Bart_Stewart Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 Hi guys, Let’s say I’m a good looking chap, in my late thirties, and single. I have dated over like 30 girls (using a dating app) in the last year or two. On and off. I’m quite successful in closing dates, because my pictures are nice, I have a great job, I'm very educated, and my profile is funny. Yes, I have quite a good sense of humor. All in all, on the face of it, it seems I’m a great guy. (Okay, I'm not telling you the bad stuff here But, actually, on dates I seem to suck miserably. 99% of women I’ve dated in the last three or two years declined having a second date! The reason is always more or less the same, and because I’m a nice guy, and easy to talk with, some girls even tell me this to my face (or my whatsapp), or at least give me a very clear hint about the reason: something in the conversation didn’t attract them; I’m giving them a “friend vibe”; I’m not teasing them, I’m not arousing them sexually (okay, this is my interpretation, no woman have told me so in these exact words of course But it is clear: they all think I’m a great guy to talk to but there’s no sexual attraction I reckon. One girl even told me that “I’m certainly a very good looking guy; usually she could come with me to my apartment” but she doesn’t feel some connection. So the attraction is not about my looks, it’s my personality I guess..lol..or more to the point: my behavior is not “sexy” enough. Any advice? How should I be more cool/sexy in dates? Less talkative maybe?
d0nnivain Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 You sound like the typical "nice guy" & by nice guy I mean doormat who lacks self confidence, agrees with everything a woman says & can't form an opinion. In essence you let people walk all over you. I'm loathe to say this but go read & review some of the nonsense spewed by all the "pick up artist" gurus out there, Corey Wayne etc. Understand the majority of what they say is utter game playing misogynistic drivel but their bottom line is that you need self confidence & a dash of mystery. The PUA gurus are the male version of the book The Rules from the mid-1990s. It wasn't so much that a man won't respect a woman who agrees to a date offered to her on any day but Wednesday but it was about having self respect & not falling for every man who looked at her sideways.
Grey40 Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 Pretty hard to tell what you’re doing wrong without some examples of your conversation and dates. But basically, to succeed on dates you need to probably do a lot less talking overall (letting the woman know too much too soon doesn’t allow any mystery). Also, you want her to be asking YOU questions, and then you can ask her too. One thing I’m really good at is avoiding friend zone, I almost never have it happen and it’s because I make my intention clear. You have to be physical on the date, even the first date. You have to do some light touching and try and go for a kiss at some point. If a woman is attracted to you, she’s dying for you to make that move. The other thing is you don’t want to come off like your trying too hard. You want low key dates—just get some drinks at a bar or something, not fancy dinners or anything like that. Keep it super cool, fun, casual and playful and be touchy feely. Talk less because you’re probably saying things that make these girls perceive you as weak, insecure or “nice”. 1
coolheadal Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 Hi guys, Let’s say I’m a good looking chap, in my late thirties, and single. I have dated over like 30 girls (using a dating app) in the last year or two. On and off. I’m quite successful in closing dates, because my pictures are nice, I have a great job, I'm very educated, and my profile is funny. Yes, I have quite a good sense of humor. All in all, on the face of it, it seems I’m a great guy. (Okay, I'm not telling you the bad stuff here But, actually, on dates I seem to suck miserably. 99% of women I’ve dated in the last three or two years declined having a second date! The reason is always more or less the same, and because I’m a nice guy, and easy to talk with, some girls even tell me this to my face (or my whatsapp), or at least give me a very clear hint about the reason: something in the conversation didn’t attract them; I’m giving them a “friend vibe”; I’m not teasing them, I’m not arousing them sexually (okay, this is my interpretation, no woman have told me so in these exact words of course But it is clear: they all think I’m a great guy to talk to but there’s no sexual attraction I reckon. One girl even told me that “I’m certainly a very good looking guy; usually she could come with me to my apartment” but she doesn’t feel some connection. So the attraction is not about my looks, it’s my personality I guess..lol..or more to the point: my behavior is not “sexy” enough. Any advice? How should I be more cool/sexy in dates? Less talkative maybe? My friend we men find out these type of women are not for us. You settle for them. Stop dating women you are settle for. These women today are toxic. Some are not those are the ones you need to look for. I don't know what you looking for but whatever you doing isn't working. Just maybe you trying to hard. Love will come for everyone including us men. But like I said women today are not like they were years ago. Everything is either how much you make where do you live, do you work. Instead of saying how you are, we might connect, lets go have some fun. Nope it's never those words. But all these women forget them. You start looking in places you haven't look before. Even if you have to try harder and sure you might be nice but we nice guys can be a bit more Alpha male. They say beta males don't get the good dates. Well we can if we all work for it! You get them a rose you open the doors you do things for them. Alpha leads them to where they are going with him. Don't open the doors don't get them flowers. Tell them what you want to do and don't ask them where you want to take them. You got to change it up a bit. I know sounds harsh but these type of women are expecting you to be their leader. Not their buddy, chatter box. Kind of hard but I see where they're going. Bad, toxic ex BF are to blame sometimes the family they grew up in too. Just don't know how women are today. But you can have your plan your game as well to correct this. Make your life a better one.
