choyhtya Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 I'm a 22yo male who's posted on here before, and I've been around the block when it comes to dating. I've dated and had relations with a lot of people, and I've talked to several people about there dating lives as well. I think that it's obvious to most people that dating in 2018 isn't even close to what it was in my grandparents day. Granted it wasn't necessarily a perfect ideal scenario in those days, but overall I'd say it was a good dating environment. The one word I would use to define dating in 2018 is toxic. I would go as far to say that if your looking for anything resembling a loving and trusting relationship, that your only setting yourself up for failure, and personal suffering. On rare occasions, you can find a fulfilling relationship, but sadly, I'd say that that type of thing is going to be difficult to find. It saddens me quite a bit to, almost all of the people I talked to, and just skimming through this forum, tells me that most people are having really negative experiences when dating and go through some very real heartbreak. One of my former coworkers told me about one of his experiences while he was going through it that I think sum things up kind of well. My coworker, I'll call him Hans, had just started seeing a girl that ill call Katie. I worked with Hans every Saturday, and the first Saturday he told me about how he met a really cool girl who seemed promising, and really stuck out from the others he was dating. I thought that if was cool and wished him well on it. Second Saturday, he was seeing Katie after work and was really pumped for it. He told me more about how she seemed different, and that they got along well together, and told each other about there mental disorders (anxiety or depression, or OCD don't remember they both had one) and were gonna help each other with them. Third saturday he's basically telling me about how great things are going. Hans told me about how he told Katie that he had stopped talking to other girls and deleted his dating apps. Katie seemed less than thrilled but Hans didn't worry to much about it. I believe he sidelined anyone else he was talking to after the second Saturday. After he told me about how things were apparently going extremely well I told him that if things work out he might renew my faith in dating once again. I thought to myself that things would either plateau, but they'd stay together and be happy, or that one of them would withdraw. Fourth Saturday, Hans is all doon and gloom. Apparently katie texted him that they were pretty much done sometime in the middle of the week. I sympathized with him quite a bit, and felt the same way he had before in the past, and I thought it was really sad that it ended up ending the way that it did. A lot of people including me have gone through something similar. I think that things really get toxic on online dating where girls and guys hardly respect each other. There's countless examples that I've seen of girls treating guys badly, vice versa, or people trying to manipulate one another, it's sad. Generally I'm not very pessimistic anymore, I believe that everything from third world poverty, to almost any given issue in the U.S is fixable, but that's a different topic. But dating on the other hand, I'm a lot more pessimistic, I find myself not looking for anything more than fwb anymore. Having a fulfilling relationship certainly is appealing to me, but more than likely I'll end up in the same boat that Hans was in, so is it really worth the energy. I know it won't stay like this forever, it is ultimately fixable, if it was good before and bad now, there's no reason that it can't good again, but it certainly won't happen overnight.
Prue Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 Aren’t you too young to be thinking this way? You’re 22! There are 52 year olds out there with much more faith than you with divorces behind them. You’re seriously setting yourself up for failure if this is how you’ll live your life. A fwb? You’re part of the dating problem then. Stop looking at dating this way and meet better more suitable women (leave tinder behind!) 2
LoverOfDance Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 @Prue - LOOL, before I read your reply I actually said to myself as I was reading the OP's post: "You're part of the problem", lol. OP, many people are weak - instead of trying to make the world better, they simply join others and contribute to the problems. Everyone is looking for a way to make things easier for themselves as opposed to BETTER. If you're looking for a fwb when deep in your heart you actually want something more fulfilling, just know that you're perpetuating and contributing to the madness in today's dating world. 1
PRW Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 I think that it's obvious to most people that dating in 2018 isn't even close to what it was in my grandparents day. Granted it wasn't necessarily a perfect ideal scenario in those days, but overall I'd say it was a good dating environment. The one word I would use to define dating in 2018 is toxic. I commend you on your clear understanding of the state of the situation. But you missed the "cause and effect" here. I'll explain below where Hans totally blew it and showed himself to be the crux of today's problems. Yes, I think guys are the bulk of today's problems,...most of the issues women have would evaporate if men got their act together and started acting like men. along well together, and told each other about there mental disorders (anxiety or depression, or OCD don't remember they both had one) and were gonna help