Author Fair Posted January 22, 2018 Author Posted January 22, 2018 I suppose I believe in reality, that no man worth his salt is going to run away from something like this. It's not like I have serious mental problems or something, I'm just having a normal reaction to the struggles I've had to endure. Perhaps judging ourselves unworthy is the real problem. If you think you are you'll find the other person thinking the same, but that if you believe in yourself, he will also and be more open and receptive to you.
Author Fair Posted January 22, 2018 Author Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) If a woman told me about her anxiety issues, I would (non-exclusively) keep the door open with her. If she didn't reveal her issues and just kept feeding me various lines, I would stop communicating with her. However, under no circumstances would I agree to be exclusive with a woman I had not yet met. Well, I already know you're pro multi-dating, Shining One, but in this instance we've already agreed to focus on each other exclusively until we either see it through to the end.. or the beginning. I may or may not be rejected when I tell him. I know I'll have no choice but to tell him in any event and will just have to roll the dice. I don't believe I'm being selfish, as someone else commented. I'll be giving him a choice... not "asking him to stay and wait." I believe I'm well worth the wait! If he doesn't agree, he doesn't agree, that's all. I guess I'll find out. Certainly if he doesn't think I'm worth waiting another month for... he's probably not a keeper. At least, not my keeper. Edited January 22, 2018 by Fair
Miss Spider Posted January 22, 2018 Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) I don't know if it's the stigma itself you're afraid of or if you just generally can't handle dating at the moment. Or if you're afraid you will "mess up" or be judged when you meet, but a lot of people deal with anxiety. Just about everyone has in their life to a greater or lesser extent. And after losing loved ones it's completely understandable. I think if you tell him there is a high likelihood he will be completely understanding and wait for you. However, if you keep making various excuses to stall he may end up thinking you're a catfish or stringing him along or something. Edited January 22, 2018 by Cookiesandough 1
CptInsano Posted January 22, 2018 Posted January 22, 2018 Well, I don't expect him to take me on as a responsibility. Trust me, it is one. That's not certainly a bad thing, but if you are with somebody who is very vulnerable there is a responsibility you take on. Is that really asking a lot? I'm not asking him to date me yet... just asking for a little patience and hoping he thinks I'm worth enough to wait for... Yes, because you are asking for something that he can't be sure of will ever arrive. Other women may have used this approach to work an angle, so you are asking him to really trust you. You are asking for something upfront that normally develops over time. 2
rebeccamuller Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 I experienced the same thing with my current boyfriend. We met online and talked for awhile over the phone. He constantly asked me to meet up and to take me out and i constantly made up excuses because i wasn’t ready. Luckily he was very patient with me and didn’t get angry. Finally after making excuses for 2 months, i hung out with him. Now we’re happily dating. when i was open with him about my fears and anxiety he was very comforting and reassuring. He also opened up about his own anxiety which really helped as well. Personally i don’t think you owe anyone an explanation if you’re not ready to give one. You don’t have to explain your anxiety. But at the same time, if you really like this guy and are wanting something with him in the future it is better that you’re honest with him. If it scares him off, he’s not the one for you. It’s apart of your life and the right one won’t run from it. 3
todreaminblue Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 Now I'm really torn and don't know what to do... afraid to tell him... afraid not to tell him... aaargghh. even though you are anxious about telling ...do it anyway.....its better to be honest than make up a fabrication for one it makes you feel more yourself and understood which will help with the anxiety...its worse if you try and hide it....out in the open and being dealt with is the way to lessen anxiety.....and that is what you need to feel comfortable around the person you are potentially to be with or see on a regular basis ...so be honest... so you can be yourself.....it works....im not saying you wont feel anxiety because you will.. .its about management.....if he is not the type to accept you have anxiety he isnt for you....and its better you find that out sooner rather than later...it may be scary lots of things in life get scary ...this is one....and it will pass....you have to believe that...all things come to pass......its a mantra i have often said when dealing with horrid crap.....i say it over and over.....that and please god help me stay with me....on the outside i look calm...but inside....ducks feet paddlin....:0)...gatherin' all my ducks....... the scary feeling will go once its acknowledged for what it is and you are more comfortable around the person who is triggering anxiety in you....being comfortable with someone ...means honesty... and you know what else really helps anxiety.....laughing....is a huge anxiety killer....probably why i laugh when i am in actual pain....laughter works like a sedative.maybe its that oxygen thing.........i wish you peace....deb..... 3
newyorker11356 Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 I experienced the same thing with my current boyfriend. We met online and talked for awhile over the phone. He constantly asked me to meet up and to take me out and i constantly made up excuses because i wasn’t ready. Luckily he was very patient with me and didn’t get angry. Finally after making excuses for 2 months, i hung out with him. Now we’re happily dating. when i was open with him about my fears and anxiety he was very comforting and reassuring. He also opened up about his own anxiety which really helped as well. Personally i don’t think you owe anyone an explanation if you’re not ready to give one. You don’t have to explain your anxiety. But at the same time, if you really like this guy and are wanting something with him in the future it is better that you’re honest with him. If it scares him off, he’s not the one for you. It’s apart of your life and the right one won’t run from it. Congrats! To be fair, though, I don't think you could blame a guy (or girl) for not sticking around in this situation (especially if they've never had even met you in person before).
