AmberAriesMom Posted August 28, 2005 Posted August 28, 2005 Women! Please stop begging men to love you! If they don’t show the type of love you expect them to, then it should be curtains for them! Call out the hook and have him dragged off your life stage! You should never have to appease or beg them to do right by you in any way. They either have it in them to be a great caring guy or not. You can’t force a good relationship. Once married and committed, sure things will go wrong from time to time. THAT’S the time to try to come to understandings about how to mend things. But if you marry a guy whom you already know is sincere to start with then those things won’t be hard to fix. And the only way to know if he’s sincere is to not try to make a relationship work out by fixing him and the things that bother you about your relationship with him. There are too many good fish in the sea! Throw the small ones back and keep fishing. You deserve to be loved and admired if for no other reason than women generally have more tender feelings than men do when it comes to why they love someone. Men typically love sex and having a woman more than actually caring all that much about the females’ emotions. Not a blanket indictment….but with females we need our emotions cared for and a man who understands that and appreciates us for having those emotions….emotions I might add that would serve him well while we raise and care for his children in a loving way. Thus, a good man should seek out a tender loving woman and strive from the start to nurture that in her by taking the initiative to consider her feelings instead of doing his male thing and waiting for her to complain so he can see how little he has to do to hold onto his free sex. I don’t mean to sound bitter. I’m not! I’m actually married to a great guy like I’ve described above and have been for over 25 years. I just get so ill when I see perfectly good women with so much love to offer a man and a family shortchanging themselves like so many seem to do these days. Men WILL take the easy road if you let them. It’s all about how Mommy raised them to start with. Check out his mom. That will tell you in short order how he’ll treat you for the rest of your life. For example: Was she insensitively demanding? If so, every thing you ‘ask’ him to do will be a ‘demand’. Women PLEASE! YOU rule! Stop taking crap from men just to have one. Men would be nowhere without women. They know this. And we need them too! Find one who understands that it takes two to tango…who knows the dance steps in advance! If your tummy feels ill, walk away! Simple as that. If he comes back asking -why, say he didn’t consider your feelings. If he asks what they were, he’s clueless so don’t answer that question. You can’t raise him right if his mommy didn’t do it already.
Art_Critic Posted August 28, 2005 Posted August 28, 2005 There are a few things you said that make sense.. But they are mute because you sound bitter Men are not as bad as you just portrayed them to be... If your not bitter why do you hate men ? Does this earth shattering advice you give women come from your experience ?
RecordProducer Posted August 28, 2005 Posted August 28, 2005 Actually, Arty, I think you misunderstood her words. She is not bitter, quite the contrary! She says that women complain all the time about everything. It's not fair to anyone. Working on your marriage has become a cliche where women try to change men and men think they are expected to change, but don't know how and don't want to either. A woman should accept her man they way he is (maybe make him pay attention to a few things he might do wrong, just like he has a right to tell her what bothers him) or quit the marriage. Neither gender has to take the crap from the other one. Once we realize that people are the way they are and can't simply change at our desire, our lives will be easier. Now who's going to start accepting the reality first? My BF's grandfather used to say: "Women marry men hoping that they (men) will change and men marry women hoping that they (women) will never change."
Art_Critic Posted August 28, 2005 Posted August 28, 2005 RP , Where in her words does she say the things you just talked about ? This women is negative in at least her writing if not her thinking not positive.. Just read the quotes Originally posted by AmberAriesMom then it should be curtains for them! Call out the hook and have him dragged off your life stage! Throw the small ones back and keep fishing. You deserve to be loved and admired if for no other reason than women generally have more tender feelings than men do when it comes to why they love someone. Men typically love sex and having a woman more than actually caring all that much about the females emotions. I don't mean to sound bitter. Men WILL take the easy road if you let them. It’s all about how Mommy raised them to start with. Was she insensitively demanding? If so, every thing you ask him to do will be a demand Stop taking crap from men just to have one. Men would be nowhere without women. They know this. If your tummy feels ill, walk away! Simple as that. You can't raise him right if his mommy didn't do it already.
hoppy28 Posted August 28, 2005 Posted August 28, 2005 its funny how only MEN are like this. believe it or not amber there are good guys left in this world.