each other with them. I'll put my own translational spin on what was said, and it will be pretty close to what the woman would have subconsciously "heard" even if she didn't recognize it right at the moment. Strike one: (based on the implications of anxiety or depression, or OCD) On the second or third date the guy says, "I'm screwed up in the head, I'm going to be a handful to get along with in the long haul. I may even try to commit suicide somewhere down the road, and bankrupt us with medical bills. Then I'll freak out all over you if you don't leave the thermostat in the house set on an even number". Strike two: On the same date he then says, "Well since we are both messed up, we can fuel each others weaknesses and really raise the roof! It'll be great!" Third saturday he's basically telling me about how great things are going. Hans told me about how he told Katie that he had stopped talking to other girls and deleted his dating apps. Katie seemed less than thrilled but Hans didn't worry to much about it. I believe he sidelined anyone else he was talking to after the second Saturday. Strike three, and he's outta there! On just the third week of dating the guy demonstrates his impulsiveness and lack of emotional control and situational awareness by cutting contact with other women, deleting dating apps to let her know he is going to obsessively zero in like a laser on Katie without having any idea if she was ready for that burden yet. Then shows he was clueless even after that by the fact that he "didn't worry much about it". Now do you see what I mean here? Do you see what you missed originally? This is not about the evils of dating in 2018. This is a perfect example of how men today are still living in grammar school when it comes to women. They have no sense of awareness, no self-control, no leadership skills, are completely driven by emotion and insecurity, ...and, ...and, ...well, ...where do I stop? I could go on for a couple more paragraphs. Now this poor woman, whatever mental issues she thought she had,...is probably worse now and had the crap scared out of her. No wonder women are neurotic today! Who wouldn't be? It seems like 97% of men are like this today. Now I could probably continue with a whole set of instructions for men to follow on their dates for the first few months to get them past this kind of nonsense, but I do that about 10 time a day in these forums and my fingers are just too tired. 1
snowboy91 Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 The one word I would use to define dating in 2018 is toxic. I would go as far to say that if your looking for anything resembling a loving and trusting relationship, that your only setting yourself up for failure, and personal suffering. On rare occasions, you can find a fulfilling relationship, but sadly, I'd say that that type of thing is going to be difficult to find. It saddens me quite a bit to, almost all of the people I talked to, and just skimming through this forum, tells me that most people are having really negative experiences when dating and go through some very real heartbreak. Despite the greater prevalence of today's "hookup" culture, there are still so many people like yourself that are still looking for a loving and fulfilling long term relationship. However there is so much pressure on potential partners to be a "perfect match", and as such people often forget that everyone is human and therefore has flaws. What can make things worse is the social expectations and games people feel they need to play in the initial stages of dating, and when someone's true colors show they find they're not compatible. That all being said, no-one should be settling for someone who isn't the right partner for them. So people will go through a lot of relationships (and pain) to find the right one. It just takes one person to be the right one... and these are the stories we don't hear so much of.
SevenCity Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) I agree with both the OP and PRW. First, the men have turned into quivering pansies by buying into this culture of ours where women are superior (as evident by every tv program and news story). It reflects in dating where women (on here especially) think a guy is “bothering” a girl by asking her out. That you have to confirm she is unattached before doing so. But even if you remain a man, as I do, dating still sucks. Since my last LTR I’ve done exclusively OLD. It always follows the same pattern assuming we are both interested: 1) we have sex and it’s pretty good/great and she seems like a nice person (or it’s terrible and I end right there), 2) continue to date for a few weeks/months, 3) her cray cray comes out and I lose interest, 4) it ends either due to the sex not worth dealing with the cray or my complete lack of interest shows and she ends it If I were to draw a flow chart it would have no start or end points; a closed loop. When I say this to a woman they say “You’re picking the wrong women!” Here’s a news flash - women are doing the picking. As a man you throw yourself out there and see what you catch. It’s like fishing - you can’t expect you’ll catch every one in the sea. I’m more than double the OPs age and have to agree. It could be that OLD is the problem, but it’s all I have to work with due to my schedule and the fact that all my friends are married/have kids. Edited March 15, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Author choyhtya Posted March 15, 2018 Author Posted March 15, 2018 I commend you on your clear understanding of the state of the situation. But you missed the "cause and effect" here. I'll explain below where Hans totally blew it