OatsAndHall Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 This isn't a rant and I'm not posting this out of anger or jealousy. I am genuinely curious about the topic I'm about to write about. Male or female perspectives are all welcome. Over the past few years of dating, I have seen women, friends and acquaintances that are heavily involved with men who I just don't see as having ANYTHING going for them. Example 1: A woman in her late twenties in this area owns and runs a business. She's well-spoken, intelligent and very attractive. Her long-term, liv- in boyfriend hasn't held down a job for more than six months since he graduated high school. By the looks of it, most of the money he does make goes towards tats as he has a ton of them. I suppose you could call him average looking if it weren't for the mouth full of missing teeth due to chewing tobacco. I've met him and he is a nice enough guy but he isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer either. He's a redneck, through and through and it shows. They live in her place and she's the bread winner. Example 2: A friend of mine is a successful nurse who owns her own home. She's been with the same guy for about a year and half now. He's a raging alcoholic (which she's acknowledged) and also struggles to keep employment. He's a mechanic and he's been black balled by most places in town because of his drinking problem. He'd be described as good looking if it weren't for the beer gut, bloat and the complexion of a drunk. I've only met him twice, he'd been drinking and was loud and obnoxious. Again... She is completely the bread-winner as he's unemployed again. Now, I could ramble off a dozen examples similar to what I posted and I just do not understand it. These are successful, intelligent, attractive women who are in serious relationships with guys who aren't even close to having their lives together. I guess I just don't understand it.
mortensorchid Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 These sound like young women, as in women age 24/25 and under. If that is the case, remember this fact as to why women go for losers / Bad Boys … I don't care what year you think this is, where we are in terms of "gender equality", etc. Women as children are disciplined more and expected to behave themselves and be pure and virginal. It's a double standard. And the source of discipline comes from all sorts of sources (parents, teachers, siblings, peers, etc.). When men act up we just say "Well boys will be boys won't they?" (Think Charlie Sheen) When girls act up, the hammer of Thor comes down on them (Think Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, etc.). Women hook up with losers / Bad Boys because that appeals to our wants and needs to be bad. Bad Boys or Alpha Males after all, are guys who are appealing because they are always getting into fist fights, throwing chairs through windows and in need of bail money. Not to mention that everything in between is them sitting at home letting some woman support them because they know they have the advantage. And after a few years, they ALL turn into losers, and if they don't keep working out and not drinking they will turn into flab and fat. If I could change women in this thinking, I would sit those gals down and say to them "YOu want to be bad? Be bad. Be as bad as you want to be. Ditch this loser because you don't want to end up supporting him in the long run." Some women NEVER outgrow this, but I'm in my early 40s now and so many things are clear when they weren't before. I have a former friend who is almost 50 and she had a baby at age 44 with her jailbird boyfriend who is 15/20 years younger than her. I have another acquaintance who came into a party in spring with this guy with her who I had met once or twice, we said hello. About an hour or two later, he is drunk and throwing up all over the host's couch, she is cleaning up after him because he wouldn't, and he's screaming at her. I said to her "What are you doing with this loser?!" ANd she comes back at me and says "Well YOU don't have a man at all!" We haven't spoken since. I remember my true turning point moment when I said never again. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of good people out there and they don't know what to do with me because I won't take care of them. I don't know... 1
d0nnivain Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 I am a successful woman who dated an underachiever for a while. Many looking at my situation may have asked the same Qs. For me the answer was he was uncomplicated & made a great "wife". He picked up my dry cleaning, ran my errands, made dinner, cleaned my house & warmed my bed. Financially he was a drain but he was funny, handsome, a good conversationalist & a great cook. So from the outside looking in these men may not have seemingly a lot to offer, the women who love them see something you don't, but that many manifest itself only in the privacy of their bedroom. 2
Happy Lemming Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 The women you are describing want "dependent" males. They want men who are unemployable and can't leave them. I dated one woman who dumped me for some unemployed loser. She later told me I was too independent and she wanted a guy to live with her. She also admitted that this was very important to her, so she could throw this up in her ex-husband face, that she could get someone to live with her before he could. It all seemed rather immature & petty to me. In the end, I'm glad she dumped me.
dream of me Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 Well, like all relationships there must be a physical or/and an emotional bond. Some women take the whole nurturer thing too far and if you take care of someone's needs you become invested. 1
alphamale Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 I guess I just don't understand it. what's to understand? these women are with these men because of the way they make them feel 2
lurker74 Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 Many women (and some men) choose jerks or losers because despite everything that's what they feel they deserve. It takes a long time for them to learn that it doesn't have to be that way, but when it isn't like that, they don't trust it. Yes, this is a mile-wide brush I'm painting with but it is incredibly common. It's why I won't date a woman that has a long history or being with an A hole because she simply will not appreciate my being kind and thoughtful and will in fact tend to see it as a weakness.