RecordProducer Posted August 28, 2005 Posted August 28, 2005 LOL I guess you're right. Well people see what they want to see. I guess her sentence "don't beg for love" had another meaning in my mind. I think nobody should beg for love; if they want you they will treat you well, if not then move on! When men are cheated on, they are usually crushed. When women are being cheated on, they usually think the man is a complete ass and he owed them fidelity even if they were nagging, frigid bitches that never wanted sex with their husbands. Nobody owes anybody nothing. Except when children are involved. In that case many people act selfishly. If you have kids, you should be responsible for them. I think the basic problem for both genders is that people take each other for granted. His dick is only his and you rather pray to god or try hard to make it only yours. Same with his heart and life. The marriage certificate is not a trade invoice; nobody belongs to anybody so we should try hard to keep our partners.
alphamale Posted August 28, 2005 Posted August 28, 2005 Originally posted by AmberAriesMom Women! Please stop begging men to love you! I've never begged a woman to love me and I don't believe i've ever had a woman beg me to love her. If either party has to "beg" for love then there is something quite wrong... Love must be given freely otherwise it is worthless.
Author AmberAriesMom Posted August 28, 2005 Author Posted August 28, 2005 RecordProduder....thanks for understanding and expressing things better than I. Art critic....why not quote some of my less 'offensive' phrases? Just so you know though, some of that's just my attempt at humor, trying to keep things light! If that doesn't make sense to you then....Hmmm...we are all different in how we see and read/hear things so that's why there's a guy/girl out there for us all, eh? The thing is as I see it, we should stop trying to make others what we want them to be and take them as they are or leave them be. And yes, some women are not sincere too! Some are out there looking for a free ride with a sugar daddy etc....but there's no room here for a novel that includes everything that can be said about relationships. I was only speaking to women in my initial post about not trying to create what you need but find it instead..., but men need to apply the same selective measures in dealing with women. I've seen some very nice gentle men get hurt terribly by user women with cold emotions etc Honesty!...to yourself first! And please read, Art Critic, past where I said I don't want to sound bitter. It says I have a great guy! And I do! I wish everyone had such a great mate! But I see that a lot don't and don't understand why not...and I think that at the base of the problem is trying to fix people your way too early on in a relationship. I think the red flags that wave that make you want to fix them are exactly what they are....red flags.
Art_Critic Posted August 28, 2005 Posted August 28, 2005 Originally posted by AmberAriesMom I think the red flags that wave that make you want to fix them are exactly what they are....red flags. I did read your whole post .. I quoted most of it.. Well at least 80% of it. that leaves 20% I didn't quote. Because you are with someone doesn't mean you can't write or think bitter.. And you are right about the read flags waving. Your post had many red flags waving wildly. Perhaps your real message got lost in all the humorous messages.. I don't know.. I can't see it .. Sorry
NewLee40 Posted August 28, 2005 Posted August 28, 2005 I didn't think you came across as bitter at all. Experienced, but not bitter. Clearly, you have had some bad experiences you've learned from and have managed to maintain your belief in the goodness of men. The key is to separate the good from the bad and not waste your time on lost causes. If you see certain signs - that sick feeling that something is not right, feeling like you have to "earn" their love, respect, or worse...beg for it, then you don't have much to work with from the beginning. Everyone deserves to be with someone who wants to be with them, treat them right, and work equally hard on making the relationship work. Too many of us are willing to settle for less. I've seen this in myself and tons of other posts on this forum. We keep thinking...if only he/she would do/think/feel/want/act..... If only, means that you are wishing for something that's just not there to begin with. Understanding this is important to staying away from the blame game. We find ourselves spending alot of time pining over people who don't want us or appreciate what they have in us. We give all our power away when we think like that. Its not about whether or not that person is "worth it" or not. If they can't or won't give us what we are looking for in a relationship NOW, they won't later either. Better to say, no harm/no foul, just not a match. If anything, that's what I read into your post.
