Author Lorenza Posted September 7, 2018 Author Posted September 7, 2018 Well, I cleverly took the convo towards a place I saw an add for and he asked if I'd like to go. I said "yes, sounds like fun!" but still no assertiveness from him. I'd expect him to say "how about x date and x time?", but it seems like it won't happen until I suggest the date and time myself. Ugh I don't know if I have the patience. I like him but...
losangelena Posted September 7, 2018 Posted September 7, 2018 Well, I cleverly took the convo towards a place I saw an add for and he asked if I'd like to go. I said "yes, sounds like fun!" but still no assertiveness from him. I'd expect him to say "how about x date and x time?", but it seems like it won't happen until I suggest the date and time myself. Ugh I don't know if I have the patience. I like him but... Yeah, but I don't think you like him THAT much, because if you did, this wouldn't be a big deal, you'd just suggest a day, and not sit their silently wishing he'd do it.
Happy Lemming Posted September 7, 2018 Posted September 7, 2018 Don't mean financially though, as I'm quite able to pay for myself, but neither would I like it to be strictly 50/50. It's off-putting to count money. I can pay few times in a row and my partner could do the same, without counting who's turn it is. I just don't like taking turns, it's a romance killer for me. Maybe he is just "cheap" and doesn't want to pay every time?? Don't get me wrong, I NEVER asked a woman to pay or even go "dutch"... I always budgeted a monthly amount for dating and did the best I could with those dollars. Maybe this guy is on a very tight budget or has some aversion to opening his wallet for every date??
Author Lorenza Posted September 7, 2018 Author Posted September 7, 2018 Yeah, but I don't think you like him THAT much, because if you did, this wouldn't be a big deal, you'd just suggest a day, and not sit their silently wishing he'd do it. Oh no no, I've already accepted a lot of things I didn't want to accept just because I thought I should leave my own principles for a guy. Never again
Gaeta Posted September 7, 2018 Posted September 7, 2018 Well, I cleverly took the convo towards a place I saw an add for and he asked if I'd like to go. I said "yes, sounds like fun!" but still no assertiveness from him. I'd expect him to say "how about x date and x time?", but it seems like it won't happen until I suggest the date and time myself. Ugh I don't know if I have the patience. I like him but... He needs to date a woman that likes to be in charge. With time he'll learn to suggest dates but he'll probably be happier if you're the decision maker. Some women feel comfortable in that role, others don't. It's all a matter of compatibility and balance. My bf can be quite indecisive and often turns to me to make decisions. Sometimes it drives me crazy, other times I am glad I am in charge. It balances out somehow.
salparadise Posted September 7, 2018 Posted September 7, 2018 Yeah, but I don't think you like him THAT much, because if you did, this wouldn't be a big deal, you'd just suggest a day, and not sit their silently wishing he'd do it. Just tell him what your availability is, or ask "what's the plan?" I can relate to this guy's plight because I get tired, tired, tired of having to do everything and keep trying to maintain the momentum while women lay back and just pride themselves on being passive and picky. It's a reversion to the old gender expectations. I always say I want a 50/50 relationship, but the truth is it end up more like 75/25 with women still waiting for the man to take the lead, take the risk, and usually foot the bill... then they judge. Sometimes I feel like I'm all out of phukks to give. You set the precedent and pattern when you took the initiative to ask him out. But now you're expecting him to read your mind and know that you really want to be courted and pursued traditionally. I think you should just work with him cooperatively to keep moving things along... it may or may not work out, but I think you owe it to the both of you to get out of critical mode and just roll with it. He just might surprise you on the upside. 2
Author Lorenza Posted September 7, 2018 Author Posted September 7, 2018 Just tell him what your availability is, or ask "what's the plan?" I can relate to this guy's plight because I get tired, tired, tired of having to do everything and keep trying to maintain the momentum while women lay back and just pride themselves on being passive and picky. It's a reversion to the old gender expectations. I always say I want a 50/50 relationship, but the truth is it end up more like 75/25 with women still waiting for the man to take the lead, take the risk, and usually foot the bill... then they judge. Sometimes I feel like I'm all out of phukks to give. You set the precedent and pattern when you took the initiative to ask him out. But now you're expecting him to read your mind and know that you really want to be courted and pursued traditionally. I think you should just work with him cooperatively to keep moving things along... it may or may not work out, but I think you owe it to the both of you to get out of critical mode and just roll with it. He just might surprise you on the upside. I don't expect men to pick up the bill and I pay for myself, mentioned that in my other posts. Poor men having to take the lead. But if a woman is keen on seeing each other and actively plans things, most men get lazy, start taking it for granted and feel like the chase is over. Been there done that. Actually, I didn't set the pattern, because after I initiated the first date, I told him that's not how I usually like it and he said he's gonna make it up for it. No mind reading. The second date could maybe count as him planning, but it was still me showing him around my area and leading the way. So I don't see how am I just sitting back and letting him do all the work. We did end up booking in the date for tomorrow and it's probably gonna be fun, but I still have a problem with how the whole thing went. It's still a place I came up so I don't feel asked out.