LivingWaterPlease Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 and you know what else really helps anxiety.....laughing....is a huge anxiety killer....probably why i laugh when i am in actual pain....laughter works like a sedative.maybe its that oxygen thing.........i wish you peace....deb..... That's very interesting, dreaminblue! Have never heard that before but it makes sense. Maybe that's why sometimes people laugh at unexpected and seemingly inappropriate times! Thanks for sharing that tidbit! 1
todreaminblue Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 That's very interesting, dreaminblue! Have never heard that before but it makes sense. Maybe that's why sometimes people laugh at unexpected and seemingly inappropriate times! Thanks for sharing that tidbit! everyone has been really angry at my son lately he is extremely depressed and mentally ill..possibly suicidal....drug use and a split from his family contributing factors.......he laughs for no reason.....and like you suggested.... at inappropriate times..strangely i dont get angry when he laughs i feel ....sad...confused and anxious........he actually has massive anxiety i believe and when he laughs its expelling that anxiety...i feel that from him..... he has a lot of anxiety...people are complex......deb 1
LivingWaterPlease Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 everyone has been really angry at my son lately he is extremely depressed and mentally ill..possibly suicidal....drug use and a split from his family contributing factors.......he laughs for no reason.....and like you suggested.... at inappropriate times..strangely i dont get angry when he laughs i feel ....sad...confused and anxious........he actually has massive anxiety i believe and when he laughs its expelling that anxiety...i feel that from him..... he has a lot of anxiety...people are complex......deb I'm so sorry to read you and your son are going through this, deb. Because if a child is going through something, mom is going through it, too! And sometimes dad is, but since I'm a mom that's how I see it. Have you read about grounding? I'm thinking you are interested in natural remedies and grounding is one of them. Haven't tried it yet but as soon as it warms up I'd like to! Sorry, don't mean to t/j! 1
todreaminblue Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 I'm so sorry to read you and your son are going through this, deb. Because if a child is going through something, mom is going through it, too! And sometimes dad is, but since I'm a mom that's how I see it. Have you read about grounding? I'm thinking you are interested in natural remedies and grounding is one of them. Haven't tried it yet but as soon as it warms up I'd like to! Sorry, don't mean to t/j! laughter isnt always just to "show" your happiness and i do believe it helps anxiety big time.....also goes to theory then that not all people who laugh and are comics ...actually feel happiness..a lot of folks will fake it till they make it...it isnt actually faking...laughter is increasing mental health by firing feel good neurones at the target illness the receptors int he brain that give up too easily....... its when you cant laugh or smile....things...get hard to handle......just a theory......thanks for the grounding idea...i know it to be true.....maybe op can look it up too.....deb 1
heavenonearth Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 I know how you feel because i have GAD and it was difficult for me to tell my boyfriend about it. I think i told him on our first date. He’s been very accommodating ever since. 3
drakon12 Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 Just wondering... If someone wanted to meet/take you on a date, and you were suffering from anxiety/panic disorder but you really liked the person and didn't want to throw them off... would you be honest about your anxiety as a reason why you're not ready to meet them? I've got someone now who wants to take me out this weekend!! and I've been struggling with anxiety for a while now... I've known this person over the phone for about a month, and have a relative amount of ease with this person, but I can't drive very far by myself, nor can I do a lot of things yet, including going back to work though I'm getting better all the time, and consider myself 'on the