planb1973 Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 I need to get this out. I'm back to being single"ish" after the first vacation I took with the woman I had been dating for 8 months. When I met her I had been avoiding relationships for a while. Due to some back to back heartaches I ventured out into the world of being a male slut. It was fun but I always felt the desire for something more. And then I met her. After a month I made a graceful exit from the other women I had been casually seeing to concentrate on this one woman. Another month later I told her I was not dating anyone else, she responded with the same. There was always this side of her where I didn't get a sense of transparency, she is very private and was somewhat fresh out of a long abusive relationship. I took this to be a time for me to just take things slow to give her the proper space for trust to build. I've been in that exact situation so I had a lot of understanding for this. On top of this she is bisexual and expressed her desire to be with women. Her previous relationship was full of sex parties, swinging, and other activities beyond my level of kinkiness. I was clear that some of it made me uncomfortable and some I was definitely interested in perusing as long as it was something we shared together. Six months in to this relationship a woman I had not talked to in a long time bluntly propositioned me for sex. I turned her down due to the relationship I was in, but then mentioned to my GF what had been asked of me and proposed a threesome, which I have never had before. During that conversation I was informed that my GF had been active on a dating site for bisexual women... I was shocked! She told me she thought I knew and I prodded her to tell me in what conversation she had been transparent in informing me of this. I racked my brain trying to think of conversations where I had miss heard important details or ignored signs that I did not want to be true. After some long conversations about this I took the stand that I was not interested in an open relationship. That I was not opposed to her desire to be with women but I need complete transparency if she wanted to continue a relationship with me. Our conversations always seemed to be health as in no eruptions, name calling, yelling, or blaming. Honestly that aspect of her is what kept me willing to get past this as it was a blessing compared to past relationships. Fast forward two more months to the road trip that ended it. Things were going much better and we were leaving for 9 days to drive to Utah and have some adventuring. The trip was going well. When we left I had told her that I had some anxiety about traveling together as my past experiences with traveling with GFs always ended in a breakup. She also expressed how her previous BF had left her on the side of the road more than once and I assured her I would never do anything like that. And then the fist minor bump happened. I had come back from taking pictures to her reading a meditation book in the trailer. I went to kiss her and she pulled back a bit, I thought she was just deep into what ever she was reading so I found something else to do. A while later I went for another kiss and was met with the same. I could tell something was up and later when I went in for a cuddle she just stared at the ceiling. I asked "Is something bothering you, you seem really distant right now" to which she said "no, nothing is wrong". Five minutes later she blurts out "Are we going to have sex or what?" Being very confused by this I told her I had been warming up to her but my advances were being met with rejection. She told me she wanted me to ask for it directly and to use my words. Feeling really confused by this I took the lead, placed candles around the trailer and had some slightly awkward sex. This incident was brought up on our second to last day after being in the car for 12 hours and a major battle was on. I have spent years working on my communication skills and know it is important to listen to the other person and try to understand their perspective. This I did not get at all. When I told her that when I went to kiss her and cuddle up to her that I was feeling rejected, even so far as to ask what was wrong to which she told me I was wrong in feeling that way. I responded after a deep breath "please don't tell me I am wrong for having the feelings I was having, they are my feelings, they are my feelings and neither right nor wrong. To which she replied with "But you are wrong!" The gloves now came off and I called BS, these specific things happened and do not try to manipulate me into thinking they did not. We still had two hours to drive till we were at our destination. I was far from being in a happy place and just wanted to go home. I have worked so hard on my communication skills and felt they were all falling apart. After she broke the insinuating silence I told her I did not feel safe talking about my feeling because I am consistently being interrupted and told that I am wrong and that I just wanted to not be driving, get some sleep, and try fresh in the morning. The next morning the first thing I did was apologize for being upset, that I had lost my ability to communicate in a healthy manner and really just needed to feel safe in being vulnerable. We got home after another long day in the truck but were affectionate and just let the previous night be in the past. Then it all blew up. The following day she had posted pictures of our trip with no mention of me. I called her out on it telling her it hurt my feeling that she excluded me, and they were my photos. To which she wanted to know why I did not post anything of out trip. I reminded her that I had just drove 4000 miles in 8 days and had not hardly even had a chance to look at the pictures I took and suddenly I was being accused of being passive aggressive. It is so stupid to fight over something like post on FB! I told her that I had all intention of posting our trip with stories and pictures but when i saw I was not even mentioned I lost all energy to do so. The attacks kept coming till she hung up. Days later we talked and she admitted she was purposely did not include me because she was hurt that I had not posted anything during our trip. A lot of things came out in that conversation. She was never looking for a relationship, her recovery in AA was too much to be in a relationship, and finally came clean that she had infact slept with a couple women since she had met me. Oh, but she loves me and wants to be friends and still sleep together... Thats my story. If you read through all of that I thank you. I have too many questions to be specific, but I really need to get all that off my chest.
