Friday night, bad OLD once again

[mortensorchid]

I had made an arrangement to have an internet date tonight with someone. We had just been exchanging pleasantries through texts and whatnot, then he asked to meet. I said sure, what is the time/place? He said I should pick. I said okay. Based on the geography we should meet at a place between. So we meet at a place with an outdoor patio because it was a nice night out and both wanted some chat time outdoors, which was good for me.

 

I ordered a non-alcoholic drink, he got nothing. I got it because otherwise they don't want you sitting around loitering there. I asked if he wanted one, he said no he ate already (it was 8 pm so it's alright if he ate already, which I had as well). He didn't pay for it, I did. (Strike 1) We sat down and had some chats, he seemed a bit ... Awkward at first but it's natural so I put him at ease with trading horror stories being a teacher. He was also. About 45 minutes into it, I feel raindrops starting to sprinkle upon me. He yawned and said he wanted to get going. (Strike 2) We walked to a central point, he asked where I had parked, I said I was in the parking garage over there, he was in another at another place. He didn't walk me to my car, he stopped, shook my hand, and said "Bye." (Strike 3)

 

I'll never hear from him again, but come on people, how do you expect to ever get something off the ground with ANYONE if you don't show common courtesy to others? Especially in a first meeting setting like this.

 

I am home now. Moving on.

[Normm]

He clearly wasn't interested in you. Also why do you expect him to pay for your drink?

Edited August 6, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Thingsfallapart]

OP,

 

I’m sorry but you sound a little like the women who always bang on about being a strong, independent female and then get annoyed when a guy doesn’t buy you a drink or open your car door for you...

 

Women these days don’t know what they want.

[Thingsfallapart]

Also I wouldn’t buy a girl a drink if I knew I wouldn’t meet her again. Why waste money...

 

He probably knew as soon as he met you that he wouldn’t meet you again, but didn’t want to be rude so stuck it out like a champ, instead of climbing out the bathroom window of the restaurant and fleeing through the back alleys.

[Mrin]

He clearly wasn't interested in you. Also why do you expect him to pay for your drink?

 

Chiming in here as a guy. Honestly - yes. A key ingredient to the masculine feminine dynamic, which is key to dating, is that the masculine pursues the feminine. Pursuit is action. This guy messed up even before the date by leaving it up to her to pick the spot. Inaction on his part. She didn't feel pursued. Then by not offering to pay for her drink again she doesn't feel pursued.

 

I have never gone out on a first date and not offered or insisted on paying for the drinks. It is chivalrous. It makes a woman feel honored and pursued. It puts me in my masculine and her in her feminine. If you are having trouble getting past the first date, ask yourself am I making her feel desired and pursued.

 

if you want to total up the dollar spent I guarantee that women spend more money getting ready for a date than a man. Makeup. Clothes. Hair product. Mani/pedi. Waxing. Jewelry. Let's face it - getting date ready as a woman is a process. Getting date ready for a guy usually means putting on something more or less clean and perhaps brushing our teeth. Ha!

Edited August 6, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Mrin]

 

Women these days don’t know what they want.

 

I disagree. I would suggest that they do know what they want you just don't like it.

[seixal]

His behavior could be explained by the fact that you didn't his motor running, but it just be him being his normal self. It has happened to me before, meeting with a girl who seemed so little into it the entire time for me to write her off in my mind only to receive a text saying she had a good time and asking to meet again. I guess the upcoming days will tell you where you stand.

 

 

 

Also, I don't understand why the burden of paying for your drink would have to fall on a guy you basically don't know. First dates with people met online aren't really dates, as they are really a hit or miss types of situations. Therefore, I think it's fair to go dutch with those.

[act00]

The fact that he didn't even order a beverage would be a mood-killer from the start. Let's not commit to anything other than free tap water...or nothing at all...really?

