Breaking up and second chances - a thought

[adversity]

Sometimes, I wonder.

 

When people have problems in their relationships with their significant others, they go to their friends. They pore over a litany of complaints, micro-analyse every single word that has been said, every little thing that has been done, and generally, agree that the guy/girl is not worth the hassle and/or said guy/girl is an a**h***/bitch. Consensus is generally, that it's not worth the hassle and one should break up.

 

But I would like to know how many people actually break up on the strength of what their friends/family say. I don't think very many actually do. We go to our friends/family for advice, sometimes to convince ourselves that the course of action that we think we should undertake is the right one. Someone once told me that your friends/family are the most ill-equipped to advise because they don't know the true extent of the emotions/feelings involved.

 

I actually disagree with that. I think the reason why they are the most ill-equipped to advise, is because they are not actually in the situation itself. By the time you go to your friends for advice, normally it's because something is troubling you. They don't have the full picture - they only hear about the problems in great detail because when you're happy and people ask about it, all you say is, 'it's great'. This would also explain why the advice is almost always never taken. Because subconsciously, one knows that the facts and bases upon which the friend/family member is basing their advice is not a full, accurate and complete picture. They know there's always more to it.

 

So, when it comes to making a decision as to make or bust, one is always alone. If you're lucky, your significant other will agree with you and then you don't have to bear the decision-making burden alone. Responsibility and being accountable for one's choices have always been hard, there really is no easy way around it.

 

Excluding the extreme instances of bad significant others, eg. physically abusive, perpetual drunkard etc., what does make a relationship break up? Having sat through many pre and post breakup talks, I'm not entirely sure myself. Pre-breakup, one is trying to convince oneself that they're making the right decision in breaking up because of facts (a) to (z), all of which are negative. Post-breakup, one is trying to convince oneself that they're making the right decision in breaking up because of self-same facts. Justification is more than just a defence in the law of defamation. But since obviously negativity is something that one should never ever show, (after all, who wants to be around negative people right?) we try to cover it up with :"He/she is really nice" or some platitude to that effect. But it doesn't fool your friends. They know when you're hurting.

 

Everyone starts off their justification routine with "It just can't work out". And here then, you see a divergence between boys and girls. When asked the question, "what are the reasons why it won't work out":

 

Boy: it just can't *looks very troubled* we're just not compatible

Girl: it can't because (reasons (a) to (z), including a**h*** conduct)

 

I think a major part of why perfectly good relationships are not able to work is because both parties, being human and therefore fallible, are both guilty of the seven deadly sins:

 

 

(1)Pride - I'm wrong, but rather I would rather walk on glass than admit I was wrong, thank you very much.

(2) Envy - How come my friend does [state thing] for his/her significant other, and you don't?

(3) Gluttony - I don't actually need your support, but i want it, irregardless of whether you are able to give it at that point in time. I don't care, you have to give it to me.

(4) Lust - damn, that girl down at the bar is waayy hot. Did you see her t**s? The greener grass syndrome also falls under this category.

(5) Anger - I'm angry at you, so I would rather cut off my nose to spite my face. No, I don't love you. I never did, i never have, I lied that I did, so sue me.

(6)Greed - Desire for material wealth and gain. Self-explanatory. Also, "I can't believe you ate THREE Happy Meals all by yourself! No wonder you've put on 25 kilos in the last one week! I can't love a fat man/woman! You look disgusting!"

(7) Sloth - I don't want to work at making things work, let's just call it quits.

 

I always find it really sad when my friends are so hurt that you go out with them and they just sit there looking really troubled and biting back their tears. It makes you want to go and bean their ex-significant other with a frying pan for causing that pain. Does it ever really get better? I don't think so. They say by the time you hit your late twenties, it's a rare person that doesn't have emotional baggage exceeding their check-in baggage quota.

 

If a relationship is to work, one must address all the seven sins above, and have a partner who is also willing to so address himself. It takes a lot of work, a lot of painful soul-searching and admission to one's flaws. Not many people are willing to do it. The question of whether or not to do this always seems to hinge on, do I like that person enough to put in the effort?

 

Man by nature has firefighting tendencies. We may believe that prevention is better than cure, but we very rarely ever put it into practice. By the time it comes to this impasse, either one or both parties are so hurt/angry/resentful that they can't remember the feelings they had for each other in the first place. We squander our wealth when we have it (and in the case of the American economy, credit card debt, but I digress). Why do we always have to push the envelope? I don't know.

 

I've looked at the self-help books, flipped through a few, bought a few for friends going through tough times. But everytime I read them, i can't help thinking that it's such a anthropological view to take.

