How to stop friendzone on 1st Tinder date tonight?

[rightondude]

I don't know what you're doing on Tinder. Tinder originated as a hookup place so pretty much everyone expects you to be looking for sex first and we'll see about a relationship.

 

I think this used to be true a lot more than it is today. Most profiles now at least state "NOT LOOKING FOR A HOOKUP!!!!" (whether or not that's true probably depends on the match). People are using it to just date and/or find relationships.

[MissBee]

After being put in the friendzone with the last woman I liked I don't want that to happen to happen again.

 

Tonight I'm meeting someone from Tinder and we've rescheduled once after I cancelled. I don't know much about her other than her looks and what she does for a living. We're meeting at a restaurant that is kind of interesting and there is an area we can walk around afterwards.

 

From what I've seen about getting put into the friendzone it's because you give off some kind of "beta vibe" or something. I tend to get extremely nervous and stiff on 1st or even 2nd dates, but I think I'm getting better at it. I'm almost 40 and have never initiated a 1st kiss w/a woman so that's a big deal for me.

 

I've got another prospect from OLD that wants to meet up, so if I mess this one up it's not the end of the world.

 

I don't believe being friendzoned is about anything you're doing wrong.

 

It seems like your question is: how can I guarantee that this person will like me and want to date me??!

 

And the answer is, you can't. That's literally just a part of life and dating. Sometimes stuff will progress to more and a lot of times it doesn't. Dating is discovering and lots of times it just doesn't work. I've been on way more first dates that didn't go anywhere than dates that made it past date 1 and even after date 1 some dates still never lasted beyond several more dates etc....

 

Even when you finally get a relationship, there is no way to ensure that will last forever either. Be yourself...a woman will like you or she won't, just like you can like her or not. Which seems to be what is missing, you're so worried about this woman not friend zoning you when you even admit you don't know anything about her. So how have you already determined she is even someone you want to see more than once . That's the problem, you can't be in a mode where you seem desperate for anyone to like you and where it seems like you don't even care about or have even considered you could also not like them. My assumption on any date is that we're going to see...and they will like me or not just like how I can also end up liking them or not.

[Larry56]

This is Tinder so as you said she wouldn't have swiped right if she wasn't interested and I don't think she'd chat and agree to meet up and reschedule if she had no interest in meeting up.

 

Is there something I'm doing wrong in these chats or am I just running into a bunch of inconsiderate jerks? I'm getting extremely frustrated.

 

Well...Sorry to break to you but women operate in two modes on tinder. Don't feel bad, this happens to around 80% of guys on tinder. Look up tinder dating economy if you want to get perspective on the fact that women on tinder find 80% of the men unattractive/average.

 

So let me explain what happens on tinder when a woman sees.

 

Hot Guy/Good Genes/Well Dressed = Mostly Hard Yes's to Dates, Easy to set up etc, girl will make an effort etc.

Average Guy/Poorly Dressed = I might meet up when I feel like it or have nothing better to do or I will just use him as a text buddy for attention. Women who aren't attracted to you will use you for attention because it feeds their ego and gets them through their day.

 

Bro, I am trying to help you understand that if you are an average guy going for chicks you find really attractive you are going to run into problems. You are acting boring/needy in your texts and you are not exciting the woman because you're too scared to say what you think. Again if you are a bit boring BUT HOT you are OK as women will make excuses for it but if you are average and acting average the woman is not going to FEEL like meeting up with you.

 

When it comes to tinder it's Looks > Status > Job

In the real world it's everything all together.

 

I would like women to understand that by telling the OP that this is just a particular woman's type of behavior is NOT HELPFUL as it's more a reflection of how women generally feel about him (it's OK OP as most of us red-pilled guys know the truth). We know you're experiencing the same thing over and over again.

[mossycup]

I'm simply saying that there is sexual tension in a romance. In friendship there is not. Romance is highly emotional. Friendship is logical. You don't logically fall in love with someone. I guess saying that women don't know what they want was a poor choice of words. Nonetheless, a man or woman won't pursue someone who they don't have romantic feelings for even if that person meets all there requirements for a mate. My advice to kiss early let's the other person know where you stand and if you're lucky might create a superficial romance or sexual tension that gets you another date. It's not going to work all the time but it stacks the deck in your favor from the start. Plus it helps you not waste time with someone who really isn't into you.

