fredflint Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 Australia is the same as the UK. Multi dating is nasty and considered to be cheating. If I'm seeing someone and we sleep together, we are considered an item - no conversation required. It's not about how "we'd like it to be", rather it's the way it is in our culture. Does that mean we are never cheated on or let down? Of course not. But if we find out the guy or girl is seeing others while dating us, they will find themselves without another date from us. It's just the way it is. I'm just saying unless you have the talk, you can't just assume the other person believes its not ok to see other people. You might stand a better chance of being right (getting lucky to have a person that matches your values) in the UK or Aus, but still you will sometimes come across people who will exclaim, "we never said we were exclusive" when you catch them. And to some degree I think they will have a point. Why do they owe you exclusivity if you didn't talk about it? Just because of social norms? Because you expect people to conform to social norms? There are lots of people who simply don't conform to social norms, and what obligation do they really have to do so? I really believe if you go into a relationship and get hurt by not having the talk, that's on you, not them.
basil67 Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 I'm just saying unless you have the talk, you can't just assume the other person believes its not ok to see other people. You might stand a better chance of being right (getting lucky to have a person that matches your values) in the UK or Aus, but still you will sometimes come across people who will exclaim, "we never said we were exclusive" when you catch them. And to some degree I think they will have a point. Why do they owe you exclusivity if you didn't talk about it? Just because of social norms? Because you expect people to conform to social norms? There are lots of people who simply don't conform to social norms, and what obligation do they really have to do so? I really believe if you go into a relationship and get hurt by not having the talk, that's on you, not them. Fred, if they know local custom and choose to ignore it, they don't have a leg to stand on if they get dumped because of it. And the dumpee won't be getting any sympathy from friends either. Instead, the friends will give an eyeroll and tell them they had it coming. As far as me being hurt....as the dumper, the power dynamic is in my favour. Conforming to local culture is a really important part of fitting in and being accepted. As they saying goes "When in Rome, act like the Romans". If someone wants to do things differently to what is normal in their culture, that's their prerogative, but it won't work out well for them.
preraph Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 The worst of them will just tell you what you want to hear if you have "the talk" up front, but some of them will be honest, so it's worth trying.
snowboy91 Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 Australia is the same as the UK. Multi dating is nasty and considered to be cheating. If I'm seeing someone and we sleep together, we are considered an item - no conversation required. It's not about how "we'd like it to be", rather it's the way it is in our culture. Does that mean we are never cheated on or let down? Of course not. But if we find out the guy or girl is seeing others while dating us, they will find themselves without another date from us. It's just the way it is. I'm not sure whether it's necessarily a country thing as it is an individual thing. The dating culture I observe (also Australian - younger generation though) is more like what is claimed in this thread to be more US style - but I feel like both schools of thought exist here. It's not talked about, but you can make a reasonably good bet that the person you just met is probably looking elsewhere as well. This is exactly why the exclusivity talk happens early on - it really just serves to clarify the expectations on both sides. Yes, if I just started dating someone and I found they were dating others, I'd be upset, but I can't call it cheating if we haven't agreed to become exclusive. 1
snowboy91 Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 If you have followed my posts, you will know i’m In love with my best friend and I’m yet to tell him (planning on it, before anybody says I should say something) I’m a traditionalist, I have self respect. I prefer how the dating game was back in former generations. No games, no ‘people are disposable’ attitudes, no social media to see if the grass is greener on the other side, etc. I’m not a serial dater, I can’t go on multiple dates at a time as I personally am not that way inclined. If I like someone, I’m loyal to them even before I’m in a relationship with them. Keeping ‘options open’ I find disrespectful to a degree. Safe to say I’m cynical about love in this day and age. How do you stay positive in a world that seems so far gone? To answer the original question more directly, I think you'll be surprised just how many people out there have a long term relationship/marriage to be the ultimate end goal. I know it doesn't seem like it from what you see in pop culture, OLD and in your social circle, but there are plenty of threads here that seem to show that people are looking for that more traditional dating model. I feel that there are two main factors at play which muddy the waters a bit - firstly, we know now that a large number (50% or thereabouts?) of marriages end in divorce, and many more are miserable but stick together for the sake of the vows, children, etc. So people are a lot more picky about potential partners in the hope that they are more likely to find their "perfect" match. Secondly, people still want sex, and with widely available contraception they can get it without needing to be married and deal with children. Put the two together and people end up rejecting potential partners a lot earlier, or there is a mismatch in expectations (one wants a relationship when the other just wants sex).
