Red flags or am I being stupid?

[ozzies]

I'm a 44m in a seven-month relationship with a 40f, and I need some advice on whether some issues are dealbreakers, nothing or an indication I'm the problem.

 

About me: I'm not an experienced dater at all, and I'm very open to the possibility my perspective is all screwed up here. I was married 20 years, divorced (quick dissolution), went online, met someone quickly, dated for about nine months, broke up, went back online, met this girl and we've been dating since.

 

About her: she was married for almost as long. They separated and went through a long divorce. She started dating someone a couple months before the divorce went through, and they broke up after about 10 months or so. After the divorce and before her breakup with this other guy, her ex died.

 

She was unattached for about a month and a half before we got together. I was single for about three weeks.

 

We get along really well, don't fight, agree on most things, enjoy being active together, like the same beer, have similar long-term intentions, have traveled together without incident, etc. She's a kind, caring person, and we share many of the same social, political and religious values.

 

But there are a few things that just keep gnawing at my gut. We've talked about a few of them, but the gnawing won't go away. I would appreciate any advice on what I need to address in a direct fashion with her or if I should just drop any of them -- or if you would consider something an instant dealbreaker and I'm being naive in continuing this relationship.

 

TLDR: Modern dating novice asks if these things are really red flags or something he should just get over.

 

* She is still emotionally processing ex-husband. This isn't just my interpretation. She tells me after visits with her therapist that she "just spent the last hour re-processing my ex and I'm exhausted." I worry that she's not ready to move on/have a serious relationship despite saying she is. (As an aside, she still calls her ex's mom her mother-in-law and says she always will be even though she constantly talks negatively about her and says she's a bad influence on her kids.)

 

* She goes to concerts with another guy "who is just a friend." I knew this guy was a close friend when we started dating but it was more of a group friend thing. She went to a concert with him alone and didn't specify until I guessed it from something she messaged me and I asked her. Part of me sees this as her going on a date with another guy (he's single, picked her up). She says he's just a friend ("her concert buddy"). We talked about it at length once. She listened to my concerns but gave no indication she would stop. Since that talk, they have gone to at least one more concert alone.

 

* She won't add me on Facebook because she says the guy she dated after her separation "did some strange stuff on social media after we broke up and I don't want to go through that again." I find that explanation groundless and a little insulting, to be honest, since it's applying his shortcomings to me. For the record, I have very little social media activity, and she knows this.

 

* She has shared that her her ex-husband felt that she was cheating on him with someone from her church before their separation. She also said that he told people that she gave all their money to the church. Since she willingly shared this, I'm guessing it was just his paranoia, but should I address it? If either were true, it would be a problem for me.

 

* I feel like a total d**k even bringing this up, but the guy she dated after her separation worked at a coffee shop, lived at home and she has described him as a compulsive liar. I have nothing against coffee shop workers, but for comparison I make six figures, came out way on top in my divorce and have other things going for me. Should I be concerned that she accepted and stuck with an almost 40-year-old making ~30k living in his parent's basement? Again, I'm not trying to feel superior here, but objectively speaking, is this a red flag?

 

Maybe only I can answer these next two based on my personal circumstance, but here they are:

 

* She has well over $50,000 in student loan debt. She says it is is on track to be forgiven due to her job. I haven't had any student loan debt since the late 1990s, but I read the papers and I know getting forgiveness isn't easy.

 

* Wants a small dog "to take on vacations"; I would be miserable taking a small dog on a vacation; I would give someone my full attention/affection on a couple's vacation and have zero interest in having to split that with a pet.

 

Sorry for the super long post, but thanks in advance for helping a confused guy out...

[BaileyB]

Hi there, welcome to LS.

 

You have shared many things, here are a few thoughts for you to consider...

 

The concert buddy wouldn't bother me too much - depending on the people involved. Have you met this man? I do believe that men and women can have purely platonic friendship. However, I would be concerned about her reluctance to consider your feelings and adjust her plans accordingly... It's the same with her refusal to Friend you on Facebook. A person who has nothing to hide, hides nothing...

