ElKay Posted July 28, 2018 Posted July 28, 2018 One of my OLD guys seemed nice and we had stuff in common. We met once and it was fun, but sometimes he touched my back while walking through the crowded streets. I felt like he did that to kind of direct us between the crowd, but also, he's from a latin background, so I figured he may be more touchy feely than me. Also, even if it was humid that day, he sat legs up against mine in the subway... :/ Not because of a lack of space either. He then went on a trip and we kept in touch during his time away. I only had maybe 2 winks in the whole chat and definitely wasn't flirting like I have done with some other guys on that site. We meet again and he's flirty, sits close and touches me during the convo. I don't go out of the way to do any of that back, hoping he calms a bit down. On the way to the subway, he kept a hand on my upper back, but not tightly first, so it was like a non-stop back rub. I felt so grossed out but didn't know how to address it directly... Is this normal? I know I probably should have told him after the first date to nip it in the bud and not to expect that he gets my glaring non-reciprocating cues... I guess I'm used to flirting building from the two sides rather than one party taking over and imposing their touch on me..? If he reaches out again, I'll have to tell him that I'm not feeling more than friendship at this point. Any attraction that may have been there or grown has completely vanished because of the one-sided touching. Dating is hard! Has this happened to you and how did you address it?
ExpatInItaly Posted July 28, 2018 Posted July 28, 2018 I don't think his touches are out of the ordinary; he likes you and is trying to establish some physical chemistry. However, if you don't like it, speak up and let him know it makes you uncomfortable. My sense in reading this is that you don't actually like him that much, though, and this is probably the real reason it's bothering you to this degree. Just call it off.
FMW Posted July 28, 2018 Posted July 28, 2018 I'm not comfortable being touched by someone I don't know well, but I know people who are just naturally tactile with everyone, including strangers. I think it's just a matter of preference. It sounds like you are not compatible in the area of physical expression, which obviously is important. Just like any other area of incompatibility, it's nothing you should feel awkward or bad about. Just wish him well and move on.
Author ElKay Posted July 28, 2018 Author Posted July 28, 2018 Thing is, if I compare him with two other guys I'm dating, those other conversations I've had with them online turned so dirty and flirty, that I would totally accept such touches from them because I showed a lot of interest. This guy and I had very colleague-like conversations to the point that, if he wasn't super touchy in person, I wouldn't even had any inkling on him being interested. I guess I feel like, how dare he not wait for any interest from my end to just start feeling me up? Just the one-sided part really annoyed me more than I thought it could. Otherwise, if I'm flirting with someone, I love touches, cuddles and kisses. It just has to come out of some ebb and flow, if that makes sense?
ExpatInItaly Posted July 28, 2018 Posted July 28, 2018 I just think you're not that interested in him, and his attempts to flirt with you are not compatible with your own way of flirting. Neither of you is wrong, really, but your interest levels and expectations don't match. I don't believe he was trying to feel you up, per se. I think he was trying to build some chemistry. You can't really expect him to know what you like and what you don't like and where you boundaries are if you say nothing. 1
LivingWaterPlease Posted July 28, 2018 Posted July 28, 2018 ElKay, I'm with you on this. I don't want a guy touching me until I've invited him to do so with either flirting or body language. I just won't continue seeing a guy who gets too touchy feely with me before I've let him know in some way I'm open to it. There are plenty of guys who understand this dynamic. I believe there are many women who feel this way and I believe those who do are better matched with someone who is accustomed to waiting for a cue to move forward. Possibly, also, if you were to get with this guy who is so free with his physical expressions before having the green light from you, you may find he's being touchy feely with other women in a way that you may be uncomfortable with. It just may be "the way he is." I'm a very affectionate woman when I'm interested in a guy so, imo, this preference has nothing to do with whether or not a woman is affectionate. It has more to do with culture and/or a misunderstanding of subtleties of social graces. 1
