Dating: so much harder than I ever remembered...

[Surfer Joe]

Quick snapshot: I'm in my early 40's. Been divorced for 3 years. I have 2 kids (8 and 6). I didn't even think about dating until recently - wanted to get my life back together.

 

Earlier this year - a mutual friend introduced me to a wonderful girl and we fell pretty quick (guess you could say she had us pegged - she knew we'd probably mesh).

 

We went through the infatuation/falling in love stage and it moved very quick - sometimes maybe too quickly. I was her first long term relationship (we're the same age).

 

We did okay. We learned early on to communicate well and that has gotten us this far.

 

We're now (hopefully) in the long term relationship building stage, but recently have come up against some unique circumstances.

 

She just finished school and is about to start a new job/career. We talked several times about living arrangements. The quick and cheap answer would have been to have her move in (I have 50/50 custody of my kids), but we both realized that wasn't the best solution in the long term.

 

You get past the falling in love stage and then the hard work sets in. You start noticing things about the other person that require some thought. You start to question how much of yourself you're willing to give up (we're both strong willed in our own way and used to being independent).

 

Being independent is important to her. She likes to travel. She likes being able to have her own time. I understand all of that.

 

As we discussed living (or not living) together - it became pretty clear that this wasn't the time. We're still getting used to one another and to try and rush together our two lives would have been a mistake. So - she has decided to get her own place for a year.

 

She's got a lot on her plate: new job, new career, trying to find a place to live. It has created some distance between us - not a lot - but noticeable. I understand that. She has come out and said it would be like this.

 

The wild card is that she has always wanted to be a mother and in the early stages of our relationship she brought it up several times. I didn't feel we were ready (and we were not ready - several months into a relationship is not enough time). She kind of got caught up in the idea and would bring it up every now and then. She would say she felt we were ready - though I don't know how much she truly meant it. So hard to say.

 

Anyway - if you've read this far - thank you. I'll wrap it up. Last night was rough. I had some drama come up with my ex and my kids. She was having a million things going through her head and so we basically spent the night not saying much (which is odd for us) and it was an uncomfortable night.

 

We talked briefly this morning and she explained where she was at and then we talked again and she said she hoped she had not come across too "hard" this morning and then went into some of the things she was grappling with.

 

She mentioned trying to come to terms with us not having a biological child together - and I know this is a big thing for her. That comment kind of killed the conversation. I kind of fumbled my response - I mean - what could I say? She then quickly moved to sign off.

 

I love her. I want to have a future with her. I completely agree that we are not ready to move in together - we've only been dating 6 months - and if we're not ready to move in together - we're definitely not ready to have a child together.

 

I feel like she has accepted that. She made the comment in connection to her decision to hold off a year on living together.

 

I feel bad. I feel like she resents me for not being able to give her what she wants, but I also feel like she doesn't consciously resent me - more of just a bitter disappointment that I'm connected to because I could have been the guy.

 

We made different decisions in life. I decided to settle down, get married, and have kids. She decided to follow other dreams and she has gotten to do things I'll never have the chance to do.

 

I just don't know how to proceed right now. I don't feel like this means our relationship is over. I would be pressed to say it is even in peril. I think she needs time to adjust to a lot of changes in her life right now. This new job/career was a path she had never dreamed of following when I met her earlier this year.

 

I don't know what to say. I feel like I can't say "I'm sorry we can't have a baby" or something like that. That feels icky for some reason. I don't know if I can understand what that feels like and I'd feel inadequate and fake to even try. I've had the chance to be a father - I know what it feels like. It's the best thing that has ever happened to me.

 

I also know I can't mention that she chose a path that led her away from motherhood. That's not fair. We all make choices (and sometimes they are made for us).

 

I know it is not up to me to solve this for her. I know I can't solve this for her. I can just be there for her, but I don't know how to do that in a way that feels right.

 

I just remember being single after my divorce and daydreaming about dating again and wondering what it would feel like and never really thinking - even with all my experiences dating over the years - how complicated it would/could be.

[Sunlight72]

Can you clarify for me?

 

You (yourself) do not want to have more children?