coolheadal Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 Many women (and some men) choose jerks or losers because despite everything that's what they feel they deserve. It takes a long time for them to learn that it doesn't have to be that way, but when it isn't like that, they don't trust it. Yes, this is a mile-wide brush I'm painting with but it is incredibly common. It's why I won't date a woman that has a long history or being with an A hole because she simply will not appreciate my being kind and thoughtful and will in fact tend to see it as a weakness. You have a good understanding of those type of women. I ran into those myself, that's why I got to be more aggressive. I tend not to open the SUV door for them and let them just get into it themselves. I lead instead of follow. Can be a bit nice but not over do it. They will not appreciate that fact. I do allow them to let me open the door or get on elevator first. Got to have manners. A lot of men don't have them I guess you can say those are the jerks. These women you talk about here don't like to be smothered with love and affection because the jerks don't show that side of them. With them they never tell the woman they love them. While the good guys do. I usually wait before I even say that word. Let me here them say it instead of the guy saying it to them. That's my point on this subject.
MountainGirl111 Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 Some women, despite seeming to have their act basically together and are attractive enough still might struggle with low self esteem. The low self esteem likely gets going in childhood. I know, it doesn't make sense. A good friend of mine is a raging co-dependent. She's a great person. Very kind. Too kind sometimes. He man makes less money than she does but spends more than she does. He puts his hobbies and dreams first, always. She accomodates him. I hate to witness that. I think she could be treated a whole lot better. I think she should assert herself better, but she doesn't feel empowered enough to do that.
Imajerk17 Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 If there is anything that I have learned about human nature, it is that people act less according to their self-interests, and more according to their own self-image. Maybe each of your friends are getting secondary gain from being with these guys--they get to see themselves as women of depth who aren't in it for the money and who don't bail when things get tough. As far as how they got into the relationship in the first place, many women have strong mothering instincts and wanting to help him might have gotten her roped in, in the first place. Meanwhile, attraction has little to do with how much money a guy has or even how good-looking he is. Maybe he has a way of making her laugh. And yeah maybe these guys are great at fixing stuff around the house, and they are terrific in the bedroom. 1
preraph Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 Sometimes people date what they were used to growing up. So maybe trashy has an appeal to her because it's familiar. Who knows. Missing teeth and chewing tobacco would do it for me. I always get flack from the nonpathalogic nurses when I bring it up, but profilers did a study a decade or more ago and found that an out-of-proportion amount of nurses were involved with serious criminal types. Nurses are not all, but many of them, wanting to help people and overly tolerant, too tolerant for their own good, perhaps. You often find them with drunks and addicts. They will try to help people no one else will put up with sometimes. They're caregivers by nature, and sometimes they are caregivers because they were placed in a caregiver role as children by their parents, who may have addiction or alcoholism or mental illness. I've seen it over and over just in folks I knew in high school and later as a young adult. One girl lost her mom young and had to be the woman of the house, never got to be a child or teenager. She took care of her dad. She became a nurse. One woman had addict parents and so her baby daddy was an addict as well. No one wanted to put up with him. He was fun but a walking disaster. But this was normal for her. She ended up not as a nurse but in some type of caregiving field. This is the problem with exposing children to addicts and criminals. They learn skills to tolerate them, and then they feel comfortable enough to mate with them and have kids and repeat the cycle. 2
MountainGirl111 Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 I'm not quite sure which scenario concerns me more: 1] The couple who appear to be the perfect couple. 2] The couple who seem like an odd match and you can't figure out why she puts up with him. What I've come to understand is you can't always go by appearances. You can't always go by income differences. I've seen perfect looking couples who you might think are made for each other and just seem to go together so well, but in private they are unhappy or one of them is abusive/controlling... In some cases where abuse is present they make MORE of an effort to appear perfect. Case in point: My aunt was married to a very successful man. He made a lot of money. He was so handsome. She was so beautiful. They had a beautiful home. She seemed like the perfect wife and homemaker. I always thought their marriage was perfect! So when they split and we got wind of why...it was hard for me to accept the truth behind the scenes of their marriage that they kept in private for so many years. Her second husband was like a total opposite of her first and we could not figure out what she saw in him. But....their still together and she seems happy!
JuneL Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 I am a successful woman who dated an underachiever for a while. Many looking at my situation may have asked the same Qs. For me the answer was he was uncomplicated & made a great "wife". He picked up my dry cleaning, ran my errands, made dinner, cleaned my house & warmed my bed. Financially he was a drain but he was funny, handsome, a good conversationalist & a great cook. So from the outside looking in these men may not have seemingly a lot to offer, the women who love them see something you don't, but that many manifest itself only in the privacy of their bedroom. ^^This. Or maybe those underachievers are much more available in general. For example, they can go shopping with her and carry her groceries; they can take her to doctors appointments or to places readily, or they can easily free up time to help her elderly parents do errands. My bf has a super demanding career, and he’s not as readily available for some of these things are the underachievers.