 

As for the dog... Well, I wouldn't want to date somebody who wants to travel with their dog either! And, I have a dog - I don't travel with my dog... That's just not my idea of a good time on holiday... Again, the fact that she is unwilling to compromise or consider your opinion tells you something...

 

And finally, her previous choices for partners tells you a little something about her judgment. You are right to be cautious... Is there any reason why you can't continue to take this slowly, get to know her better before you make any big decisions. I would not be eager to move in with her anytime soon until she can show you that she is trustworthy, financially responsible (ie. pays off her debt), and a good partner (communicates well, able to consider your opinion and compromise).

Edited August 30, 2018 by BaileyB

[todreaminblue]

hey...i feel a red flag is anything you cant communicate openly with due diligence(meaning as soon as the issue happens) and have mutual respect for each others wishes by listening and understanding differences..... and then to reach a resolution or mutually appropriate compromise....if that cant happen ....big red flag....for any issue.....

 

 

if she is seeing a therapist to process her ex husband sounds like she is trying to move forward honestly

as far as having a dog on a vacay......smilin....i have more than one dog......and can understand completely the joy of taking a doggie for a holiday like campling or a beach holiday would be fun....i would however never contemplate buying a dog to simply take it on holiday...dogs live for up to fifteen years or longer especially small ones....and are a huge responsibility...i find it strange for her to mention buying a dog for a holiday trip.....strange....and unusual

 

i do understand your hesitation in this regard to a dog and understand you want one on one time thats completely fair enough and sane....not a lot of holiday places allow for pets....and it can be a very limiting holiday experience.....

 

if she is a kind and caring person all this should be able to be discussed and your views respected and a compromise reached....dont be scared to communicate with her how you feel and what you dont want or what you do want(she is kind and caring remember thAT)...

 

because if there is to be a resolve and a compromise made...its you two who can do it the best and you can resolve issues....if they are to be red flags.....its the ones that cant be resolved by open communication thaT WILL ALWAYS BE ....RED FLAGS...

 

i wish you well....deb

[ozzies]

Thank you very much for the responses.

 

About the concert friend...

 

I've met him. He is a good guy. Again, I feel bad saying this, but I wouldn't consider him a threat at all from a physical perspective. She's indicated there's no physical attraction.

 

What I hang up on, though, is I know guys, and I'm certain that while she may have no interest, I am almost positive he would and I feel she's leading him on whether she knows it or not.

 

Forget that it's not right to treat him that way, but I feel it's really disrespecting me to continue to spend time alone with someone she should know would have an interest in her if she would reciprocate.

[BaileyB]

Thank you very much for the responses.

 

About the concert friend...

 

I've met him. He is a good guy. Again, I feel bad saying this, but I wouldn't consider him a threat at all from a physical perspective. She's indicated there's no physical attraction.

 

What I hang up on, though, is I know guys, and I'm certain that while she may have no interest, I am almost positive he would and I feel she's leading him on whether she knows it or not.

 

Forget that it's not right to treat him that way, but I feel it's really disrespecting me to continue to spend time alone with someone she should know would have an interest in her if she would reciprocate.

 

Again, if you've shared your concerns with her and she shows no consideration for anyone's feelings but her own, that tells you something about her character.

 

Truth is, you have a valid concern. She also has the right to go to a concert with whoever she wants... It's the lack of consideration for both your feelings, and the other man's feelings, and her insistence that she will do what she wants to do that is the red flag here... in my humble opinion.

[SevenCity]

Again, if you've shared your concerns with her and she shows no consideration for anyone's feelings but her own, that tells you something about her character.

 

Truth is, you have a valid concern. She also has the right to go to a concert with whoever she wants... It's the lack of consideration for both your feelings, and the other man's feelings, and her insistence that she will do what she wants to do that is the red flag here... in my humble opinion.