Logo Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) Binge watch Crazy, Stupid, Love with Ryan Gosling, and Hitch with Will Smith. Edited June 15, 2018 by Logo
Andy_K Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 One girl even told me that “I’m certainly a very good looking guy; usually she could come with me to my apartment” And you let that go? This is what she really said: "You're really hot, and I'd like an excuse to sleep with you, but I want some build up, some tension or flirting. I've almost given up, so this is your last chance to man up and challenge my assumptions, take the initiative, ramp up the chemistry, and persuade me to" If you've dated 30 girls, and you're a genuinely good looking guy, I'd expect at least a handful of them to have been perfectly willing to kiss you at the end of the date and give you another chance, no matter how little flirting was done. I'd suggest you need to make a little more effort to figure out signs of interest and when you can escalate things physically. 1
salparadise Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 I agree with the advice in previous replies, esp. about confidence, not being perceived as too agreeable, too nice, or trying too hard. And yes, it's important to telegraph some masculine sexual energy her way, but in a manner that's not pushy or offensive. It's a fine line, and the men who intuitively transmit that kind of energy are the ones women want to sleep with. It works in a very subtle way, but the cues are unmistakable and effective (assuming all else is good). The same is true for women... she can be great looking in photos but if she's not giving off any sexual energy... I'd rather have the energy. So, yea some light touching, good eye contact, maybe even some innuendo if you can do so without being obvious or offensive. I remember once on a first date there was a lull in the conversation (the vibe was good) and she said, so tell me exactly what you're thinking right now. And I said, you know I can't do that... why not? Because then you'd have to slap me and we'd get thrown outta here. She loved it, and referred back to it whenever SHE wanted to crank it up. I am not a natural at this stuff at all, but've learned how it works. You gotta get inside their hoola-hoop, physically, mentally, and emotionally. But you gotta do so in a way that feels like positive energy. Here's a post of mine from several years that has the gist of it all.
heavenonearth Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 It sounds to me like you expect women owe you things. You may think they owe you a second date, a kiss, sex, etc. They don't! If these 30 women did not feel the connection they need to feel to go on a second date (and let's face it: we go on a second date because we can imagine that there may be a real relationship developing at some point. Otherwise we are wasting our time), they will not wishy-wash around and play no games - they just simply won't see you again. Yeah, maybe it is something about you that puts women off. Clearly, this seems to be evident after 30 dates with 30 different women. However -- I also think, that perhaps the right one just was not amongst them just yet. I think you may have to adjust your attitude. Contrary to what coolheadal wrote above (do not believe him, he is a man, he does NOT know what women want), Women don't only look for a guy who is nice, who has money and who negs them with sexy talk. No. Quite the contrary. Women mainly look for an emotional connection. And if there is no emotional connection, there won't be a second date. Perhaps there is something about you, that comes across as unemotional or closed off. Perhaps you are not as open as you think you are? There's a lot of possibilities. It's hard to say with what you shared here, but I think you need to reevaluate the way you behave on these dates. What do you talk about? Do you ask questions? Do you share only bullet points of your life, or do you actually talk about interesting things, such as world events, creative stuff, hobbies, exciting stories out of your life, maybe some travels you did, etc..? Have you ever noticed you covered common ground with any of your dates? If you are unable to create an emotional connection to the person you're on a date with, there will NEVER be a second date. 1