RecordProducer Posted August 28, 2005 Posted August 28, 2005 Originally posted by AmberAriesMom my initial post about not trying to create what you need but find it instead Exactly! And cherish it, not trying to fix it cuz it's not perfect. Because by fixing it, you're ruining everything. I did this mistake with my current BF. But with the previous partners, I just wasn't compatible, there was no ground for those relationships to succeed whatsoever. I thought if I had children with my ex-husband, I was supposed to work on the marriage. BS. Life goes on. People shouldn't fear to end unhappy relationships and seek true love. Actually by working on your dead marriage, you waste precious time that you could use to meet your potential new love. About most problems people should simply have a very short memory and leave it, not work the sh*t out of it.
seachange Posted August 28, 2005 Posted August 28, 2005 Yes, NewLee, that's how I read it too. I don't agree about "men would be nothing without women", nor do I subscribe to the idea that men don't care about women's emotions or will take the easy road if you let them. Some people do, some don't. But I think one underlying point of the post was valid: many many women (myself included) on this forum are in relationships where they know the SO doesn't feel the same, but they hope that if they just hang on it'll get better. That isn't to say you can't grow and learn with a person, or that everyone has the same definition of love, and sometimes it's hard to sort that out. But I do think that that inequality of feeling - hoping someone will come to love you in time, if they say they don't - can be a recipe for endless cycles of drama that can ultimately tear what good there is in a relationship apart. So yeah, the bit about not being able to raise him right if his mommy hasn't already was jarring, until I realized that all she was saying was that you shouldn't try to change someone: he is who he is, and if you aren't happy with that, hanging on to a relationship with that person anyway will just make you both miserable. Anyway, that's what I got out of it.
clandestinidad Posted August 28, 2005 Posted August 28, 2005 I really needed to hear your post today...I've had a bad few days (well, few months really, interspersed with good days), and today is really awful. All I want to do is sleep. I was going to start a new thread, but it goes along with what you wrote....about knowing how you want/should be treated, not getting what you need from your SO, and deciding whether or not leaving the relationship. I have a some things that I need/expect from a guy (especially after being together a year or more): Someone who will patiently listen to me without coming back w/ comments Shows me lots of affection (good hugs, cuddles, not just rubbing my leg for 15 seconds here and there) Is very affectionate when he knows that I'm sad (not arguing, trying to discuss things) Knows how to make up for things he's done (mainly with affection!!!)...rather than not seeing me for a day or more Spends a lot of time with me (about 4-5 days a week....b/c he really WANTS to be around me) Has or is in the process of breaking away from his mother (talks to her once or twice a week; puts ME in that position in his life; etc) Someone who gladly plays with my daughter Doesnt hide things or lie, about stupid things Doesnt have issues with his privacy, and thinking that he 'has to report' to me Has sex with me at least 6 times a week Doesnt cancel or blow off plans with me, while he makes sure to keep them with everyone else there are probably some others, but I cant think of them right now. Anyway....is this too much to ask of someone?? These things make me feel loved and important. And I certainly give back and act completely wonderful when I feel loved. I should add that my b/f does great things for me, but I dont care if someone gets me my coffee or not...thats not how I'm shown love, and he knows that Why is it so hard for people to love me? Do I expect too much? My b/f and I have talked and argued about these things before, and its gotten better for a few days, but then there's nothing again, and then in the next few days things go bad again. Also, when I feel like he hasnt been affectionate or anything, I tell him...I usually voice what's wrong so that he'll do something about it. The result I get is either defensiveness, an argument, or nothing at all....still no affection or anything even though I just said that I needed/wanted it. I'm starting to think that I shouldnt say anything to him, b/c then at least he's not being an a$$ to me...he wouldnt know in the first place. But I know its not healthy to have unmet needs......which is evidenced by the fact that when I feel particularly ignored or uncared for over a length of time, I start looking for it in other people. I've never cheated or anything, but I do think about meeting other people....b/c for the time being, at least THAT person would be giving me attention/affection/etc. I'm sorry this is so long...I think I need help. I feel like I know what to do, but it makes me so sad to break up with someone who I'm positive will be absolutely wonderful one day....but I cant wait 3 years or so to get married to someone who says that they'll be different THEN. (not sure if that makes sense....he says that he'll be different when we're engaged or married, but thats not for 3 years)
RecordProducer Posted August 28, 2005 Posted August 28, 2005 Hi, Kat! I am not sure this is about being wonderful. A person can be perfectly wonderful and not be affectionate towards you because he is not in love with you. You shouldn't demand from him to be more affectionate. If you hold him and he doesn't respond by holding you back then it's either his personality or his feelings for you, but in any case you're not getting what you want. Your complaints don't solve the problem. You deserve to be with someone who will make you feel great and give you what you need. Don't "beg" for his love by asking him to show you more attention. Find a guy who will gladly shower you with hugs and kisses and compliments and will drop everything to be with you.