 

I agree. When a woman really loves you, which she should after 7 months, she is not going to want to do anything that could potentially cause you to leave her.

 

She may be saying it, but she’s not acting it.

 

You are right to be concerned.

[ozzies]

She also has the right to go to a concert with whoever she wants... It's the lack of consideration for both your feelings, and the other man's feelings, and her insistence that she will do what she wants to do that is the red flag here...

 

I agree. I want to be clear I don't want to control her. If that's what she wants to do, OK! But I also don't have to date someone who goes on one-on-one outings with another guy if that's not what I want to do.

 

Thanks, again.

[todreaminblue]

I agree. I want to be clear I don't want to control her. If that's what she wants to do, OK! But I also don't have to date someone who goes on one-on-one outings with another guy if that's not what I want to do.

 

Thanks, again.

 

its not controlling at all to have concern and desire for her to respect how you feel and what you believe.....what would be controlling and inconsiderate is if she expected you to stay without resolution and just handle it..if she cares for you .....she will want to resolve this where you would be satisfied with the outcome...sometimes....sacrifice is part of a true compromise....and if you care for someone...its what you do......what is more important......will always...come first....deb

[ozzies]

Thank you very much, Deb.

 

Another item on the social media front.

 

I guess after our vacation she posted a bunch of photos but only ones that I wasn't in. I thought this was odd.

 

I found out because she she told me that a friend of hers called her out for not including photos of "her guy" in a comment. (She often discusses her social media interactions with me.) And she said that she added a picture in the comments to appease this person.

 

Also, the next day at her church (I go with her every Sunday), we were talking to another friend after the service. Her friend said that she really liked her vacation photos then looked at me and said, "oh, did you go?" So, obviously, I wasn't in them.

 

(Not that it matters, but this was a fairly expensive vacation that I paid 90% of the cost of.)

 

She has a lot of friends and she has introduced me to many from work, her church, etc. Out in public, she doesn't try to hide our relationship in any way and is fairly affectionate. She just seems to be very persistent about keeping me out of her Facebook, and I just can't accept it's because she thinks I'll do whatever it is the other guy (coffee guy, living at home, compulsive liar) did.

 

Again, maybe I'm dumb for letting this bother me, but it does, and I feel petty bringing it up to her.

[todreaminblue]

Thank you very much, Deb.

 

Another item on the social media front.

 

I guess after our vacation she posted a bunch of photos but only ones that I wasn't in. I thought this was odd.

 

I found out because she she told me that a friend of hers called her out for not including photos of "her guy" in a comment. (She often discusses her social media interactions with me.) And she said that she added a picture in the comments to appease this person.

 

Also, the next day at her church (I go with her every Sunday), we were talking to another friend after the service. Her friend said that she really liked her vacation photos then looked at me and said, "oh, did you go?" So, obviously, I wasn't in them.

 

(Not that it matters, but this was a fairly expensive vacation that I paid 90% of the cost of.)

 

She has a lot of friends and she has introduced me to many from work, her church, etc. Out in public, she doesn't try to hide our relationship in any way and is fairly affectionate. She just seems to be very persistent about keeping me out of her Facebook, and I just can't accept it's because she thinks I'll do whatever it is the other guy (coffee guy, living at home, compulsive liar) did.

 

Again, maybe I'm dumb for letting this bother me, but it does, and I feel petty bringing it up to her.

 

you arent being petty and its a legit concern you have ...i dont really understand her reasoning for not including photos of you on holiday seeing 90 per cent of it was all your doing.........and im a girl who is private on social media....i wouldnt include photos of me ....i would include photos of the guy i was with though( i just hate my photo taken or showing my face ....which i am trying to get over and it aint workin.....)so i am a panorama girl.....views or whatever on holidays and the people i am with love taking photos of them.......and even with my privacy if i am in a relationship my guy would be recognised on mymedia...as being in a relationship with me....