Author Lorenza Posted September 7, 2018 Author Posted September 7, 2018 He needs to date a woman that likes to be in charge. With time he'll learn to suggest dates but he'll probably be happier if you're the decision maker. Some women feel comfortable in that role, others don't. It's all a matter of compatibility and balance. My bf can be quite indecisive and often turns to me to make decisions. Sometimes it drives me crazy, other times I am glad I am in charge. It balances out somehow. I've been that woman in 3 relationships. If we ever went out somewhere, it was my idea. Otherwise it would be home + movies + sex + going to sleep. In my last relationship I haven't been asked out once! Not even to a restaurant. If I was comfortable making all the desicions and doing all the heavy lifting once, I am not anymore. So if this guy needs a woman like that, I'm not gonna volunteer. I'm just gonna ask that tomorrow and see what he says. It's not worth going on more dates if that's the case
FMW Posted September 7, 2018 Posted September 7, 2018 I think that take charge men that more clearly play the traditional male role are usually attracted to women who seem to "need" to be led and taken care of, where it's very clear what the roles are. Even when I was married, I took care of all of our personal business and my husband traveled extensively for work leaving me alone to take care of pretty much everything. I'm very independent and decisive. That seems to attract more passive men, which is really frustrating to me because I would like to at least occasionally be in a more passive role. It sounds like you have those similar traits and are experiencing the same results in who you attract. Honestly, I think the men who appear to be more "alpha" sometimes underneath it all are the most insecure and needy of attention. The more passive guys in my experience actually are more confident and well balanced. But that doesn't help it be less frustrating! 1
Dis Posted September 7, 2018 Posted September 7, 2018 Hey Lor! Good to see you still here! So this guy seems to initiate convos, shows high interest, plans dates (so do you), treats you well so far, seems stable and reliable... all good things! Try not to over think things. I can almost guarantee you the guy you'll end up with will not check off every box you have. The older I've gotten, the more I realize no one is perfect and every relationship is flawed even if it's a healthy one. If we followed every rule we were told, if we refused to accept anything we found less than appealing, we'd be single forever. Don't get me wrong, we should never settle. But there is such a thing as being too picky. Take the reins and plan a date! If you really don't want to plan a dinner date, plan something else and then suggest a dinner date next time. Don't let this guy go just because of one minor thing. I hardly think he would turn out to be passive when thus far, he's hasn't been. He just likes participation in dating which I understand. Try to relax, don't overthink. Just have fun and look at the positives too! 3
Happy Lemming Posted September 7, 2018 Posted September 7, 2018 The second date could maybe count as him planning, but it was still me showing him around my area and leading the way. Is he unfamiliar with your town/city?? I wouldn't expect him to know all the good places to eat and where to go if he was not from that area... Or has he just moved to the area??