 

The problem is that she wants children soon, and you don't ever? Or you don't want them now? (as you two haven't known each other very long)

[coolheadal]

Wow 6 months you with her she wants her own kids and you are refusing it why? She's into you and your into her. You could move her in you know 1/2 mark. Don't be too stubborn here because you could loose her for someone else if you don't act before you leap. Can you have more kids or did you get yourself fixed. If you did you should tell her the truth. She wants to be mom don't take that away because you have two kids already with another woman. Not fair to her. She wants her own kids with you.

Edited August 22, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Quote removed

[Surfer Joe]

Can you clarify for me?

 

You (yourself) do not want to have more children?

 

The problem is that she wants children soon, and you don't ever? Or you don't want them now? (as you two haven't known each other very long)

 

I think we haven't known one another long enough to make that decision. 6 months isn't long enough. We decided we weren't ready to live together and when that decision was made - any talk of kids kind of went off of the table.

 

I would be open to having another child - but that isn't something I can commit to at this point.

[Surfer Joe]

Wow 6 months you with her she wants her own kids and you are refusing it why? She's into you and your into her. You could move her in you know 1/2 mark. Don't be too stubborn here because you could loose her for someone else if you don't act before you leap. Can you have more kids or did you get yourself fixed. If you did you should tell her the truth. She wants to be mom don't take that away because you have two kids already with another woman. Not fair to her. She wants her own kids with you.

 

I think 6 months is not long enough to know someone well enough to have a child with them.

[coolheadal]

I think we haven't known one another long enough to make that decision. 6 months isn't long enough. We decided we weren't ready to live together and when that decision was made - any talk of kids kind of went off of the table.

 

I would be open to having another child - but that isn't something I can commit to at this point.

 

You sound like you don't want her to move in with you and you also sound like you don't want to have more kids now or later. Are you sure you're really into her? Your 40 and she's 30? 6 months is 1/2 way point 1 year is the mark. But again it depends she has her own money working going to school, you working but has 2 kids 50 split. You might not want the burden of raising kids again. She want kids, she might walk if you don't give in. Since she has brought it up a few times in your first post. Then that's not an option for her. Finding a place is hard for single woman today. Well it's your decision to make but I hope it's the right one too make. She's young she can fall out on you. She wants kids and your not ready to have more kids.

[Surfer Joe]

You sound like you don't want her to move in with you and you also sound like you don't want to have more kids now or later. Are you sure you're really into her? Your 40 and she's 30? 6 months is 1/2 way point 1 year is the mark. But again it depends she has her own money working going to school, you working but has 2 kids 50 split. You might not want the burden of raising kids again. She want kids, she might walk if you don't give in. Since she has brought it up a few times in your first post. Then that's not an option for her. Finding a place is hard for single woman today. Well it's your decision to make but I hope it's the right one too make. She's young she can fall out on you. She wants kids and your not ready to have more kids.

 

She's actually a few years older than me...

 

I did propose that she move in and we discussed it and mutually decided we were not ready. We decided we still needed to figure one another out - to determine what parts of our lives we want to keep and what we're willing to compromise on. We felt that trying to force the issue simply because she needed somewhere to live wasn't the right move and that it was more important to let our relationship continue to develop.

 

She is going through a lot of changes: finishing school, discovering a new career path she had not thought about before - getting a job and so on. I think a lot of realities are hitting her.

 

I know they hit me. I thought moving in together would be easy and it was actually her who put the brakes on that and her reasons for doing so are valid.

[Surfer Joe]

There is simply a reality that we chose different paths when we were younger. I decided I wanted to settle down, get married, and have kids. She chose a different path. It's hard that we met at this point in our lives - but I can't change that.

[damni]

6 months is way too soon to move in with each other, especially if there are kids involved.

 

The baby issue, well your partner is in her 40s so that boat may have already passed to be honest, so she is having to deal with that emotionally the realisation she may never have an biological child.

 

You are both doing the right thing by taking things slow, just be there for her if she needs emotional support.

[Surfer Joe]

6 months is way too soon to move in with each other, especially if there are kids involved.

 

The baby issue, well your partner is in her 40s so that boat may have already passed to be honest, so she is having to deal with that emotionally the realisation she may never have an biological child.

 

You are both doing the right thing by taking things slow, just be there for her if she needs emotional support.

 

I'm proud of the fact that we made the decision to hold off moving in together. It was on the table and when initially proposed it seemed so much easier - but as we really thought about it - the complexity became apparent.