mend'. I don't want to lie and keep giving him made up 'excuses' why I can't meet. Because I don't know how much longer I'll be working through my anxiety, and to keep feeding him another tall tale every weekend because I'm still not quite ready, would no doubt make me look like I'm a flake if I didn't tell him the truth. It's all caused from grief and prolonged stress from when I lost my dad and sister back to back. I told him about how I lost them but not how it's been affecting me, trying to appear fine, hoping I will be fine, soon, and ready to meet him. But by this weekend, when he wants to see me now, I know for sure I won't be ready and have no idea when that time will come, though I'm getting closer all the time to feeling better. Would you tell a potential love interest about something like this? I don't want to scare him away by having him know I'm unwell right now... or is this irrational thinking? Is it better to be honest in this situation or not? How would you react to someone you wanted to date if they suddenly told you about how they're struggling with anxiety? It seems to me everyone is touchy about people who are having some kind of mental/emotional struggle in the dating world. Well, if I was in his shoes, I'd think that you're just not that into me and you didn't want to meet. Because, I heard every possible excuse. "I don't have time for a relationship, I'm in a bad place in my life now, I don't have time for anyone" etcetera. They all come down to same thing, "I don't like you". If you want to be open, tell him how you feel. You don't need to tell him that you really like him. Just tell him that you're struggling with anxiety, you need some space, you'd love to meet with him but you just can't bring yourself to go out with him, whatever you need to tell. Make it face to face or over the phone if possible, don't text. I can tell that there are two possible outcomes. First, he might think that you're insincere and like every other girl and her sister, you're lying to him because you're not attracted, then he'd move on I guess. Other possibility, he might choose to believe you and would offer you his help and support, be it spending time with him and opening up to him or giving you the space you need. If he does the latter, be sure about showing him your appreciation 1
act00 Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 How did you meet? Did you meet online? It's beyond me why people get on a dating site but they "don't have time" and "aren't ready." I have to admit, Fair, that after a month of no meet...the reality is I would have given up two weeks ago. I'm a girl. I will also admit that if I met someone with such profound anxiety, or any major issue, whether it be kids, the ex, work, I can't say I'd stick around for that either. I guess a lot depends on how you (general) manage the rest of your life, but if every weekend is met with some drama and no time together...not up for it. I have walked away from these, and regardless of if they are truthful or not on their issues, it still seems like excuses and a blowoff, and again I wonder why they bothered? I have stuck it out...until it looks like there will never be change. You shouldn't be pursuing a romantic relationship until yourself is fixed. I understand part of your thought process may be to have that friendship and cuddling and support system, love...but maybe you need to seek support groups and platonic friendships, not a romance. Is this man going to become your sole source of support? That is a lot for a new relationship. Will he feel suffocated by your needs due to your anxiety issues? It just isn't a healthy place to start a relationship. I do think you need to be upfront, however. Let him know so that he can make a choice. If you keep tossing out excuses, he's more likely to drop the rope because you're clearly "stringing him along." You are well-aware this is where his mind is going to go if it hasn't already. After you tell him, he could still walk, and I think you are aware of this too, but knowing your shortcomings and your drive to improve and keep getting better, I think the odds are better than if you keep tossing out excuses. Good luck! For real. I'm sorry about such loss you have experienced and I hope you see the end of the tunnel soon and can back to some normal.
