Are you getting your wants or needs met by what you are doing now?

 

- - NEW - - Notable quotes

- With NC, it's when you least expect it, the phone rings or the email comes.

- This person does not deserve to be thought about everyday.

- "Because I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggonit, people like me!" (stuart smalley)

[lost_in_chgo]

(From V4 thread) Good luck. Keep us updated with any progress.

 

Thanks, who knows, but I don't have any short term hope in that regard.

[bendit]

Lost I realize you are hurting and in extreme pain. This has been a two year ordeal for you and you are back to square one. You have to examine what you are up against here. What you have been dealing with is someone who has been doing nothing but PLAYING with your emotions, toying with your essence, and likely getting a sick satisfaction out of it. She is a terrible person for doing it. For preying on your weakness and naiveté.

 

She is a user of the worst kind. She is not rational. Its not the way you or I would do things. But some people aren't rational. They are very sick and don't consider the consequences of what they do. They Only consider themselves and what they are getting out of it. And what she has been getting from this pathetic dance that has been going on is a huge ego boost. Because here she is, moving on, dating, sleeping around, posting her profile, yet anytime she feels the NEED, anytime her new adventures aren't DOING it for her, she has you.

 

All she need do is send an email and HOURS or minutes later she gets her FIX. She knows you're there. You want her. You need her. You can't live without her. Still. After all this time. And that DOES it for her. It is entirely selfish. It is the worst kind of unimaginable using up of another person and it has almost destroyed you from the looks of it. That is why people who really really understand the insidious dynamic at play here advocate nothing but strict NC as soon as possible. You have to see this person as who she really is. And let me be clear. This person has used you up and spit you out. She TOYS with you and laughs and then Counts the chumps (victims) who have emailed her off the dating site, providing her with more Ego boost. They call this SUPPLY and you are a source of supply for her. It is a one way street to nowhere and as long as you play, you stay on it. You get nothing. She gets satisfaction, albeit a temporary one.

 

Now she may not even be aware she is doing this. It just is natural for her, to use you like this. She does it because she can and it feels good to know someone out there just can't get enough of ME. Because you make it so easy for her. I've been there. I've been on both sides in fact. I strung along a woman for a number of years and didn't realize that I was hurting her by not insisting that we go no contact. I did not intend to hurt but that's what happened because I wasn't strong enough nor enlightened enough to insist on NC. NOr was she. I didn't even know what NC was. I know better now.

 

Yes I am being hard on you. But I a can't be any more direct. You could die if you continue to play this sick manipulative game with her. It is not uncommon for people in your position to commit the ultimate crime against themselves. I pray that you are serious in your attempts to go FULL NO CONTACT. Do you know what that means? It means deleting all her old emails. It means deleting and throwing out her pictures. It means blocking her emails. It means blocking IM. It means not listening to voice messages. It means screening calls or it may mean changing your number, changing your job, changing where you live, weeding out friends. You have an Addiction and it is time for Cold Turkey. NC doesn't just mean I will never contact this person. It means that you have to Protect yourself from getting dragged back into this nonsense, this morass. And that could happen with one IM, or an email, or a voice message, or a holiday card. Because if you do get sucked back it, it will be worse. So your attitude now has to change. Your last thoughts are not hopeful. You are still waiting for her! You have to go over to the COPING forum now and change your mindset into making it through. Into surviving. Because now that you are admitting NC is the way to go, your real journey to turning things around for yourself is only now really beginning. I wish you all the best.

 

Regards

 

Mike

[ReluctantRomeo]

Thanks, who knows, but I don't have any short term hope in that regard.

 

Realistic, but hard to take.

 

Your revised guide is great, btw. Some particular highlights for me:

 

• Human beings as social animals. I definitely agree. We are designed to find happiness thru each other, not just in ourselves. Otherwise, what on earth would be the point of relationships in the first place?
   
  
• Second chances. Maybe this is just a coincidence, but quite a few of the couples close to me got back together after a significant break. These relationships are all happy. And in one case, the gap was nearly 10 years. Second chances often don't work of course, but the "just move on, don't look back" philosophy ignores the fact that they often do.
   