act00 Posted July 28, 2018 Posted July 28, 2018 I'm more tactile and more affectionate, so the actions you describe really wouldn't bother me at all; however, if there was no chemistry, it would be something more unwelcome, and because of that, I question your overall attraction to him or that chemistry, but at the same time, some people are just plain less affectionate and don't really like a high level of touching. I don't like to have to be constantly touching each other all the time, and it can feel like inappropriate groping, and sometimes I just like my space, but I lean in the direction of more affection over less. You like "dirty talk," where I really don't. My expression is more in touch and action. I have a harder time with these types of discussions. I don't like this type of discussion with someone I barely know, where you seem to find this as a litmus test of interest level. I've dated a couple men who were foreign, and I found them to be much more bold in their affections. I had one give me a full kiss and hug when we met for the first time at the restaurant. I wasn't offended by it, but it was something I never experienced before a date on a first meet. I read a lot of posts where women think holding hands and a kiss or other touching on a first date, even a second, is too much too fast; meanwhile, I welcome such things...it shows interest to me, and if the chemistry is there, it's hard to resist. I don't know how to broach the topic that you would prefer less touching, but I do agree, it's just a difference in preferences and expression of feelings. Neither is wrong. This difference in expression can be hard on a relationship if some middle ground can't be established. Your tendency to not be very affectionate can suggest to him you're not really all that into him, while his inability to get verbally intimate makes it difficult for you (conversations feel professional). You just have different ways of expressing interest.
Author ElKay Posted July 28, 2018 Author Posted July 28, 2018 I just think you're not that interested in him, Yeah, I think this is what it is. ElKay, I'm with you on this. I don't want a guy touching me until I've invited him to do so with either flirting or body language. I just won't continue seeing a guy who gets too touchy feely with me before I've let him know in some way I'm open to it. There are plenty of guys who understand this dynamic. [snip] I'm a very affectionate woman when I'm interested in a guy so, imo, this preference has nothing to do with whether or not a woman is affectionate. It has more to do with culture and/or a misunderstanding of subtleties of social graces. This is completely spot on to what I meant! If I'm sitting basically turned away from him, not touching him, nor flirting with him (not even mentioning any dirty talk, it's not something I determine as interest alone)... and then he sits up against me, rubs my back, resting his hand on near the lower part of my back, almost on my butt... :/ You like "dirty talk," where I really don't. My expression is more in touch and action. I have a harder time with these types of discussions. I don't like this type of discussion with someone I barely know, where you seem to find this as a litmus test of interest level. I've definitely had awesome dates even without any dirty talk. I can flirt without that, no problem. The reason I mentioned it is that I didn't know why he felt like I was super interested in him if I showed no signs whatsoever (verbal, typing, physical)? I'll just have to stop seeing him and let him know I'm not feeling it.
OatsAndHall Posted July 28, 2018 Posted July 28, 2018 If it makes you uncomfortable, please tell him. This is an area of dating that has been frustrating for me, personally, as it can be difficult to read if a woman is kosher with minor physical contact early on. I've gotten to the point where I let them take the lead when it comes to this kind of physical contact as some women love holding hands and what-not on the first few dates while others are put off by it. I went on a nature walk with a woman who gave me hugs before and after each date. But, when I reached out to hold her hand during the walk, she shut down on me in a hurry. I let go of her hand after about about a dozen steps as it was completely limp and our conversation completely ended. The rest of the date was awkward and weird. On the flip side of the coin, I was out to dinner and a movie with a woman and it didn't appear as if she wanted any physical contact. It felt like she had about a three foot bubble of personal space and I stayed out of it. But, half way through the date, she stated "You really aren't very physically affectionate, are you?". Needless to say, the rest of the date consisted of more than just holding hands..