 

For example, men are like rubber bands. When they're stressed with a problem, they retreat to their caves and they can only think about themselves at that point and their problems. All women can do is wait until they have come out. Please keep yourselves busy while the men are at it. Also, when they come out, don't give them a hard time, they're only adhering to their basic nature. Women are like waves. They peak and they crash. They need reassurance constantly. But Men, when you're in your caves or highly stressed, think about yourself first. You have nothing to give. If you try to give at that point in time, you'll drown. Girls, too bad, you're going to have to wait until he comes out.

 

That may truly the basic nature of man and woman, born and bred in our bones from time immemorial. In essence, what the book is trying to tell you is that you were born that way, you cannot change what you are, accept and live with it. Understand that that person is that way and will be that way forever, and if you want him/her, you're just going to have to accept that this is the way things are. A fair enough point, even if rather defeatist in nature. As the Chinese say, you don't throw eggs against a rock to wear it down, be the water that flows around and with the rock. I'm not complaining though, it does help to explain a lot.

 

I still can't help thinking. If a couple of centuries ago, some stalwart females had accepted that their role as accorded to them by nature was to bear babies and stay in the kitchen and the suffragette movement had not been born of their refusal to accept such domesticated role, the Statue of Liberty probably would not be female, and females still wouldn't be able to vote.

 

All around the Western world, girls and guys alike have eagerly seized the opportunity to sit on the 'men are like rubberbands and girls are like waves" bandwagon. "He's been caving for six months, I expect him back any second now.", "Oh, her wave is just breaking for the sixth time in two hours". But this accepts and endorses the basic principle that man is by nature selfish. It doesn't ask of you to be a better person than you can be. It doesn't ask you to improve yourself. It doesn't really ask anything of you, to be honest.

 

And even if you did just follow the rubberband and wave theory blindly, it still doesn't stop the other person from leaving you, for reasons related to the seven deadly sins as enumerated above.

 

Ultimately, the only way forward, in relationships of any sort, is consideration for others. Friends, family, colleagues, people you don't really know. Treat your friend as you would your boyfriend/girlfriend (except please don't sleep with them, it causes issues). Do unto others as you would have done unto you. Lead by example.

 

Some people believe that when you give in, and when you try to keep a relationship together, you're giving up your "power", or you're compromising your ideals. Some people think, wow, you did that? you're so nice, i would never be able to do that, i would tell him/her to go fly a kite. Just because you give in, you're made to feel that somehow, you're compromising yourself/your ideals/debasing yourself/being a doormat etc.

 

I think it really depends on the reason for which you are contemplating the actions that you take. If you're afraid of being alone - that is not reason enough, and you'll suffer terribly because consciously, you yourself would feel that you are in fact debasing yourself because you know your'e not doing it for the right reasons. You won't feel good about yourself, and that would translate into your partner not feeling good either because sure as hell your resentment is going to break free at some point in some form or the other.

 

But if your actions are borne out of your love for your friend or significant other, and you know that that is what they need at that point in time, who is to say you are compromising your ideals? Consideration has never been a crime. Giving has never been blacklisted either. Giving without any expectations - the highest ideal of all. Not very easy to achieve.

 

Sometimes, the hardest thing to do is to see past one's own imagined hurts and grievances and see how one has contributed to the impasse/breakdown of a relationship, and be honest to oneself about one's own faults. Sometimes, acknowledgement of this to the other person can be very hard. I know this for a fact.

 

Acknowledgement that one is responsible and accountable for one's own actions, and accepting the consequences of such actions, is equally difficult. Sometimes, the friend/significant other would just like to walk away from the table and leave everything behind. If you accept that you are responsible in some way for his or her decision to leave, then you should respect their decision and go. This is the hardest of all to do, because you have been denied the opportunity to make reparation for your wrongs. But you know that you deserve whatever hand you've been dealt, and whatever guilt you have, you'll just best have to deal with it yourself. No one said that penance was ever easy. Ultimately, however, nothing is wasted if you've learned a lesson from the experience. Chalk it down to one of life's experiences. No one said that life was easy, especially not when you're trying to do what you believe is right.

 

But.... I hope it helps. I just think it's such a pity, it's so hard to find someone whom you really feel something for in the first place, that to throw it away the first time you feel disheartened, well, you're only shortchanging yourself. So... give yourself a chance. Ok, let me qualify that. Only if they're willing to work on themselves too, otherwise you'll all crap on me when it doesn't work out again.

[smile95]

Very good post!

 

Question.....why do men go in caves? My ex would do this when he was stressed out and overwhelmed and it broke my heart. He would be away for weeks! Ignoring me. Then once he got his work or family issues solved and in order, he comes back for me and says sorry.......I understand men need caves and time, but do you not think that the girls have to draw a line somewhere? You say to just let them go......well, are we supposed to wait around while they get themselves in order???? I guess it is diff for everyone.....and other factors come in to play when they take their space. Actaully they should be man enough to tell us they need time and not just drop off the earh...lol

[upsetnhurt]

beth,

 

Most men do not run to the caves....the ones who are ready to commit to their significant others are the ones who rely on them to lend their support in all circumstances. Their actions alone should tell you that you are dating the wrong men and make it easier for you to move on.