 

The baby issue has always been a touchy subject. It was first brought up very early in our relationship and I've never known how to respond. I'm not against the idea of having more children - but I can't do it just to do it.

 

There is so much we don't know about one another. Living with someone is complex. It's tough.

 

My gut does tell me that she is trying to deal emotionally with that realization and I'm just so torn about how I respond. I definitely agree my main job is to be there if/when she needs support.

 

I just don't want to say "sorry" because I don't like the way that sounds. I don't want to try and pretend I know what it must feel like - because I don't.

[Sunlight72]

I think we haven't known one another long enough to make that decision. 6 months isn't long enough. We decided we weren't ready to live together and when that decision was made - any talk of kids kind of went off of the table.

 

I would be open to having another child - but that isn't something I can commit to at this point.

Yes, OK. I read your original post again as well.

 

What I think you can do at this point is be very direct and clinical about your stance on having children. Do not meander and make long statements about this.

 

When it comes up, tell her in very simple terms that you love her, and (if it's true) "I would be open to having another child (after you two marry?)" - but you are not interested in getting her pregnant now.

 

(I do Not want to put words in your mouth. What ever you tell her, be accurate and clinical, and certain it matches what you feel today). She needs to know what you want, for real. She can then work around that if she wants to. When it comes to brass tacks, she may not actually want children right now either - that is irrelevant to your thought process though. You need to state clearly what you want.

 

If your heart does not lead you to feel joyful about having a child with her in the next two years, tell her that specifically.

 

------

The other way forward I see is if you do want children, but she wants to feel that you two are clearly moving toward those children (barring unexpected incompatibility neither of you sees today)...

 

Have you talked about marriage? You could propose in the next few months, and set the wedding for spring or next fall for example. This would let her know you are serious about her in your life. Worst case scenario, you two break it off before the wedding if you don't turn out to be the great match you both feel you are right now. But, it sets you on a path toward marriage and children in the near-ish future, if that is what you want to have with her, and if that is what you want to communicate to her.

-------

Outside of all that - keep letting her know that you are invested in your relationship with her, and you love her, and you want to continue being in a forward-moving relationship. Give her some time and space as you can, and yes, with you having children of your own, it is too soon for her to move in with you now.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Sunlight72]

Oh heck. I just read that she is older than you.

 

Oh boy. She wants to be pregnant last year.

 

Ugh. Well, my advice is pretty much what I wrote above

except, realistically, she does not have two or three years to see if you two are a great match, etc. So it is even more important you are Very Honest with yourself and direct with her, but the result may be that she breaks it off.

 

I just don't want to say "sorry" because I don't like the way that sounds. I don't want to try and pretend I know what it must feel like - because I don't.

I agree. It's not your place to be sorry about this.

 

She may just need room to grieve/consider her options. Do what you can to generally let her know you care very much about her. I think that's about all you can do.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Sunlight72

[JuneL]

You’re early 40s and she’s a few years older, which makes her ~45? Even if you start planning now, by the time she gets pregnant, carries the baby until birth, she would be like 47 at least to have her first baby. It’s not impossible, but not 100% feasible either.

 

I think you made the right decision not to move in and not to have a baby (yet). It would be a recipe for disaster otherwise. It’s not your responsibility.

[Gretchen12]

She may not be able to have children even if you try now. But she doesn't know until she tries. And if she doesn't try because you don't want to, she may assume she could have, if it weren't for you, even though that may a false assumption. I think she is not thinking clearly if she is upset with you. And if she leaves you, she's not better off, because she'd be starting from zero again with another man, unless she goes to a sperm bank. Pretty much realistically she needs to add one year for courtship to her expected age at pregnancy. What age is that? 42? 46? A colleague of mine got pregnant with her first baby at 42.

As for you, you thought you'd be dating, you didn't think you be getting married again so soon. This is her situation, though.

[Surfer Joe]

She may not be able to have children even if you try now. But she doesn't know until she tries. And if she doesn't try because you don't want to, she may assume she could have, if it weren't for you, even though that may a false assumption. I think she is not thinking clearly if she is upset with you. And if she leaves you, she's not better off, because she'd be starting from zero again with another man, unless she goes to a sperm bank. Pretty much realistically she needs to add one year for courtship to her expected age at pregnancy. What age is that? 42? 46? A colleague of mine got pregnant with her first baby at 42.

