Found out Dad I was interested in is married?!

February 12, 2018

JJ, thanks so much for your "behind the curtain" explanation. Women always have been, and always will be, a mystery to me and things like your post really help out a lot.

As for your three questions^^^? Yes , yes and yes

The spotty communication pattern thing is annoying, confusing, and a little bit of a bruise to the ego. In a way, ignoring us like that makes us like you ladies just a little bit less (temporarily). I wish you guys wouldn't do that. LOL

As JDJ suggested in the previous post, it's probably a good idea now to "establish a communication channel outside of basketball". My MW and I have absolutely no "official" business interacting with each other, so we needed to establish a line of communication beyond what our previous roles were (we don't work together anymore).

JJ, random question: have you ever seen the movie "Take This Waltz"?

So you guys have been on a date? But you’re no longer in touch though work, so I assume that opportunities to see each other are few.

I assume she’s married - do not underestimate the power of someone wanting to stay faithful. She may be riddled with feelings for you, but holding back because of her marriage. She definitely sees you as someone to have an affair with, since from everything you’ve said she’s obviously attracted and into you! But will she act on it? Don’t jump to the conclusion that she’s playing games. She may be genuinely torn.

I went through that when I was married, with the man I ended up being with after I got divorced. I spent years in a very intense one-sided emotional affair with him. I was terrified of showing him how I felt. I knew he would escalate it, being the kind of man who had loads of women, and I knew I couldn’t handle adultery. My sex life in my marriage was in shambles, but I still did not allow myself to sleep with him.

After my divorce, he pursued me, and this is the only reason why anything happened! He did fall in love with me, but I found him to be extremely narcissistic and it was more than I wanted to handle. So that brought me to b-dad...

Your married woman might be the kind of woman who does not take sex and vows lightly - I know I was. Even if she is in love with you, her marriage may be too much of a barrier. It’s up to you to decide if you want to help her get over it, and be with you, and eventually leave her marriage.

As for the movie, I’ve never seen it! Just looked it up and it looks entertaining because of the subject - I have about 3 hours free this afternoon so I might watch it I usually only watch classic movies so the newer ones tend to get overlooked!

February 12, 2018

JJacobs,

Your thread is beautifully written and analyzed. I got drawn into the drama and spent most of the evening reading it! Clearly you are enjoying the excitement of the situation. But there are emotions and potential on one side, versus facts on the other. What I am most surprised by is that all of your communication occurs in the context of the basketball games. I mean, he is required to be there, and he is required to write to the kids' parents. If he says "Hi" to you more often than other parents, e-mails you individually a bit more than other parents, and looks at you more often because of your attractiveness, all of that may still not add up to much. Maybe he just enjoys passing the time during games with the prettiest woman in the stands, and that would be someone else every season.
I was surprised when you said it would be easy for you to make him fall in love. I don't think men are as simple as you think, and your scenario of having complete control over his heart if you were to make a move is more of an exciting dream on your part than a sure thing. Reality is never that easy.
It seems as though you think the mutual attraction between you will pull you automatically together after the season ends. But if you already have his number, I think it is on you to text him a little something (maybe just a question about your son's performance) to establish a communication channel outside of basketball before it is too late. If you are not ready to do that, maybe you need to reflect on what you are really hoping for.

Good luck!

I agree. I'm just going to set aside my feelings about @JJacobs wanting to pursue a married man and just agree along with this post.

This dad probably does have a crush on OP, and he enjoys flirting with her, but that's all it is. I hope. If he wants to go for her and risk upsetting his whole family, I do hope he at least files for divorce from his wife first. Just like OP divorced her husband first before she ended up with her second guy.

I actually remember having a similar crush on one of my children's sports coaches, about 8 years ago. My daughter's married gymnastics coach was so cute, fun, friendly, and I was reading too much into his friendliness, just like OP is doing. I remember he was super-friendly to the point of flirty to all of us moms. He would grab us around the waist, and playfully threaten to push us into the foam pit where the gymnasts landed. One time after practice, he accompanied my daughter and I to the sub shop and when we ordered our sandwiches, he paid for them. Of course I read too much into all of that stuff because of my (extramarital) crush. I was feeling disconnected in my own marriage, and this guy was fun, and I looked forward to gymnastics practice a little too much because of it.