 

You tossed in something about eating and having already ate, right on top of his failure to order a beverage...I'm lost on this. Were things going (sort of) well enough that ordering an appetizer and feeling like a little late snack entered the picture? And that got shut down? Your description went from drinks (or lack thereof) to food with nothing in between.

 

I had one of these dates awhile ago. I ordered wine, he got water. The whole situation seemed "uninterested" as a result...not planning to stay. If he chose anything, whether alcohol or non, it would have come across as better, but with him not ordering anything but "I'll take a water," he basically showed up with one foot out the door. We chit-chatted until I finished my wine. I didn't order another, and I paid, since Mr. Wonderful only had water. He didn't walk me to my car, not even a hug, just a "see ya, it was fun."

 

That was a bust, I thought, but we'd been texting for quite awhile, so at least I can put this one to rest...done and done.

 

He texted me later, had a great time, can't wait to do it again...of course "again" didn't happen...the next one...and here's one to counter your "bad dates," Morton, the next so-called date was just chatting in a parking lot for 10 minutes. I seriously thought we'd be going in and having a smoothie, but no, he just wanted to meet in a parking lot for 10 minutes..the drive-by date. I'm done. You want to know what he did after this? He sent me this heartfelt music video suggesting he was really into me...snarf...he was a perpetual texter.

 

Honestly, Morton, I have no idea why the guy even bothered. He seemed completely nonplussed from the start...an obligation...check a box...water and run, and couldn't even do so much as get you to your car safely. Men protect...the good ones always walk you.

 

All things aside, I hope your beverage was enjoyable and the patio weather made your evening a good one...I love patio weather. This dude? You seem to be a magnet for the weird ones. It will be interesting to hear if he contacts you again.

[Lotsgoingon]

So here's what I suggest.

 

I'm not criticizing you ... but I have a feeling that you're missing some clear pieces of information.

 

So when you "talked" to this guy before the date, how did you feel? Did you really like what he said? Did you find him really interesting? Funny? Witty? Smart? ... Did you sense he listened well to what you were saying?

 

Two ways to approach this ... a friend mind always talks about what she feels in her "body." ... Her body will have a sinking sensation that someone really isn't that interested ... She's in touch with her body, of course ... But others need to think about this ...

 

Were you excited about the date?

 

Now let's handle real time. OK, you arrive. Think back to the moment you eyed him and you guys said hello. What happened in that moment? My guess: something happened and he showed disinterest ... and really, you want to notice that ... Frankly, you can stop the date there. Or ... you can stay at a distance once you notice that coldness.

 

You order a drink and he doesn't. No! Stop right there. No blanking-way. That's rude. Cancel your drink, or pay for your drink, stand up and leave. You don't even need to say goodbye when someone is that distant and rude.

 

I've gone on all kinds of terrible dates. I can't think of a single time when I or the other person didn't have anything. Total sign of disinterest. He should have ordered water or juice or anything just for purposes of politeness and the date. So right here ... he sits down ... doesn't order anything. The date is over! Done. Nothing. No energy between you. Stop!

 

Instead, you pressed on ... pretending all was normal. It's not your job to "put him at ease." You're spending valuable energy banging your head against a brick wall. No, don't tell stories ... unless he shows a bit of interest. Never tell stories to someone who doesn't even order a drink in meeting. I might as well share my stories with a random person on the street. If you must talk, stay superficial. Tell about your drive there. Talk about the weather.

 

See if he responds ... only if he shows interest, do you want to tell some real stories.

 

So you're feeling disappointed by the ending of the date. I get it. But I think you can pull back much earlier ... it's like walking into a restaurant that's over-crowded and too loud and the host takes too long to even ask about your order ... and you just don't like the vibe of the place.

 

You stop. Hand the menus back to the host. Say thank you and go to another place. You don't ignore all the bad info you're getting and then complain later about the restaurant having a long wait, bad service and poor food.

 

Just trust yourself much earlier in the process. Guys will make their interest known. It will be kinda obvious. Stop pushing through brick walls. This guy seems like an obvious brick wall. Back the car up and go the other way.