As for you, you thought you'd be dating, you didn't think you be getting married again so soon. This is her situation, though.

 

I really don't think she is mad at me. I think she is coming to terms with the reality of the situation and I think that is very tough.

 

I just will try to be understanding and supportive and give her the space she needs.

 

I can't say if it will come out one day - if there will be resentment that will surface. I don't feel it right now, however.

[Surfer Joe]

You’re early 40s and she’s a few years older, which makes her ~45? Even if you start planning now, by the time she gets pregnant, carries the baby until birth, she would be like 47 at least to have her first baby. It’s not impossible, but not 100% feasible either.

 

I think you made the right decision not to move in and not to have a baby (yet). It would be a recipe for disaster otherwise. It’s not your responsibility.

 

My thought is that she is realizing this and it is hard. I get that. I think in that first blush of falling in love - it's easy to not think things all the way through - and then reality sets in. She has had an awesome life. She has had adventures I will never have - but that took her down a different path. I can't change that. I can't fix it. I wish it wasn't this way - but right now - she still seems to be committed to seeing this relationship through - but there is going to be some grieving.

[thefooloftheyear]

Stick to your guns....She is putting WAY too much pressure too soon...

 

I am getting the feeling you don't want any more kids and I don't blame you...If she was so adamant about being a mother than maybe she should have made that a priority when she was younger and could more easily find a guy willing and more able to do it...

 

"following her dreams" is great for her....But now she wants to play house and you've been there and done that....Just think of this as well....Lets say you have 2 kids with her...Add them to your kids, only now you will likely still have to be pay for these kids well into your 60's...You ready for that??

 

You may have to come to terms that she may likely need to find another donkey to give her what she wants...I doubt she will give in to this...So you may wind up losing her in the end....I would cut ties and find a woman with grown kids, or maybe one that never had and doesn't want....But that's me...

 

TFY

[Surfer Joe]

Things have gotten weird.

 

A little backstory. My ex took up with a bad dude. He's a bully and treats my kids poorly and I could go on and on about this - but last weekend we learned that he was possibly on the outs.

 

We had spent a great day together on Sunday and parted well.

 

Monday was okay. I worked late, but we had plans to get together for a little while. She came over and I felt this distance I had never really felt before. She felt almost like a stranger - like I just didn't feel comfortable around her. Our night was tentative and neither one of us slept well. This is in itself weird - as normally we cannot keep our hands off of one another.

 

She tried to explain herself Tuesday morning. She cited the new job and so on. She said that this is how she is when she's in transition. A little distant and unavailable. I said I understood.

 

Tuesday night was interesting. She worked. I had my kids. I dealt with some issues with my kids and my ex. Turns out her boyfriend is not moving out, but that they are trying to work it out.

 

My girlfriend and I exchanged a few text messages. It wasn't bad - pretty much normal for a night she works. I signed off with a long text about what she means to me and she "loved" the text message.

 

We talked this morning and she was cold and distant again. We talked about last night and what I'd gone through and her tone was cold. She talked less and less and when I'd stop talking - there would be silence. She was a little critical about how I'd dealt with the situation - a little doubtful that I'd be able to deal with it (basically standing up to my ex). That conversation ended with me feeling very unsettled.

 

I did confront my ex. We talked on the phone and it took a lot for me to do that. It was a good conversation and I stood up for myself and my kids. I felt good about it.

 

I sent a text to my g/f after and she called to find out about what went down and I told her and the conversation started well, but quickly reverted to how it was in the morning: cold, silent. I tried to engage her about her day and I didn't get much. I asked if we could talk later as I was feeling very disconnected and she was non-committal. She said she was tired and I said if she was tired we didn't have to talk - just me being nice - and she jumped all over that idea.

 

The call concluded with me asking her if something was up and her response was no - but it didn't feel like a convincing no.

 

I sent her a text message just saying that I knew she was busy and asked her to call when she had time. I said I was feeling a distance and that this didn't feel like us. We had always been great at communicating and now we were not. I told her I didn't want to add anything to her plate, but I also couldn't stay silent. I told her I cared too much and that I was feeling confused and afraid.

