LostHubby2015 Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 Hi everyone. First and foremost, I filed for divorce from my wife a while back and it's still not finalized and that's stressing in and of itself. But anyway, between posting on here occasionally for a while i was also seeing a councilor. In October my councilor thought i was doing much better so i stopped going by her advice. Shortly thereafter a girl i know, I'll call her Rachel, who i was......kinda friends with who i know from a co-ed softball team and i start sorta of talking. We were at a friends house one night and she was drinking more than me and at one point said i like you. Which instantly i thought that met in a relationship sort of way. So i started to pursue her a little bit. Then it dawned on me she may have just meant "i like you, you're a good guy". so i kinda let up. Shortly there after we started communicating a lot (snapchat). This started in November and continued all the way through xmas we would snap a lot. I asked her out on a date and we went on one shortly after new years. backing up for a second. we spent new years eve together which we did kiss after midnight. not at midnight cuz we were with friends and as far as i knew it was kinda hush hush that we had been talking. so that by itself was awkward. but i did later tell her happy new years and kissed her while slow dancing upstairs. we then began to kiss more and she did tell me that night "i like the games". Being mindful i'm 33 and she is 23. so yes there is a level of immaturity that goes into this which is why i had been tolerant. So back to January, we went out on a date it went well. I dropped her off she said she had a good time and told me i wasn't going to bring her up to her apartment, i said ok as to be respectful. A week later i get a text from her, not a snapchat. She wasn't sure what she wanted and didn't want to drag me through it while she figured it out, but she still wanted to hang out. So we did. and then just before V-Day while i was on vacation i sent her a snapchat of the sunrise and said "good morning, beautiful. I hope you have a good day." i got a snap back that clearly was her being suspicious as to my snap, i replied and then shortly after ghost. I asked her after a few days if i had crossed a line and she said i had. In a last ditch effort i laid it all out there about how i liked her and what not. One thing i included was i probably pushed to hard, i said that maybe it's still in the cards maybe it isn't, but 2nd chances are about doing things the way they should have been done the first time, only without fear. The reply i got back could be viewed as cold or stern. Maybe a little of both. But she straight up said "I am not interested in you romantically. We can hang out in the same friend circle but not separately as I fear you'll always be seeking a romantic relationship with me. I do not want a relationship with you." 1) i broke my own rule of dating as "i tried". in my experience not trying has always worked best. 2) i feel like i may have been "making up" for things i felt i did wrong during my marriage. So i was very supportive of this new girl. I told her to be herself (which i do believe she should do), but i feel like i wasn't being myself entirely as i clearly was trying to sell myself. I wasn't laid back. But i felt like i wasn't as supportive as i could have been during my marriage so i was all for her. I made every effort to be with her. I just wanted to be with her so bad (and still do). I know somewhere along the lines i began to really care for her and to a limited extent convinced myself i was in love with her. Not that i don't care for her cuz i know i do now. And i'm ok with that, but i want it be toned back down the friends level. cuz we WILL see each other again and fairly regularly since we are on the same softball team (when that starts up again in early april). But has anyone else been through anything similar to this? Like screwing up dating and messing up what could have been at the very least a great friendship? I almost feel like maybe i'm emotionally unstable. For full disclosure a good friend, I'll call her Mary, offered me this advice "I think you don't have a lot of self love right now. Therefore, it's easier to really love/like someone else a lot. Therefore, making you feel loved bye getting some love back." Any insight would help because beyond being told i have no chance this actually hurts probably just as bad as the divorce. Which it shouldn't since i've only been talking to this girl, Rachel, for like 4 months. Why am i so upset by this?
HumanMachine Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 She won the game as soon as you started acting beta and clingy. Learn from your mistakes and move on. 2
usa1ah Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 Like she said she likes games. Date someone that is more mature next time. Rachel is not ready for a relationship. 1
BluesPower Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 Well for one thing... She is too young and immature. Second thing is you acted like a puss. Sorry, but beta behavior never attracts women, and you are old enough to know this. You should have taken her to bed right away and if she was not into it you should have ghosted her immediately. And, if you want more than just to get laid, find a woman at least 25 to 30. 21 YO's are just kids and they are not worth investing time in. 2
CaliBabe Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 Hi everyone. 1) i broke my own rule of dating as "i tried". in my experience not trying has always worked best. This. This is so true.
Young mind Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 Alpha this Beta that, can't believe people still hold on to such bollocking, maybe your 'clinging ' was your way of showing your affection for her, if you did that from your heart, don't let anyone take that away, you must had good moments together which you can point out, it's best to have a cool off period, it also helps parties calm down .
HumanMachine Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 Alpha this Beta that, can't believe people still hold on to such bollocking, maybe your 'clinging ' was your way of showing your affection for her, if you did that from your heart, don't let anyone take that away, you must had good moments together which you can point out, it's best to have a cool off period, it also helps parties calm down . The alpha/beta scale is more alive than it ever has been. 80/20 rule and all that. It’s evident that OP’s beta actions pushed the female away. 1
BarbedFenceRider Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 Yup, 23....No go. If it makes you feel any better. She probably said the same thing to 6 other guys. Not to be antipathetic, but to point out she is still in the "playing field" so to say... Just keep on, keeping on. And be yourself. Show no interest or feigned emotions. Just be cool. Oh, and date others in the circle.