 

 

whoever your girls ex is...he aint you.....and she need to recognise that first and foremost....if she cant do that...you have a legitimate red flag....please talk to her and if you decide to post more on yoUR communication maybe i can understand her point of view more...at the moment...i am not feeling it at aLL.. needs a bit of clarification.....DEB......

[FMW]

If it bothers you, you shouldn't feel dumb or petty bringing it up to her. I can see how you might feel she's excluding you from her social media presence and experience. I have no social media presence beyond my LinkedIn account for business purposes so I don't know why she is trying to keep that part of her life separate.

[ozzies]

Again, thank you all very much. This has been very helpful.

 

I really do like her, and outside of the few bullets above things are really good. She's great in so many ways.

 

Despite the concert friend and the social media stuff, I do trust she wouldn't actually date or hook up with someone else without breaking it off with me first. Emotionally, though, I do feel "cheated on" and we'll need to address this more definitively, or I'll need to move on. I can't just drop it.

 

Deb, you are right about her work with the therapist. She is working through it, and it's helpful for me to remember that. From a practical perspective, though, I wonder if she'll ever fully process this? Our relationship is where it is because she insisted very early on that she had no hang-ups with her past and was ready to commit to finding "the one." She didn't tell me how much she's still processing her ex (husband not boyfriend) until recently.

 

While they could become big issues on their own, I consider the financial and pet concerns fairly simple. They're pretty straightforward with not much to interpret, and we'll either come to an agreement/understanding there or we won't.

[preraph]

It's normal she is processing her ex, especially the one who died. Normal. Has guilt.

 

Her friend is probably fine.

I don't blame her for not wanting you on Facebook. It may be her private place to be with friends and also she had a bad situation before. Maybe she'll let you snoop without her friending you to ease your mind.

 

You don't like dogs, so I can't really say anything helpful to you about that because I think if you can't love a dog, you can't love anyone.

 

You can just wait and keep getting to know her and talk about this stuff. You need to tell her you don't like dogs because this could make the whole thing just go away if she's a big dog lover. Good luck.

[ozzies]

You don't like dogs, so I can't really say anything helpful to you about that because I think if you can't love a dog, you can't love anyone.

 

Actually, I do like dogs. I just can't imagine bringing a small dog on a couple's vacation. It seems like everything would revolve around the dog.

[rightondude]

Just a quick question, how do you expect these issues to go away unless they are addressed? Or at least discussed? Or are you just planning to "deal with it" for the duration of the relationship? Cause brother that's a recipe for disaster cake.

 

Are you two "facebook official" yet? if not, I hate to say it, but sounds like she's hiding you or her status from someone.

[Lotsgoingon]

Seems to me you're working really hard here at the start of the relationship ... working hard to analyze threats and analyze her behavior and to stay balanced.

 

Just my two cents, whenever I had had to work hard and think really hard early on in a relationship, that always meant there were big problems. But that's just me.

 

How long have you guys been dating?

[rightondude]

said 7 months in the OP. About the time most people start getting annoyed :-)

[ozzies]

said 7 months in the OP. About the time most people start getting annoyed :-)

 

Lol! You could be right!

 

To answer the previous question, no we are not "Facebook official" and yes I've thought the same thing about hiding. However, her profile/friends/activity is all public, which isn't consistent with hiding, so I don't know...

 

We have discussed most of this a few times, and I bring up the FB thing occasionally. She just sticks to her line that the last guy got weird and she doesn't want to blend things. I tell her that doesn't make sense and that's where the conversation ends.

 

I don't plan to just deal with it indefinitely, but there is time here before all this stuff needs resolved due to our work/kid/housing situations. Basically, we're in a holding pattern until fall 2019 at least before either of us could move or plan to move.

 

So, I'm not in a huge rush at this point, but I am starting to feel the itch that it's time to clear this stuff up, which is how I ended up on this forum.

 

Again, thanks for all the help. Very beneficial!