Lotsgoingon Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 Sorry to hear of your pain ... She sounds quite skilled at manipulative behavior ... She knew she hadn't told you about sleeping with women ... That was fake on her part ... And dude, even if she genuinely forgot, that's the forget that's the equivalent of going to court and saying, "I forgot murder was against the law." No dice ... Sounds like she's got lots of issues going on ... I sense she is far more manipulative and skilled at that than you are skilled at handling someone who is manipulative and slick ... So run brother ... run ... reflect ... learn ... and move on ... She's not safe. 1
Purepony Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 Drop that clown and learn from your mistakes. You don’t need to be friends, she probably wants to be friends to feel better about her self or because she’s already checked out. I know it hurts and it’s peobably not what you wanted because it sounds like you did like her but unfortunately she sounds to jaded to be in a relationship
ExpatInItaly Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 Please, do not remain friends with this woman. And for all that is holy, do not agree to be her sex buddy. She is not looking for the same things you are, whatsoever. She has had one foot out the door the whole time you've been together.
frigginlost Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 Dude, first off, congrats on your communication skills. If you worded everything to her as you did to us, there is absolutely no fault in anything you have done. Second, run. She is a manipulator of the highest order. She will have an answer for everything that spins what you say 180 degrees. Seriously, do not stay with this woman. There are major, major, red flags. (Ask me how I know ;-))
bathtub-row Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 This girl is flat out nuts. Period. Probably not helpful but it’s completely beyond me why anyone would date another person who claims to be bi-sexual, unless they themselves are also bi. There’s a storm just begging to build into hurricane proportions.
Author planb1973 Posted June 13, 2018 Author Posted June 13, 2018 I just feel sick about all this! Years ago I went through a long horrendous relationship with a BPD woman. The ending of this relationship brought me into therapy where I have grown in such wonderful ways. This is the first time to my knowledge that I have been lied to and manipulated in this way. But it is all clear now. It just hurts and I am feeling stupid for not seeing things that were being hidden from me. The lack of transparency, or privacy, as I saw it was all just lies. Ignorance is bliss they say, until you receive truth and then you feel ignorant. I do know friendship is not an option. I am only friends with people I can trust. Even my therapist was shocked when I told her about details of the trip. Her comment was "sounds like there are some deep rooted issues that have nothing to do with you and I would take a very neutral stance for a while and see what develops" that was before more of the story came to fruition.
Lotsgoingon Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) You don't have to despair ... if you're someone who got involved with a person with bpd ... then you have some glitches in your software ... and it takes some time to repair those glitches ... Intellectually knowing you need to avoid trouble isn't enough. You need a certain amount of practice to figure out how to find healthy people to date. That means experiences just like this one. Most likely your glitches are ... you are too "forgiving" at the start of a relationship ... and you aren't skeptical enough to notice signs of trouble. Her lack of transparency as you call it (I would call it distance and silence and hiding her past) ... major red flag. You want to notice this next time. You can even say, hey, I'm not comfortable dating someone who hides their past from me. Then the ball is in her corner to explain what the deal is. If she's still not forthcoming ... hit pause ... She was recently in an abusive relationship ... major red flag ... not that the abuse is her fault ... but ... there are people drawn to abusive relationships ... and you want to know that ... being drawn to abusive relationships pretty much means they aren't comfortable with a healthy relationship. (They've got glitches in their software that will take time to repair.) So that's two red flags before we even get to the lie ... that she thought you knew she was seeing other women. Of course, that was absolutely the point to end things ... and run ... but you talked your way past this red flag as well. Without being bitter, you have to practice being skeptical ... takes time ... So don't be too bummed that this reminds you of a previous relationship. Plus, I hate to tell you this ... most likely you are naturally drawn towards people who will betray you ... yeah, that happens ... So all the more important that you pay skeptical attention in a relationship. I had a girlfriend who had bpd ... Then my next gf was someone who wasn't that into me ... but I missed that ... and worked so hard and was totally into her ... Thankfully this person wasn't abusive or deceitful ... though she did hide that she wasn't that into me ... I'm way better now ... and I pay attention ... and I add some skepticism ... and I really work to not talk myself past something that doesn't feel right. Most likely you feel the discomfort in your body, but you ignore that feeling ... Sometimes that comes from the families we grew up in ... Bottom line: you will be better in the next relationship as long as you practice bringing some skepticism and critical thinking to the table. And you can do this while still being a lovely person. Edited June 13, 2018 by Lotsgoingon
Logo Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 Manipulation in a relationship is soul draining. I would walk away and not look back.