 

I plan on leaving it at that. The ball is in her court. I won't be pushy. I won't send more messages. I won't try calling. I will respect whatever is going on.

 

I just don't get the about face. I get that she is going through a lot of changes. New job, new career...looking for a place to live. I just don't understand where I fit in. Did I do something wrong? Is it even about me?

 

I have so many thoughts and theories floating around in my head - but I just don't get it. I don't get the sudden coldness and distance. We have had our issues before - but we've never stopped communicating. We always pushed through it. This feels different.

[Surfer Joe]

I'll add that the coldness and distance are really new and sudden. They just started to creep in on Monday and even then it wasn't a sudden fall - it was like slowly falling down a bumpy hill in fits and starts. Plenty of moments where things felt fine - but then a sudden change.

 

The hallmark of our relationship up until this point has been a strong connection. We've had our bumps like anyone - but we've always pushed through them - communicating and working the problem.

 

We'd talk numerous times during the day - some conversations heavier than others, but we never lost that "spark" that made our relationship feel special. Even when we were not in sync - we were engaged.

 

I'm just not getting that right now. I haven't felt it since Sunday. I don't understand it.

 

What do I do? I left the ball in her court. How long do I wait if I don't get a response? How long is too long? I don't want to grovel or seem needy. I did promise her time and space, but I also know if I care about this relationship (and I do) that I will have to act eventually.

[Surfer Joe]

I don't even know if I should send her a goodnight text? I've pretty much always done that...

[mrs rubble]

I think maybe all your conversations with the ex may be getting to her.

Maybe she resents you having so much to do with the ex because of the children, maybe she's feeling jealous of the fact that this woman has children with you. I would hold back on telling her everything about your ex's life and the impact it has on the children.

Maybe she's feeling depressed because the chances of her ever having children are slim to nil and it seems to her that you're unwilling to consider it until it's too late (it probably already is). I'd say this is the biggest of her worries...I fell pregnant at 41, miscarried at 14 weeks and have never gone back on birth control since....and have not fallen pregnant again, I'm 46 now.

[Lotsgoingon]

Basically don't underestimate the power of sincerity when responding to her words about wanting to be a mother.

 

Tell her how much you like her and exactly why you like her ... and tell her you're really sorry that she met you at a time when you don't want to have kids. You do want to be honest. I hate that we met when we did ... and I wish we had met earlier. Whatever, just articulate even half-baked feelings.

 

No magic performance here ... all you have in this situation is real sincerity and warmth. Sometimes we guys think we should have words to fix the situation. No, there's no "fixing" this situation ... There is only work towards accepting the situation.

 

Great passage by the way on the transition from romance to ... blending lives amid real world pressures, jobs, homes and so on.

 

I'm not sure dating is HARDER for you than before. I would when we were young we were just naive (translation: clueless, dumb, oblivious, way too unrealistic) about how much mundane work is involved in two people blending their lives. Young people can think meeting a great person solves everything. Well, you are too experienced to live in that illusion. Young people get to this stage anyway ... You're just facing this stage of things earlier on.

 

Dude, it sounds like you're doing great. Your decision on pacing sounds great. Do not rush to have kids or get married.

 

Seems to me you are handling things quite well! ... Way better than a younger person could.

[Surfer Joe]

I think maybe all your conversations with the ex may be getting to her.

Maybe she resents you having so much to do with the ex because of the children, maybe she's feeling jealous of the fact that this woman has children with you. I would hold back on telling her everything about your ex's life and the impact it has on the children.

Maybe she's feeling depressed because the chances of her ever having children are slim to nil and it seems to her that you're unwilling to consider it until it's too late (it probably already is). I'd say this is the biggest of her worries...I fell pregnant at 41, miscarried at 14 weeks and have never gone back on birth control since....and have not fallen pregnant again, I'm 46 now.

 

I've been thinking along these lines. We've obviously discussed our past lives. She is aware of my relationship with my ex and she has always been concerned with the living situation my kids face at my ex's house. It isn't great. It has improved, but her boyfriend is a creep. Just not a nice human being and while things have improved - I "think" there is an element of her believing I haven't done enough and this is especially touchy right now as she is coming to terms with not having a child of her own. Kind of like she'd do anything to have a child and would do anything for that child and I'm not being forceful enough to stand up for them.