Els Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 It might be a common expectation but no-one has to adhere to that against their will. And if anytime a person doesn't live up to their dates' expectations then they should just walk away and be "ok no big deal, next". The thing about moving more quickly though is that society is more progressive and openly liberal these days. Which I think is generally a good thing. I think people understand that if it's such a good match you can't keep your hands off each other from the get go, then that is a more natural way to go than each having your mental checklist of "partner qualities" still to complete at the 3rd date interview. How tiresome that kind of dating is. Dating should be about connection, sex, excitement, passion. If its too clinical and cerebral you're doing it wrong. To some degree, it should be primitive, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. You seem to assume that the only two kinds of human relationships are those that involve people having sex from Date 1 with lots of different people simultaneously, and those that involve people wearing lab goggles ticking items down their list while having zero feeling whatsoever for the person they're "interviewing". Obviously, people don't fall neatly into the pigeonholes you assume for them. Some people (of both genders) just LIKE taking time to know someone (exclusively!). They like the mating dance, they enjoy building a connection together without juggling multiple people at a time, they love the experience and the fond memories they have of courtship. And yes, sometimes that sort of connection involves delaying gratification a bit and waiting to have sex. Sometimes it does involve spending a few months getting to know someone without dating other people at the same time (gasp!) before you decide they're not compatible. So what? Lots of people who follow that model end up in long-lasting, happy LTRs after only a few failed relationships. Much better than jumping through 500 people IMO, even if you get through them in less than a day each. 1
basil67 Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 I'm not sure whether it's necessarily a country thing as it is an individual thing. The dating culture I observe (also Australian - younger generation though) is more like what is claimed in this thread to be more US style - but I feel like both schools of thought exist here. It's not talked about, but you can make a reasonably good bet that the person you just met is probably looking elsewhere as well. This is exactly why the exclusivity talk happens early on - it really just serves to clarify the expectations on both sides. Yes, if I just started dating someone and I found they were dating others, I'd be upset, but I can't call it cheating if we haven't agreed to become exclusive. Perhaps the online dating phenomena has changed things here?
Chilli Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) l dunno , here this having the talk thing or 50 other things they say round here, we've never heard of. tHere's no talk it's a given unless we stop seeing each other. l wouldn't even consider a women seeing someone else, or doing 50 dates in a yr or 2, l've seen that right here, heaps, l mean wtf, no thanks, or whatever you call it, not a hope in hell. Another thing l notice is they use sex as if it's buying milk. They come on talking about dates and for some bizarre reason insist on telling they had sex. l just think wtf, what you really wanna tell the whole world. l mean if they must , slept together would be sufficient but nooooo, they have to say it often even describe it, very bizarre, well to here anyway. and l'm no prude believe e l'd freak out most people round here buttt, so what who needs to know. Hate to admit it but l watch that idiot of a show bold and beautiful and they're saying oh yeah the sex was bla bla, l nearly threw up. Seen it on other shows and movies too lately ity's obciously becoming the trend buttttt.' a beautiful sacred thing yet thrown around as if eating a sandwich, l dunno. Edited June 4, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Paragraphs
No_Go Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 Yeah exactly - the only difference is time and the opportunity (relative social acceptance) to spread your wild oats in your teens and twenties, followed by 'THA RING ASAP' culture for females who are dating in their late 20s or older. Which makes biological sense because female fertility window is finite. But it is just a hypocrisy to say before people were not mating for love (+exactly the same set of practicalities) - many people even of my generation met their lifetime love in high school or had wonderful marriages that happened after short weeks or months of dating. The 'drop the panties within 3 dates' rule I believe applies for online dating only because somehow people are considered as disposable goods within these platforms. In my recent experience with dating off-line - it took us 2-2.5 months of consistent dating to jump into bed. There was no need to rush and no timeline to follow so it happened when it did. But I'm sure if we met online - it would have been '3 dates or toss' Eh just to comment on the bolded. Women still do that now, like all the time. The only difference is that they do it in mid-late 30s because they want to have a family and are running out of time. The other difference is that by that time, he doesn't even have to be handsome or well-off, just the bare minimum of tolerable. In olden age, there were no women in that situation. Current culture also says that the expectation is to sleep with a stranger you met online within 3 dates :sick: I love how in the olden days the focus was on actually getting to know a person rather than sex first.
Jasonntot Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 Considering your user-name of GirlinNYC, chances are your perspective is a little warped, given what I've heard about the dating scene for young professionals is like in NYC. In Midwestern cities like the one I live in (not Chicago) most of my friends are the date one at a time type. I'm the only one who doesn't mind multi-dating, and it's only temporary for me. If you really want a different dating scene maybe try a different city if you can?