[smile95]

I always thought that if I was datig a guy, I would be there to support them...this rununing from problems is crazy....I am going to look fwd to meeting the right one who will support me and let me support them!thanks

[adversity]

You should read Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus...

 

Something along the lines of when they have problems they deal with it differently - women talk about their problems, men withdraw to solve it themselves. Thus, the "Cave" syndrome.

 

I don't think it's true you should expect your significant other to support you every single time you ask for it. No one person can bear that much pressure, along with other everyday pressures. And if you did, aren't you being selfish too? Support me even if you have other problems that you have to deal with, my needs come first. Sure, if he/she doesn't have other things to deal with that are more pressing, I'm sure they would love to give you that support. But if they do have other things on their mind, and you keep demanding that you come first and they start not being able to keep their hand on the tiller, you'll be the first to go. You don't expect a drowning man to keep you afloat while he drowns do you? Would you be able to do the same if you were in that position? Sure, you would like to, but could you? Ask yourself truthfully.

 

Before you got in the relationship, you must have been able to support yourself. Why should that ability die just because you now have a significant other? Don't lose yourself.

 

When you were single and you felt you needed support, you turned to family, friends. Now you're in a relationship, you still have that support, so why demand it only of your significant other?

 

That's why I say, for a relationship to work, one must be able to look beyond one's own needs and understand the other person's situation and needs too.

[adversity]

Oh, and I didn't say to let them go and for you to wait around. You don't have to if you don't want to, you know. Plus, why is it waiting around? Go and do your own things. You had a life before you got in a relationship, no?

 

The whole point of the part on Mars and Venus is, why do we accept our shortcomings and those of others and not try to improve ourselves? Why do we accept that men and women are just the way they are, and not try to improve? It's hard, but I think it's a worthy cause.

 

Even what has been said here... it's not just a male thing right? Women apparently need constant reassurance too. Why do we need this in order to feel secure in our relationships? Maybe we should ask ourselves that too.

 

You say you want to meet the right one who will support you and will let you support him. I put it to you.... maybe your letting him have his space IS the support he needs to get his life in order. People need different kinds of support. Men and women need different kinds of support. For example, you demand Type A support, so you assume when he needs support he needs Type A support too. But maybe Type A support is poison to him, and he needs Type B. So are you going to insist on giving him Type A when what he really needs is Type B?

 

I say let them go if they are not willing to work on themselves and admit that they too, have a role to play in whether a relationship works or does not work. If they are not open to the possibility of change and/or adjustment, then whatever you do, it will not work out.

[smile95]

I guess if I got SOME support and his job was not always an excuse for him not fitting me in, I would be ok. But he is so selfish and I do not think that asking for a phone call after I was in surgery was too much to ask, but he had meetings all day! I could put up with my guy needing space, but if I gie him that, I would expect him to give me a little concern. Maybe your advice applies to some men, but not my ex who was so self involved.

[seachange]

I wish I'd written that. Especially the bit about accountability for your own actions - I'm in complete agreement; it's like you're reading my mind. (Although I've never thought about comparing relationship behavior to the seven deadly sins before!)

 

Beth - (I've read some of your story on this site, so I know a little about what's been going on with you) - I don't think the OP's words about compromise and consideration are meant to encourage enabling selfish behavior, like that of your ex.

 

This post, to me, is more about personal growth, and recognizing that settling for those 'caving' men and 'waving' women theories to explain how people are in a relationship is just easy and lazy.

 

Of course, owning your own behavior - and trying to change the knee-jerk reactive stuff that can lead to a downward spiral - is so freaking hard. But in the end, it's the only thing that matters. What the other person did wrong affects that particular relationship - and it may be a lot of bad stuff - but understanding what you yourself did wrong (even if it's just staying longer than you should have) affects all your future relationships.

[smile95]

Beth - (I've read some of your story on this site, so I know a little about what's been going on with you) - I don't think the OP's words about compromise and consideration are meant to encourage enabling selfish behavior, like that of your ex.

 

Oh good.....I was starting to think maybe I was expecting too much from him! But, I know better. I will use this info for future relationships!

[This_Too_Shall_Pass]

Adversity -- excellent post.

 

Did you really write that?!! I'm impressed!! You ought to write a book...

 

Actually, I wish there WAS a "relationship viewpoint" thread on LS...and then I would've been able to read and give my opinions on a multitude of topics...