  
• Finally, it's definitely when you least expect it.

[bendit]

Lost I have read your history. You are in a bad place right now BECAUSE of this catastrophic "relationship" with this Illusion of a woman that you have spent minimal time with. She is a DREAM. Real Life with this woman would likely be a "borderline" disaster for you. She married at 17. Divorced before 30. Five kids. Shacking up. Long distance relationships, Personals. Stringing you along. Using you like Keenex.

 

She won't STOP. You have things ASS backwards. You think she will stop when she loses interest. WRONG. THIS is what interests her and this alone. She loves this! She has it all! She has dates, a live-in chump, and another one (you) who is ONE IM or email away from validating her. And she's had it for two years now! And you are breaking down in front of us. You are a shell of a man and its because of what you have done TO YOURSELF (with her cooperation) over the last two years.

 

Today you see the consequences of these actions. Is she feeling like this? Certainly not. You have energized this woman. She knows that she has this guy who is so hung up on her that he won't even go out of the house and live his life. He is an emotional cripple and its because of HER. She has used you like a tampon and if you went full NC, and stuck to it, she would simply find another CHUMP to exhaust the lifeforce out of.

 

Get angry man! Look at what your SWEETIE PIE has done to you. She has turned you into a pile of CRAP. And she is ****ing and sucking and dating and flirting and perhaps has a live in. She is evil. You don't know her at all. You only know what she wants you to know. You think her Yahoo profile is REAL? LOL. I can tell you they are anything but real. I know they are made up stories because my ex, days after breaking up with me, went on Match and I read her profile. And it was pure unadulterated BS! A fiction. A tall tale. A subterfuge. A CON.

 

I have had to do a fair bit of analysis after a break up where she professed her love for me and then instantly turned off the light and went searching for a replacement, leaving me in a heap by the road. And I came to one conclusion. MY NEEDINESS did me in.

 

Yes ME. My neediness for "love," for companionship for sex, for FEMALE closeness was my downfall. It ruined me because I believed "something" even a tiny tiny morsel of a screwed up woman was better than nothing. And I discovered that's dead wrong. Because there are people and relationships out there that will suck the LIFE out of you. And I discovered NOTHING is better than some of THAT.

 

What is the proper mindset? This may sound off the wall but its the exact opposite of my old approach. STOP NEEDING WOMEN. In fact stop needing anything to get you through life. Focus on being happy without a WOMAN in your life and it will teach you many great things. It will force you to be a REAL MAN.

 

I don't mean go be a recluse. Hardly. Think GANDHI. Now here is a guy who didn't need WOMEN! He was celibate. And you know what, it didn't KILL him. In fact he found a much richer existence that turned him away from selfishness. He was Happy. GOD was he happy and GOD did he contribute to the world. Now, you don't have to do what GANDHI did. You don't have to be celibate. But that's not a bad thing at all (do a google search). It can be a highly rewarding way to live and may lead you to a higher calling. This is simply an example of how changing the way you think can change your life. Gandhi didn't need MATCH.COM.

 

No, you don't have to be celibate. But if you assume the mindset that you don't NEED women, that you could be perfectly happy being celibate, you may find that women become available to you to enjoy. Think about that.

 

Its time to wake up and realize that this is now serious serious business and that your life is at stake. Do you know how many people out there who would trade places with you in a minute? THOUSANDS. Millions. You have an opportunity for a fresh start. You have no children. You are healthy. You presumably have two arms and two legs. See you are LUCKY. You have an education. You have family that cares about you. You have over half your life ahead of you. You live in the USA. Can you imagine yourself growing up peniless in Ethiopia?

 

But first you have to get out of this RETCHED place this so called relationship has put you in. First step is to extricate yourself from this GOD AWFUL Mess YOU have created for yourself; and its very simple how to do it. You already write volumes on it but you miss the central point. You don't practice what you preach. NO CONTACT WHATSOEVER PERIOD.

 

Now if you absolutely dedicate yourself 110% to just this, you will get stronger and you will feel better. Yes, you are in such a hole right now that it will take time. But slowly and surely you will feel better and you will begin to snowball good feelings. You are so pessimistic right now because you have put yourself in a HOPELESS place with your actions. The alternative is unthinkable.

