Blimps321 Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 I'm 28. She's 25. We met at work. She's religious, and prays at a temple every week. She's never had a boyfriend in her life. Also her parents are currently looking for her to get married this year or next year through an arranged marriage with someone in India. Her dad literally has an excel sheet of guys to look at. She grew up in a western environment though, and would rather meet someone organically in America, so she's somewhat against the arranged marriage stuff. She then met me - someone from the same ethnicity/background as her, and would fit well with her family. We had casual lunch hangouts initially, and connected well. We even went to a temple together and prayed. I eventually asked her out, and we had a few dates to get to know each other. They went great, and I was happy. At the end of one of the dates, I tried to kiss her, and she resisted it, but we kept talking normally. She then went on vacation for 2 weeks. We talked everyday, and she was very into my life and sharing hers. After she came back, she would always say no to hanging out outside of work. I asked her if she was into this still and she said "No i'm not sorry". I think I became wayyy too available by talking everyday, and didn't give her any space to miss me at all. She rejected me, and I was somewhat devastated, but just simply said "Ok" and left it at that. Didn't want to be needy. Now two weeks later, I asked her to grab lunch with me, and she agreed. It went well, I just acted friendly. She dressed up really nicely, and wore a lot of makeup. She kept touching her necklace a lot like she was nervous. She asked a lot of questions about my life, especially after awkward silences. I asked her to describe me in a few words, and she said "Mysterious" and "Outgoing". She then asked me how my dating life is going, and what apps I'm on. She also talked a lot about her arranged marriage issues with her family too, and that she really just wants to be friends with a guy first before moving into dating. To build trust. I think me trying to kiss her on a date set off some alarms maybe? And that could have scared her off and made her unsure. A lot of dating advice I read says to try and kiss early or you'll be "friend zoned", but this situation with this girl feels different. After this lunch hangout, I really feel like she's into me again. I think the time apart helped. I'm really not sure how to play this though. Should I just be friends with her for a while? Should I ask her to hangout again outside of work? Maybe just stick to lunch hangouts at work? I really like this girl, but I don't want to scare her off again.
Gaeta Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 But why? she is going to agree to this arranged marriage at the end. Playing friends with her is the best way for you to have a reception invitation to this wedding. Tell her you want to date her *officially* and see what comes out of it. 1
kendahke Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 A lot of dating advice I read says to try and kiss early or you'll be "friend zoned", but this situation with this girl feels different. That doesn't apply to women from families who arrange their marriages, no matter if she grew up westernized---her parents didn't and that's who matters in her life. Unless she is completely independent of her parents--meaning their approval doesn't mean a hill of beans to her and she is down with never dealing with them after taking a course of action they don't approve of--she's probably going to be married to the guy in India because she'd rather cut off her head than go against their wishes and be ostracized from them.
d0nnivain Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 I would ask her if this friendship goes well would she consider introducing you to her parents so that you can get on the dad's excel spread sheet. If she's not even willing to ask about potentially marrying you with her parents' blessing, then what is the point of your attraction to her? 1
LifeBeginsAt40 Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 Us human's are funny hey... Had a friend in exactly this situation. She was a very attractive girl and her parents were arranging meetings with men from other well connected families pretty much every weekend. We used to joke about who she was being setup with this coming weekend. She had secretly been seeing a white guy for 5 years, and he had proposed. She didn't tell her family and never wore the ring etc. Finally told them, all hell broke lose. She got married to the white guy anyway with none of her family there. Her sister was the only one who attended, and she gave her away. Very sad. Anyway, now there is a baby and the family have shock horror come around to the idea. Mum is now playing happy grandparent and all seems to be kind of well other than there is an underlying resentment I'm told at family gatherings. Love conquers all at the end of the day. I guess if she wants to be with you she will regardless of her parents. I know I would. Guess I've not had to walk in those shoes though so hard to say what the reality is.
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 Anyway, now there is a baby and the family have shock horror come around to the idea. Mum is now playing happy grandparent and all seems to be kind of well other than there is an underlying resentment I'm told at family gatherings. Love conquers all at the end of the day. Something similar happened with a white friend of mine who married/had four babies with her black boyfriend/husband. Time, patience and grace healed so much. I was recently at the 1st birthday party for the former racist's first great-grandchild (whose father is also mixed race) and the diversity in that room was heartwarming. The black grandmother wrote such a nice letter to the baby mama (her granddaughter) about how she, being the firstborn in the mixed family, brought all of their families together and broke down barriers, stereotypes, and hate. The families are now very close and do lots of stuff together. It's so beautiful to see.
