max3732 Posted August 25, 2018 Posted August 25, 2018 After being put in the friendzone with the last woman I liked I don't want that to happen to happen again. Tonight I'm meeting someone from Tinder and we've rescheduled once after I cancelled. I don't know much about her other than her looks and what she does for a living. We're meeting at a restaurant that is kind of interesting and there is an area we can walk around afterwards. From what I've seen about getting put into the friendzone it's because you give off some kind of "beta vibe" or something. I tend to get extremely nervous and stiff on 1st or even 2nd dates, but I think I'm getting better at it. I'm almost 40 and have never initiated a 1st kiss w/a woman so that's a big deal for me. I've got another prospect from OLD that wants to meet up, so if I mess this one up it's not the end of the world.
Redhead14 Posted August 25, 2018 Posted August 25, 2018 (edited) Just be yourself every single time and relax. You cannot make "adjustments" to yourself based on the reaction of previous dating prospects. Everyone is different. What turns off one prospect, may be appealing to another. Always be yourself, always. If you try to be something you're not, you're not being authentic to start with. That is difficult to maintain for very long. What happens is, that the person starts feeling like you've changed, when in fact what's happening is you're revealing your true self and that wouldn't have worked for the other person anyway. Edited August 25, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Redacted full quote of OP
BaileyB Posted August 25, 2018 Posted August 25, 2018 I agree. Be yourself and try to have a good time with her. Remember, this is your opportunity to get to know her and decide if SHE is right, for YOU. 1
carhill Posted August 25, 2018 Posted August 25, 2018 Here's my take... You cancelled and she accepted when you rescheduled. Good sign. You're both mature adults. Either/both of you have had some form of loving relationships in your life. If she likes you, you'll tickle her erogenous zones on an early date through her ears. Light, casual, funny, interested, charming. Tasteful off-color if things flow that way. Read the social cues. Women her age know how men are so she'll have no problem giving you a green light with obvious behaviors if she likes you/is attracted to you. You don't have to kiss her on the first date. The key is creating an environment where, if she likes you, she *wants* you to kiss her. Watch her lips Oh, and get that 'beta' stuff out of your head. On dates you're a man. A good man. That's it. 3
lovebitme Posted August 25, 2018 Posted August 25, 2018 If the date goes well and she's giving you the signs make sure to kiss her. The quickest way into the friend zone is NOT kissing her at the RIGHT time. Most importantly, IME better to kiss too soon than too late. You many never get a second chance. Once in the friend zone, always in the friend zone. Good luck.
wed4ever Posted August 25, 2018 Posted August 25, 2018 Here's a little story for you. I met this girl at a function, asked her to go get coffee afterwards. We did. I got her phone #. Called her and asked her out on a real date. The first date went really well, dinner, walk around town and a walk on the beach. I was really nervous but that night I kissed her on the boardwalk next to the ocean. To this day she still thinks that was way too soon for a first kiss. How do I know? I'm still with her. She is my wife and we have two children together. I was put in the friend zone my entire dating life. Finally I said screw it and I went for it. I got tired of being the chivalrous nice guy and started looking at women more as expendable (only in the context of dating) They really don't know what they want. You have to make their emotions take over so they don't think, just do. They will come after you and not even know why they are doing it. Once you're in a relationship then you'll have plenty of time to be the nice guy. They'll love you for it. If fact, I have to go because I need to get the kitchen cleaned up before my wife comes home 3
mossycup Posted August 25, 2018 Posted August 25, 2018 (edited) Here's a little story for you. I met this girl at a function, asked her to go get coffee afterwards. We did. I got her phone #. Called her and asked her out on a real date. The first date went really well, dinner, walk around town and a walk on the beach. I was really nervous but that night I kissed her on the boardwalk next to the ocean. To this day she still thinks that was way too soon for a first kiss. How do I know? I'm still with her. She is my wife and we have two children together. I was put in the friend zone my entire dating life. Finally I said screw it and I went for it. I got tired of being the chivalrous nice guy and started looking at women more as expendable (only in the context of dating) They really don't know what they want. You have to make their emotions take over so they don't think, just do. They will come after you and not even know why they are doing it. Once you're in a relationship then you'll have plenty of time to be the nice guy. They'll love you for it. If fact, I have to go