 

The thing is - she hasn't walked in my shoes. She doesn't truly know what I've gone through over the past 2 years to protect and stand up for my kids. I've fought and worried every single day.

 

I just can't waltz into my ex's house and take them. I can't demand a change in custody. I've talked with lawyers. I've kept records. I've even reported her boyfriend to CPS, but none of it has come to anything and at this point it would be a he said, she said thing.

 

The best course of action right now (in my opinion) is to mend fences with my ex (which is what my g/f urged me to do) so that we can have a better relationship to co-parent and that is what I've been working on.

 

I have never said no to trying to have a child, but I can't say yes after only knowing her for 6 months. We've never lived together. We're still learning about one another. Having a baby simply because time is running out isn't an option for me. I have 2 children that I struggle to protect and provide for on a daily basis.

 

6 months is just too early. I can't change the fact that this is when we met in life. We chose different paths when we were younger and with those decisions we both gave up certain things at the expense of others. That's just a reality and it might not be a great reality - but it is reality nonetheless.

[JuneL]

You also mentioned that this is her first serious relationship (at mid-40s). Maybe she doesn’t know how to act once the honeymoon period is over.

[Surfer Joe]

We just talked. I don't think things are over - but the seas are definitely rough and safe harbor is far from certain.

 

She feels that while I expected my emotional needs to be met over, I was not willing/able to meet her emotional needs.

 

The main example being the 2 things we were wrestling with this week. I was wrestling with the situation with my ex and my kids and she felt she was there and that she provided all she could until she could not provide more.

 

I feel this is partially fair. I think she was there - but maybe not in the way I felt I needed her to be. I know she is grappling with her own things and she probably did give me as much as she could.

 

I would argue - and I did - that I don't feel like I place my own needs before the needs of others, but she pointed out that I do more than I think I do - but that is normal.

 

On her end - she brought up the fact that she told me she was struggling with the fact that she realized we were not going to have a child together. This was a decision that she made - based upon realities such as the belief we were not ready to live together and so on - but that when she brought it up - I didn't meet her emotional need. In fact, I did nothing.

 

I will admit to this. It has been a hard subject for me to discuss and so I've dodged it as much as I could. I don't know how to discuss this. There are many elements at work. I know we're not ready to have a child. I feel bad because I know how badly she wants to have one and I know I'm not able to give her that. I've been scared that my inability to commit to this decision will break us up.

 

We've danced around it - or rather I have. It's like whenever it has come up - I've frozen and fumbled the answer.

 

There is also an underlying current where she feels like I'm not an equal partner - that I'm someone she needs to manage and that she doesn't have the ability or desire to do that. I disagree on this point. I think I've done a good job managing my life since (and even before) my divorce. My way of doing things just doesn't fit within her way of doing things - and that has been a big reason behind our decision to not live together.

 

I don't know where we stand right now.

 

I feel like she had me on my heels most of the conversation and I tried my best to be honest and open. I apologized for the things I felt I needed to apologize for.

 

She mentioned several times about how having a child has been her dream since she was a kid and I get that, but she also made a conscious choice to pursue other roads. She decided to follow other dreams. I decided early on that I wanted to settle down and have kids. I'm not saying either path is right or wrong - it just is.

 

At the end of it - I know she just wanted me to discuss it with her. She just wanted me to acknowledge her feelings. I don't think she expected me to fix anything, but just to be there for her. I can admit I froze up and I wasn't there like I needed to be.

 

What now? I don't know how to proceed. I feel it is important to keep talking, but I don't know what to say. I don't know how to repair the damage or to change her perception about who I am.

 

My inclination is to reach out to her in some way - to express in words what I feel and to apologize and so on, but I also feel like I've already done that.

 

This is all really hard. I honestly didn't realize I was making her feel the way I was making her feel. I was aware that I wasn't facing the baby question in the way I should have and I'm sorry about that.

 

That said - I also don't feel like I'm the "problem" she makes me out to be. The conversation was very one sided. It was all about how she was the one who was hurt and she was the one who had done everything right and I don't agree with that.

 

I really do care about her. I don't know if we can undo the damage that has been done, but I really want to try. I just don't know the first step to take.