Author Bart_Stewart Posted June 15, 2018 Author Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) "It sounds to me like you expect women owe you things. You may think they owe you a second date, a kiss, sex, etc. They don't!" - Never said anything of the like. I was asking for advice. "What do you talk about? Do you ask questions? Do you share only bullet points of your life, or do you actually talk about interesting things, such as world events, creative stuff, hobbies, exciting stories out of your life, maybe some travels you did, etc..? Have you ever noticed you covered common ground with any of your dates?" - Yes to all. They all say the conversation was really interesting, great...blah blah...even on the date itself. "Perhaps there is something about you, that comes across as unemotional or closed off. Perhaps you are not as open as you think you are?" "If you are unable to create an emotional connection to the person you're on a date with, there will NEVER be a second date. " - Yep. This is a problem. No emotional connection. I presume also no sexual tension. I'm not very open emotionally. Of course. Any advice here? Edited June 15, 2018 by Bart_Stewart
Author Bart_Stewart Posted June 15, 2018 Author Posted June 15, 2018 "I agree with the advice in previous replies, esp. about confidence, not being perceived as too agreeable, too nice, or trying too hard. " - I'm not needy I think at all, nor trying too hard. Am I too agreeable? Maybe. Confident? I would say nothing special here. Not confident but not in-confident.
Author Bart_Stewart Posted June 15, 2018 Author Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) "And you let that go? This is what she really said: "You're really hot, and I'd like an excuse to sleep with you, but I want some build up, some tension or flirting. I've almost given up, .." This was part of her excuse speech at the end of the date why she's not going to date me any longer. She was also drunk. I tried to grab on that, and offer her my place, but she declined of course "so this is your last chance to man up and challenge my assumptions, take the initiative, ramp up the chemistry, and persuade me to"" - Precisely! So my question is what should I do in order to build this build-up, sexual tension. I'm obviously not good at it/don't know the basics..lol. Any concrete advice? Edited June 15, 2018 by Bart_Stewart
Author Bart_Stewart Posted June 15, 2018 Author Posted June 15, 2018 "You sound like the typical "nice guy" & by nice guy I mean doormat who lacks self confidence, agrees with everything a woman says & can't form an opinion. In essence you let people walk all over you. " LOL. Yeah I'm quite nice. But certainly not a doormat, etc. I usually don't really agree with what a woman, nor man, say...lol. This causes sometimes problems...I'm slightly opinionated in fact. But maybe I don't show this on dates. I presume I should ..?
BaileyB Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 "You sound like the typical "nice guy" & by nice guy I mean doormat who lacks self confidence, agrees with everything a woman says & can't form an opinion. In essence you let people walk all over you. " LOL. Yeah I'm quite nice. But certainly not a doormat, etc. I usually don't really agree with what a woman, nor man, say...lol. This causes sometimes problems...I'm slightly opinionated in fact. But maybe I don't show this on dates. I presume I should ..? Opinionated is not good on a first date. There is a good chance you can **** someone off if you have a strong opinion about something and you disagree. Women like men who make them feel good about themselves and who are fun to be around. If you have confidence, you look good, and you can build some fun and flirty sexual tension... That will do it too.
Author Bart_Stewart Posted June 15, 2018 Author Posted June 15, 2018 "Opinionated is not good on a first date. There is a good chance you can **** someone off if you have a strong opinion about something and you disagree. Yes, of course. I was answering another comment here. as I wrote, I don't let it show on dates. "Women like men who make them feel good about themselves and who are fun to be around. If you have confidence, you look good, and you can build some fun and flirty sexual tension... That will do it too." -- Obviously I can't build some fun and flirty sexual tension. That's the reason I can't secure any 2nd date. Any concrete advice on this?