and showed himself to be the crux of today's problems. Yes, I think guys are the bulk of today's problems,...most of the issues women have would evaporate if men got their act together and started acting like men. I'll put my own translational spin on what was said, and it will be pretty close to what the woman would have subconsciously "heard" even if she didn't recognize it right at the moment. Strike one: (based on the implications of anxiety or depression, or OCD) On the second or third date the guy says, "I'm screwed up in the head, I'm going to be a handful to get along with in the long haul. I may even try to commit suicide somewhere down the road, and bankrupt us with medical bills. Then I'll freak out all over you if you don't leave the thermostat in the house set on an even number". Strike two: On the same date he then says, "Well since we are both messed up, we can fuel each others weaknesses and really raise the roof! It'll be great!" Strike three, and he's outta there! On just the third week of dating the guy demonstrates his impulsiveness and lack of emotional control and situational awareness by cutting contact with other women, deleting dating apps to let her know he is going to obsessively zero in like a laser on Katie without having any idea if she was ready for that burden yet. Then shows he was clueless even after that by the fact that he "didn't worry much about it". Now do you see what I mean here? Do you see what you missed originally? This is not about the evils of dating in 2018. This is a perfect example of how men today are still living in grammar school when it comes to women. They have no sense of awareness, no self-control, no leadership skills, are completely driven by emotion and insecurity, ...and, ...and, ...well, ...where do I stop? I could go on for a couple more paragraphs. Now this poor woman, whatever mental issues she thought she had,...is probably worse now and had the crap scared out of her. No wonder women are neurotic today! Who wouldn't be? It seems like 97% of men are like this today. Now I could probably continue with a whole set of instructions for men to follow on their dates for the first few months to get them past this kind of nonsense, but I do that about 10 time a day in these forums and my fingers are just too tired. Interesting points. The mental health factor would definitely complicate matters. I didn't press hard on that one. I got the vibe that he was just being to needy in some shape or form but didn't know enough to make any conclusions. One thing that I do disagree with is that only men are the only ones at fault. Granted there are some serious shortcomings in some men these today's, but at the same time woman are not immune from things like cheating, jealousy, trust issues, etc. I've dated plenty of girls who felt the need to through my phone, and I've been cheated on, and ghosted a few times as well. There are also woman out there who know that courts generally favor the wife rather than the husband when filing for divorce and will marry men simply to divorce later on and end up with half of there things. Granted these types of wives aren't common but it goes to show that woman aren't above reproach. 2
Author choyhtya Posted March 15, 2018 Author Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) I agree with both the OP and PRW. First, the men have turned into quivering pansies by buying into this culture of ours where women are superior (as evident by every tv program and news story). It reflects in dating where women (on here especially) think a guy is “bothering” a girl by asking her out. That you have to confirm she is unattached before doing so. But even if you remain a man, as I do, dating still sucks. Since my last LTR I’ve done exclusively OLD. It always follows the same pattern assuming we are both interested: 1) we have sex and it’s pretty good/great and she seems like a nice person (or it’s terrible and I end right there), 2) continue to date for a few weeks/months, 3) her cray cray comes out and I lose interest, 4) it ends either due to the sex not worth dealing with the cray or my complete lack of interest shows and she ends it If I were to draw a flow chart it would have no start or end points; a closed loop. When I say this to a woman they say “You’re picking the wrong women!” Here’s a news flash - women are doing the picking. As a man you throw yourself out there and see what you catch. It’s like fishing - you can’t expect you’ll catch every one in the sea. I’m more than double the OPs age and have to agree. It could be that OLD is the problem, but it’s all I have to work with due to my schedule and the fact that all my friends are married/have kids. Wow I couldn't have said it better myself. I have a very similar experience to you, the main difference being that OLD is all I know lol. You're certainly right that we're kind of at the mercy of woman that we interact with on these sites. My first pick for girl I would want to pursue something with never ends up working out, but at least I get some hot ones. I stopped investing in the ones who reply with one word, or are wishy washy about giving there numbers out and meeting up which is a lot of them. I just ended up going for easy game, and usually when I get my hopes up about someone, they're dashed in fairly short order. Edited March 15, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 1
Popsicle Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 I’m sorry that you are going through this. I fear for the future of civilization. The Spartans were once the greatest civilization ever but went extinct due to not reproducing enough. We are headed that way.
