28 year old guy - should I completely ignore dating for about 10 years???

January 26, 2018

You’re soooo wrong. And how would you know, how many have you spoken to?

Why am I wrong?

January 26, 2018

Shallow advice, but just trying to fit the theme.

you want fitness chicks, so how about this.

1. Stay natty!!!

2. Keep clean bulking (I know it's not easy but GOMAD light has helped me. I do 3 cups a day, not a gallon and its done well)

3. LIFT LIFT LIFT

4. lift more

5. Lose the tight button up with the top undone with dress pants plz. If you want to show your physique go for a low vneck tee that's tight or something.

January 26, 2018

Shallow advice, but just trying to fit the theme. You want fitness chicks

5. Lose the tight button up with the top undone with dress pants plz. If you want to show your physique go for a low vneck tee that's tight or something.

nah. I like to keep it classy. I look enough like a meathead already

I loled hard at your advice though

January 26, 2018

I can't find clothes that fit me perfectly unless I tailor make it

my arms are very big for my frame, my waist is tiny for my frame. Nobody makes a shirt for a XL upper body with a size S waist. It doesn't exist

I get my clothes tailored. You can afford it too. Not an excuse.

so why is it when I actually approach cute 28 year olds, they still want nothing to do with me?

Because "approaching" people is weird and perhaps scary/threatening unless done with subtly within the right context. And no offense, but you don't seem like a very "subtle" person. When people "approach" me, I immediately get defensive. I don't know what they want or what their intentions are, if they're trying to rob me, scam me, etc. Now imagine, in this society we live in where women are constantly looking over their shoulder worrying about their safety, a strange man "approaches" them and expects them to just be totally at ease. Unlikely. Another reason to online date. It makes allows women to feel physically safe.

I'm super chill in real life/friendly/easy going.

I doubt it. The profile you're creating of yourself through your posts is rather the opposite. I'm suspecting you have a very skewed view of yourself. Super chill, friendly, easy going people aren't so hung up on perfection and so dramatically distraught that women don't like them. You sound demanding, intense, myopic, and desperate. Sorry.

I don't try to have sex with them ASAP - I don't even care about getting laid at all. I'm not high pressure - I'm all about making people feel happy and confident

Simply not trying to have sex with someone on first meeting doesn't make you agreeable. You still give off an intense, desperate vibe. You're very dressed up. You approach people. You sound like you want people to know how successful and nice you are -- and I'm not saying you're not -- but people are going to feel like you have an agenda, and that reeks of desperation, and it's unattractive. There's giant a difference between a chill, successful, and nice person who dresses normally and comfortably, who lets others come to him, doesn't lean on his money and has genuine concern for others, and a supposedly chill, successful, nice person who's so chill/concerned/low pressure that he's obsessed with perfection and approaches random women, and successful to the point where he needs to dress up and let everyone know it. Based on your posts, you sound like the kind of person I'd make an effort to avoid, to be honest.

Tons of attractive women at my gym but they all want true chads (6'4 260 lbs male model face and 100% white looking instead of Spanish or Italian looking like me)

Didn't realize you were a mind reader as well. Very impressive resume so far.

character is hugely important to me

I come from old school middle eastern values. We do anything for the benefit of friends and family
we are ferociously loyal
our word is never broken
family is everything

very similar to Italian culture. I actually really want an Italian/Middle eastern/Spanish girl because of this reason. They have similar values to our people

You don't sound chill or low pressure at all. You sound like you're trying to prove to people how accomplished, ambitious, loyal, moral, nice, low pressure, etc you are. It's not "chill," it's desperately overbearing. It's the opposite of what you think it is. If you, as a stranger, "approach" a random woman with this attitude, I'm not all surprised they have the reactions they say they do. Your whole vibe seems demanding and exacting.

yes but the odds are overwhelming against me
A cute 28 year old girl with a great figure is the absolute top of the social hierarchy. If I am in say top 5% of men appearance wise, she wants top 0.00000000000001%. Does that make sense??