Woggle Posted August 28, 2005 Posted August 28, 2005 If a woman is worth it I will give this and more to her. I think I have a woman that is worth it right now.
RecordProducer Posted August 28, 2005 Posted August 28, 2005 Woggle, get off our nerves with your "worth it" and "worthless"! We see people as compatible or incompatible, in love or not. Are you saying that Kat is "worthless"?Is that why her guy doesn't show her enough affection? You repeat 2 sentences all the time. Tell me something, when you make a phone call, do you say: "Hello, this is Woggle, who has the pleasure of talking to me?" Jump to the ground, dude! You're not up on the sky, you're just too high on a palm tree.
Woggle Posted August 28, 2005 Posted August 28, 2005 Originally posted by RecordProducer Woggle, get off our nerves with your "worth it" and "worthless"! We see people as compatible or incompatible, in love or not. Are you saying that Kat is "worthless"?Is that why her guy doesn't show her enough affection? You repeat 2 sentences all the time. Tell me something, when you make a phone call, do you say: "Hello, this is Woggle, who has the pleasure of talking to me?" Jump to the ground, dude! You're not up on the sky, you're just too high on a palm tree. I don't know Kat but some women are worth nothing more than a lay. I don't say that when I make a phone call but being with woggle is a reward in and of itself.
animo Posted August 28, 2005 Posted August 28, 2005 So you think women beg for love? I have never, ever, in my whole life heard a woman beg for love. They begged for romance, they begged that their boyfriends be more secure, be more established, be more self reliant, begged for sex when you push the right buttons, but i have never heard a woman beg for love. Neither one i was in a relationship with nor a 'friend'. Now this could be because i'm a very loving guy and somehow never had any friends that weren't getting love OR it could be that it just isn't enough. Now you answer this for yourself. Women don't want love, they want their Mr. Perfect to love them! That's not the same thing! So don't make this out to be something that it's not and make it sound like love is so hard to come by because it really isn't, but sometimes people have to make a few compensations in life to get what they want. If it's so hard to close the curtains on non loving guys, that you have to come here and preach it to 'those' women, then why do you think they just don't do it right away? I think it's because other things are more seductive, more desirable and yes more IMPORTANT than love! Now personally i am a very loving guy. To my friends, to my family, to my partner and anyone who deserves my love and respect. There was some point in my life when i thought that would be 'enough'. How very disappointed i was! I was miserable, confused, crushed and burried under rejections, it wasn't even funny anymore. The plain and simple truth, coming from a guy who has weighed and tried, is that love simply is not enough and infact it rates pretty LOW on the scale of what makes you intresting as a guy! There are simply NO women intrested in me, who i am, my lovingness. What they are intrested in is my defiance, my hard head and the confidence it gives me, what i have achieved and how i feel about that... That's what they are intrested in, that's what hits a nerve when they read it off my face... So i put on my 'make-up' when i go out, i put on my 'attracktive' face, and let me just insure you it has nothing to do with how loving i am in a relationship and how loving i am is NEVER a topic in any of the conversations that lead upto second, third and whatnot dates, ONS, relationships and yes LOVE. Why do i do this? Why does anyone ever do anything? You need something, you want it, it's imprinted in your genes and you are NOT getting it with just what you have to offer, so you change and adapt, you learn and accentuate and what i have learned is that how loving you are as a guy simply plays no role whatsoever untill you scored high grades on all the other more IMPORTANT aspects, only then does love come into play, only then are you expected to be loving because Mr. Right, Mr. Perfect must eventually also be loving after it's firmly established that he is infact Mr. Right and Mr. Perfect. You want to change how 'those' men are? Then make it more important for them to be loving! You want to change how 'those' women linguer in non loving relationships? Then tell them to take a cold shower and use their brain. So i'm sorry to rant on but seriously, if it was as important as you state for men to be loving and tender then they WOULD BE and the reason that they are not is simply because those products are not in high demand on the market. it's one of those things that start to matter further into a relationship but to GET that relationship in the first place you don't really need to be a loving guy... You need to be a whole lot of other