because I need to get the kitchen cleaned up before my wife comes home I'm intrigued by this post, and by the whole culture of alpha/beta, friendzoning, all that stuff. As a woman, I find it annoying that I have to sit passively and wait for men to act, but I see how on the flip side, it sucks for men to always be the ones reaching out and risking rejection or, as you say, friendzoning. First of all, can you say more about getting women into a space where they aren't thinking, but feeling? That makes me feel nervous, that a guy would try to do that to me. I feel like it would leave me vulnerable to being with someone who might hurt me. I want to keep my head clear and love someone based on respect and admiration. Secondly, friendzone. For me, if I suggest friendship first when I'm with a man, it's because I don't know him at all and need time to establish trust - I NEED TO SEE HE LIKES ME FOR ME, NOT JUST MY Bs and V, if you know what I'm saying. I've had guys I could imagine falling for say, "Ohhhhh friendzoned, you're gently letting me down" to me when I suggested this and I immediately stopped spending time with them (self fulfilling prophecy on their part). To me, it's like, if just being my friend if you just met me is a letdown, if you are that impatient and need to get to the sex that quickly, or if you need all that control right away, or if you have that little confidence for the "chase", I dont' feel seen by you and I also feel you will be insecure in our relationship and I'll have to give you everything and you won't be able to meet me halfway. I feel like Girlfriend in a Box or something. That being said, guys friendzone me all the time, in a way that ****ing sucks. That's where we meet, have chemistry, maybe make out, but then "Just friends, ok?" Maybe you are talking about that. In which case, ugh, my sympathy. I cut people like that loose immediately now. In the end, I think the ideal is to go for "courtship" - either we are non-sexually interacting in preparation for possible dating, or we part ways/hang out only in groups. But back to your question, OP. How to NOT be friendzoned. If it's the first type I described, act as if you are courting her - be romantic and not sexual. Take charge, but be thoughtful. Ask her lots of questions, do romantic gestures, pay attention to her in a non-overwhelming way. Walk her to the door. Be a gentleman. It's unusual now. No matter how the date went, text her to thank her for it. Don't ask for a date, just say thank you. If she responds, ask her out again. She'll see you are different. Not some PUA ******* but just a real gentleman. Women see so little of that, you'll stand out from the crowd. If she isn't interested, she probably wont' write back to your thank you, or be vague or say not to your date request. Move the **** on, asap. You are a man. You are so, so fortunate for how much action control you have. You can make all the romantic gestures, ask the questions, take the leadership - all that is open to you to try on one girl after the next. Edited August 25, 2018 by mossycup 1
mossycup Posted August 25, 2018 Posted August 25, 2018 Here's a little story for you. I met this girl at a function, asked her to go get coffee afterwards. We did. I got her phone #. Called her and asked her out on a real date. The first date went really well, dinner, walk around town and a walk on the beach. I was really nervous but that night I kissed her on the boardwalk next to the ocean. To this day she still thinks that was way too soon for a first kiss. How do I know? I'm still with her. She is my wife and we have two children together. I was put in the friend zone my entire dating life. Finally I said screw it and I went for it. I got tired of being the chivalrous nice guy and started looking at women more as expendable (only in the context of dating) They really don't know what they want. You have to make their emotions take over so they don't think, just do. They will come after you and not even know why they are doing it. Once you're in a relationship then you'll have plenty of time to be the nice guy. They'll love you for it. If fact, I have to go because I need to get the kitchen cleaned up before my wife comes home Also, please say more about me as a woman not knowing what I want. I'm not even offended, just curious what you mean by that? 1
mossycup Posted August 25, 2018 Posted August 25, 2018 If the date goes well and she's giving you the signs make sure to kiss her. The quickest way into the friend zone is NOT kissing her at the RIGHT time. Most importantly, IME better to kiss too soon than too late. You many never get a second chance. Once in the friend zone, always in the friend zone. Good luck. Be prepared that she might say no to the kiss, but still want you. There are a few gentlewoman left these days who truly are testing you to find out if you will wait, if you really respect her. If you try to kiss and she says no, she wants to wait, take that as a sign of her interest, ok? In fact, if she has the courage to say no and ask you to wait, it's really a sign of interest, much more than a "ah heck i'll just get this kiss over with" or "he's hot, I'll **** him and them friendzone him" etc.