BaileyB Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 "Opinionated is not good on a first date. There is a good chance you can **** someone off if you have a strong opinion about something and you disagree. Yes, of course. I was answering another comment here. as I wrote, I don't let it show on dates. "Women like men who make them feel good about themselves and who are fun to be around. If you have confidence, you look good, and you can build some fun and flirty sexual tension... That will do it too." -- Obviously I can't build some fun and flirty sexual tension. That's the reason I can't secure any 2nd date. Any concrete advice on this? And then you said "You presume you should..." I would suggest that you avoid topics or opinions that would cause conflict on dates. That's all. Do you have good attending behaviors - do you smile, mirror her behaviors (ie. if she touches your arm, you touch her arm), laugh when appropriate, maintain eye contact, etc... For me, it's about having a nice conversation. Try to find some commonalities when you are talking and enjoy a shared experience. Show her that you are interested in getting to know her and that you find what she is saying interesting. Do you have a sense of humor? Try to keep things light and easy, make her laugh, tease her gently about some of the things she says... That goes a long way... The first night that I went out with my boyfriend, he asked me when I needed to be home... He said "What time do you turn into a pumpkin?" (from Cinderella). It's a silly thing, but it was charming. And, then there is some light touch when the moment is right - take her hand for a moment, brush her arm, a hand on her back to guide her to her seat. 1
Author Bart_Stewart Posted June 15, 2018 Author Posted June 15, 2018 "And, then there is some light touch when the moment is right - take her hand for a moment, brush her arm, a hand on her back to guide her to her seat." No. I rarely touch a girl on a first date. I don't feel very confident touching a girl I barely know...she may also not feel comfortable about it....I dunno...maybe I should
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 It's probably mannerisms or something you're not even aware of. Here's what/who comes to mind for me. There's a TV show called Below Deck, which is a reality show about "yachties" (people who work on privately chartered yachts). One of the cast members is a very handsome man, and I imagine he'd look great on paper/in a dating profile. He has a great physique and handsome face. But when he opens his mouth.....his personality is super hyper and so over the top, it ruins all of it (for me anyway). He has a "tries too hard" personality. Google Bobby Giancola. I'm not saying this is *exactly* your issue since I do not know you and have never heard you speak . Just relaying how pictures and a written profile sometimes don't match voice/manner of speaking, etc. 1
d0nnivain Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 LOL. Yeah I'm quite nice. But certainly not a doormat, etc. I usually don't really agree with what a woman, nor man, say...lol. This causes sometimes problems...I'm slightly opinionated in fact. But maybe I don't show this on dates. I presume I should ..? First rather than using quotes, click on the quote button & the specific text will come up in your reply. It will make it easier to follow. Anyway, you can have opinions & you can express them. What you can't do is shove your point of view or personal philosophy down somebody else's throat with no regard for how they feel. When I say exert yourself I'm talking about choice of restaurants or what movie to see. For example when you ask the Q should be Would you like to have dinner with me at the Main Street Café on Thursday? Do not say wanna hang out some time & then dither about when & where. For early dates avoid dumping the choice of place on her; you suggest some place that you like to go. if she says no that doesn't work for me because I'm vegetarian or gluten free or something be flexible but otherwise you have lead. Flirt with your date on the date. There is a fine line between being overly sexually aggressive & demonstrating romantic / sexual interest. Do toe that line but don't cross it. Tease her. Touch her (but don't paw at her). Hold hands. Look into her eyes. Make her laugh. 2
Lotsgoingon Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 You asked for some concrete advice. First, I am gonna guess that you have a malfunctioning "feeling" radar ... because it sounds like you wanted to go on second dates with ALL of these women. Red flag. At least half of these women clearly weren't interested in you ... and if you had a friend nearby listening and observing that would have been obvious to the friend. And for a lot of these dates, it would have been clear to your friend that you were really not interested in them. So you've got to learn to pay attention to this. To pick a random number, I would say 75 percent of people you meet on a first date, you won't feel an attraction to ... You might like them, think they are pretty, perfectly pleasant, somewhat interesting. But you're not feeling an electric charge. Think about say the top 5 best people you met ... and the good feeling you had ... Or think about who made you butterfly-nervous during the date. Someone with whom you felt something strong, that their beauty touched you or the way they talked really interested you. Those are the people you want second dates with. To stay out of the friendzone, utter words that reflect your positive feelings. Wow, you look great in that color. That's a beautiful outfit you have on ... Those earrings look great on you. ... or "I love the way you talk." "Sounds like you are great at doing X. That's really cool." The real irony here is ... you can be honest. What do you really like about