No, it doesn't make sense. Surprising that you also called yourself highly intelligent and you can't wrap your head around this basic concept or that of market value. We all want someone perfect. The overwhelming majority of us can't get someone perfect. Yet the human race, somehow has continued on for generations. That cute 28 year knows she can't marry Zac Efron, so she'll marry someone closer to her equivalent in terms of looks and socioeconomic status.

Listen, I'm in your spot. I'm a similar age, similar height/weight, similar income. I have no trouble meeting people in person or with online dating. I'm not a movie star or male model. What I don't do is go around assuring people that I'm successful, that I'm smart, that I'm fiercely loyal, that I strive for perfection, etc. If I'm any of those things, those women will figure it out on their own eventually. I wear appropriate, normal, clothes and I don't approach people and I don't go around with an agenda. When people talk I listen and consider their opinions and let myself and my own thoughts be challenged and reconsidered.

Why not try and meet women online or circumstantially rather than "approaching" them? Then share some thoughts and opinions you have, ask about theirs, etc, see if you mesh well, and then proceed, rather than desperately trying to prove your worth? That's what an actually chill person would do. I'm not sure you understand that yet.

January 26, 2018

nvm I forgot you already said that

Haha, this thread is so ginormous I think I've missed a lot.

January 26, 2018

Why am I wrong?

Not all physically attractive women want “juicehead gorillas” as you put it. You need to get this man. There’s so much more to attraction than just looks. You’re not bad looking and I’m sure you’ll pass that test for most women. Start speaking to these girls. It doesn’t have to be flirty, just talk and see how it goes.

January 26, 2018

Because "approaching" people is weird and perhaps scary/threatening unless done with subtly within the right context. And no offense, but you don't seem like a very "subtle" person. When people "approach" me, I immediately get defensive. I don't know what they want or what their intentions are, if they're trying to rob me, scam me, etc. Now imagine, in this society we live in where women are constantly looking over their shoulder worrying about their safety, a strange man "approaches" them and expects them to just be totally at ease. Unlikely. Another reason to online date. It makes allows women to feel physically safe.

We're using approach in terms of just initiating a conversation with a woman in a social situation

I promise you I'm just as concerned with making sure the scenario is comfortable/non threatening/natural/etc... The last thing I want to do is to make anybody feel awkward or uncomfortable

but I mostly only talk to women at bars and social events. Initiating a conversation in most places feels very awkward

I'm on board with what you're saying there

Simply not trying to have sex with someone on first meeting doesn't make you agreeable. You still give off an intense, desperate vibe. You're very dressed up. You approach people. You sound like you want people to know how successful and nice you are -- and I'm not saying you're not -- but people are going to feel like you have an agenda, and that reeks of desperation, and it's unattractive. There's giant a difference between a chill, successful, and nice person who dresses normally and comfortably, who lets others come to him, doesn't lean on his money and has genuine concern for others, and a supposedly chill, successful, nice person who's so chill/concerned/low pressure that he's obsessed with perfection and approaches random women, and successful to the point where he needs to dress up and let everyone know it. Based on your posts, you sound like the kind of person I'd make an effort to avoid, to be honest.

I don't agree with this part at all

When I'm talking to people in real life, the goal is to have a very pleasant interaction with them. It's not to prove anything. The behavior you're talking about is of someone who is extremely socially retarded, you realize I make friends everywhere I go right??

People discover your good traits as they get to know you, you're not supposed to prove anything. I feel like I'm going over 3rd grade social skills

Listen, I'm in your spot. I'm a similar age, similar height/weight, similar income. I have no trouble meeting people in person or with online dating. I'm not a movie star or male model. What I don't do is go around assuring people that I'm successful, that I'm smart, that I'm fiercely loyal, that I strive for perfection, etc. If I'm any of those things, those women will figure it out on their own eventually. I wear appropriate, normal, clothes and I don't approach people and I don't go around with an agenda.

online dating has an impossible difficulty curve if you want an attractive and fit woman in her 20s with no kids. It's a great tool if you are okay with dating single moms and women in their late 30s and 40s

I would love meet women via my natural daily routine but I never do - despite being very social and having an excellent lifestyle.

When people talk I listen and consider their opinions and let myself and my own thoughts be challenged and reconsidered.