Larry56 Posted August 26, 2018 Posted August 26, 2018 Answer is you can't stop it. The friendzone is just a nice way of saying to you that they don't find you attractive enough to be considered romantic or one-night stand material. This usually happens with girls who think they can get someone better, meaning you're going for girls out of your league. You need to drop your standards a bit and see how girls below you act around you so you find find out where you are placed in the hierarchy or attractiveness. After being put in the friendzone with the last woman I liked I don't want that to happen to happen again. Tonight I'm meeting someone from Tinder and we've rescheduled once after I cancelled. I don't know much about her other than her looks and what she does for a living. We're meeting at a restaurant that is kind of interesting and there is an area we can walk around afterwards. From what I've seen about getting put into the friendzone it's because you give off some kind of "beta vibe" or something. I tend to get extremely nervous and stiff on 1st or even 2nd dates, but I think I'm getting better at it. I'm almost 40 and have never initiated a 1st kiss w/a woman so that's a big deal for me. I've got another prospect from OLD that wants to meet up, so if I mess this one up it's not the end of the world.
wed4ever Posted August 26, 2018 Posted August 26, 2018 I want to keep my head clear and love someone based on respect and admiration. In the end, I think the ideal is to go for "courtship" - either we are non-sexually interacting in preparation for possible dating, or we part ways/hang out only in groups. Also, please say more about me as a woman not knowing what I want. I'm not even offended, just curious what you mean by that? I'm simply saying that there is sexual tension in a romance. In friendship there is not. Romance is highly emotional. Friendship is logical. You don't logically fall in love with someone. I guess saying that women don't know what they want was a poor choice of words. Nonetheless, a man or woman won't pursue someone who they don't have romantic feelings for even if that person meets all there requirements for a mate. My advice to kiss early let's the other person know where you stand and if you're lucky might create a superficial romance or sexual tension that gets you another date. It's not going to work all the time but it stacks the deck in your favor from the start. Plus it helps you not waste time with someone who really isn't into you. 1
wed4ever Posted August 26, 2018 Posted August 26, 2018 Be prepared that she might say no to the kiss, but still want you. Disagree. She won't say no because you don't try to kiss her unless she is giving you clear signals. The ball is completely in her court. She decides when she wants to be kissed. If she's not giving you signals then it would be very rude to even try. The worst possible thing you can do it NOT go in for the kiss when she WANTS you to do it. I can't stress this enough. 1
d0nnivain Posted August 26, 2018 Posted August 26, 2018 max3732 Avoiding the friednzone has 2 parts. One you can't control. The other person has to find you sexy. That is an instantaneous chemical thing for many people, me included. Some people can work their way up to romance but for me it's there in the 1st few seconds or it's not. If it's not, it doesn't matter how suave, charming, alpha. whatever you are, it's not going to develop. We're going to assume you have that covered because this woman agreed to a rescheduled date. If she wasn't happy with what she saw on your profile, that would not have happened. Now the 2nd part, you are going to have come waaaayyy out of your comfort zone. Until I read that at 40 you have never initiated a kiss with a woman I was going to suggest you greet her with a kiss on the cheek or an over the top hand kiss. If you don't think you can pull either of those off effectively don't even try. Awkward attempts at either will make you look undesirable. Your best bet is to flirt your tail off. Sit too close. Brush her ankle with yours under the table or at the bar. Find a reason to touch her subtly -- brush a hair from her face, caress her hand, use your finger to wipe a crumb from her mouth, offer her a bit of food from your fork. Maintain eye contact & keep your own eyes half masted / half lidded. Make a risqué not vulgar statement to keep the date on a sexual plane. At the end do kiss her good night even if it's on the cheek. Her body language in the minute before should tell you all you want to know about her willingness to share a real kiss. If you don't know what I'm talking about watch the kiss instruction scene from the movie Hitch. Best wishes. Come back & tell us how it went.