salparadise Posted September 8, 2018 Posted September 8, 2018 I don't expect men to pick up the bill and I pay for myself, mentioned that in my other posts. Poor men having to take the lead. But if a woman is keen on seeing each other and actively plans things, most men get lazy, start taking it for granted and feel like the chase is over. Been there done that. Actually, I didn't set the pattern, because after I initiated the first date, I told him that's not how I usually like it and he said he's gonna make it up for it. No mind reading. The second date could maybe count as him planning, but it was still me showing him around my area and leading the way. So I don't see how am I just sitting back and letting him do all the work. We did end up booking in the date for tomorrow and it's probably gonna be fun, but I still have a problem with how the whole thing went. It's still a place I came up so I don't feel asked out. I know you're paying your share and doing more than most. That middle paragraph was not about you––it was about my experiences and how tired I am of everything being about gender roles rather that two people working on things together, both contributing spontaneously and somewhat equally. I hope you have a good date tomorrow. Try not to let this little thing become a big deal. You might want to drop a hint, or even have a discussion. I'm sure he wants to do what it takes to make things work out, but all of these feelings you've expressed here are not things that he's aware are bothering you. Look beneath the surface and discover the person.
gaius Posted September 8, 2018 Posted September 8, 2018 Jazz clubs and won't even ask you out, sounds like he's a loser that ate another loser and now they're one big combined mega loser. Good luck with that!
MaleIntuition Posted September 8, 2018 Posted September 8, 2018 We did end up booking in the date for tomorrow and it's probably gonna be fun, but I still have a problem with how the whole thing went. It's still a place I came up so I don't feel asked out. The issue I have with this approach is summed up as follows, this is not really about you Lorenza, just some thoughts: When young and innocent we use our feelings to feel, we allow our intuition to dream about possible features and our sensation to enjoy the moments. Along the way we get hurt, wind up in bad relationships, dumped prematurely. So we start to protect our feelings; force ourselves to not dream - from now on; let logic rule. Our past failures get scrutinised, the ins and outs are figured out, pseudoscience and online gurus provide plausible explanations. Next time we shall not be this naive, next time we shall let them prove themselves. The internal checklist are born; is he paying? Asking for proper dates? Behaving chivalrous enough? Does he have a car? An apartment? Initiating intimacy at precisely the right moments? Thin, muscular or fat? Enough, yet not to much past relationship experience? And don’t forget texting: To much and he is a needy loser. To little; does he even care? When feelings, intuition and sensation are removed from the equation we can finally see things with clarity. The key to finding our perfect match now lies in creating the perfect checklist. The men whom gets it; for them it’s easy. Figuring out what her checklist are becomes a sport, a game. No more feelings, no more sensing or day dreaming. Cold. Harsh. Logic: Perfect. Plan dates. Pay. Kiss her at the end of the first date. Invite her home on the forth. Just follow the script until you’ve checked all her boxes. When all are checked she will allow herself to finally feel, to dream and to just be; after all - you’ve passed the test: Victory. 1
salparadise Posted September 8, 2018 Posted September 8, 2018 Our past failures get scrutinised, the ins and outs are figured out, pseudoscience and online gurus provide plausible explanations. Next time we shall not be this naive, next time we shall let them prove themselves. The internal checklist are born; is he paying? Asking for proper dates? Behaving chivalrous enough? Does he have a car? An apartment? Initiating intimacy at precisely the right moments? Thin, muscular or fat? Enough, yet not to much past relationship experience? And don’t forget texting: To much and he is a needy loser. To little; does he even care? It is quite a narrow tunnel of perception through which to judge a person's value... and has little or no relevance to what is, as might be envisioned with an open mind. It's all inward focus, defensive posturing... am I receiving everything to which I've decided that I am entitled? It's all about me; why doesn't he get that?