Miss Spider Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) Are you seeing a therapist for your anxiety issues? I have SA too and I expect I'll always have it. But people have SA to different degrees at different times. It's not always debilitating. I hide my SA so well that I often get told by people that I seem like an extrovert/super outgoing and they never would have guessed I have it. But I'm nervous. I think what you should do is try CBT or something if you already haven't. Social anxiety (in dating) is not something that really goes away without facing the fear. It pops up at the most inopportune times and sabotages things. I also think maybe you could let this guy go for awhile until you feel at a stable enough place to meet. Not even saying that you can't still talk to him, but kind of put it on the backburner. I told a guy last October I had anxiety and that I would contact him again later when I was ready to date if he was still available. He was and we would have probably dated, but I realized I still had anxiety. That's the problem with it. You keep thinking "I will...in a month. I'll find the courage then" And then a month comes and you still can't. It's one of those examples when "There's no better time than now" is really applicable. In my experience they're always still around. They've most likely dated, but I have popped back into lives a year later and they were still around. You need to first take care of you and then worry about dating second. But I would tell him about the anxiety anyway. I have heard of people talking many months before meeting. I wouldn't, but there are some who would. Let him know what it really is and make the decision if he wants to wait. You both deserve that. Good luck!!! Edited January 23, 2018 by Cookiesandough
MaleIntuition Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 I think you are asking for much here. And, honestly, being a bit selfish. You want him to have an exclusive, text only, relationship with a girl whom he have never met? Furthermore, there are no guarantees that a) you will be ready in a month, or b) that you will have good chemistry in real life. But to answer your question: Yes I would be willing to date someone with anxiety if I liked her, but then again how can I know that unless I’ve met her a few times? Would it be impossible for you to meet the guy for a very “low effort” kind of date? Like a coffee or a walk in a park? 1
jade_98765 Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 First off, I'm really sorry for what you sent through and the resulting condition that you're now dealing with. In terms of telling him, of course. It's not fair for him to be red excuses as he will take it as non interest and it will turn him off. Worst comes to worst, if you tell him, he may decide he's not interested, and if thats the case, he's not worth it. Trust me, if someone really likes you, it doesn't matter if you have anxiety or not. My current boyfriend, both inexperienced with love and someone with anxiety, told me about it on our second date. I barely flinched, I thought nothing of it, instead I moved the conversation towards developing coping mechanisms together. The relief he had was immense and it brought us closer. I'm very cogniscent of his anxiety and possible triggers, and am there for him when he needs to be brought down. That being said, he's worked on his anxiety a lot. It was also brought on by a trauma, long before we met. He went on anxiety medications in high school , which helped him. Then after a year into university, he wanted to get off of meds so he started speaking to a psychologist and slowly weaned himself off. He now seeks opportunities to push himself and make himself uncomfortable and participate in numerous social events. When I met him, I really liked him and I was the one who made the first move and initiated a lot in the beginning. It didn't matter if he had anxiety, I didn't mind that his hands shook the entirety of our first date, I really liked him. When you really like someone, those things become small and you're willing to work on them together, so long as the other person is willing to work on themselves. His hands shook because he was petrified of messing up and anxious as all hell, (plus it was his first ever date) but he was there. To him, the chance that it could work out was worth it. Not to say that his anxiety hasn't held him back. But I'm open and honest with him and he's open and honest with me. His commitment to lessening his anxiety translates into his high level of motivation, dedication and his ambition. His anxiety itself makes him incredibly organized and considerate. His anxiety is cute and calm at times, and at others it's an obstacle. My reasoning for telling you all of this is twofold. Firstly, you need to work on yourself. And I have no doubt that you have worked on yourself a lot and felt huge improvements. But my boyfriend worked for years. And it takes years. It's incredibly uncomfortable work and I know that it's difficult, But it's worth it. Secondly, you need to find someone that will feel this way about you and your anxiety/panic disorder. Do not settle for less. Don't feel bad if this doesn't work out, whether or not you do end up telling him or not. The person you date should be willing to put in effort. But again, so should you. I do wish you the best and I do hope you heal from your loss and learn to live alongside your anxiety. 1
Author Fair Posted January 23, 2018 Author Posted January 23, 2018 I'm not of the opinion I have social anxiety. A panic disorder/anxiety is a symptom of grief that most people don't seem to be aware of... I don't see myself as some hopeless case that won't get over it for years, as someone else suggested. I was just in a dark place I'm slowly coming out of... as everyone does who experiences grief... if someone wants to discard someone over that, the only word that comes to mind is 'callous'. I never thought of not having told him about my anxiety yet as 'lying'. I just feel it's a very personal matter and one that you should eventually tell, yes, but not something you are 'obligated' to tell before you're ready. It was never my intention to 'lie.' There are a few on here who are a bit harsh about the way I handled this but then also said, that when they went through a similar situation it all turned out okay. So... I'm tending to believe it will be okay. As long as we meet not too much further down the road.