alphamale Posted August 26, 2018 Posted August 26, 2018 I'm almost 40 and have never initiated a 1st kiss w/a woman so that's a big deal for me. women are probably sensing that. you need to get into psychotherapy to figure out what the problem is 1
Author max3732 Posted August 26, 2018 Author Posted August 26, 2018 women are probably sensing that. you need to get into psychotherapy to figure out what the problem is Why would I need to get into psychotherapy to figure out the problem? I know the problem already, which is that I'm hardly ever around women my own age and even less often around ones that I'm interested in. Since it's something I've never done that's important and something I care about it makes me nervous to try. When I had a girlfriend I'd initiate kisses all the time, but that was because I already knew she liked me and we were dating. It's much harder with someone I've only known for around an hour.
Author max3732 Posted August 26, 2018 Author Posted August 26, 2018 max3732 Avoiding the friednzone has 2 parts. One you can't control. The other person has to find you sexy. That is an instantaneous chemical thing for many people, me included. Some people can work their way up to romance but for me it's there in the 1st few seconds or it's not. If it's not, it doesn't matter how suave, charming, alpha. whatever you are, it's not going to develop. We're going to assume you have that covered because this woman agreed to a rescheduled date. If she wasn't happy with what she saw on your profile, that would not have happened. Now the 2nd part, you are going to have come waaaayyy out of your comfort zone. Until I read that at 40 you have never initiated a kiss with a woman I was going to suggest you greet her with a kiss on the cheek or an over the top hand kiss. If you don't think you can pull either of those off effectively don't even try. Awkward attempts at either will make you look undesirable. Your best bet is to flirt your tail off. Sit too close. Brush her ankle with yours under the table or at the bar. Find a reason to touch her subtly -- brush a hair from her face, caress her hand, use your finger to wipe a crumb from her mouth, offer her a bit of food from your fork. Maintain eye contact & keep your own eyes half masted / half lidded. Make a risqué not vulgar statement to keep the date on a sexual plane. At the end do kiss her good night even if it's on the cheek. Her body language in the minute before should tell you all you want to know about her willingness to share a real kiss. If you don't know what I'm talking about watch the kiss instruction scene from the movie Hitch. Best wishes. Come back & tell us how it went. OK, here is how it went. As I mentioned we had rescheduled and she said she wanted to meet for dinner then and asked if I could do it. I told her I could so I figured we had something setup. After posting here I sent something confirming the time and location and got no response. Then a few hours before we were supposed to meet I sent something else asking if we were still on as she suggested and got nothing. This is extremely frustrating. What kind of person suggests meeting and then doesn't respond and ruins my Saturday night? I was expecting to get something apologizing, but so far nothing so I'm thinking of just blocking her or telling her what I thought about what she did. This is Tinder so as you said she wouldn't have swiped right if she wasn't interested and I don't think she'd chat and agree to meet up and reschedule if she had no interest in meeting up. Is there something I'm doing wrong in these chats or am I just running into a bunch of inconsiderate jerks? I'm getting extremely frustrated.
wed4ever Posted August 26, 2018 Posted August 26, 2018 Since it's something I've never done that's important and something I care about it makes me nervous to try....... It's much harder with someone I've only known for around an hour. Yes, it's the most scary thing you'll ever do in your life. I'd rather go into front line battle. But as I've said in my above posts, you have to do it. If you don't you are going to kick this dating can down the road the rest of your life. There are a couple of theads here about how women are attracted to confident, masculine, alpha men and at least initially thats what they need to get their fire stoked enough for a second or third date. I hate to break this to you, but if a girl gives you the signals that its ok to kiss her and you don't, shes will move on because she will percieve you as weak. That is the #1 reason why its so important to kiss on the first couple dates.
nospam99 Posted August 26, 2018 Posted August 26, 2018 OK, here is how it went. Is there something I'm doing wrong in these chats or am I just running into a bunch of inconsiderate jerks? I'm getting extremely frustrated. Disclaimer: I haven't USED Tinder. What I did was take a look at the user interface and the information provided to sign up. I 'smelled' (intuitive and semi-professional opinion based on my previous career designing web sites) exploitative hookup site. So, I'd say unless what you want is a hookup, what you're doing wrong is using Tinder. However, some LS posters have posted favorable reviews of Tinder. Let's see how the LS 'community' reacts to my 'get off Tinder' post this time. 1
wed4ever Posted August 26, 2018 Posted August 26, 2018 This is extremely frustrating. What kind of person suggests meeting and then doesn't respond and ruins my Saturday night? I was expecting to get something apologizing, but so far nothing so I'm thinking of just blocking her or telling her what I thought about what she did. Awesome. That was easy, now move on to the next one. It's not going to be the last time this happens. But now you're smarter and ready for the next girl. Go knock her socks off!