But then, by the end of the season, his wife started coming, and I realized that he meant NOTHING by being friendly to us, the other gymnasts' moms. His wife was much more attractive than any of us, a slender, fit redhead. My crush was extinguished, and we all stayed friends for that season and the next. I don't see the coach and his wife anymore much, because the gymnastics camp closed down and my daughter had to quit due to her injuries.

But the whole incident taught me that I needed to stop seeing the grass greener and keep my eyes AWAY from friendly other men.

Edited February 12, 2018 by bebe23

February 12, 2018

Which brings me to your next point, about falling in love. I should not have made this gender-specific. It is easy to make men or women fall in love - the process is the same. First you tempt them, you send them mixed signals, you hint at who you are - while finding out who they would prefer you to be, then you project those things. (I don’t believe right and wrong exist in seduction.) Then you enter their spirit by focusing intense attention on them - you take on their tastes, their moods, their feelings, effect a regression to a time of intense pleasure in their lives. Then you throw in a little pain - perhaps you’re no longer interested, there might be someone else, or you need to step back. You can keep this pleasure and pain dynamic going almost indefinitely! The lows will be low, but the highs will be monumental! The most important thing about making someone fall in love is that your efforts are ALL about *them* - you need to erase a lot of yourself during the process in order to project what they want.

Holy Moses! I knew a guy who got women doing exactly what you described. He was actually a diagnosed narcissist. All of his relationships eventually ended in great pain for the women. They usually required counselling once he got through with them. He was an expert at emotional manipulation. I guess you could say this method works if you don't ever want a healthy relationship and if you don't mind cruelly hurting people.

February 12, 2018

I've read through this entire thread, and I feel like you are reading way more into the situation than is there. Yes, maybe he flirts with you occasionally because he thinks you are pretty, and maybe if he was single he would love to date you, but he's not.

I really don't see anything more than a coach being friendly toward one of his player's parents. From your posts, it seems like you are always lurking around him, purposely placing yourself near him, looking at him -- so yes, of course he is going to say hello to you.

And honestly...maybe people (including his wife) are looking at you because you are spending two hours getting ready to go to a kid's basketball practice or game and are showing up all decked out in full hair and makeup. If that's your look, then you do you, but to some people it might come across as a little outlandish.

I don't know. I don't really understand your end game here. He's married.

February 12, 2018

From your posts, it seems like you are always lurking around him, purposely placing yourself near him, looking at him -- so yes, of course he is going to say hello to you.

This is a good point. Perhaps OP should not sit at a restaurant table NOT near the entrance next time, like toward the back/out of the way, and see if he says anything to her then, seeks her out.

February 12, 2018

I agree. I'm just going to set aside my feelings about @JJacobs wanting to pursue a married man and just agree along with this post.

This dad probably does have a crush on OP, and he enjoys flirting with her, but that's all it is. I hope. If he wants to go for her and risk upsetting his whole family, I do hope he at least files for divorce from his wife first. Just like OP divorced her husband first before she ended up with her second guy.

I actually remember having a similar crush on one of my children's sports coaches, about 8 years ago. My daughter's married gymnastics coach was so cute, fun, friendly, and I was reading too much into his friendliness, just like OP is doing. I remember he was super-friendly to the point of flirty to all of us moms. He would grab us around the waist, and playfully threaten to push us into the foam pit where the gymnasts landed. One time after practice, he accompanied my daughter and I to the sub shop and when we ordered our sandwiches, he paid for them. Of course I read too much into all of that stuff because of my (extramarital) crush. I was feeling disconnected in my own marriage, and this guy was fun, and I looked forward to gymnastics practice a little too much because of it.

But then, by the end of the season, his wife started coming, and I realized that he meant NOTHING by being friendly to us, the other gymnasts' moms. His wife was much more attractive than any of us, a slender, fit redhead. My crush was extinguished, and we all stayed friends for that season and the next. I don't see the coach and his wife anymore much, because the gymnastics camp closed down and my daughter had to quit due to her injuries.

But the whole incident taught me that I needed to stop seeing the grass greener and keep my eyes AWAY from friendly other men.

I disagree with getting a divorce because you want to flirt with someone My case with the second ex was an emotional affair for 6 years, and my marriage definitely didn’t end because of him. It was just a symptom that something was wrong.