[mortensorchid]

He clearly wasn't interested in you. Also why do you expect him to pay for your drink?

 

He offer anything that showed me he was even the slightest bit interested in me other than he was bored and wanted something else to do rather than sit in front of the TV. If he had said that, I would have had a bit more respect for him. But to yawn and say he wanted to get going after 45 minutes? Not even offering to walk me to my car is just plain rude. Had I not put out my hand to shake it he wouldn't have even done that.

 

Ah well, just another story.

Edited August 6, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[act00]

Lotsgoingon, while I fully agree with your post, mortensorchid did everything you're saying the guy should have done. She was polite. She committed at least 60 minutes of her life to meeting this man and following through, and being fully engaged in the process. She engaged in conversation even if she had to try to put him at ease...she tried. Not everyone exists in a black and white, block and delete after one minor indiscretion, state of mind. No one knows the exact moment when one needs to just walk out. If Morten had a crystal ball, she wouldn't have shown up at all, but she doesn't have a crystal ball. She engaged in trying to get to know this guy, and he turned out to be a boorish clod, so you make the best of it, finish you're drink, exchange pleasantries, and exit as fast as possible. She could have walked out sooner, sure, but while you're knee deep in it, and trying not to be rude and trying to engage, not draw premature conclusions...what can you do? It is what it is. It was 45 minutes of a bad date, not getting involved in a red flag neon sign of a potential partner.

[MountainGirl111]

, instead of climbing out the bathroom window of the restaurant and fleeing through the back alleys.

 

Okay....got a chuckle out of that. Thx for the visual.

[Lotsgoingon]

Lotsgoingon, while I fully agree with your post, mortensorchid did everything you're saying the guy should have done. She was polite. She committed at least 60 minutes of her life to meeting this man and following through, and being fully engaged in the process. She engaged in conversation even if she had to try to put him at ease...she tried. Not everyone exists in a black and white, block and delete after one minor indiscretion, state of mind. No one knows the exact moment when one needs to just walk out. If Morten had a crystal ball, she wouldn't have shown up at all, but she doesn't have a crystal ball. She engaged in trying to get to know this guy, and he turned out to be a boorish clod, so you make the best of it, finish you're drink, exchange pleasantries, and exit as fast as possible. She could have walked out sooner, sure, but while you're knee deep in it, and trying not to be rude and trying to engage, not draw premature conclusions...what can you do? It is what it is. It was 45 minutes of a bad date, not getting involved in a red flag neon sign of a potential partner.

 

True ... great point, act00 ... I encouraged mortensorchid to slow down ... because ... I sense she goes out of dates ... opens her heart and comes back with a disaster story ... and because I can see how I wasted a lot of energy on dates that were going nowhere--and clearly going nowhere.

 

You're right ... she was great ... but my view is that little good comes from wasting being great on someone who is showing loud disinterest. That's my concern. Share a little of your greatness ... and allow the other person to respond ... Don't just leap into opening up ... You suffer disappointment over people who aren't worth the disappointment.

 

You're right there is no magical moment to leave ... but I'm thinking mortensorchid is really open and friendly ... and if she's noticing she's working hard ... that probably means she's working REALLY HARD to maintain the conversation.

 

And I really don't think it's her job to "put him at ease with 45 minutes of stories from her life." Why isn't he putting HER at ease? Why not stop at 5 minutes of telling a story if the guy isn't responding?

 

I'm encouraging mortensorchid, like I encourage myself, to react more quickly in real time ... guy doesn't even order a drink ... I'm sorry ... I have never heard of that.

 

On the other hand, if she can laugh about the date and show some humor fine ... I have walked away from bad dates with some good stories ... sometimes I have consciously tried to remember details in the midst of a terrible encounter so I could later tell a funny story. These days more and more, I'm trying to in cut short dates if I feel like I'm talking to someone who shows no interest in even basic dating conversation.