kassy Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 Sorry to hear about your loss, and how it is playing out for you on the grieving front. I don't understand why you are doing online dating. You aren't in a position to actually date someone... In my opinion you need to rebuild your support network, with friends not lovers. Then when you are at a place where you can go out with people after a week of chatting without it being an emotional upheaval, that's the point you should date. I love my boyfriend and if this level of grief occured I would do anything I could to be there for him and his kids. BUT when I met him he was a happy healthy man who could enjoy dating and life with me (and still is except in this hypothetical situation). Would I have stuck around 'exclusively' texting, no. There are lots of people in the world, I would feel annoyed you didn't mention this earlier, and I would probably wish you well but I'm not able to take on that kind of responsibility for someone I've never met (especially if they can't be open with me about it). You seem to think any good person would take this on. I would suggest any mentally healthy person would pass on you until you are in a much better emotional place. You can't go out, and you are expecting this new person to give you a lot with not much in return. If they are willing to take that on when you haven't even met I would be concerned about their mental health. As for this particular guy, tell him, tell him what dating would look like at the point you're ready to meet him. But get rid of keeping him trapped in exclusivity with you. If he's still single when you are ready to date then that's great but don't keep him stuck for an indefinite period of time. You can't work or barely go out, this doesn't sound like a month long process to me. Find some friends to help you out that will be much healthier in the long run then your future partner doesn't have the burden of being your entire support network from day 1 of dating! And I write this knowing you will disregard it as harsh, but you don't seem to realise what you are asking of a total stranger
Author Fair Posted January 23, 2018 Author Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) Why should he wait for one woman when there are others who are ready now? Sure, people are everywhere... but I am one that can't date just anybody. How often are REAL connections formed? I'm not saying we have much more right now than a month of phone calls, but so far, it feels like this has a lot of potential. I never feel that way, normally. Most men, I can smell a rat right from the first phone call. Most people assume you can't get to know anyone at ALL over the phone, well... that's just not true!! You can learn an awful lot, awfully fast. Besides, how many issues do you have lurking that you might expect someone else to put up with/be patient about? A lot you're not even considering, I'm betting. Everyone has something. Even if you've basically got your sh** together, but say, you have kids and an ex wife, you're asking a lot from a new woman to step into that situation... A LOT. It may or may not be a land mine. And she can't be sure it won't be. We all ask a lot of each other in relationships... Edited January 23, 2018 by Fair
todreaminblue Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) I'm not of the opinion I have social anxiety. A panic disorder/anxiety is a symptom of grief that most people don't seem to be aware of... I don't see myself as some hopeless case that won't get over it for years, as someone else suggested. I was just in a dark place I'm slowly coming out of... as everyone does who experiences grief... if someone wants to discard someone over that, the only word that comes to mind is 'callous'. I never thought of not having told him about my anxiety yet as 'lying'. I just feel it's a very personal matter and one that you should eventually tell, yes, but not something you are 'obligated' to tell before you're ready. It was never my intention to 'lie.' There are a few on here who are a bit harsh about the way I handled this but then also said, that when they went through a similar situation it all turned out okay. So... I'm tending to believe it will be okay. As long as we meet not too much further down the road. i don't think anyone with any form of anxiety, social or otherwise is ever a hopeless case even if they have anxiety for years....it can be managed there are strategies.....to cope....as far as hope goes....anxious people have as much hope( if not more) as the next person with life and love ....with employment.....no one should ever write anyone off and judge them as less of a person because they have a disorder or condition or are dealing with issues such as you are in grief.... i feel your defensiveness...and i am hoping it was not my post that contributed to you feeling under attack....if it was ...i did not intend to make you feel less...in my skewed way i was trying to be positive...if you did not feel that then i apologise for my posts whole heartedly....... if you withhold something from someone and give them an excuse that isnt truthful...you are first and foremost not being honest to who you are and how you really feel..it may not be a direct lie....but