As for b-dad, I’m objectively more attractive than his wife but I don’t know the role beauty really plays here. I’m proud of my looks but so much more goes into liking someone. Maybe we both will keep it to a fantasy only, but I’m not going to lie and say that’s what I want. It’s not. I want him to follow though, but I don’t want to be the one doing it.

February 12, 2018

Holy Moses! I knew a guy who got women doing exactly what you described. He was actually a diagnosed narcissist. All of his relationships eventually ended in great pain for the women. They usually required counselling once he got through with them. He was an expert at emotional manipulation. I guess you could say this method works if you don't ever want a healthy relationship and if you don't mind cruelly hurting people.

I definitely had a great teacher!! I can do this stuff in my sleep. But it’s too much work for my taste. I disagree that love happens by magic, but manipulation is part of the mating game. It would be fairly simple to keep someone hooked on you, but only if they allow you access first. So, let’s just say I have the ability to do this, but it still takes two to play this game successfully and most people aren’t skilled at it.

February 12, 2018

I've read through this entire thread, and I feel like you are reading way more into the situation than is there. Yes, maybe he flirts with you occasionally because he thinks you are pretty, and maybe if he was single he would love to date you, but he's not.

I really don't see anything more than a coach being friendly toward one of his player's parents. From your posts, it seems like you are always lurking around him, purposely placing yourself near him, looking at him -- so yes, of course he is going to say hello to you.

And honestly...maybe people (including his wife) are looking at you because you are spending two hours getting ready to go to a kid's basketball practice or game and are showing up all decked out in full hair and makeup. If that's your look, then you do you, but to some people it might come across as a little outlandish.

I don't know. I don't really understand your end game here. He's married.

Im definitely not the one seeking it out. If he sees me somewhere, he comes near me and starts conversations. I’d have to go back to previous posts but it’s happened several times. And only one time do I remember being the one who initiated any of the staring - it was always me catching him.

As I’ve mentioned before, I’m not asking if he’s flirting - of course he is. Men have been flirting with me since I was a 12 year old who looked 18! What confuses me is whether he means to take it all the way, and how much encouragement am I willing to give him? This is what I’ve been working through in these posts. I’m not reading too much into his behavior by knowing he has a crush; of course he does. But is that interest enough to make him act on it? And how involved does he need me to be for him to close the deal?

Posting on her helps me to process all of this.

February 12, 2018

This is a good point. Perhaps OP should not sit at a restaurant table NOT near the entrance next time, like toward the back/out of the way, and see if he says anything to her then, seeks her out.

This is a great idea. I will try it if the restaurant isn’t crowded next time.

February 13, 2018

JJacobs,

Let's leave aside the question of whether you can make anyone you want to fall in love with you. I'll remain agnostic on that for now.

I know that you want to prove your power by making him come to you without any overt overtures (pun intended) on your part. But he is not only married, he is the basketball coach. He will have a hard time justifying any behavior that is outside the normal boundaries of court play (another bad pun). He can't just start calling or texting the moms of the kids on the team randomly. He doesn't have an excuse to do that. If he ran into you in the grocery store, he might be able to start a non-coach conversation, but that hasn't happened yet. You like him because he is a respectable, well-behaved person, right? Not some lecherous horndog slavering over every MILF he encounters.

You, on the other hand, have a very mild and innocent reason to contact him. You can just text to say that you'd like to talk on the phone about your son's performance, what might happen next season, etc. That opens the door to a perfectly legitimate reason for him to have a longer one-on-one conversation with you, where there are infinite possibilities for subtle flirting and exploration of next steps. He can even remain well-behaved in that conversation and resist your charms if he is able to. But given that he, as a good, decent person, is hemmed in by both his marriage and his job relationship to you, you have to give him a little opening, just the tiniest permission, to contact you without repercussions. Otherwise, you should be ready for this episode in your life to remain an unexplored fantasy.

February 13, 2018

JJacobs,

Let's leave aside the question of whether you can make anyone you want to fall in love with you. I'll remain agnostic on that for now.