Then share some thoughts and opinions you have, ask about theirs, etc, see if you mesh well, and then proceed.

dude that's 3rd grade level common sense social skills. You're not telling me anything I don't know

I simply just don't get any opportunities with anybody I could see myself with

BTW those pics were of me going to upscale places at night. I don't dress like that when I'm going to the grocery store. I wear a sports t shirt and sweat pants

January 26, 2018

Not all physically attractive women want “juicehead gorillas” as you put it. You need to get this man. There’s so much more to attraction than just looks. You’re not bad looking and I’m sure you’ll pass that test for most women. Start speaking to these girls. It doesn’t have to be flirty, just talk and see how it goes.

just FYI I'm 100% confident in my abilities on

actual dates. I can make women feel very comfortable around me when they spend some time with me 1 on 1 and get to know me

I feel like a great athlete who simply can't get 5 minutes on the field to showcase his abilities

January 26, 2018

You make a lot of assumptions about complete strangers, women who you never even asked out. Be 100% honest here: HOW MANY women have you asked out in your life, and how many turned you down?

PS- The fact that you're in excellent physical shape means you don't need to flaunt that at all. Some loose clothing, not baggy, which hides your muscles a bit will go much further than accentuating them. Women aren't stupid, they know an attractive shape when they see it.

I don't allow it to get to that

when they show that my presence is extremely irritating to them, I walk away ASAP

I'm not trying to make anyone feel awkward or uncomfortable

I notice that you didn't answer my question, which is probably the most important question on this thread, so I will shout it from the rooftops. Be honest: HOW MANY WOMEN have you actually asked out that have turned you down? How many women have you asked out in your entire life?

loose clothing doesn't look good though

fitted button down shirts and jeans are what's trendy and fashionable nowadays. I have some XL shirts and when I wear it, looks so sloppy and unappealing

slightly too tight >>>>> sloppy and baggy

Bullshizzz. I know how difficult it is to find clothing that fits, because I have broad shoulders myself, but the reality is that there are clothes that will fit you better than that tight crap.

I've noticed a trend on this thread. You have a comeback for every single thing that people say.

January 26, 2018

I notice that you didn't answer my question, which is probably the most important question on this thread, so I will shout it from the rooftops. Be honest: HOW MANY WOMEN have you actually asked out that have turned you down? How many women have you asked out in your entire life?

Bullshizzz. I know how difficult it is to find clothing that fits, because I have broad shoulders myself, but the reality is that there are clothes that will fit you better than that tight crap.

I've noticed a trend on this thread. You have a comeback for every single thing that people say.

if I go over to a girl and start talking and she wants nothing to do with me via her body language and energy, that's a rejection

how many girls have I asked for that expressly turned me down? not many

I hate rejection and I try to avoid it if I can by paying very close attention to their energy. Women will tell you if they like you or not via their body language

January 26, 2018

just FYI I'm 100% confident in my abilities on
actual dates. I can make women feel very comfortable around me when they spend some time with me 1 on 1 and get to know me

I’m sure you will be great on these dates but to get a date you need to talk to these women first. Build a rapport with them. Show them your good qualities. Get to know the kind of person they are and at the end of it, if you still like them then ask them out. Right now you’re already defeated by thinking these women are too good for you. They’re not.

January 26, 2018

You don't look approachable.

January 26, 2018

We're using approach in terms of just initiating a conversation with a woman in a social situation

That can still be threatening and uncomfortable from a stranger. If you're that concerned with it being uncomfortable or threatening, just don't do it. Let the women come to you or wait for a circumstantial engagement. Initiating a conversation with a woman, as harmless as it may seem, does in fact broadcast your agenda a lot more than you think it does.

I promise you I'm just as concerned with making sure the scenario is comfortable/non threatening/natural/etc... The last thing I want to do is to make anybody feel awkward or uncomfortable

Is it all possible that there's a disparity between how you perceive yourself and how others perceive you?

When I'm talking to people in real life, the goal is to have a very pleasant interaction with them. It's not to prove anything.

How effective would you say you are at achieving this goal?

The behavior you're talking about is of someone who is extremely socially retarded, you realize I make friends everywhere I go right??