d0nnivain Posted August 26, 2018 Posted August 26, 2018 max3723 I'm sorry you encountered another inconsiderate jerk. You were right to try to confirm. Anybody who does what she does is just an awful impolite person. Write her off unless you get confirmation that she was in a car accident or something. Blocking is fine. Lashing out won't get you anywhere. I can't speak to what you may be doing wrong if anything on line. That medium does tend to have a lot of flaking inconsiderate people. Because of that never count on anything from a 1st or 2nd meet and never ever give that person prime weekend date time -- Friday or Saturday night -- for a an early meet. If you keep your expectations in check & with OLD I mean non existent you can't be hurt. Lesson learned. Next, 1
rightondude Posted August 26, 2018 Posted August 26, 2018 OK, here is how it went. As I mentioned we had rescheduled and she said she wanted to meet for dinner then and asked if I could do it. I told her I could so I figured we had something setup. After posting here I sent something confirming the time and location and got no response. Then a few hours before we were supposed to meet I sent something else asking if we were still on as she suggested and got nothing. This is extremely frustrating. What kind of person suggests meeting and then doesn't respond and ruins my Saturday night? I was expecting to get something apologizing, but so far nothing so I'm thinking of just blocking her or telling her what I thought about what she did. This is Tinder so as you said she wouldn't have swiped right if she wasn't interested and I don't think she'd chat and agree to meet up and reschedule if she had no interest in meeting up. Is there something I'm doing wrong in these chats or am I just running into a bunch of inconsiderate jerks? I'm getting extremely frustrated. I doubt you're doing anything wrong. Some people just suck. Keep doing what you're doing. If there's chemistry, if you're making her laugh, if there's any kind of sustained eye contact, YOU GO FOR THE KISS. Sit close to her and then slowly lean in. If she's not feeling it, she will tell you. Be respectful of that and don't take offense. But like dude said, you MUST go for it if there's any kind of chemistry. 1
Highndry Posted August 26, 2018 Posted August 26, 2018 Tinder is for hookups. You should go into any "date" not only expecting to kiss her the first meeting, assuming you're attracted to her and she's giving you good signals, but possibly more. If you're looking for something serious, look elsewhere.
MaleIntuition Posted August 26, 2018 Posted August 26, 2018 In order for someone to be “friend zoned”, you actually have to be friends first. This terminology is clearly miss used if someone rejects you after two dates and suggests “friendship”; that is not “friendzone”, it’s just a normal rejection. The real friendzone happens when someone, most often the man, have a platonic friendship with a love interest whom doesn’t see him as a potential romantic partner. The state of being friend zoned, is mostly something men does to themselves, very few women will actively go around and, consciously, categories men into different zones. When you meet someone on a dating site, by the contex, she will automatically evaluate you as a potential romantic partner, the risk of a real friend zone is zero. The risk of rejection, however, remains the same. 1
preraph Posted August 26, 2018 Posted August 26, 2018 I don't know what you're doing on Tinder. Tinder originated as a hookup place so pretty much everyone expects you to be looking for sex first and we'll see about a relationship.
losangelena Posted August 26, 2018 Posted August 26, 2018 Dating is not a sport for the easily daunted. You will need to navigate a veritable minefield of flakey and ill-intention people. You cannot get tripped up on someone who fails to do right by you. I have always had the most success in dating when I can maintain a two-part mindset: 1. I assume the other party will like me. I walk into a date saying to myself, "why shouldn't they think I'm great?" 2. Instead of wondering if they like me, I think about whether or no I like them. Do they meet up to my standards? Do I want to carry on with them? If I can't get myself into the above mentality, I avoid dating, because I know it will be a very miserable experience. 1
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