smackie9 Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 From what I have seen about the arranged marriage stuff...if you wish to marry her, you must meet her parents, and introduce yourself, bring a gift and all that. Show them you have good intentions, and maybe they will consider you. 2
alphamale Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 From what I have seen about the arranged marriage stuff...if you wish to marry her, you must meet her parents, and introduce yourself, bring a gift and all that. Show them you have good intentions, and maybe they will consider you. And the gift should be quite considerable as her parents will be assessing your financial situation and future earning potential 2
Author Blimps321 Posted June 6, 2018 Author Posted June 6, 2018 Hey everyone, thanks for the responses. For clarification: her parents would be very content with me. The point of the arranged marriage is so she will end up with someone with a similar background/ethnicity/caste. I am of that same background, so her parents would like me, and I have a decent salary. My problem here is trying to date her again after her initially rejecting me.
d0nnivain Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 My problem here is trying to date her again after her initially rejecting me. Stop using the word "date". It's scaring her. Substitute the words "hang out." Use her vocabulary about being friends first. Ask her to spend time with you to get to know each other better. Promise her "it's not a date." She wants reassurance that you won't try to kiss her or hold her hand or anything physical. What she's misunderstanding is that a "date" is simply the word / term for the time that 2 people spend together getting to know each other but since the word seems to be freaking her out, stop using it.
Author Blimps321 Posted June 6, 2018 Author Posted June 6, 2018 The thing is, when we were going out, I always said let's "hang out" and she was down. I'm not sure how to phrase it now so she absolutely knows it's just a friendly hang out. "Hey bud, let's kick it this weekend". Idk lol
snowboy91 Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 I'm going to go against what others have said here. My first reaction is that what you guys have is nothing more than a platonic friendship. She's rejected you but continues to spend time with you as a friend, and asks about your dating life as friends would do. But it could also be possible (though unlikely) that she's very nervous about getting into a relationship because she hasn't been in one before, and is worried what her parents will think. It's tricky either way - but do you think you'll be able to accept just being friends with her?
fredflint Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 (edited) Yeah, you're probably going too fast for her. The common PUA wisdom online to kiss early is fine IF she wants a kiss early lol. Otherwise you just almost made yourself another annoying harasser in her life. Sometimes I think the PUA advice online is aimed at college age people and might work ok only on women who haven't yet developed the maturity to have clarity on their boundaries. So men can get away with it more at that age. It's ridiculous, telling the guy things like "Make her say no", ie escalate as far as you can get away with. And other such damaging nonsense marketed to people. That's no way to get to know someone in a mature way. No, the trick is to know when she wants to escalate, and for that you have to listen to her and pay careful attention to the signs. And it means (I think) that you should ignore a lot of the advice online to be the initiator of any escalation. Don't touch her except in normal friendly ways in safe places, and definitely don't kiss her until you're pretty darn sure she wants that. If she touches you, or holds your hand, or puts her arm in yours, then you can take that as a pretty clear sign you can do the same to her sometimes. If she's sitting next to you and you're close and she's looking lovingly into your eyes, and its a romantic setting, you can take that as a pretty clear sign you can kiss her... etc... On balance in my experience its much smoother to simply take things slow and enjoy her company and let things develop naturally rather than try to push physical interaction at your pace. You also have the whole cultural aspect to figure out. I agree with other posters here who've said get to know her family. She's going to be deeply conflicted about you unless and until you're in their good graces and fairly well known and understood by them, so getting significantly physical is probably not going to work at all until then, unless she's a total rebel. Edited June 7, 2018 by fredflint
Gaeta Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 The thing is, when we were going out, I always said let's "hang out" and she was down. I'm not sure how to phrase it now so she absolutely knows it's just a friendly hang out. "Hey bud, let's kick it this weekend". Idk lol She's 25 years old she should not be afraid of the word *date* even if she is conservative and a virgin. She has the mind and the brain of an adult woman. If she is afraid of a kiss it's because she doesn't view you as a boyfriend-prospect. Women all have a little princess inside of them waiting for their prince charming and she is not different then the rest of us. When that prince charming comes along she'll want to be kissed. I beleive still you should be straight forward and tell her you'd like to *date* her. If that scares her off then let her be someone else's scared cat.