smackie9 Posted July 28, 2018 Posted July 28, 2018 If you don't like it you shouldn't be going out on dates with him...especially when you use the word gross. 3
Author ElKay Posted July 28, 2018 Author Posted July 28, 2018 If it makes you uncomfortable, please tell him. This is an area of dating that has been frustrating for me, personally, as it can be difficult to read if a woman is kosher with minor physical contact early on. I've gotten to the point where I let them take the lead when it comes to this kind of physical contact as some women love holding hands and what-not on the first few dates while others are put off by it. I went on a nature walk with a woman who gave me hugs before and after each date. But, when I reached out to hold her hand during the walk, she shut down on me in a hurry. I let go of her hand after about about a dozen steps as it was completely limp and our conversation completely ended. The rest of the date was awkward and weird. On the flip side of the coin, I was out to dinner and a movie with a woman and it didn't appear as if she wanted any physical contact. It felt like she had about a three foot bubble of personal space and I stayed out of it. But, half way through the date, she stated "You really aren't very physically affectionate, are you?". Needless to say, the rest of the date consisted of more than just holding hands.. At this point I think it's just made it clear to me that I'm not into him, but I definitely would tell him if I was planning on attempting more dates. I have had the reverse happen as per your last paragraph, where I'd bring up that I would like more closeness. I've been spoiled with some good dates recently with guys that let me take things at my own pace so I probably shouldn't overthink this situation.
Gaeta Posted July 28, 2018 Posted July 28, 2018 Your misinterpreted his touch as being flirty and sexual and it was not. It's a simple gentleman's gesture and it's meant to be protective. Men of Latin background have a higher sence of courtesy. Maybe you have not dated enough gentleman to recognize it. I am sitting next to my bf and he's confirming it's courtesy and this man would have done it to his mom or his sister. I remember we had an employee from South America, can't remember the country, and each time he saw me head toward the elevator he's run in front of me to push the button and hold the door for me and he did that gesture of putting his hand in my back to guide me. What a dream man :-) 1
Author ElKay Posted July 28, 2018 Author Posted July 28, 2018 Your misinterpreted his touch as being flirty and sexual and it was not. It's a simple gentleman's gesture and it's meant to be protective. Men of Latin background have a higher sence of courtesy. Maybe you have not dated enough gentleman to recognize it. I am sitting next to my bf and he's confirming it's courtesy and this man would have done it to his mom or his sister. I remember we had an employee from South America, can't remember the country, and each time he saw me head toward the elevator he's run in front of me to push the button and hold the door for me and he did that gesture of putting his hand in my back to guide me. What a dream man :-) Then it's definitely a huge discrepancy in our cultures. I wouldn't feel comfortable dating a guy that touched girls backs and butts this way. If unwelcome touching is gentleman-y, then I don't want any of those. First boyfriend was a total gentleman in every other way (opened doors, did things for me, had my back when things were difficult) and didn't do any this when we first started dating.
Shining One Posted July 28, 2018 Posted July 28, 2018 It definitely sounds like a culture clash. I know several women who shared the OP's experiences after moving to south Florida from elsewhere in the US. Personally, I appreciate the touchy-feely Latin women.
Gretchen12 Posted July 28, 2018 Posted July 28, 2018 There are cultural differences. When I have a party I touch all my guests, men on the arm and women and children on the back, to receive them warmly and make them feel welcome. But there is no rubbing (caress, massage). Is that what you're gettin? Rubs? You can say something.
Author ElKay Posted July 28, 2018 Author Posted July 28, 2018 Yup, rubs and resting his hands just on top of my butt... It's too late now since I don't want to keep seeing him, but how do I address situations like this in the future? Just saying "Hey, can you not touch me?"? I feel like that would've made things awkward.