Chilli Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 Aren’t you too young to be thinking this way? You’re 22! There are 52 year olds out there with much more faith than you with divorces behind them. You’re seriously setting yourself up for failure if this is how you’ll live your life. A fwb? You’re part of the dating problem then. Stop looking at dating this way and meet better more suitable women (leave tinder behind!) Exactly. And as l say on here all the time , who the hell are you dating anyway and why are you even dating them ? Look for a gf or someone you wanna marry later. Btw no way l was gonna read all that so unless l missed something important , just start being a bit patient and selective .
Zippy2000 Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) Choyhtya is correct! He may be 22 but he`s talking with experience of a 42 year old! Dating is toxic because its the western worlds way of finding someone. look towards the east. Ok, its not perfect but I read there are less divorce rated from arranged marriages than of the west. However that said. We mainly here of the bad negative experiences because people come here to look for help. There are other millions of people who are happy in their own relationships. Online dating is a new way to fond someone but there are people out there just looking for fun or just a bit of sex. its taking time to find the right person for you and that takes time. OLD is like everything else in western society. If you don't like it. You look for something else. Its a disposable society nowadays. in the old days of relationships. You were ONLY limited to who you knew in your own community. I come from a small down and back towards when the internet was more wide spread. I only knew people from my friends, from school or from the next town. I look back to most of my friends from school and they have mostly got together form people with my school. Today you can find anyone from all works of life. its trying to find that person online and you wont know until you meet. When you do meet. people are often initially on their best behaviour. Give it time and we then find out maybe something we don't like about the other person of the excitement or spark isn't there and that why people fade or disappear. If you are on a dating site. Look on the site and you can often see the same people on there year after year. trust me there are some really good looking people on these sites and they struggle to find someone. Why? Too much choice. Online dating is toxic because you will think the next person you meet will be better than the next. Back int eh old days our grandparents worked towards a relationship. Choyhtya may be young but he sounds emotionally intelligent and speaks with some experience. Edited March 15, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Fix formatting
PRW Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) I agree with both the OP and PRW. First, the men have turned into quivering pansies by buying into this culture of ours where women are superior (as evident by every tv program and news story). It reflects in dating where women (on here especially) think a guy is “bothering” a girl by asking her out. That you have to confirm she is unattached before doing so. But even if you remain a man, as I do, dating still sucks. Well said. Er,...well I'm still a bit more positive about it than that. Dating is a minefield, but if your wise, know what to watch for, with a realistic view of the world it is manageable. Since my last LTR I’ve done exclusively OLD. Well I'm old,...but don't know what OLD is. I could think of some fun guesses but they are probably wrong. Only Lesbian Dates? Old Lazy Dudes? Old Limp D..."? I give up. I’m more than double the OPs age and have to agree. Same here. I'm 55 The young punks need to listen to us Edited March 15, 2018 by PRW
Maggie4 Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 I'm old enough to be your grandma. It wasn't all roses back when I was young either. Heartaches have been around for a long time. I wouldn't assume relationships were easy 200 years ago. However I do see some new social changes that affect young people: 1. Online dating, texting, technology creating social isolation. If you have never gotten a date offline, something is wrong. 2. Generations growing up being raised by single mothers. With no male role models, the boys don't know what to do. And the girls didn't feel a Daddy's love. So the girls fear abandonment by males (absent father) and the boys fear criticism by females (matriarch). Of course many people raised by single parents can have healthy relationships. I just think single parenthood probably has a psychological effect that manifests itself when the children grow up and try to deal with the opposite sex. 1
Woggle Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 Let's just say I am glad to be happily married when I see what singles go through with modern dating.
PRW Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 One thing that I do disagree with is that only men are the only ones at fault. Granted there are some serious shortcomings in some men these today's, but at the same time woman are not immune from things like cheating, jealousy, trust issues, etc. True. But I didn't explicitly say all men. Women have problems too, but I feel that a lot of their problems are caused by their experiences with the men and their problems. I do have ideas about what I believe is the source that caused the men's problems and some of the women's problems in the first place, but I don't feel I have the freedom to state those publicly in a forum like this. I'm also too new of a member here to have Private Messaging rights so I can't discuss that when anyone via that either.