things, that's for damn sure, but loving...not really. If what you said would have been coming from the mouths of any of my ex's then i would have no other option than to have a good old hearty laugh about that because being loving wasn't what got em tempted in the first place, and it sure as hell wasn't what spooked em off or got em dumped in the end. So go ahead and spread your advice to women, tell them to leave their non loving Mr. Perfects, but they won't because they are hooked on them because of other stuff that's just a tad more important. Love? give me a break! You really think that it's love that keeps them in these relationships? It's attracktion, plain and simple and they won't trade that in for a loving guy. Not now and not in a million years. What you are really saying is that these women need to dump the non loving guy they are attrackted to and need to go look for another guy who can be both loving and attracktive. Go look for another guy who learned how to seduce women and get sex from them and just PRAY he will love them in the end. Cause, yah you're right, love is important in the end, but it's not as important as sex and it's not as important as attracktion. So with all due respect, women don't beg for love, they beg for love from attracktive, sensual, sexual, confident men who just happen to have something really intresting and intreguing to say every time you meet them. If love was really so important then it would seem reasonable to give loving guys a break and stop screwing them over because they score a bit lowish in the other departments and if you feel like there is just no compromise for those departments then be ready to make some compromises in other departments...like love. The only 'drive' that truely matters and pushes people towards wanting relationships and companions is attracktion which is directly related to sex. This is what matters because if it didn't then you could find love on every corner of every street. So there is really no need to 'save' these women, they are perfectly aware of what they are doing, what they want and what's important. And if you feel they complain about a lack of love then they are really complaining that Mr. Perfect refuses to be Mr. Right and love them along with all the things that make him Mr. Perfect. So my advice to all these women who cannot seem to find love is quite simple. Make your choices about what you want out of life and if you've made them, then don't come complaining afterwards about the choices you made, because you DO have a choice. You don't to sleep with guys you are attrackted too, you don't have to act on desire and you don't have to try to change them and you don't have to complain if they refuse, you just have to pick and follow through in your decisions.
RecordProducer Posted August 28, 2005 Posted August 28, 2005 Originally posted by Woggle being with woggle is a reward in and of itself. I would pay a lot for you... to be kept at a safe distance from me!
RecordProducer Posted August 29, 2005 Posted August 29, 2005 Originally posted by animo So you think women beg for love? I have never, ever, in my whole life heard a woman beg for love. She meant figuratively! When Kat tells her BF that he doesn't show her enough affection, it's like she begs for his love. He doesn't feel the urge to hold her and kiss her and she does and she demands that from him. The reality is even worse; women don't beg but fight and argue and request as if you can win someone's love like that.
animo Posted August 29, 2005 Posted August 29, 2005 that's affection and not love... So it's figurativly...so basically the poster is saying "if your guy doesn't put out in the ways you want him to, dump him". Is that it? That's fine, i have no problem with that. The only thing i have a problem with is people taking their selfish wants and desires and calling it love.. Or a lack thereof. I know selfish is an ugly word, but it's basically what it comes down to. I'm a bit touchy on the topic of love because i have seen and heard tomany people complain about it, when they got heartbroken or dumped. It's love, love hurts, something was 'done' to them, they are victims... While it's really their own superficial, in the end, bad choices that lead them down that road. It's really like going out and buying a sporty roadster cause you love the looks, you love the kick when your accelerating, you love the smooth leather interior...and then you go back to the carparler and complain about the fuel consumption. This car is to expensive to drive, it doesn't put out enough miles to a gallon, when in all honesty you never asked yourself any questions about what the fuel consumption would be, it wasn't one of your points of intrest, it wasn't on your list for the perfect car... If it had been, you could have resisted your urge to pull out your mastercard and bill it, you could have gone with the less powerfull version and made an informed decision...