 

So get over to the COPING forum and start a diary and get support and take the first step toward your new life that you will have. Its all about you now. It no longer about that terrible person who was your partner in this sick dance.

 

 

Best of luck to you,

 

Mike

[sanne]

Lost I have read your history. You are in a bad place right now BECAUSE of this catastrophic "relationship" with this Illusion of a woman that you have spent minimal time with. She is a DREAM. Real Life with this woman would likely be a "borderline" disaster for you. She married at 17. Divorced before 30. Five kids. Shacking up. Long distance relationships, Personals. Stringing you along. Using you like Keenex.

 

She won't STOP. You have things ASS backwards. You think she will stop when she loses interest. WRONG. THIS is what interests her and this alone. She loves this! She has it all! She has dates, a live-in chump, and another one (you) who is ONE IM or email away from validating her. And she's had it for two years now! And you are breaking down in front of us. You are a shell of a man and its because of what you have done TO YOURSELF (with her cooperation) over the last two years.

 

Today you see the consequences of these actions. Is she feeling like this? Certainly not. You have energized this woman. She knows that she has this guy who is so hung up on her that he won't even go out of the house and live his life. He is an emotional cripple and its because of HER. She has used you like a tampon and if you went full NC, and stuck to it, she would simply find another CHUMP to exhaust the lifeforce out of.

 

Get angry man! Look at what your SWEETIE PIE has done to you. She has turned you into a pile of CRAP. And she is ****ing and sucking and dating and flirting and perhaps has a live in. She is evil. You don't know her at all. You only know what she wants you to know. You think her Yahoo profile is REAL? LOL. I can tell you they are anything but real. I know they are made up stories because my ex, days after breaking up with me, went on Match and I read her profile. And it was pure unadulterated BS! A fiction. A tall tale. A subterfuge. A CON.

 

I have had to do a fair bit of analysis after a break up where she professed her love for me and then instantly turned off the light and went searching for a replacement, leaving me in a heap by the road. And I came to one conclusion. MY NEEDINESS did me in.

 

Yes ME. My neediness for "love," for companionship for sex, for FEMALE closeness was my downfall. It ruined me because I believed "something" even a tiny tiny morsel of a screwed up woman was better than nothing. And I discovered that's dead wrong. Because there are people and relationships out there that will suck the LIFE out of you. And I discovered NOTHING is better than some of THAT.

 

What is the proper mindset? This may sound off the wall but its the exact opposite of my old approach. STOP NEEDING WOMEN. In fact stop needing anything to get you through life. Focus on being happy without a WOMAN in your life and it will teach you many great things. It will force you to be a REAL MAN.

 

I don't mean go be a recluse. Hardly. Think GANDHI. Now here is a guy who didn't need WOMEN! He was celibate. And you know what, it didn't KILL him. In fact he found a much richer existence that turned him away from selfishness. He was Happy. GOD was he happy and GOD did he contribute to the world. Now, you don't have to do what GANDHI did. You don't have to be celibate. But that's not a bad thing at all (do a google search). It can be a highly rewarding way to live and may lead you to a higher calling. This is simply an example of how changing the way you think can change your life. Gandhi didn't need MATCH.COM.

 

No, you don't have to be celibate. But if you assume the mindset that you don't NEED women, that you could be perfectly happy being celibate, you may find that women become available to you to enjoy. Think about that.

 

Its time to wake up and realize that this is now serious serious business and that your life is at stake. Do you know how many people out there who would trade places with you in a minute? THOUSANDS. Millions. You have an opportunity for a fresh start. You have no children. You are healthy. You presumably have two arms and two legs. See you are LUCKY. You have an education. You have family that cares about you. You have over half your life ahead of you. You live in the USA. Can you imagine yourself growing up peniless in Ethiopia?

 

But first you have to get out of this RETCHED place this so called relationship has put you in. First step is to extricate yourself from this GOD AWFUL Mess YOU have created for yourself; and its very simple how to do it. You already write volumes on it but you miss the central point. You don't practice what you preach. NO CONTACT WHATSOEVER PERIOD.