[MountainGirl111]

Morton: Where'd you get this guy? OMG. No, just no. Exit stage left. He should have ordered COFFEE OR something. What is the point in going on a date if you aren't really "there". Sounds like he might have been in another world or something. Maybe he was hearing voices. Maybe he has a paranoid delusion about eating on patios.

[PegNosePete]

Not even offering to walk me to my car is just plain rude.

Whereas a guy you've never met walking you to your car in a (dark and deserted) parking garage isn't creepy at all...

 

Seems like a no-win for the guy.

 

To be honest seems like he wasn't even that interested from the start since he wasn't even interested enough to suggest a time/place to meet and then on the day he did everything he could to get out of there as soon as possible.

[Gretchen12]

The important thing is that there was no connection. You met, and didn't click.

 

I met up with a guy who didn't pay for my drink and didn't walk me to my car. But we talked for hours and he set up the next date before we parted. And we continued dating.

 

You're not there to pick apart his actions. It's not an exercise in etiquette. Either it's a match or it's not. That's why you went on the date to find out.

[SevenCity]

Chiming in here as a guy. Honestly - yes. A key ingredient to the masculine feminine dynamic, which is key to dating, is that the masculine pursues the feminine. Pursuit is action. This guy messed up even before the date by leaving it up to her to pick the spot. Inaction on his part. She didn't feel pursued. Then by not offering to pay for her drink again she doesn't feel pursued.

 

I have never gone out on a first date and not offered or insisted on paying for the drinks. It is chivalrous. It makes a woman feel honored and pursued. It puts me in my masculine and her in her feminine. If you are having trouble getting past the first date, ask yourself am I making her feel desired and pursued.

 

if you want to total up the dollar spent I guarantee that women spend more money getting ready for a date than a man. Makeup. Clothes. Hair product. Mani/pedi. Waxing. Jewelry. Let's face it - getting date ready as a woman is a process. Getting date ready for a guy usually means putting on something more or less clean and perhaps brushing our teeth. Ha!

 

But if you’re not interested in the woman, why would you take actions of pursuit?

 

I’ve been on several first dates where I had no interest in seeing her again and footed the bill regardless. I would have liked to change this behavior as it is a waste of money.

 

And why would I walk a woman to her car if I don’t want to see her again? My responsibility to “protect” her ends at the point the date ends.

 

If I like her I would act completely different, but if I am uninterested why do anything other than leave?

 

This guy clearly had no interest.

[smackie9]

It's all about MANNERS, being a pleasant human being . Maybe it's because I'm Canadian or old sckool. BUT just because a guy isn't interested doesn't mean he has to stop being a gentleman. You treat people the way you want to be treated. There was no excuse for his demeanor.

 

 

 

No one was asking for a steak and lobster dinner with a limo ride. It was a simple drink and talk. She had np paying for her own...and even offered to pay for his. He didn't order anything which is just showing his bad attitude. He was horrible!

 

 

Think about it guys...you meet up with a lady on a Friday night, then she proceeds to stare at her phone a lot, doesn't want anything to drink or eat and scurries away when the bill comes.....how does that feel? so would you rather have her cancel when she saw you coming in, and she takes off? or she gets up gives you a handshake and says ok I'm going to say no to this date and leave now?

 

 

It was almost he was out for revenge for all the sour dates he had...thought he stick it to someone so it would make him feel better that someone else had a s&*^%$ time.

Edited August 4, 2018 by smackie9

[Shining One]

Think about it guys...you meet up with a lady on a Friday night, then she proceeds to stare at her phone a lot, doesn't want anything to drink or eat and scurries away when the bill comes.....how does that feel? so would you rather have her cancel when she saw you coming in, and she takes off? or she gets up gives you a handshake and says ok I'm going to say no to this date and leave now?

In hindsight, I wish 80% of the women I had gone out with had done any of those things.