Highndry Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 I'm tired of hearing "beta" this, "alpha" that around here as well. It's so overused that it's almost vomit-inducing at this point. Especially when you consider there's a lot of these young guys trying to pretend they're something they're not, attempting to emulate online dating gurus. I had to actually Google 80/20 because I had no idea what it even meant. Supposedly 80% of women are attracted to the top 20% of men? Big whoop. They're shopping out of their league and need to get real, because there's an equal number of unattractive women as there is men. Stay in your lane comes to mind, but I digress. I think what happened here is you didn't escalate when she was possibly amenable to it, so "you snooze, you lose." You may have had some success early on if you would have played your cards right, but I think she had low interest in you to start with so no big loss here. Another mistake was persisting after she clearly gave you the stop sign. She told you she wasn't interested, but you sent her that text and then poured your feelings out. Major blunder. And asking her if you crossed the line was obsequious and makes you look very weak. Women want a self-assured man who would just as soon say "you don't like it, take a hike," which is what you should have done the first moment she told you she wasn't interested.
BluesPower Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 I'm tired of hearing "beta" this, "alpha" that around here as well. It's so overused that it's almost vomit-inducing at this point. Especially when you consider there's a lot of these young guys trying to pretend they're something they're not, trying to emulate online dating gurus. I had to actually Google 80/20 because I had no idea what it even meant. Supposedly 80% of women are attracted to the top 20% of men? Big whoop. They're shopping out of their league and need to get real, because there's an equal number of unattractive women as there is men. Stay in your lane comes to mind, but I digress. I think what happened here is you didn't escalate when she was possibly amenable to it, so "you snooze, you lose." You may have had some success early on if you would have played your cards right, but I think she had low interest in you to start with so no big loss here. Another mistake was persisting after she clearly gave you the stop sign. She told you she wasn't interested, but you sent her that text and then poured your feelings out. Major blunder. And asking her if you crossed the line was obsequious and makes you look very weak. Women want a self-assured man who would just as soon say "you don't like it, take a hike," which is what you should have done the first moment she told you she wasn't interested. Sorry but the behaviors that you are describing are in fact Beta behaviors. The fact is that what ever you want to call it, it is just the way that it is. Highndry (I am guessing male but who knows), I am 53 YO and I can get just about any woman in my league and much younger, which I just don't anymore, and I am really not that good looking any more. Current GF is an example, she is beautiful, and super sexy, and she talked at first about a 90 day rule. And after I picked myself off the floor, LMAO, I just told her that was not going to happen, so lets get busy. I guess that was the 2 day rule. Point is that these guys that pussy foot around are... well pussies. And in the end they get what they get, like this guy in the post. These are honestly just the facts of life...
springy Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 I think what happened here is you didn't escalate when she was possibly amenable to it, so "you snooze, you lose." You may have had some success early on if you would have played your cards right, but I think she had low interest in you to start with so no big loss here. Another mistake was persisting after she clearly gave you the stop sign. She told you she wasn't interested, but you sent her that text and then poured your feelings out. Major blunder. And asking her if you crossed the line was obsequious and makes you look very weak. Women want a self-assured man who would just as soon say "you don't like it, take a hike," which is what you should have done the first moment she told you she wasn't interested. You totally just described the two terms you hate so much...to a "T".
jackofmany Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 Leaving aside the whole alpha / beta thing, which I also find tiresome, I think it's worth looking at your final question. Why does this hurt so much? That, I think, has more to do with the divorce than you might think. Even if you were getting past that prior to meeting this girl, it seems to me she represented the possibility of quick romantic attachment after what must have been a grueling struggle (I'm guessing). She represented a short cut through the marathon. I think maybe you are extra dejected because you are having to confront the fact that you have a longer grind in front of you than you realized. Having that taken away is bringing all the other stuff up along with it. I think you are feeling the pain of both this romantic rebuff as well as a return of the pain of the divorce and the fear of the future than can sometimes evoke. And yes, it is generally true that women prefer confident men who act boldly, and that being clingy and needy is about the fastest way to lose a woman, but still . . . alpha / beta? That stuff is for kids. I remember the first time I saw someone who had a book that said, "How to be an Alpha Male" or something like that. All I could think was an alpha male wouldn't need a book. Sometimes I suppose it's a useful distinction, but my God, has it become tedious, and if you think women aren't hip to a lot of that pick up baloney, you're crazy.
Highndry Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 Sorry but the behaviors that you are describing are in fact Beta behaviors. The fact is that what ever you want to call it, it is just the way that it is. Highndry (I am guessing male but who knows), I am 53 YO and I can get just about any woman in my league and much younger, which I just don't anymore, and I am really not that good looking any more. Current GF is an example, she is beautiful, and super sexy, and she talked at first about a 90 day rule. And after I picked myself off the floor, LMAO, I just told her that was not going to happen, so lets get busy. I guess that was the 2 day rule. Point is that these guys that pussy foot around are... well pussies. And in the end they get what they get, like this guy in the post. These are honestly just the facts of life... Eh, I'm not real big on name-calling. I just think that there are a lot of labels that are thrown around pointlessly rather than just discussing the behaviors themselves. Calling people names or trying to pigeonhole them into some sort of label isn't helpful. The guy made some mistakes and is here trying to understand. Kudos to him and hopefully he gets it right next time. You totally just described the two terms you hate so much...to a "T". Maybe so, but see above. 1
BluesPower Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 Eh, I'm not real big on name-calling. I just think that there are a lot of labels that are thrown around pointlessly rather than just discussing the behaviors themselves. Calling people names or trying to pigeonhole them into some sort of label isn't helpful. The guy made some mistakes and is here trying to understand. Kudos to him and hopefully he gets it right next time. I called no particular person anything... What I am giving you are the absolute facts of life. I don't care what label you give it or don't give it. This is the way that it works. The sooner that the emasculated males in the population accept it, the better off they will be...
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