bathtub-row Posted September 8, 2018 Posted September 8, 2018 This passive stuff on his part is eventually going to make you nuts. It’s just a sliver of what’s to come. If you’re having issues this early in the game, that’s a bad sign. 1
Author Lorenza Posted September 8, 2018 Author Posted September 8, 2018 The date was quite fun, but mostly due to the activity we did. Other than that, I don't think I'm gonna meet him again. He's trying to get closer to me and show affection, also he talks how I'm gonna meet his friends and stuff like that, but there are things that just kills the vibe for me. For example, he doesn't know what to ask me. He tells a lot of stories about himself and I ask questions to take it further, but afterwards I just have to volunteer my part. He laughs at my jokes, so I end up fooling around instead of having a real conversation, cause I just don't want to sit and listen to more travel stories or stories about his friends etc. I want to talk about something personal, where we can both actively participate. He's definitely trying his best to keep me interested but it's not working. It will surely work for someone else, just not for me personally. My brain automatically friendzones a guy I can't talk to about some deep personal stuff. There were some other things that indicated incompatibility. We had dinner and an activity, which ended up being really costly, or at least I thought so - I'm just a student with an extra job for an income. But he really wanted to go get drinks afterwards as well. When he was about to order, he asked me if I'm gonna get something, but I said that I can't spend more money tonight and he was like "Oh, ok, I understand". I know I said I don't expect a guy to pay, but I did make some snacks and a termoss of tea for our walk in nature, also shared with him my milkshake at the restaurant, so it would have been nice if he suggested to get me at least a soda or something (I don't drink alcohol). We sat there at the bar, he had his drinks and I had nothing. Also, I had a surgery a week ago and I need to take painkillers every 5 hours for the pain I'm still experiencing. I started getting the pain pretty suddenly and needed to take the pill asap, but I didn't have any water with me since we were in the middle of doing the activity. He didn't figure out to get me some water, instead went on with his turn. I ended up getting the water for myself. Even a friend would go get it for me, but he just genuinely doesn't understand. So when he tried to kiss me goodbye, I turned the cheek cause I was just not feeling it. Afterwards he sent me all the pictures he took of me and wrote how I should always take him to places so he can take pictures of me, but I was super short with him
SunnyWeather Posted September 8, 2018 Posted September 8, 2018 Afterwards he sent me all the pictures he took of me and wrote how I should always take him to places so he can take pictures of me, but I was super short with him :sick: NO, just a big NO. It was good you got to see this one last time for yourself, it should leave no doubt. Your incompatibility is crystal clear. The part about the bar at the end of the night was especially telling, as well as not having the care of awareness to get you some water. NO! Next...
CollinW Posted September 9, 2018 Posted September 9, 2018 Poor men having to take the lead. But if a woman is keen on seeing each other and actively plans things, most men get lazy, start taking it for granted and feel like the chase is over. Poor you for actually having to make yourself useful. Men only get lazy if they feel they're the ones doing all the work with nothing to show for it. Right now you're in an equitable situation, why you're saying is it isn't good enough and you're not coming out on top. You seem to be one of those women more concerned with stereotypes of "romance" opposed to enjoying another person's company. He's the one who should be looking out. 1
bathtub-row Posted September 9, 2018 Posted September 9, 2018 Raise your expectations. If you want a man who takes the lead, expect him to pay. Get out of this mode of paying for the first few dates. True alpha men are actually insulted to have a woman pay. If a guy expected me to pay, I’d pay and that would be the last he’d see of me. 1
Happy Lemming Posted September 9, 2018 Posted September 9, 2018 Raise your expectations. If you want a man who takes the lead, expect him to pay. Get out of this mode of paying for the first few dates. True alpha men are actually insulted to have a woman pay. If a guy expected me to pay, I’d pay and that would be the last he’d see of me. I always paid, there was never a question... The only way I would let a woman pay for a date is if we had been dating a while and she wanted to take me out for my birthday... Otherwise, I'm paying. If I can't afford to pay for the date, I'm not going to ask her out or I'm going to plan something inexpensive. In my youth, my dinner dates were often treated to a restaurant called "Po Folks"... It was all I could afford at that time, but we ate. Ahh... Memories... 3
mortensorchid Posted September 9, 2018 Posted September 9, 2018 I don't see why you can't at least suggest something to do. He did ask what you wanted after all, and you're answering what you want or will want. Suggest some things and then see what he says.
Author Lorenza Posted September 9, 2018 Author Posted September 9, 2018 Raise your expectations. If you want a man who takes the lead, expect him to pay. Get out of this mode of paying for the first few dates. True alpha men are actually insulted to have a woman pay. If a guy expected me to pay, I’d pay and that would be the last he’d see of me. To me it's not about the money, I just want someone who's caring and can take the lead when needed. Here where I live it's not as common for guys to pay for dates as it is in the US but I do accept if someone's offering it with sincerity. If it sounds like they're just asking but expecting me to say no, I say no. But a lot of men won't even offer it, cause it's not expected of them, so I usually pick up my part of the bill without hesitating.
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