PRW Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 I'm old enough to be your grandma. It wasn't all roses back when I was young either. Heartaches have been around for a long time. I wouldn't assume relationships were easy 200 years ago. However I do see some new social changes that affect young people: 1. Online dating, texting, technology creating social isolation. If you have never gotten a date offline, something is wrong. 2. Generations growing up being raised by single mothers. With no male role models, the boys don't know what to do. And the girls didn't feel a Daddy's love. So the girls fear abandonment by males (absent father) and the boys fear criticism by females (matriarch). Of course many people raised by single parents can have healthy relationships. I just think single parenthood probably has a psychological effect that manifests itself when the children grow up and try to deal with the opposite sex. You're dead on the money Maggie! If only we could say what we really think! Dating by horse 200 years ago was pretty tough too. But at least the girl could get out of a date by saying her horse was sick. If dad came out after the boy with his musket at least those weren't that accurate. Those were the days!
Woggle Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 Both men and women have contributed to what dating is today and both will have to look in the mirror if we ever want things to change.
SevenCity Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 Well said. Er,...well I'm still a bit more positive about it than that. Dating is a minefield, but if your wise, know what to watch for, with a realistic view of the world it is manageable. Well I'm old,...but don't know what OLD is. I could think of some fun guesses but they are probably wrong. Only Lesbian Dates? Old Lazy Dudes? Old Limp D..."? I give up. Same here. I'm 55 The young punks need to listen to us OLD = online dating.
SevenCity Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 Wow I couldn't have said it better myself. I have a very similar experience to you, the main difference being that OLD is all I know lol. You're certainly right that we're kind of at the mercy of woman that we interact with on these sites. My first pick for girl I would want to pursue something with never ends up working out, but at least I get some hot ones. I stopped investing in the ones who reply with one word, or are wishy washy about giving there numbers out and meeting up which is a lot of them. I just ended up going for easy game, and usually when I get my hopes up about someone, they're dashed in fairly short order. Same exact experience and methods. This is my first venture online which started after my last gf left. I’ve only got 1.5 years experience doing it (never did it before and was in 2 RLs for the past 17 years) but have learned exactly what you have. I too have gotten excited over a few which ultimately led no where. Most I’m meh on and remain that way until I get bored or another pops up. I feel disgusted with the amount of women I have kissed/had sex with in this time and would really have preferred to meet one and be done. Alas, that no longer appears to be in the cards for me. I look at OLD as a venue for sex and short term relationships, nothing more. Sad thing for you is it doesn’t seem like it will get better as you get older
Happy Lemming Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 Same exact experience and methods. This is my first venture online which started after my last gf left. I’ve only got 1.5 years experience doing it (never did it before and was in 2 RLs for the past 17 years) but have learned exactly what you have. I too have gotten excited over a few which ultimately led no where. Most I’m meh on and remain that way until I get bored or another pops up. I feel disgusted with the amount of women I have kissed/had sex with in this time and would really have preferred to meet one and be done. Alas, that no longer appears to be in the cards for me. I look at OLD as a venue for sex and short term relationships, nothing more. Sad thing for you is it doesn’t seem like it will get better as you get older I'm an older individual and I churned through women for years... I had a few relationships, but mainly it was 2-3 months at the longest. Then I met my present girlfriend who I've been dating for 6 years. This is my longest relationship, ever. I don't do OLD, and I met this person in real life; at an apartment complex pool. Chit-Chatted a bit and asked her out for a drink at a local bar, and we went from there. Keep looking and you'll find the LTR you are looking for, don't give up!! In my opinion, I think you'll do better trying "real life" meetings vs. OLD.
SevenCity Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 I'm an older individual and I churned through women for years... I had a few relationships, but mainly it was 2-3 months at the longest. Then I met my present girlfriend who I've been dating for 6 years. This is my longest relationship, ever. I don't do OLD, and I met this person in real life; at an apartment complex pool. Chit-Chatted a bit and asked her out for a drink at a local bar, and we went from there. Keep looking and you'll find the LTR you are looking for, don't give up!! In my opinion, I think you'll do better trying "real life" meetings vs. OLD. Funny, I've had the exact opposite experience. I've been in relationships my entire life. This is the longest I've ever been single. Though some tended not to last terribly long but there was never a lot of time between the major ones. I really thought the one that brought me here (the last one) was it for me - she was what made the dozens of others worth the wait. Well that didn't work out. I agree I should keep looking but I got tired of it. Now I think "I wonder how long I will be having sex with her before it goes to S?" And I totally agree with IRL. But my work schedule and social circle doesn't lend itself to that.
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