 

Now if you absolutely dedicate yourself 110% to just this, you will get stronger and you will feel better. Yes, you are in such a hole right now that it will take time. But slowly and surely you will feel better and you will begin to snowball good feelings. You are so pessimistic right now because you have put yourself in a HOPELESS place with your actions. The alternative is unthinkable.

 

So get over to the COPING forum and start a diary and get support and take the first step toward your new life that you will have. Its all about you now. It no longer about that terrible person who was your partner in this sick dance.

 

 

Best of luck to you,

 

Mike

 

well i don't think any of us here could have said it better ourselves.

[lost_in_chgo]

OK lets address this one item at a time:

 

Lost I have read your history. You are in a bad place right now BECAUSE of this catastrophic "relationship"

More for lack of another one. The fact is I've had zero luck finding someone that I am interested in that has a mutual interest. And no one near what I had in past relationships. My ex is not to blame for that. You've started with a premise of evil that's more about your bitterness to your ex than my love for mine or any of her actions.

 

Illusion of a woman that you have spent minimal time with. She is a DREAM.

No illusions, and I've no idea where you got the idea of minimal time. I'm very aware of her limitations and spent every day working closely with her for several years before dating her. She isn't perfect, but she's who I loved and I think we could rebuild if she was willing. Right now she isn't. I'm sure you can build some illusions around that, but I certainly am not.

 

This is the harsh cold reality: She got divorced with good cause from a complete loser to protect herself and her kids. She needed someone. I new I'd probably be the rebound guy, but I couldn't turn her down. Things were great for six months and then she had a couple major problems in her life, freaked out and went over the wall. This is common after a divorce. Now what we had was either just a meaningless rebound relationship, or was real and she just wasn't ready for it. I choose to believe the latter and I am willing to make allowances for that. Until she moves to a place where she can be a bit more introspective, she's not coming back. It is possible that she will never get there. I've tried for two years to be there for her in whatever way she wanted. But every once in awhile the stress just gets to be too much and I finally said enuf. So to take some of the stress off myself, I asked her not to contact me anymore. She probably wont. Someday she might. I don't know. That's it. Everything else is illusion.

 

 

Real Life with this woman would likely be a "borderline" disaster for you. She married at 17. Divorced before 30. Five kids. Shacking up. Long distance relationships, Personals.

There's nothing inherently wrong with any of the above except that she started too young and shows some neediness.

 

 

Stringing you along.

Again off base. She was very clear that she doesn't want to date me anymore and will not come back. The only reason I doubt that is that she was in the midst of her divorce and not processing it very well at the time.

She turns to me for some emotional support on occassion, because she knows we have the same attitudes about work. That's hardly stringing me along. You talk as if she orchestrated all of this for a cable TV show. It not anywhere near that sinister. Yes there are women like that. This is not one of them. Check your exes at the door.

 

Using you like Keenex.

You're just layering your own problems onto mine. Listen, I get an email from her complaining about her work every few months. She's not discussing anything about my or her relationships and not making any comments along those lines. I've not discussed anything but work with her in well over a year.

 

She's not toying with my heart, there just something that makes her mail me and maintain the contact. Some here think she's using me, some think that she is reaching out after a fashion, or trying to maintain some contact. Her work friend told me that she thinks she just enjoys talking to me and values my opinion. I think it's more about what she needs (someone to talk to) than it is about my value, but that's me.

 

Today you see the consequences of these actions. Is she feeling like this? Certainly not. You have energized this woman.

Good. A little self confidence would be a great thing to have given her, however things worked out.

 

Get angry man! Look at what your SWEETIE PIE has done to you. She has turned you into a pile of CRAP. And she is ****ing and sucking and dating and flirting and perhaps has a live in. She is evil. You don't know her at all.

Last I checked, she is entitled to date anyone she wants.

 

You only know what she wants you to know. You think her Yahoo profile is REAL? LOL.

Dude, head over to coping yourself, you've got some problems to work thru. My ex's profile is pretty vague and about 3 lines long, she makes no claims whatsoever about herself. You're talking about your own history and projecting it here.

 

I have had to do a fair bit of analysis after a break up where she professed her love for me and then instantly turned off the light and went searching for a replacement, leaving me in a heap by the road.