I know that you want to prove your power by making him come to you without any overt overtures (pun intended) on your part. But he is not only married, he is the basketball coach. He will have a hard time justifying any behavior that is outside the normal boundaries of court play (another bad pun). He can't just start calling or texting the moms of the kids on the team randomly. He doesn't have an excuse to do that. If he ran into you in the grocery store, he might be able to start a non-coach conversation, but that hasn't happened yet. You like him because he is a respectable, well-behaved person, right? Not some lecherous horndog slavering over every MILF he encounters.

You, on the other hand, have a very mild and innocent reason to contact him. You can just text to say that you'd like to talk on the phone about your son's performance, what might happen next season, etc. That opens the door to a perfectly legitimate reason for him to have a longer one-on-one conversation with you, where there are infinite possibilities for subtle flirting and exploration of next steps. He can even remain well-behaved in that conversation and resist your charms if he is able to. But given that he, as a good, decent person, is hemmed in by both his marriage and his job relationship to you, you have to give him a little opening, just the tiniest permission, to contact you without repercussions. Otherwise, you should be ready for this episode in your life to remain an unexplored fantasy.

Not to mention his future coaching opportunities. This is his first time coaching, according to OP. Imagine what happens if he gets caught cheating on his wife with the first hot MILF he sees in his first coaching season. No more coaching for him. No matter how attracted he is to OP, which is probably VERY attracted based on her description of her looks, it's a LOT to risk. I guess only he knows if she is worth the risk.

February 13, 2018

I've read through this entire thread, and I feel like you are reading way more into the situation than is there. Yes, maybe he flirts with you occasionally because he thinks you are pretty, and maybe if he was single he would love to date you, but he's not.

I really don't see anything more than a coach being friendly toward one of his player's parents.

LMAO

"I know my kind, what goes on in our minds"

February 13, 2018

It is easy to make men or women fall in love - the process is the same. First you tempt them, you send them mixed signals, you hint at who you are - while finding out who they would prefer you to be, then you project those things. (I don’t believe right and wrong exist in seduction.) Then you enter their spirit by focusing intense attention on them - you take on their tastes, their moods, their feelings, effect a regression to a time of intense pleasure in their lives. Then you throw in a little pain - perhaps you’re no longer interested, there might be someone else, or you need to step back. You can keep this pleasure and pain dynamic going almost indefinitely! The lows will be low, but the highs will be monumental! The most important thing about making someone fall in love is that your efforts are ALL about *them* - you need to erase a lot of yourself during the process in order to project what they want.

This reads like a textbook description of the narcissistic cycle of abuse: mirroring, love bombing, devaluing and discarding. Just making an observation.

February 13, 2018

Oh my God, you guys, I don’t know what to feel!

I’m at practice.

Yesterday I emailed b-dad saying I wasn’t sure if we needed to tell him when we were going to miss practice or only games, but that I was trying to reschedule an appointment and my son might not be here today but I wouldn’t have time to email him at the last minute.

He replied saying it always helps him to know when someone is going to be out because then they don’t have to delay practice waiting for someone to arrive, and that he hoped to see my son today but no worries if he couldn’t make it.

I did not reply. I got to practice and he was crossing the street in front of my car. We both waved and he went in. I took a while to get into the basketball court and sat down. I was pretending to ignore b/dad.

I was sitting on the bleachers sort of by myself, he stopped talking to the other coach and came directly to me. He was smiling wide and said, lookng into my eyes:”I knew you’d make it!”.

I was literally speechless.... I felt as if he knew I wouldn’t miss a practice! I managed to say, very scared, “Yes, I was able to reschedule..” He walked away smiling. He came to talk to me just to say that. Practice had already started, I was late for the first time.

Does this mean he knows I’m into him? That’s why he said that? He thought it was a lie or something?? Or does it mean he wanted me to make it?

I’m sitting here writing this in a panic. What if this means he knows I like him? Or was it his way of telling he hoped I’d make it tonight?

��

I’ll respond to the other posts once my brain is functioning again.

February 14, 2018

Ok, I’m over my freak out...

And the outcome is good! I’ve gone over and over his tone and he was not being cocky and implying he knew I like him... He was telling me he had thought about my not being there and was hoping I’d be... Just like last week, when he started a conversation by saying he thought he’d see me there early, referring to my email... There were many other parents there. He goes out of his way to talk to me only.

His tone tonight was very, very flirty. I was so taken aback, that I’m really considering dropping this whole thing. I can’t handle a man who doesn’t have any game in him... I definitely don’t have any game! I need some balance.