Lotsgoingon Posted July 28, 2018 Posted July 28, 2018 There is no such thing as "normal." There is only what feels OK for you at this moment with this particular man. You may be sensing that his contact is pushy ... as in he's pushing physical intimacy. You really owe it to tell him this ... because the fact that you're even THINKING of how he touches you ... means this is HUGELY on your mind. Translation: this guy's contact doesn't feel relaxed or real ... he's creeping you out to some extent and therefore the relationship will not work if he keeps doing so ... So you might as well tell him. Look all subcultures have their own kind of touching and all of that ... and immigrants from various parts of the world might have different touching styles. So what? You're going out with someone from a different group, you have to know that a style that worked in your home country may not work here. If he can't make that adjustment, not going to work for you. And by the way, don't assume his touching is "normal" in area he hails from. There are probably women down there who had the same reaction to his touching that you do. And it's not your job to indulge a cultural difference that gets on your nerves--not when it comes to dating and romance. The project of bridging cultural differences has to be talked about upfront. Really, if he were socially sharp, he should have by now figured out and noticed how uncomfortable you are with his constant touching. You've probably tried to hide your discomfort. Guess what?! You cannot fully hide it. That he hasn't noticed and adjusted ... and pulled back ... and that you don't feel comfortable asking for the adjustment ... tells me you and this guy aren't a good fit.
Gretchen12 Posted July 28, 2018 Posted July 28, 2018 Oh no! No butt touching! In the future it's best to react obviously and immediately the very first time he does it. I don't even think you need to say anything if you recoil the first time. But if you tolerate it just once, then there'll be more to come.
Gretchen12 Posted July 28, 2018 Posted July 28, 2018 You should never allow any touching you're not comfortable with, not even for a few seconds. This is what we teach children as well. If you don't react, part of the yucky feeling comes from your own feelings of helplessness.
kendahke Posted July 28, 2018 Posted July 28, 2018 But, half way through the date, she stated "You really aren't very physically affectionate, are you?". Needless to say, the rest of the date consisted of more than just holding hands.. Thanks for the tip
kendahke Posted July 28, 2018 Posted July 28, 2018 how do I address situations like this in the future? Just saying "Hey, can you not touch me?"? I feel like that would've made things awkward. Move away decisively and say "too soon" or "slow down".
Author ElKay Posted July 28, 2018 Author Posted July 28, 2018 @Gretchen12: Yeah, I'm definitely partly at fault... I freeze in these kinds of situations since the anxiety gets me... :/ It's something that I'm working on. @kendahke: I'll try to remember to say that! In the moment, I had no idea what I could say.
OatsAndHall Posted July 28, 2018 Posted July 28, 2018 Thanks for the tip Lol.. Anytime. We would've saved ourselves an awkward hour or so if she'd just said "Do you like hot tubs?". 1
act00 Posted July 28, 2018 Posted July 28, 2018 Yeah, I think this is what it is. This is completely spot on to what I meant! If I'm sitting basically turned away from him, not touching him, nor flirting with him (not even mentioning any dirty talk, it's not something I determine as interest alone)... and then he sits up against me, rubs my back, resting his hand on near the lower part of my back, almost on my butt... :/ I've definitely had awesome dates even without any dirty talk. I can flirt without that, no problem. The reason I mentioned it is that I didn't know why he felt like I was super interested in him if I showed no signs whatsoever (verbal, typing, physical)? I'll just have to stop seeing him and let him know I'm not feeling it. And there lies the picture...you're not "feeling it" with him...which is why his affection has rubbed you the wrong way (no pun intended). He expresses himself differently and his interest in you results in touch...and he expects (hopes) you feel the same and behaves in such a manner. He probably has a family that is very tactile and touchy...and heritage. It is who he is and his "normal" is tactile and touchy. In your first post, you alluded to the fact that you were interested in him, but his high level of touch was throwing you off. Now you're saying that you're really not interested in him at all, so his touch is a bit more "offensive" (for lack of a better word)...unwelcome? Problem solved. You're just not into him. Break it off with best wishes.
Author ElKay Posted July 28, 2018 Author Posted July 28, 2018 I thought I was into him, but I guess I was deluding myself...
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