preraph Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 I'm not quite sure which scenario concerns me more: 1] The couple who appear to be the perfect couple. 2] The couple who seem like an odd match and you can't figure out why she puts up with him. What I've come to understand is you can't always go by appearances. You can't always go by income differences. I've seen perfect looking couples who you might think are made for each other and just seem to go together so well, but in private they are unhappy or one of them is abusive/controlling... In some cases where abuse is present they make MORE of an effort to appear perfect. Case in point: My aunt was married to a very successful man. He made a lot of money. He was so handsome. She was so beautiful. They had a beautiful home. She seemed like the perfect wife and homemaker. I always thought their marriage was perfect! So when they split and we got wind of why...it was hard for me to accept the truth behind the scenes of their marriage that they kept in private for so many years. Her second husband was like a total opposite of her first and we could not figure out what she saw in him. But....their still together and she seems happy! I don't trust any couple who puts on a perfect veneer. Even as a child, I noticed that everyone has their oddities and perfect families have their secrets.
mortensorchid Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 All the points mentioned are of note. Self esteem is hard to work on, God only knows I have struggled with it over the years and I am trying very hard to work on it. One of the first things I have to work on is recognizing a good/bad person in life (be they in the dating world or otherwise, made some bad friends as well but that's also just how it is). And when I have brought a man into the fold he usually proves to be a loser. But I recognize it and I see it sooner rather than later. As for having a dependent or house husband, I do have one friend from high school who is quite successful. I've met her husband a few times and she said he doesn't mind that she is the breadwinner or the more successful of the two. I would say that they are the exceptions to that. Have another longtime old friend of mine (former lover) who is married and has two little kids, his wife is the breadwinner and he stays home with the two children (save for when he goes off and sells toys at comic cons regionally). He has told me he feels rather emasculated because of it, I said "Well you can get a job if you like" and he won't because he doesn't want to put out resumes and show up with his hat in his hands asking for a job from someone. I had met men who said they were breaking up with me because they thought I wanted to be serious, and they rebound and marry a woman who they end up supporting to the point of taking advantage of them. So you can't win. Truly. I guess the only answer is that "life is complicated."
Woggle Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 For the same reason I see good men with a heart of gold with drama queens who treat them like crap. Some people seem addicted to dysfunction or they have self esteem issues. 1
Springsummer Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 For the same reason I see good men with a heart of gold with drama queens who treat them like crap. Some people seem addicted to dysfunction or they have self esteem issues. seems to be the answer. how come I have never met this kind of men?
alphamale Posted August 14, 2018 Posted August 14, 2018 how come I have never met this kind of men? because they don't exist
Chilli Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 You serious , they don't exist ? Man l can not believe some of the stuff l read all over the internet. Anyway have seen a lot of that stuff too but l think people way way over analyze it myself just like everything else all over the internet, lt's very very very easy to get stuck in a bad relationship or with the wrong person that started off all well and in too deep before you know it. And sometimes it at least offers something , and something might be better than nothing. Or it's to hard to get out of because despite the bs there are still feelings. Personally , l think forget the bs because 9 times out of 10 it's just as simple as stuff like that,
Gretchen12 Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 You based your judgement on MONEY. I don't choose my friends based on whether they own a home. When it comes to couples and marriages, there is still the old value judgement on the man being the provider, and that his worth is the size of his wallet. If you take money out of the equation in the examples you gave, totally rethink human interaction without judgements based on financial status, I don't think it's so surprising that some women may go for a man without sufficient income or own a home. Even the physical appearance is not everything in attraction. Things like compassion, good temperament and honesty should be valued. But they are often not valued in a society that places money first.
thefooloftheyear Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 seems to be the answer. how come I have never met this kind of men? You likely have....But you sensed their beta qualities quickly which squashed any romantic/sexual interest you would have ever had for them TFY
preraph Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 I think plenty of us have seen men with trashy women over and over again, women with nothing going on for them except maybe boobs. I think overall women require more of men than men require of women in that regard. Men don't usually care that much if the woman has a good job or good education or ambition. I remember a male friend telling me he actually liked to see a woman in a beat-up car because he figured he'd be a step up for her. So just reminding it's not just women who don't pick quality. 1
alphamale Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 I think plenty of us have seen men with trashy women over and over again, women with nothing going on for them except maybe boobs. I think overall women require more of men than men require of women in that regard. Men don't usually care that much if the woman has a good job or good education or ambition. I remember a male friend telling me he actually liked to see a woman in a beat-up car because he figured he'd be a step up for her. So just reminding it's not just women who don't pick quality. there's nothing wrong with a nice set of bOObs 1
LuckyM Posted August 17, 2018 Posted August 17, 2018 The guys are good in bed. Fundamentally, it comes down to sex and money and sometimes power. If they were not good in bed, they would be gone. I know a couple where the attractive lady has a successful business and her husband has no trade, no job, nothing. And then the emotional involvement makes it hard to leave. To answer another post, not all boys are treated better than girls at home. Some are abused verbally, physically, etc.
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