 

Yeah ok this makes sense to me. Thanks for explaining.

[mossycup]

Well...Sorry to break to you but women operate in two modes on tinder. Don't feel bad, this happens to around 80% of guys on tinder. Look up tinder dating economy if you want to get perspective on the fact that women on tinder find 80% of the men unattractive/average.

 

So let me explain what happens on tinder when a woman sees.

 

Hot Guy/Good Genes/Well Dressed = Mostly Hard Yes's to Dates, Easy to set up etc, girl will make an effort etc.

Average Guy/Poorly Dressed = I might meet up when I feel like it or have nothing better to do or I will just use him as a text buddy for attention. Women who aren't attracted to you will use you for attention because it feeds their ego and gets them through their day.

 

Bro, I am trying to help you understand that if you are an average guy going for chicks you find really attractive you are going to run into problems. You are acting boring/needy in your texts and you are not exciting the woman because you're too scared to say what you think. Again if you are a bit boring BUT HOT you are OK as women will make excuses for it but if you are average and acting average the woman is not going to FEEL like meeting up with you.

 

When it comes to tinder it's Looks > Status > Job

In the real world it's everything all together.

 

I would like women to understand that by telling the OP that this is just a particular woman's type of behavior is NOT HELPFUL as it's more a reflection of how women generally feel about him (it's OK OP as most of us red-pilled guys know the truth). We know you're experiencing the same thing over and over again.

 

I appreciate the honesty of this. I am an average looking woman and almost 40 also so I know I'm not high status. I NEVER swipe on hot guys. I just know I'm not going to have success there. I swipe for interesting and kind looking guys, who are in decent physical shape and dress ok. I reject men who look like drug addicts, really unhealthy, or look aggressive/too macho (just not my type). I also reject any guy who says "he's not into drama". Anyone who has to say that is probably into drama, lol. But I digress. Point is, I think people should be honest with themselves and each other about the dating hierarchy. It's just how humans operate. Occasionally things will be different, for sure, in particular situations, but I think it's pretty safe to recognize that status exists.

 

And that doesn't mean it's like, inherent. The fact is good looking people are treated better from birth, gain more confidence, and it's an upward spiral. In our hearts we are all equal and wonderful beings, but in the social world, it's survival of the hottest. But if we can be realistic about our status, we can find a good match.

[Larry56]

I appreciate the honesty of this. I am an average looking woman and almost 40 also so I know I'm not high status. I NEVER swipe on hot guys. I just know I'm not going to have success there. I swipe for interesting and kind looking guys, who are in decent physical shape and dress ok. I reject men who look like drug addicts, really unhealthy, or look aggressive/too macho (just not my type). I also reject any guy who says "he's not into drama". Anyone who has to say that is probably into drama, lol. But I digress. Point is, I think people should be honest with themselves and each other about the dating hierarchy.

 

Yes! I agree. Young girls are going to be appealed more by looks and maturer women are not going to be looking for that stuff so much except where it matters most eg: Height/Has a good Job/Personality.

[max3732]

Yes, it's the most scary thing you'll ever do in your life. I'd rather go into front line battle. But as I've said in my above posts, you have to do it. If you don't you are going to kick this dating can down the road the rest of your life.

 

There are a couple of theads here about how women are attracted to confident, masculine, alpha men and at least initially thats what they need to get their fire stoked enough for a second or third date.

 

I hate to break this to you, but if a girl gives you the signals that its ok to kiss her and you don't, shes will move on because she will percieve you as weak. That is the #1 reason why its so important to kiss on the first couple dates.

 

What are the signals?

[fromheart]

OK, here is how it went.

 

As I mentioned we had rescheduled and she said she wanted to meet for dinner then and asked if I could do it. I told her I could so I figured we had something setup.

 

After posting here I sent something confirming the time and location and got no response. Then a few hours before we were supposed to meet I sent something else asking if we were still on as she suggested and got nothing.

 

 

This is where you bail out. Never reach out again. At least now you know how she may well act further down the line, a decent person would be respectful about it. In that case scenario she's worth leaving a positive impression with; 'Hey no problem, well let me know if you change your mind,' then strict NC.