You have the social wherewithal to supposedly make friends wherever you go, yet you also have little concept of supply/demand and assume that because they spurn you, all attractive 28 year old women are holding out for a movie star and that online dating is a multi-billion dollar fraud. No offense, but perhaps your judgment isn't as great as you think it is.

People discover your good traits as they get to know you, you're not supposed to prove anything. I feel like I'm going over 3rd grade social skills

Considering you've never figured out how to date women by age 25, despite having as many positive qualities as you claim, maybe it's time to consider that perhaps the women aren't to blame and maybe part of the problem is a lack of social awareness on your part.

online dating has an impossible difficulty curve if you want an attractive and fit woman in her 20s with no kids. It's a great tool if you are okay with dating single moms and women in their late 30s and 40s

Cool story. I've done it on and off for a few years. I have high standards. I've dated doctors, lawyers, Ivy League grads, Broadway actresses, a TV actress, a model, and a lot more. That doesn't quite fit your narrative though, does it?

I would love meet women via my natural daily routine but I never do - despite being very social and having an excellent lifestyle.

So it must be womens' fault, right?

dude that's 3rd grade level common sense social skills. You're not telling me anything I don't know

Yet for some unexplainable reason, here you are with this problem.

I simply just don't get any opportunities with anybody I could see myself with

Except for all those girls you approached who you said were repulsed by you. So you do get opportunities, you just don't know how to convert them, or maybe you're picking the wrong battles to begin with or going about them in an entirely disagreeable way from an outside perspective. So you can understand why I think your problem is a potential lack of social awareness.

BTW those pics were of me going to upscale places at night. I don't dress like that when I'm going to the grocery store. I wear a sports t shirt and sweat pants

Fair enough, but it still seems a bit much to me and the fact that you literally took pictures of yourself isn't helping your case.

January 26, 2018

just FYI I'm 100% confident in my abilities on
actual dates.

So if you're 100% confident in your abilities on these dates, why haven't you had any success with them yet? You sound delusional.

I can make women feel very comfortable around me when they spend some time with me 1 on 1 and get to know me

But they don't want to continue to date you at the end of the date when they realize you're not, in fact, Zac Efron?

I feel like a great athlete who simply can't get 5 minutes on the field to showcase his abilities

On these dates you've been on, you had 90+ minutes.

January 26, 2018

l think l'm feeling what the thing is here. But how to explain or or change it , or should we even change things about ourselves,l dunno.

l never have , don't believe in it myself, well apart from we all have a few bad habits or things that could use a polish up haha,

But in general if she didn't like me as me then l'm not interested.

So it's up to you.

But your obviously a , l dunno , what's the term, well you sound pretty classy and very together in life and ways , achievements , attitudes, l dunno , like an achiever, really got it together, you like everything just right and your very capable of building yourself and your life just the way you like things.

That's all a great gift to have if that's your style don't get me wrong.

But , the first thing l'm thinking is it's probably all a bit too polished up for women your age. It could also be a bit intimating, and l know that's the last thing you'd wanna do but sometimes things just have an effect even if we don't intend it too.

l think ya need a bit of scruffing up.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Chilli

January 26, 2018

Strong sense of deja vu on this thread. I recall another poster recently having the exact same problem.

At least you know you're not the only one with this predicament.

January 26, 2018

You don't look approachable.

so why the *** do I get approached by people I don't want to date all the time?? (gays and older women)

so frustrating

January 26, 2018

OK, members, I hope that was entertaining....

1. For those who thought they read this before, one intrepid member who is a shining example of following our rules reported the duplicate account of the banned member to us along with the thread link:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/transitioning/search/644931-i-can-t-get-out-my-defeatist-victim-mentality-dating

2. To retain posting privileges, follow that member's shining example and report suspicions of banned members, trolls and suspect content to moderation privately. Sure, it's less exciting than stirring up off-topic discussion but it also keeps your membership valid here. Announcement with over 100,000 views?

LoveShack.org Community Forums - Announcements in Forum : Dating

Thank you to all the members who notified moderation privately. I was the first report long ago but had other things to do and requested input from other moderators before dropping the hammer. I guess that was a mistake. In any event thanks for your responses and we'll all move on.

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28 year old guy - should I completely ignore dating for about 10 years???

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