Lotsgoingon Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 I just noticed something that is relevant here to standing up for yourself and paying attention to red flags and bad signs in a relationship. You labeled your post "First fight ..." Dude, the betrayal when you discovered that she was sleeping with other women ... that SHOULD have been a major fight. Or actually, that should have been an immediate firing ... Think of this way: there is no bigger betrayal in a relationship. None ... So that moment deserved a confrontation fight ... note: I'm speaking nonviolence here ... But it's interesting that the title of your post is "First fight ..." You're suggesting the goal is to avoid confronting another person. Actually that's NOT the goal. Confrontations and yes .. .sometimes fights are quite necessary for a good relationship. At some point, people are gonna disagree and disagree strongly ... The fights need to be nonviolent physically and verbally ... But the title strikes me as relevant to your journey ... But the fights are often where people learn what truly triggers and upsets the other person ... or when that other person feels violated. Confrontations are excellent ... as long as the language doesn't get abusive. And when you discovered the betrayal ... she didn't reveal it without your questioning ... That was fighting time ... right then and there ... and ... time for you to be out the door. If someone betrays us that early in a relationship and we move past that quickly ... we forgive them ... basically ... we've just told them that they can treat us any old way and we'll get over it. Game over. You will never get respect from that person. You want to develop this ability to stand up for yourself ...
Author planb1973 Posted June 14, 2018 Author Posted June 14, 2018 I just noticed something that is relevant here to standing up for yourself and paying attention to red flags and bad signs in a relationship. You labeled your post "First fight ..." Dude, the betrayal when you discovered that she was sleeping with other women ... that SHOULD have been a major fight. Or actually, that should have been an immediate firing ... Think of this way: there is no bigger betrayal in a relationship. None ... So that moment deserved a confrontation fight ... note: I'm speaking nonviolence here ... But it's interesting that the title of your post is "First fight ..." You're suggesting the goal is to avoid confronting another person. Actually that's NOT the goal. Confrontations and yes .. .sometimes fights are quite necessary for a good relationship. At some point, people are gonna disagree and disagree strongly ... The fights need to be nonviolent physically and verbally ... But the title strikes me as relevant to your journey ... But the fights are often where people learn what truly triggers and upsets the other person ... or when that other person feels violated. Confrontations are excellent ... as long as the language doesn't get abusive. And when you discovered the betrayal ... she didn't reveal it without your questioning ... That was fighting time ... right then and there ... and ... time for you to be out the door. If someone betrays us that early in a relationship and we move past that quickly ... we forgive them ... basically ... we've just told them that they can treat us any old way and we'll get over it. Game over. You will never get respect from that person. You want to develop this ability to stand up for yourself ... I hear you Lotsgoingon load and clear. When I labeled the fight on the road trip as the first its because that was the first time there was an eruption from me, I was so mad I lost my ability to communicate. and mainly because I know myself well enough that if I keep going with that amount of anger I will say things I regret. When I found out about her still on a dating site, two months ago, she was the one who came out with it. And there WAS a confrontation. I did not just cave. I clearly expressed my hurt, boundaries, and needs all while not loosing my temper. Someone just out of an abusive relationship is a red flag. Mine was 5 years ago and I know all about what drives people to be in those relationships. For me it was about lack of self worth, that I did not deserve any better. That took a lot of work to realize and work on. And I got really good really fast at seeing toxicity in people and avoiding them like the plague. This woman did a fantastic job of not letting me see things I wish I had seen. Not to justify her behavior but I always knew that the time would come where she wanted to be sexual with a woman. This was known from the start and I never told her that it was out of the question. Some aspects of it actually turn me on and would open the door for me to fulfill some of my fantasies. The hiding it and lying about it is the betrayal. Had she simply talked to me about it we could have discussed it and explored that aspect of sexuality openly. She called last night wanting to talk to which I did not reply. All I see is manipulation and now that its clear that is all I see.
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