[PRW]

I'd like to rearrange your "strikes" a little bit and toss in a comment or two. It may help with the next one,...make you a little more informed on things to spot. Although I think you did a pretty good job.

 

 

pleasantries through texts and whatnot, then he asked to meet. I said sure, what is the time/place? He said I should pick.

(Strike1), He should pick. He invited you, it is up to him. You are free to say yay, nay, or make a counter offer after he does so, but it needs to come from him first. He needs to make the effort to show he can be a leader and not a follower

 

 

 

I said okay. Based on the geography we should meet at a place between.

I would say a little closer to you, but without letting them know where you live. The woman is at more risk for safety than the guy is, so the closer to home the better.

 

 

I ordered a non-alcoholic drink, he got nothing.

(Strike 2) This is strange and creates an odd atmosphere to me. I would at least get a Pepsi and a cheap order of fries no matter what.

 

 

 

He didn't pay for it, I did. (Strike 1)

Agreed, although it is Strike 3 on my count.

 

 

Awkward at first but it's natural so I put him at ease with trading horror stories being a teacher. He was also.

Thoughtful move, kudos.

 

 

He yawned and said he wanted to get going. (Strike 2)

Not sure if I'd call it a strike, yawns are not always voluntary. But I can understand your discontent with it. I'll go ahead and call it Strike 4.

 

 

 

We walked to a central point, he asked where I had parked, I said I was in the parking garage over there, he was in another at another place. He didn't walk me to my car, he stopped, shook my hand, and said "Bye." (Strike 3)

 

Not sure if it is a strike. Many women don't want walked to their car,...they may not want the guy to know what they drive or see the license plate, and since many guys know this we may not assume to do that unless you say something.

 

 

In his case, He may have already determined at that point that he didn't want to see you again. If that was true you can't expect much more than that, take it for what it is and move on. I got the "hand shake" from a woman once, and it was even after she took a few steps in the opposite direction toward her car. Then as if she suddenly remembered I was there, turned and stepped back toward me, said a few words that I don't even remember and held out her had, limply, with palm down. I reached out, held her fingers for a second, said something similar that I don't remember and then went to my car. I got in the car and said to myself, "Glad that's over!" The rest of the date hadn't been much better than how it ended.

[mortensorchid]

I make a point not to keep my phone out for any date activity (OLD or otherwise), it shows that you are interested in this person and you are not allowing anything to get in the way of it.

 

I'm not giving much thought to this. I'm not expecting to knock it out of the park but I do expect a little common courtesy from someone upon a first meeting and he wasn't giving me that.

[ThreeRainbows]

But if you’re not interested in the woman, why would you take actions of pursuit?

 

I’ve been on several first dates where I had no interest in seeing her again and footed the bill regardless. I would have liked to change this behavior as it is a waste of money.

 

And why would I walk a woman to her car if I don’t want to see her again? My responsibility to “protect” her ends at the point the date ends.

 

If I like her I would act completely different, but if I am uninterested why do anything other than leave?

 

This guy clearly had no interest.

 

 

Don't walk a girl to her car just because you're pursuing her. Do it because you'd do it anyways, cause you're just that awesome of a guy. And because you don't want an innocent woman to be harmed in a dark parking lot?

 

 

 

Be real. Don't do things just because you want a woman to like you. Do things because you're actually a decent guy.

[alphamale]

you're funny mortensorchid

[ThreeRainbows]

I make a point not to keep my phone out for any date activity (OLD or otherwise), it shows that you are interested in this person and you are not allowing anything to get in the way of it.

 

I'm not giving much thought to this. I'm not expecting to knock it out of the park but I do expect a little common courtesy from someone upon a first meeting and he wasn't giving me that.

 

 

I feel you. You know what? You dodged a bullet.

[Malin889]

Yikes. Sorry. He ordered nothing?! How awkward and rude. If he was meeting you, he should’ve saved his appetite at least if you were meeting at a restaurant.