act00 Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 Religion has a strong pull. Even if someone strays, what they were raised in and believe in creeps up. She has maintained devout religion in her life despite her being raised in a more modern and American society, and her parents and family are also very important. Her beliefs run deep. I have heard this time and time again with people who are highly devout in a particularly rigid faith...they marry the "worthy male" or "worthy female" even if they would rather marry or be with someone who is not a believer or not as strict or devout. They may marry that person who is not of their faith, but later on down the road, particularly when children enter the picture, they suddenly revert back to their roots, and if their spouse is not in line with it, it causes a tremendous amount of conflict. Marrying outside of the faith or "family way" or culture could result in a total loss of the family who shuns them...they are alone in the world, with just you. They may not be willing to go off the grid for that reason alone. I'm going to say what I said before; don't get mixed up with someone who is devout in their faith and whose lifestyle, including family, is tightly wound up in the tenets of the faith and living by the rules and standards set forth unless you are willing to adhere to this religion just as devoutly. You have to be willing to be that man who exists and eats and breathes the faith. There will be serious conflict if you're not interested. It will cause trouble when you want to skip temple. You don't care about dietary restrictions. You don't want your kids raised in it or not as strictly...conflict abounds...it will cause serious issues, and don't think for a second her family, her religious leaders, her friends, and fellow parishioners won't rally around her and encourage her to leave you for a more worthy man if the marriage runs into problems, especially if your lack of faith is the main cause. I promise you, love does not always conquer all in these situations. Your only thought right now is you want to be with her. You are not considering the long-term consequences of whether or not you can devote yourself and your free time to this faith or if your relationship can withstand a mixed marriage. I have a feeling that during your absence, when she was on her two-week vacation with the family, they really worked on her and her faith and the "requirement" to marry a "worthy male" who meets her family's approval...and she's torn. That's why she did an about-face on dating you. She was sequestered and separated and put back knee-deep into the culture and belief system...what's right, what's wrong. She may like you, OP, but you don't fit the ticker-tape checklist. She's starting to warm up again, now that there is a degree of separation, but this sounds to me like just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to conflict that could arise by the mere fact you are not nearly as devout and you certainly aren't on the spreadsheet. 1
alphamale Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 Religion has a strong pull. Even if someone strays, what they were raised in and believe in creeps up. that's because religion is unilaterally forced upon very young children whose brains are sponges. This is how religion perpetuates itself generation after generation. 1
Author Blimps321 Posted June 7, 2018 Author Posted June 7, 2018 This Friday I’m thinking of asking her to hang out and catch a quick movie with me on the weekend. If she isn’t down then I’m just going to move on. What do you guys think?
fredflint Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) This Friday I’m thinking of asking her to hang out and catch a quick movie with me on the weekend. If she isn’t down then I’m just going to move on. What do you guys think? Movies are great for learning how quiet someone can be lol My point is... movies are fun but there's not a lot of conversation usually to get to know each other (unless of course you spend time together before or after). Edited June 7, 2018 by fredflint
bathtub-row Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 I think she already gave you the recipe -- she wants a guy she can be friends with first. It seems pretty simple to me. 1
Author Blimps321 Posted June 7, 2018 Author Posted June 7, 2018 Yeah it will be a friendly movie hangout, not going to pull any moves.
ExpatInItaly Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 Movies are great for learning how quiet someone can be lol My point is... movies are fun but there's not a lot of conversation usually to get to know each other (unless of course you spend time together before or after). This. If you really want to see a movie, precede or follow it with lunch or dinner. See what happens. Be careful here, as she could also be too timid to hurt you by turning down your friendly hangouts. She might be going along with this simply because she's already told you she doesn't want to date, and so now she figures you're okay with just being friends. Only time will tell.
smackie9 Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 Hey everyone, thanks for the responses. For clarification: her parents would be very content with me. The point of the arranged marriage is so she will end up with someone with a similar background/ethnicity/caste. I am of that same background, so her parents would like me, and I have a decent salary. My problem here is trying to date her again after her initially rejecting me. Set up an appointment with her parents and get yourself on that husband list. Maybe that bold confident step might be what she is waiting for. It's your last chance, you should take it.
coolheadal Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) {snip} After this lunch hangout, I really feel like she's into me again. I think the time apart helped. I'm really not sure how to play this though. Should I just be friends with her for a while? Should I ask her to hangout again outside of work? Maybe just stick to lunch hangouts at work? I really like this girl, but I don't want to scare her off again. My friend she's just your friend from work nothing else. She has to go by what the family has laid out for her arranged marriage. You and her will never be more than friends so that's it. Treat her as a buddy but not as your girl friend she's not! You just have to understand culture rules. Do not ask her to hangout, she told you no for a reason. She's just a buddy as your friend only. You can't like her otherwise and she's not really into you even if she could date you. Edited June 7, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Author Blimps321 Posted June 9, 2018 Author Posted June 9, 2018 I asked her to hang out this weekend, no reply to my text yet and it’s been 24 hours. Thinking of just moving on, but I really want to send her this hail mary text Incase she’s unsure: “I’m just going to be straight forward. I enjoy spending time with you and think you’re cute. I get that your dating life is all over the place, but I’d be okay with keeping it simple and taking it slow. If not, then I think we should just maintain a professional relationship.” What do you guys think?
ExpatInItaly Posted June 9, 2018 Posted June 9, 2018 I asked her to hang out this weekend, no reply to my text yet and it’s been 24 hours. Thinking of just moving on, but I really want to send her this hail mary text Incase she’s unsure: “I’m just going to be straight forward. I enjoy spending time with you and think you’re cute. I get that your dating life is all over the place, but I’d be okay with keeping it simple and taking it slow. If not, then I think we should just maintain a professional relationship.” What do you guys think? She's not unsure. She just doesn't know how to tell you - again - that she isn't interested. The ball is in her court to respond. No more texting from you. 1
Recommended Posts