I spent the rest of practice staring at my phone. At one point I was watching my son and b-dad was to my left, alone, court-side directing the kids. I felt his eyes on me out of the corner of my eye. I did not look at him. I felt ashamed and rattled and shy and completely embarrassed that he might know about my interest.

But here’s the thing... He knows about my interest and he’s acknowledging it and going out of his way to flirt. So I think this isn’t meant to be. I just need to focus on men who are a lot more aggressive than he is. JDJ’s post is perfect - thank you for that. I will never be able to give him that kind of an opening, asking a question and looking for a phone call. I just don’t have it in me.

So I think I’ll spend the next 5 days we have together trying to detach. This whole thing has been awfully emotional and I don’t like feeling this uncomfortable. Maybe in another world, where he could/would pursue me openly, it would work. My personality totally prevents me from being with a man either too passive or too uninterested to make a move.

BUT THEN... I go back to our last emails. I was very careful not to include myself in any of the sentences! I wanted it to be about my son alone, I thought it would be safer. So I wrote “Hi [His Name] - I’m not sure if we’re supposed to tell you when they’re going to miss practice, or only games, but [my son’s name] may not be there tomorrow. I’m trying to reschedule an appointment and should hear back tomorrow morning. I won’t have time to email you tomorrow, so if he’s not there, that’s why! He will definitely be at the game on Saturday. Thanks, [My name]”.

He replied also talking about my son. When he arrived for practice, b-dad was already shooting around- just a smile and hi from b-dad, I watched this. When b-dad came over to me, he wanted to make sure I knew it was me he wanted to see There was absolute no reason for him to leave in the middle of practice and come tell me that - he didn’t come over to pick up a ball, or anything. He walked directly to me, said it, heard my response and walked back to practice. And I was thinking he was showing off about my interest

He wanted me to know that he wanted to see *me*.... And I’m right back where I started!! I think I’m terrified by the thought of b-dad being as into me as I am into him. Where is all of this fear coming from??

February 14, 2018

Nothing to add for the OP other than that this thread is a perfect illustration of how oblivious we men are to the complexities of courtship. Holysmokes!

February 14, 2018

Oh my God, you guys, I don’t know what to feel!

I’m at practice.

Yesterday I emailed b-dad saying I wasn’t sure if we needed to tell him when we were going to miss practice or only games, but that I was trying to reschedule an appointment and my son might not be here today but I wouldn’t have time to email him at the last minute.

He replied saying it always helps him to know when someone is going to be out because then they don’t have to delay practice waiting for someone to arrive, and that he hoped to see my son today but no worries if he couldn’t make it.

I did not reply. I got to practice and he was crossing the street in front of my car. We both waved and he went in. I took a while to get into the basketball court and sat down. I was pretending to ignore b/dad.

I was sitting on the bleachers sort of by myself, he stopped talking to the other coach and came directly to me. He was smiling wide and said, lookng into my eyes:”I knew you’d make it!”.

I was literally speechless.... I felt as if he knew I wouldn’t miss a practice! I managed to say, very scared, “Yes, I was able to reschedule..” He walked away smiling. He came to talk to me just to say that. Practice had already started, I was late for the first time.

Does this mean he knows I’m into him? That’s why he said that? He thought it was a lie or something?? Or does it mean he wanted me to make it?

I’m sitting here writing this in a panic. What if this means he knows I like him? Or was it his way of telling he hoped I’d make it tonight?

��

I’ll respond to the other posts once my brain is functioning again.

Wow, you just fed into his ego and how he guilted and manipulated you into going. You can't say NO to him and now he knows this.

He is (in a selfish way, not maliciously) playing you. Cat and mouse.

And you're eating it up hook, line and sinker.

Stop this before you fall in love with him and get hurt. He is married and has a family. He isn't going to leave his wife and kids for you! He may want a side fling to feed his ego. Eventually it will lead to an affair if you give the signals you're giving him to continue this behavior!

February 14, 2018

There were many other parents there. He goes out of his way to talk to me only.

Well I'm guessing that all those parents are assuming you two are having an affair.

So I think I’ll spend the next 5 days we have together trying to detach.

Huh? You can't detach from someone by spending time with them!