it also isnt honest..and i have a feeling you prefer honesty.....you are right privacy and personal details are what allows people in....its your choice to tell or not......and when you date ...that is what you are doing allowing someone in your personal and intimate life......you need to choose to tell because you know it to feel right too... i feel that you also look down on having anxiety see it as hopelessness to live with.....liking to separate what you feel as grief anxiety from social anxiety...i have anxiety have lived with it for years...and i accept i get it in certain situations.....the people who truly love me...understand...i dotn feel at all you should not date now...i just feel for your own personal growth and progression past anxiety ...its better to tell the guy you like....whats going on..if he sticks around...he is a keeper....i date my heart is open to date...i just dont date any guy....i prefer to wait until i feel i can trust them knowing me which means knowing my vulnerability...go hard ro go home is a personal motto .JUST DO IT... another.and yep that includes feeling anxious and doing it anyway.........and when im prepared for them to walk or stay i know im ready to date...............good luck my friend....deb Edited January 24, 2018 by todreaminblue
Author Fair Posted January 24, 2018 Author Posted January 24, 2018 Yet, you refuse to even meet this guy and instead make up a bunch of BS excuses each time he asks to meet you. Try looking at it from his perspective. Fair, I like you, and I mean this in the most respectful way possible, but in this instance, you are being the rat. How many times have you straight up lied to this guy when he asked you out? The most important thing this guy has learned is that when he asks to see you, he is met with constant rejection. Yes, we all ask a lot of one another in relationships. Thing is, you won't give this guy the chance at a relationship. You're just a phone buddy who refuses to see him. You're asking for a lot and offering none of the perks that come with relationships. I haven't given him any excuses at all, enigma, you missed half of what was in this thread. This coming weekend is the first time he asked to meet... and I'm now struggling for the courage to tell him about my anxiety and that I may not be able to do it.
Author Fair Posted January 24, 2018 Author Posted January 24, 2018 i feel your defensiveness...and i am hoping it was not my post that contributed to you feeling under attack....if it was ...i did not intend to make you feel less...in my skewed way i was trying to be positive...if you did not feel that then i apologise for my posts whole heartedly...... I value your opinions deb... thank you. You did not put me on the defensive, although I do feel attacked a lot on these threads sometimes... from various posters. I haven't learned in depth about social anxiety as opposed to other forms. I've always felt they were all slightly different... grief anxiety, GAD, social anxiety, etc... I feel I have something that will not last years... it's just a 'stage' of grief, is what I've been told. 1
Miss Spider Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 I'm not of the opinion I have social anxiety. A panic disorder/anxiety is a symptom of grief that most people don't seem to be aware of... I don't see myself as some hopeless case that won't get over it for years, as someone else suggested. I was just in a dark place I'm slowly coming out of... as everyone does who experiences grief... if someone wants to discard someone over that, the only word that comes to mind is 'callous'. I never thought of not having told him about my anxiety yet as 'lying'. I just feel it's a very personal matter and one that you should eventually tell, yes, but not something you are 'obligated' to tell before you're ready. It was never my intention to 'lie.' There are a few on here who are a bit harsh about the way I handled this but then also said, that when they went through a similar situation it all turned out okay. So... I'm tending to believe it will be okay. As long as we meet not too much further down the road. My apologies. I thought because you responded to someone about SA you also had it. My mistake. Anxiety can definitely stem from grief and is by no means less serious or transient then other cases depending on the impact of the trauma and also how it is handled afterwards. If you are making progress out on your own of it, that's fantastic too, but I hope you seek help if you can. My advice remains to tell him and that I am pretty sure he would wait for you, but I don't know if I would expect exclusivity. I would just take a bit of a break from dating and work on getting myself better and if the connection was real enough I think there is a high likelihood he will be there. Best wishes to you on your healing process and again I am sorry.
BaileyB Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 One of my favorite quotes is from CS Lewis... "No one ever told me that grief felt so like fear." It is so true. OP, I wish you all the best in your journey. I say, be honest with this guy. If he doesnt have compassion for your situation, then he is not the one for you. 4
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