Imajerk17 Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) If you have followed my posts, you will know i’m In love with my best friend and I’m yet to tell him (planning on it, before anybody says I should say something) I’m a traditionalist, I have self respect. I prefer how the dating game was back in former generations. No games, no ‘people are disposable’ attitudes, no social media to see if the grass is greener on the other side, etc. I’m not a serial dater, I can’t go on multiple dates at a time as I personally am not that way inclined. If I like someone, I’m loyal to them even before I’m in a relationship with them. Keeping ‘options open’ I find disrespectful to a degree. Safe to say I’m cynical about love in this day and age. How do you stay positive in a world that seems so far gone? This is what I am not getting though. If you are in love with your best friend and a "traditionalist" as you defined above, then how would you even go on dates with other guys in the first place. It doesn't sound that you would really be available to anyone (save your best friend) in the first place. People who accept dates when their heart is already with someone else--that is a problem to a lot of people in dating too. (And not so "traditionalist" I may add) Edited June 4, 2018 by Imajerk17 1
Myasylum Posted June 5, 2018 Posted June 5, 2018 Glad to see I'm not alone here! I also have never really dated anyone. Either it works or it don't. Dating multiple people just seems to confusing to me, and OLD takes the romance out of everything. No thanks. Romance... I'm not even sure that's a word anymore?
Lotsgoingon Posted June 5, 2018 Posted June 5, 2018 When I think of dating multiple people, I actually do NOT have in my mind that you are necessarily having sex with these people. I sorta see dating as a way to see who you really want to have sex with ... and a relationship with. Committing to one person when you are not in relationship is like an employee applying for only one job. Now in this case, you're OK because you really want to be with this specific guy. But outside this context, that is not a good strategy. BTW: many of us combine traditional and modern elements in our dating. I'm quite mannerable and hold doors and walk on the street-side of the sidewalk and so on ... I think you're invoking this cultural analysis to justify your fear and insecurity and passivity. Traditional women in the "old days" would sometimes take the initiative ... they would just work to hide that ... sometimes ... not always. There are old couples who talk about the woman deciding she was going to be with this man, etc ... So here's a tip (and I apply this to myself as well) ... drop the cultural commentary and pick up some courage to go for what you want in this life. And be careful: who wants to be with someone who feels the deepest of feelings and still remains silent and passive? Escalate a little ... take his hand ... see if he responds ... If he takes your hand as well ... then enjoy ... If he doesn't take your hand, you stop ...You don't have to dive off the top of the mountain. Just get your feet into the water. 1
mortensorchid Posted June 5, 2018 Posted June 5, 2018 You may be a rarity or may have odd opinions compared to others, but stand by what you believe is true.
Lotsgoingon Posted June 5, 2018 Posted June 5, 2018 And big BTW: A traditional woman ... seeing that a guy is not expressing an interest or taking the initiative ... oh ... those women absolutely moved on to another date. Part of the traditional woman's strategy was to accept a date from a new man (make it know she was free) when the man she was first interested in ... doesn't take any action. All kinds of guys "got serious" because the woman was moving towards dating someone else. And in that "old-fashioned" traditional strategy, the woman makes TOTALLY CLEAR that she is interested in the man. By smiling, by the way she dresses, by making herself available, by the way she listens ... by standing in his space occasionally. Traditional women only seem passive because they don't go directly for "the ask" ... (though there are many exceptions) ... but traditional women absolutely made "the ask" easier for the man when they were interested in the man and the man was taking no action. Don't confuse traditional style with passivity ... Those women took a lot of initiative ... and they plotted out their initiative in detail with their girlfriends and mothers and sisters ... Just go pay attention to stories of older folks ... the stories of the woman knowing they were gonna date way before the man. What peeped me to this is that i do social dancing ... and a lot of women--when they want to dance--will walk across the floor and stand right next to me ... that's their way of showing interest in me asking them to dance ... But there are a ton of women who will just come directly up to me and say "do you wanna dance?" I appreciate both approaches ... and both approaches involve action and initiative. 1
kendahke Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 Hi, It seems like it's a culture thing. Here in the UK dating multiple people at the same time is generally considered tacky and cheating.. I was reading somewhere yesterday that this attitude is changing in the UK
kendahke Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 How do you stay positive in a world that seems so far gone? Expectations HAVE to remain checked and strapped down tight. You have to let go of machining an outcome with another autonomous adult who may not be what you're looking for nor you them. People do have a right to their preferences and one finds that out dating. If I'm dating someone, I'm ascertaining if they have the temperament and focus to be with me before I decide to bind my time and energy to them. If they don't do it for me, I'm out of there because I do not owe them devotion off the bat. That is earned over time. In the old days, lots of women didn't have a right to their preferences and were forced into marriages to men they didn't love in order to have a roof over their heads because it was socially frowned upon for her to be self sufficient and independent of a husband. Women couldn't even get credit in their own names until the 1970's. I never want to go back to a time where I was looked at as a commodity to be traded by marriage to another family. It seems to me that your definition of "traditional" means that the guy has to be with you, despite not having reciprocal feelings about you, because you want a relationship. That is the complaint about incels. 1
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