NewLee40 Posted August 29, 2005 Posted August 29, 2005 Wow...I still think we are missing the point here! Its amazing how everyone's old baggage comes shining through in something like this. Its not about him not "putting out" like you want him too. The entire spirit of the post was, if the guy is treating you badly and you think being loving and giving enough is going to change that, think again. Spend your time on someone who naturally gives you what you need. I've only been around this forum for a few days but I'm already seeing what prompted this post. Quality, sweet, kind, gracious, giving men and women are throwing months and years of their lives away on people who treat them like ****. We aren't talking about the folks that drive you nuts because they hang the toilet paper the wrong way, or otherwise attractive people who look like something that came back from the dead when they wake up in the morning. We are talking about people who treat you poorly, take and give nothing or very little in return. Those people we love for some reason and who manage to throw us enough crumbs to keep us beside their table. Sure, alot of people are really shallow when it comes to relationships. Their expectations are way to high and unrealistic. They will ALWAYS find something to complain about or hone in on as a "reason" for breaking up with someone. They are never happy, and flit from person to person who they first idealize and then start picking them apart bit by bit by bit until they leave. But, I don't think that's to whom this post was addressed. Rather it was addressed to those who are dating people like that.
Cupcake Posted August 29, 2005 Posted August 29, 2005 I don't think it's bitter. It makes a lot of sense. If people spent more time being loved, they wouldn't spend any time trying to make love work. Many times, women/men will stay in a relationship that simply makes them stressed or confused all for the sake of hoping the other person will change. I found myself in situations with men where they started out loving me perfectly. Then they changed to neglecting me or cheating on me. I used to ask questions like, "What did I do wrong?" I was open to the idea that maybe I did something to cause men to mistreat me. Maybe I didn't have sex with them enough. Maybe I wasn't understanding enough. Ect. ect. I tried to work things out by changing myself, and chaning them. None of that worked. The only thing that worked was ending the relationship and searching for someone who didn't need to be changed. The downside is that I don't get as many dates as I used to. But the few dates I've had have been a much better quality than the men I've dated in the past. I'm sure I'll still have problmes and questions about relationships from time to time. But I won't ever settle for stress and confusion caused by a relationship again. I won't waste my life trying to make love work. Sure, it's easier said than done! But it's a way of thinking that many of us could benefit by adopting.
RecordProducer Posted August 29, 2005 Posted August 29, 2005 I think Lee explained things very well. And I don't understand what's so bad in striving to achieve a complete affectionate relationship. If your partner doesn't treat you right, you can either stay in a bad relationship or seek true love. I don't get it how it translates to "if your guy doesn't put out in the ways you want him to, dump him?" Why do you think, Animo, that anyone should put up with somebody's crap or be in a non-affectionate relationship? We choose our partners voluntarily and sometimes we make mistakes. We have a right to correct our mistakes. Sometimes all we need to do is change our behavior or talk to the other party. Sometimes we need to quit the relationship. Break-ups are an important part of life, because they give us the chance to quit the disatisfactory relationships and open new opportunities. If you love someone and they don't love you and you want to find somthing better, why is it "dumping" as you state it and why is it unfair to the "dumpee"?
animo Posted August 29, 2005 Posted August 29, 2005 Wow...I still think we are missing the point here! Its amazing how everyone's old baggage comes shining through in something like this. Its not about him not "putting out" like you want him too. The entire spirit of the post was, if the guy is treating you badly and you think being loving and giving enough is going to change that, think again. And my point is that people make those choices for themselves, because they look for the wrong things in picking their partners. You don't need to tell them to leave the bad relationship, so they can just go on to the next bad one... You need to change their perception so they can start making thoughtfull and educated choices. I mean comon, howlong does it take before you realize that a guy might have a bad or violent temper? The kind of people who tend to get 'stuck' in these kind of relationships usually swing one of two ways, they end up in another bad one after they break up the first one OR they end up with some unrealistic expectations, commitment phobia or some other undesirable mental problem. I never claim that 'dumping' is unfair and it's just a term i use to describe a break-up. There is just no point in dumping one sucker for another sucker, plain and simple. Like i said, obviously these people didn't choose their partners with their heads at all, they love whoever seduces them next. It just seems to me like alot of these women who make those kind of impulsive decisions (and men aswell) are prone to getting stuck in bad or unfulfilling relationships. It's not really 'this' specific partner that they need to dump, it's their whole attitiude that needs changing. Well need is a strong word ofcourse, they can do whatever they want basically i don't really care. The point is there is just no use in telling them to leave bad guys if they are just going to end up with another 'bad' guy again. If you want affectionate guys, then make it a priority in your choice of partner, that's all i'm saying basically. Like i said, you want a car that makes loads of gallons to a mile, then check if it actually does before you buy it. Simple concept no?
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