Common practive for women, they make up their minds in silence and then make a proclamation and run.

 

And I came to one conclusion. MY NEEDINESS did me in. Yes ME. My neediness for "love," for companionship for sex, for FEMALE closeness was my downfall. It ruined me because I believed "something" even a tiny tiny morsel of a screwed up woman was better than nothing. And I discovered that's dead wrong. Because there are people and relationships out there that will suck the LIFE out of you. And I discovered NOTHING is better than some of THAT.

Yeah yeah, so you read that book. It's sort of ridiculous you know. You intend to live the rest of your life ready to walk away from anyone and everyone that doesn't do exactly what you want? Pretty narcissitic.

 

What is the proper mindset? This may sound off the wall but its the exact opposite of my old approach. STOP NEEDING WOMEN. In fact stop needing anything to get you through life.

I did that for too many years. It's a great idea until you get slapped with reality. You want to be a bar hopping whore living out of a cardboard box, fine. That's not for me. Oh, wait, you don't need the box either.

 

celibate. But that's not a bad thing at all (do a google search). It can be a highly rewarding way to live and may lead you to a higher calling.

Kinda a stupid choice if you want kids.

 

No, you don't have to be celibate. But if you assume the mindset that you don't NEED women, that you could be perfectly happy being celibate, you may find that women become available to you to enjoy. Think about that.

Ridiculous. Don't believe everything you read. The bottom line of the book is self-confidence. Toss the rest.

 

Its time to wake up and realize that this is now serious serious business and that your life is at stake. Do you know how many people out there who would trade places with you in a minute? THOUSANDS. Millions.

Wait, I thought that this was all meaningless stuff I didn't need? Now it's serious business? Huh????

 

You already write volumes on it but you miss the central point. You don't practice what you preach. NO CONTACT WHATSOEVER PERIOD.

Nope, that's not what I preach, go read it again. I've followed a different less restrictive line with my ex. That is to make it clear to her that I would be interested in reconnecting. This was actually recommended as the right way to deal with what I call divorce psychosi. Then I left it to her and maintained some contact, but did not bring it up again until my last email. In the meantime I have been working on finding someone else but having little luck. During this time, yes I was still posting here and thinking about her alot, but I was not interacting with her. There were several 3-6 month periods of no contact with her over the two years.

 

My last email was my final step in asking her to stop emailing so that I can forget about her. I restated my position for her, because I want her to know where I stand and that I meant what I said when I told her she is welcome to come back.

 

you are in such a hole right now

I have moments of that, but generally I am just living my life.

 

You are so pessimistic right now

Pessimistic about what exactly?

 

So yes, I have times when I am in a bad place and come and post here, but that has not been the norm for over a year now. I don't need my ex. I never did, she'd be a terrible burden in a lot of ways and a wonderful joy in others. That's life. That's the way it works. All in all I would prefer to have her back.

 

I do still hope that she will come around, but I also hope that the waitress friend of mine I talked to 3 months ago will come around (and I'd prefer that really) and that the 3 girls I messaged on the personals last night will respond if they ever log into the system again.

[bendit]

Lost, you wrote FIVE VOLUMES on how to do No Contact over two years or so right? Why then do you need to ask this question (from five days ago) after writing FIVE VOLUMES of how to do NC/LC? Answer: you're still as perplexed and stuck as you were two years ago.

 

 

"So we drifted off topic of my curveball question... back in post ..whatever it was

 

Here's another curveball.

Got an email from the ex yesterday. "hi guess what's going on at work" thing.

 

Seriously, every time she is having relationship problems she emails me and doesn't talk about it. What's the deal?

 

I don't think this is a conscious keep him on a hook thing. I think she's thinking about me, just maybe not in the way I would like.

 

Should I keep the communication going? Or just not respond?

Regardless of whether I do or not, my feelings stay the same and until I find someone else that's just the way it is going to be.

Since then, we've traded a few emails about her work today. I don't expect to hear anything from her until next week now that work is over...."

 

 

So Lost. It appears we've hit you on an UP day today...Perhaps you need to do what I did and review how absolutely PATHETIC SAD and HOPELESS you sound as you document the last two years of your life, even if by chance you don't feel that way today.