 

Ah well - but then I think, doesn't debate and rhetoric make life more complicated?! Yesterday I heard this quote: "The main purpose of life should be to simplify".

 

Although I dare say I'm the champion of rhetoric myself...at least when it comes to thinking!!

[adversity]

Heh, thanks

 

Yeah, I wrote it because i started thinking about the issue. My friend is going through a breakup right now, and actually I wrote it to encourage him to give the girl one more chance. Guys just seem to get disheartened so early on in the relationship when things are not going swimmingly well.

[This_Too_Shall_Pass]

True. Guys probably think strictly in binary terms....it's either 0 or 1.... ...nothing like 1.5 or 1.7 in their "mental language".

 

Actually, I was impressed with your use of the language...you do write very lucidly, my friend! It's rare to come across someone with the capability to actually write out their entire thought process in such a logical manner. What's YOUR story...care to share it on LS?

 

Awwright...enough compliments for you!! Actually, I was thinking of posting a question here on LS, which I'm gonna do now.

[adversity]

Yeap, you're right, my head is swelling.

 

Actually it's not all that difficult to write - if you draft enough agreements, the rest will follow.

 

My story? Well, not that bad really. Just having difficulties with boyfriend, we've only been together 3 months but he's really stressed at work and has started telling me he can't handle a relationship on top of his work and family commitments.

 

I think he's too busy feeling sorry for himself at the moment *wuss*. I work longer hours than he does, and I don't feel stressed. But different strokes for different folks, so I'm trying to be understanding. It's difficult when he hasn't called for a few days and then only returns your call and sounds really distant. But we'll see how it goes. He sent me another break-up email on sunday about how he was sorry for everything under the sun and he felt weak and tired. i wrote him back and told him, not accepted try harder . And then got my secretary to evade his calls so he wrote me back asking me what he's supposed to do with me.

 

Hopefully we'll get through this difficult period and everything will be fine.

 

How about your story?

[This_Too_Shall_Pass]

Ah yeah!! I put some of my Sherlock Holmes antics to work and saw that you're a lawyer...whaddaya know..so am I!! Honest....I scared away a lot of people here on LS when I first happened to mention it

 

I'm not qualified to practice, though...by the time I was done with studying law and apprenticing, I decided I'd had enough and let my good heart take the better of me

 

So I decided to get a degree in business...just finished it 2 weeks back and joined the ranks of the unemployed (read: looking for a job).

 

 

Well, my story...it's pretty long and convoluted, and I started off my posting my story in someone else's post

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t64534/

 

and more details - can get a bit repetitive / boring, but hey, I'm sure you're used to reading worse

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t64703/

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t65296/

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t66436/

 

 

By the way...WOW again...you actually get to choose whether to accept your bf's rejection or not...I'm totally impressed!! Hey...if you have the PM function running, I can send you a message that way.

[adversity]

Erm... I'm not really sure how to PM, but if you show me how to set it up I have no objections

[This_Too_Shall_Pass]

...didn't get thru' to you.

It takes a while to gain PM ability, if you're very new...it took me about a week to be able to PM.

Also, you have to set your personal options as being able to recieve PM.

 

Once you're set, all you have to do is click on someone's user name and you'll get a drop-down menu with one of the options being "send this person a personal message".

 

Keep posting away and soon you'll be PMpowered!!

[adversity]

Re: not letting your boyfriend break up with you

 

i think it only works if he still cares for you... but then again, who knows? He's been working really hard, I think the only thing we really agree on is that we shall re-assess the situation once he's less busy/stressed. If at that point, he still wants to go, then I'll let him. No point in keeping someone who doesn't want to be with you. I don't want to break up with him, only for him to realize it was just his stress and then regret it. Then we'd have to spend 10,000 years talking about the reasons for the break-up. Might as well just be cheeky now and not allow it and wait for the storm to blow over before talking to him . Besides, I reminded him that fair is fair - all the times I wanted to break up with him, he never allowed it so why should i?

 

I read your posts though... my last ex made me feel the same way you're feeling now. It's the most agonizing feeling ever. I totally sympathise. The relationships that you get into where you feel the other person just didn't pull his weight or make any effort are the ones which are the hardest to get over. I think it's because you put in so much to get his approval/acceptance and hope that he would reciprocate, and to be cheated of that ultimately leaves a very bitter taste in one's mouth. I don't talk to this ex, but i see him every day - we work in the same law firm (thank god we have 15 floors). It wasn't even easy because I think there was some overlap between me and his next girlfriend (whom he married 3 months after we broke up and he started going out with her). It does get better though - I don't feel a thing when I see him at all. Now, we just ignore each other. Took me about 4 months.

 

So chin up! no worries. You tried your best, your conscience is clear... take comfort from that.

[adversity]

well, i've written in to see if they will allow it If so, i'll pm you once it's approved.