this person? And speak that. And speak it when you feel it. You are are looking for GREAT energy during first meetings. In a great date, the person will show enthusiasm and energy in the way they share, the way they listen to you, the way they build on your comments. They may compliment you ... or agree with an idea you have. And the exchange between you two will have a charged energy. Not just polite like a job interview of something. (Actually the best job interviews often have this charged energy.) And yes, you actually do want to share those opinions of yours ... or I would say share your interests. Sharing on hobbies, long-term goals, favorite movies, favorite music ... whatever... allows the other person to sense you are a real person--an individual--not just a generic guy who shows up in uniform, polite without really saying anything. And you'll see who is not your type. You're probably over-editing yourself, covering up your passions and interests... so the person doesn't get a sense of vitality and real interests and individuality. And you want to be listening for signs of their passions, their real life outside of the date. The truth is ... people are often more attracted to someone whose energy is clear--even if the person has rough edges and views they don't fully agree with--than they are to someone who is generically "nice." And it's OK if you are turned on by someone who isn't turned on by you. That will happen ... and it will happen to them as well ... Next date! 2
coolheadal Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 Wow he's giving us his own opinion to what he's doing wrong with these women. Well in the long run it's you and these women you decide to go on a date with. Those in the past you won't be able to fix things with the next ones you date you should gather enough good advise here from us all on LS trying to help you. If you not emotionally into the date then there is a problem with you. What I should ask you is this have you ever dated in high school and if yes did any of those dates ever work out for you?
Imajerk17 Posted June 16, 2018 Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) I realize that I am late to this thread. I have been meaning to respond to this for the past couple of days. I hope the OP is still around. This really is a great topic. We have many guys on here who struggle with dating and don't have looks nor money, and they think that if they had those things their dating lives would turn around. That actually isn't the case and this thread illustrates this. Meanwhile I don't think the OP is "entitled" at all (RE a couple of the female responses who claimed that he was) I think instead he is, understandably, quite frustrated and confused. My guess is that you (OP) do not convey masculine energy and so your dates lack masculine-feminine polarity. Your date wants to be noticed as a woman (which is really a big part of what "teasing" is), she wants to be desired, she wants to feel that she shared a part of herself that she hardly ever gets to share with anyone else, and she even wants to feel that she got to see a piece of you that you hardly share w anyone else. Having a nice informative conversation about travel or your resume won't cut it. 1. RE your being "respectful" and getting physical. Women want to get physical just as much as we do. They don't want to feel 'forced' into doing anything yet they want us to be the one leading. You likely are playing it way too safe in that regard. Your not touching her on the first date actually comes across, to her, as behavior of a guy who isn't interested in her. If she opens up to you/tells you something really cool about herself or if she compliments you, go for holding her hand! 2. The woman who told you that you were a good-looking guy and usually she could see herself coming up to your apartment: I agree w Andy K that you should not have let that go. A good response back to that may have been "Well maybe you should be flirting harder with me". Edited June 16, 2018 by Imajerk17
mortensorchid Posted June 16, 2018 Posted June 16, 2018 It's hard to say. If I had an answer I would tell you (or anyone else) what the answer is, but I don't have it. All I can say to you in this situation (without specific examples) is that the women you went with were not for you. I have been out on so many OLDs I have lost count, and many of them were unremarkable : You meet, have an evening, then you part ways and … You never hear a word from that person ever again. In maybe 5% of the time you MAY get a callback from that person, or that person will send text messages the next day. And eventually it tapers off and you never hear a word from them again after that. I can tell you that I don't date anymore partly because of this. I am tired of the disappointments and the frustrations and the not having enough courtesy to one another. But, that's life and that's people, as I have found out.
smackie9 Posted June 17, 2018 Posted June 17, 2018 OK this is what I like to see...friendly banter. Nothing more sexy than a guy that can be cheeky and have quick wit. Being a little mysterious..not revealing every detail about yourself..please don't give it al away. Posture/ body language is important. Be more aloof, confident, cocky, have a swagger in your walk. Never ever be eager to please or impress. Being a people pleaser is a total turn off. You know, always agreeing and crap, never having an opinion. Dress trendy/masculine. T-shirt sports jacket, Van runners, edgy jeans....don't be afraid to go a little rugged looking, some facial hair, etc. Positive good flowing conversation is key. if you are one of those that can't stop themselves from drawing out a boring story...just stop it. Good/strong eye contact. Be a man and stop looking down at your feet.
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