 

regards

 

Mike

[lost_in_chgo]

Lost, you wrote FIVE VOLUMES on how to do No Contact over two years or so right? Why then do you need to ask this question (from five days ago) after writing FIVE VOLUMES of how to do NC/LC? Answer: you're still as perplexed and stuck as you were two years ago.

 

Ahh, I see your confusion. I compiled one volume on no contact and incorporated some of my own experiences and some of others on this and other boards. I then updated it based on feedback from others and some new experience along the way.

 

I did this primarily because at the time the topic kept coming up again and again in a variety of forms and I felt that organizing it into a coherent volume would be helpful to others. As I believe I mentioned in the document.

 

Certainly I gained some insight as part of this, but it does not represent my life as a whole. I made no effort to document every aspect of my life or my feelings in the Lost Guide. I just put relevant information for both sides of the argument on why someone would want to avoid contact with their ex.

 

In fact, like most posters here, I post when I need support or just to vent. I post here instead of communicating with the ex to no end. I post here when I feel like talking to others that feel the same way. What you see is a collection of the bad days for the most part.

 

Along the way we run into the bitter, hopeless, or more experienced types that don't believe in second chances or romance and are driven to try to push that viewpoint on anyone that posts in either area of the site. Sometimes that perspective helps, other times it's just bitter and negative.

 

Some people choose to attack the idea of no contact, recommending it in the same breath, just with different words. My feeling is that explaining it to someone is more effective than trying to proclaim my will from the mountaintop and force everyone within the range of my voice into compliance.

 

I'm certainly not married to the idea as I said in countless earlier posts. I dont really believe that in my situation, to accomplish my goals, that refusing to respond to her is my best avenue. I still don't, but I have to protect myself at this point. Yet, should she contact me again, I will be there for her. hehe Try and get your mind around that one!

 

Pathetic is in the eye of the beholder, though had I been successful, certainly a different tune would be sung.

 

Sad? certainly. I've failed to accomplish my goal. That's terribly disappointing.

 

Hopeless? Hopeless? Hopeless? I've had nothing but hope for the last two years. Now, finally, I am hopeless. And sarahless as well.

 

Hope is not a bad thing you know. And I don't lose mine as quickly as others. Pessimism? Hardly. Hope and Optimism go had in hand.

 

If anything, call me deluded.

 

Even most of my supporters here have given up on my behalf. Except maybe for Romeo, mandrews, and the occasional KitWalker visit. Though Kit told me to give up. Kudos to Kit for successfully moving on. We await an update on that situation.

 

I wish that little redhead would come back online and chat with me. She was a hoot, if maybe too young for me (though I wouldn't complain)

[Art_Critic]

Perhaps you need to do what I did and review how absolutely PATHETIC SAD and HOPELESS you sound as you document the last two years of your life

 

Lighten up dude .. You are not about to get anybody to believe that you are using tough love.. You are just talking down to him ..

 

Lighten up

[bendit]

Lost,

 

I wish you all the best. Take care and hope things work

out for you. I am sure you will discover the answer.

Sorry for coming on too strong....

 

regards

 

Mike

[lost_in_chgo]

Lighten up dude .. You are not about to get anybody to believe that you are using tough love.. You are just talking down to him ..

Lighten up

 

I think he means well, I just think he was projecting instead of reading.

 

"Tough love" is designed for the rebellious.

Here, when people are down, it usually morphs into "a dogpile"

[AmberAriesMom]

Go ask this girl to marry you!

[ReluctantRomeo]

Go ask this girl to marry you!

 

Yes, that's gonna work

[lost_in_chgo]

Go ask this girl to marry you!

 

I'd have a better chance asking women I stop randomly on the street I think.

 

Wait a minute....

that's not a bad idea...

[lost_in_chgo]

Go ask this girl to marry you!

Hey AAM, Not sure if this was tongue in cheek or semi serious or what, but we had discussed it pretty early on and she knew things were going that way and when the divorce cam near final, I think she was worried she'd be jumping into another marriage. Pushing that before she was ready would have been very bad.