 

Western relationships were disposable before the age of the net, now its become a joke. People hook up and dump with the click of a mouse. If you want something serious, I'd recommend not looking for it online. If you just want to date, then be prepared for this sort of treatment and to be regarded as a dating profile with a p~nis.

[max3732]

This is where you bail out. Never reach out again. At least now you know how she may well act further down the line, a decent person would be respectful about it. In that case scenario she's worth leaving a positive impression with; 'Hey no problem, well let me know if you change your mind,' then strict NC.

 

Western relationships were disposable before the age of the net, now its become a joke. People hook up and dump with the click of a mouse. If you want something serious, I'd recommend not looking for it online. If you just want to date, then be prepared for this sort of treatment and to be regarded as a dating profile with a p~nis.

 

Where should I be looking? I tried eharmony/match for a few years and spent a lot of time reading profiles/sending messages and got few responses and most of those vanished after a few messages. I drove 25 minutes to meet someone that never showed up after confirming we were meeting that morning and did meet a few people, but didn't click with any of them. Now I'm on bumble and tinder.

 

In real life I'm involved in sports, photography, and have done a couple speed dating events. The few single women I've met and started trying for a relationship moved away. After all that time and money still no progress on a real relationship and I'm extremely frustrated.

[d0nnivain]

Are you involved in any photography groups? Have you ever taken or taught any adult education classes about photography? Try that.

 

Do you play any co-ed sports? If not start.

[fromheart]

Where should I be looking? I tried eharmony/match for a few years and spent a lot of time reading profiles/sending messages and got few responses and most of those vanished after a few messages. I drove 25 minutes to meet someone that never showed up after confirming we were meeting that morning and did meet a few people, but didn't click with any of them. Now I'm on bumble and tinder.

 

In real life I'm involved in sports, photography, and have done a couple speed dating events. The few single women I've met and started trying for a relationship moved away. After all that time and money still no progress on a real relationship and I'm extremely frustrated.

 

Stop looking for it, just work on your own contentment. Interact with women from that point, but in real life not online.

[max3732]

Stop looking for it, just work on your own contentment. Interact with women from that point, but in real life not online.

 

That's what I've been doing my whole life. At this point the only thing I'm missing is a wife and kids. I run my own business and am financial successful, am a high level athlete, also do strength training and am in great shape, have a whole bunch of interests and can't get a girlfriend which is extremely frustrating.

 

As I've said I get extremely nervous around women my own age or ones that are prospects because it's so rare. Almost everything that I do I'm around guys or older married women or sometimes girls in their early 20s. If I go on FB or talk to a lot of my friends they all talk about their wives and/or kids so my being single is starting to hurt me with them too.

 

I've got to do something to change this.

[d0nnivain]

Since you run your own business how often do you go to business networking events like Chamber of Commerce meetings or business card exchanges? Start attending them, at least once per week. You will boost sales but you will also meet tons of new people. I met my husband at a business card exchange.

[PRW]

Secondly, friendzone. For me, if I suggest friendship first when I'm with a man, it's because I don't know him at all and need time to establish trust

Pretty much never works. Once you start thinking of a guy as your "buddy" it is nearly impossible to flip the emotional switch back to "romantic" and to see the guy in a sexualized way.

 

Friends first, romantic later,....almost never works

 

Romantic first, friends if it fails,...is the way it is in real life.

[nospam99]

Where should I be looking? I tried eharmony/match for a few years and spent a lot of time reading profiles/sending messages and got few responses and most of those vanished after a few messages. I drove 25 minutes to meet someone that never showed up after confirming we were meeting that morning and did meet a few people, but didn't click with any of them. Now I'm on bumble and tinder.

 

 

IMO, forget eharmony. And unless all you want is NSA, forget bumble and tinder, too. I've had what I call success with match. Hard to say in your case not knowing parameters. As a 64 y/o male, I filter carefully on age, location, appearance, the personality that comes across in her essay, common interests, and all or almost all hits on What She's Looking For before sending a message.