February 14, 2018

Wow, you just fed into his ego and how he guilted and manipulated you into going. You can't say NO to him and now he knows this.

He is (in a selfish way, not maliciously) playing you. Cat and mouse.
And you're eating it up hook, line and sinker.

Stop this before you fall in love with him and get hurt. He is married and has a family. He isn't going to leave his wife and kids for you! He may want a side fling to feed his ego. Eventually it will lead to an affair if you give the signals you're giving him to continue this behavior!

Thank you... I had a hard time sleeping last night. I have this bad feeling I can’t shake - which doesn’t make sense because he’s obviously interested after what he did last night. So why am I not happy? He’s flirting, this is what I wanted.

I don’t think he was guilting me into anything - he was actually really blasé about my son being there “Hope to see [son’s name] tomorrow, but no worries if he can’t make it”. I really do think that taking the time to come tell me he knew I’d be there was his way of saying he was hoping he would see me there and had thought about it. That was the tone he said it in. I got really scared because I didn’t expect him to be so bold - stopping practice to come talk to me - and I froze. Again.

Meanwhile, he’s all over my Facebook. Not only is he the top result in the search for his initials, but first result on the People You May Know tool since this past Sunday, which is well known for maliciously showing you who views your profile. True or not, he’s everywhere. I see his picture all over my social media and we’re not even connected. I posted something on Facebook about how my shyness always overcomes me... I hope he sees it and realizes why I’m such a dope!

I’m extremely sad. I just can’t control my reactions around him. I think this is why I’m not happy. I want him to be more forceful... He was bold yesterday, and I freaked out. I should have said something flirty like “Did you know I’d make it, or did you hope I would?” But does that come to me on the spot?? No!!

So I disagree with you that this will be an affair. He won’t take it all the way, and I’m completely incapacitated and unable to do it. I need to get over this sadness.

February 14, 2018

Well I'm guessing that all those parents are assuming you two are having an affair.

Huh? You can't detach from someone by spending time with them!

We have 3 more games and 2 more practices to go. I have to be there. So I’ll see him 5 more times and it will be over...

February 14, 2018

JJacobs,

It is great that you are honest with yourself and are taking the time to understand your own emotions. I am rooting for a happy conclusion to this story, whatever direction that may take.

Another question... if you just told him at the last basketball game something like "I enjoyed this season, and I hope to see you again", is that reaching out too much, or just a statement of fact?

February 14, 2018

JJacobs,

It is great that you are honest with yourself and are taking the time to understand your own emotions. I am rooting for a happy conclusion to this story, whatever direction that may take.

Another question... if you just told him at the last basketball game something like "I enjoyed this season, and I hope to see you again", is that reaching out too much, or just a statement of fact?

You’re the best, thank you!

I think that’s a great idea. I can do that - if it’s in an email I never have access to him on game days and it would be really crowded. We do have a little party for the kids after the last game and everyone is huddled together in a small space, so his wife and the other parents will be really close by....

But the email will work! I did take one extra step and have added a signature to my emails that include my phone number... The last 3 emails I’ve sent him have my number. I think switching modes of communication now would make me feel very insecure, so I’ll stick to the email to tell him I hope to see him again.... That I can definitely do!! I’ll send it after the party and if I see him again, it could have been a harmless remark and I won’t be embarrassed. Perfect.

Thank you, JDJ...

February 14, 2018

I have this bad feeling I can’t shake - which doesn’t make sense because he’s obviously interested after what he did last night. So why am I not happy? He’s flirting, this is what I wanted.

Your conscience?

Today is Valentine's Day. If this man is interested in pursuing you, I bet he'll think of an excuse to email you today and throw in a Happy Valentine's Day message.

Edited February 14, 2018 by CautiouslyOptimistic

February 14, 2018

I really don’t see that happening, it would be way too much ... Which has nothing to do with his interest. He seems to be able to flirt here and there, and he can be bold at times, but I doubt he’d be interested in an email trail. I have his wife’s email, if I was the one in a marriage, I’d be very, very careful. I’m not even married and I’m already scared of the consequences! Imagine him.

February 14, 2018

And yes, I think it could be my conscience... It’s as if his showing interest last night has made this concrete, not just fantasy, and it scared the heck out of me. I did not see this coming.

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