[Orokotikki]

I find almost all your potential red flags to be red flags... How long since your divorce or did I miss it stated? Is this your first relationship after the D?

 

Does sound like she's hiding you... is that comment still up with you in the picture? Not that it is incredibly telling if it is, but if it isn't or disappears soon...

[ozzies]

I find almost all your potential red flags to be red flags... How long since your divorce or did I miss it stated? Is this your first relationship after the D?

 

Does sound like she's hiding you... is that comment still up with you in the picture? Not that it is incredibly telling if it is, but if it isn't or disappears soon...

 

Split in February 2017. Divorce was final in May 2017. I started a relationship in April 2017 that was pretty great honestly, until she had an emotional freak-out around Christmas and then ghosted me.

 

I laid low for a week or so, dove back in and then started this relationship after a couple more weeks or so.

 

Great point on the picture. Unfortunately, I can't see that photo album, which I guess means it's private? Red flag, I guess? I will ask her about the picture, though.

 

The justification I keep coming back to on her behalf is she's introduced me to pretty much all of her circles, including family and her old high school friends. Her friend list is public, and I recognize a large number of them. There are very few guy FB friends I don't recognize.

 

However, she has mentioned she keeps her work separate (although I have met a couple of her co-workers) as a reason not to invite me to a couple social work things. If there's anyone on FB she doesn't want to know about me, it most likely is some guy she works with.

 

She has something after work tomorrow. I'll try to butt in and see what happens.

[Normm]

I don't like the whole FB thing. She either doesn't trust you or she doesn't want other people to know you're together.

 

I don't like her response to your concerns about the concert buddy. In a trusting, committed caring relationship, you make your partner comfortable and secure. If your partner has an issue with an opposite gender friend, then you make it right. She clearly doesn't give a rat's ass what you think.

 

The dog on vacation thing is just plain weird.

 

Maybe those aren't dealbreakers for you but they would be for me.

 

 

The other items on your list could be considered yellow flags but there are ALWAYS yellow flags.

[ozzies]

I don't like the whole FB thing. She either doesn't trust you or she doesn't want other people to know you're together.

 

I don't like her response to your concerns about the concert buddy. In a trusting, committed caring relationship, you make your partner comfortable and secure. If your partner has an issue with an opposite gender friend, then you make it right. She clearly doesn't give a rat's ass what you think.

 

The dog on vacation thing is just plain weird.

 

Maybe those aren't dealbreakers for you but they would be for me.

 

The other items on your list could be considered yellow flags but there are ALWAYS yellow flags.

 

Thanks, Normm. Good perspective. The FB thing and the concert buddy are two that we have discussed and I feel she hasn't really responded in a satisfying way, meaning my feelings are being brushed aside.

 

With everything I ask in a relationship (did this with my ex wife and first post-divorce girlfriend), I always put myself in the other person's place and ask, "what would I do?"

 

Regarding the concert buddy, I wouldn't go in the first place! Ever! I consider it a point of pride to put the woman I'm with on a pedestal and to have exclusive feelings for her. I know this is an empty claim on an anonymous forum, but since it's anonymous, I have no incentive to lie, but I never cheated on my ex wife even when she emotionally detached from the marriage. It feels good to be loyal.

 

So, considering I believe loyalty is so important, it hurts when I don't get what I give.

 

That said, what I've also learned during my short stint back into dating is that perspectives are different. No, I wouldn't go to a concert with another single woman who isn't my sister, but I also don't have any single women platonic friends I've known for a few years. I feel that to be fair, I need to see her decision to go to the concerts with him using her perspective, not mine.

 

However, stretching to see it through her perspective is something I came to on my own. She didn't lead me there, so again I wonder if I'm not being too charitable and naive?

 

Thanks again for everyone's insight.

[kendahke]

If they are enough of a dealbreaker FOR YOU, then that's all you need to end this. Doesn't matter what anyone else's dealbreakers are because they aren't you and they aren't dealing with your girlfriend.

 

Break up with her already.