 

Along those lines I recently was in a mild 'argument' here on LS about height. I believe that if a woman puts a minumum height requirement in her match profile, she's serious about it. Her behavior may be self-defeating and not what she'd do in 'the real world', but she's serious. Others here disagreed. So I tried sending messages to women whose profiles would indicate I'm 'too short'. Although I'm getting almost 30% response on match, I'm getting 0% from those 'too short' contacts. Someone else pointed out that match even lets users automatically filter messages based on height so 'too short' messages might not even make it to the Inbox

[JuneL]

Since you’ve been on so few dates and would be frozen up around women of your age, do you think you can just ask out some women who are usually not your type just so that you can have more experience interacting with women of your age? If I were you, I would try going on dates with single mothers. Sometimes when you become a mother, you understand that those superficial traits are just superficial and may be more willing to overlook a guy’s social awkwardness if he’s otherwise a good guy who has his $hit together.

Edited August 28, 2018 by JuneL

[max3732]

This is where you bail out. Never reach out again. At least now you know how she may well act further down the line, a decent person would be respectful about it. In that case scenario she's worth leaving a positive impression with; 'Hey no problem, well let me know if you change your mind,' then strict NC.

 

Western relationships were disposable before the age of the net, now its become a joke. People hook up and dump with the click of a mouse. If you want something serious, I'd recommend not looking for it online. If you just want to date, then be prepared for this sort of treatment and to be regarded as a dating profile with a p~nis.

 

To follow up on what happened with her I got a message again asking for Saturday night. No apology or explanation. I asked what happened last Saturday and she says she forgot and didn't check the app.

 

As I'm not a doormat I don't want to let her (or anyone) walk all over me, but also need the practice meeting women. There's no way I'm giving up my Saturday night to her again without meeting her and finding out if she's as forgetful or inconsiderate as it appears from these messages or if by some chance she made an honest mistake. Would it make sense to tell her I'm not willing to commit to Saturday night after last time, but would be willing to meet either in the morning or afternoon during the weekend? Or am I setting myself up for hurt again and should I just forget her?

[rightondude]

No apology? Man you don't need that kind of practice. Maybe you could practice setting up a date and then you forgetting to show up, but you're better than that.

[Juha]

Pretty much never works. Once you start thinking of a guy as your "buddy" it is nearly impossible to flip the emotional switch back to "romantic" and to see the guy in a sexualized way.

 

Friends first, romantic later,....almost never works

 

Romantic first, friends if it fails,...is the way it is in real life.

 

Agree with this 100% A friends sister and I had known each other for years, she had a bf. They broke up and there always seemed to be something between us. After a year I told her how I felt around her and should go out and see how things went.

 

Will not date me because I am her brothers friend and there is something between us. I told her then it's best if we don't know each other anymore then as I really do have strong feelings for her. If she doe shave interest to let me know as I think we would be great

 

She did not understand and got bent out of shape. Get a text now and again, don't go to anything my friends have people over for as she will be there or if I do go I say hi to her and go about my business...

[PRW]

After a year I told her how I felt around her and should go out and see how things went.

 

You could not have approached it any worse than that. "Tell her how I felt" AND "go out and see how things went" are both the worst possible thing you could have said. Her response was textbook and expected. You just offer them a date, not ask,...offer,...and give a specific time and place.

 

I did the same stupid stuff years ago,...I speak from experience.

 

Will not date me because I am her brothers friend and there is something between us.

Textbook excuse the woman gives in that situation.

 

I told her then it's best if we don't know each other anymore then as I really do have strong feelings for her.

That sounds butt hurt. Telling a girl you don't want to be "just friends" is fine when they are basically a stranger, but not when you already known them for years.

 

If she doe shave interest to let me know as I think we would be great

That come across as pleading or groveling. Don't do that anymore.

 

She did not understand and got bent out of shape.

Of course she did. Also textbook. She feels betrayed from when you "surprised" her with your tossing up your "feelings" at her.

 

Get a text now and again, don't go to anything my friends have people over for as she will be there or if I do go I say hi to her and go about my business...

That comes across as High Schoolish and butt hurt.

I know you aren't the OP in this thread, but start looking at YouTube videos on the concept of "The Orbiter", even if you aren't technically an Orbiter you still approached her like one. The videos you find will explain it.