He crossed a boundary. Should I forgive him?

January 5, 2018

Break it up.

* Considering yourself *in love* after so little time indicates when you met him you were emotionally vulnerable, probably recently single?

* Women coming out of abusive relationships will often jump into another abusive relationship if they have not taken the time to work on themselves.

* The way this man spoke to you after 2 months indicates he controlling and you're about to enter, again, another relationship that will turn out controlling, manipulative and abusive.

* My parents have never raised their voice at each other after 53 years marriage. My BF and I have never raised our voice at each other in 2 years.

* Couples will raise their voice at each other while in crisis, example if I discover my bf is cheating yes I will probably yell, if he'd discover something horrific about me yes he would probably raise his voice but in your case he raised his voice simply because you cut him off? *red flat*

* You specifically told him raising his voice was a deal breaker, if you don't break up over it then what message are you sending?

To each his or her own. In my life and house hold everyone is raising their voice (actually screaming!!) At each other all day long every day.

But as OP said, her boundaries are raising voice. If she feels its been crossed then end it. He will find someone who doesn't have that boundry.

January 5, 2018

This here, I think, is important.

I think both of you contributed to this, OP.

I think you can cut someone by accident but I am not sure about yelling at someone by accident. OP made it clear he yelled her name. Cutting him off while he was speaking does not justify being yelled at.

What's next? I cut him off so he hit me, we're both responsible?

January 5, 2018

To each his or her own. In my life and house hold everyone is raising their voice (actually screaming!!) At each other all day long every day.

But as OP said, her boundaries are raising voice. If she feels its been crossed then end it. He will find someone who doesn't have that boundry.

She was questioning if there is such a thing as people never raising their voice, the answer is yes there are.

January 5, 2018

There are differences between volume & tone. Both are vastly different from abuse.

I'd rather somebody yell then be snide but I wouldn't break up with somebody other either.

IMO you drew your boundaries in the wrong place but they are your boundaries. I agree with whoever said that your failure to enforce boundaries that you insisted upon is a bigger problem going forward then his yelling.

Nobody is perfect. People raise their voices but it's not a constant nor accompanied by an angry tone it's hardly abusive, imo.

You may disagree & you are entitled to your opinion on how you will conduct your relationship.

I think it was a badly defined boundary & you are overreacting to a small misstep but I wasn't there & can only go by what you are sharing.

January 5, 2018

She was questioning if there is such a thing as people never raising their voice, the answer is yes there are.

Yes, there certainly are. But, in some cultures and in some families, speaking with a raised voice is the norm, perfectly acceptable. It makes me uncomfortable, but it is the norm for that individual.

I think the most important things are the spirit with which it was intended and whether he showed concern/remorse for your feelings. If he was apologetic, that's a good thing. I may give him another chance, but I would be watching to see how he handles conflict in the future...

January 5, 2018

I understand no one is perfect but a man raising his voice at me and yelling at me at 2 months dating has nothing good in store for me. I am saying that as a woman with experience in abusive relationships.

She told him it was a deal breaker, he broke the deal, she needs to respect her own rules. It's an important test, if she forgives him he will then do it again and raise it a little more each time.

I would not give that type of chance after 2 months dating. If he does that at 2 months what will he allow himself at 2 years?

OP was in an abusive relationship and she is on her way to enter another one.

I don't care if it's cultural or not, if my personal rule is to not have a man yell at me then I don't date a yeller.

January 5, 2018

At 2 months it is a bit soon for this level of conflict but I could get past the following yelled in a loud voice: "D0nni will you shut up & listen to me for a minute" or something similar. Even the "shut up" in that context would not bother me, despite more polite ways existing to get someone's attention. Bear in mind my example is a far cry from "Shut the F up, D0nni" or other belittling comments.

The OP, lbh33, is in the best position to know whether this was a volume based expression of frustration or the first step down the slippery slope to abuse.

IMO to say that all yelling is a deal breaker is an unreasonable stance. What if the new BF was yelling "OMG, lbh33, wake up! The house is on fire!"? Would she still dump him for raising his voice even though it saved her life.

January 5, 2018

Yes, there certainly are. But, in some cultures and in some families, speaking with a raised voice is the norm, perfectly acceptable. It makes me uncomfortable, but it is the norm for that individual.

I think the most important things are the spirit with which it was intended and whether he showed concern/remorse for your feelings. If he was apologetic, that's a good thing. I may give him another chance, but I would be watching to see how he handles conflict in the future...

Yup. Try living in. A house full of crazy Latinas. Includes my own kid.

January 5, 2018

The OP, lbh33, is in the best position to know whether this was a volume based expression of frustration or the first step down the slippery slope to abuse.

IMO to say that all yelling is a deal breaker is an unreasonable stance. What if the new BF was yelling "OMG, lbh33, wake up! The house is on fire!"? Would she still dump him for raising his voice even though it saved her life.

She had been in an abusive relationship with a yeller, she knows the difference. What he did made her uncomfortable that's why she's posting. I want her to trust her instinct.

January 5, 2018

Update: we talked today and he expressed to me that he was unclear of my expectations- he thought I meant that my boundary was aggressively yelling back and forth during an argument. He also said that now that he knows exactly what I mean he can refrain from this. He said if he feels himself getting overly frustrated in the future then he will take a break from the conversation. I honestly do believe him and think the fact that he is sick rn contributed to his quickness to frustration.

For the record, just because raising voices is a boundary for me does not mean that I think a raised voice = abuse. I am completely aware of what true abuse is and I never thought that this singular incident is indicative of abuse. It is a boundary for me because it is a trigger, it always will be, and I'm realistic about that. I just want that to be clear and I made it clear to him too. He said he doesn't want to trigger me and I did ask him if it was realistic to expect him to refrain from yelling bc after this thread I did realize that for some people that might not be realistic of me. He said yes.

Also, my last relationship ended about a year ago and I wouldn't have gotten in this relationship if I wasn't ready to date. I do not think having boundaries, regardless if they are a boundary for others or not, is indicative of having not fully healed. Even if raised voices ceased to be a trigger for me, I would not allow it in my conversations when it is out of frustration or anger.

January 5, 2018

She had been in an abusive relationship with a yeller, she knows the difference. What he did made her uncomfortable that's why she's posting. I want her to trust her instinct.

Gaeta, your understanding means so much to me! I feel like you get where I am coming from to a tee and appreciate all your replies here.

January 5, 2018

That's a nope from me. I'm a loud talker and it's normal for my family to shout to each other from different rooms in the house or get a little bit too passionate about some topics we're discussing. But even I think it's not ok to snap or yell at each other in an angry manner and I feel disrespected and humiliated when that happens.

In this case, it sounds like it's only the beginning. My goodness, a woman happens to interrupt him, so he immediately gets worked up and feels like silencing her? By yelling out her name? People like him need to stop taking themselves too seriously, it's not a criminal offense to interrupt someone, especially by accident. Maybe he's carrying his own emotional luggage of emotional abuse though?

January 5, 2018

Update: we talked today and he expressed to me that he was unclear of my expectations- he thought I meant that my boundary was aggressively yelling back and forth during an argument. He also said that now that he knows exactly what I mean he can refrain from this. He said if he feels himself getting overly frustrated in the future then he will take a break from the conversation. I honestly do believe him and think the fact that he is sick rn contributed to his quickness to frustration.

For the record, just because raising voices is a boundary for me does not mean that I think a raised voice = abuse. I am completely aware of what true abuse is and I never thought that this singular incident is indicative of abuse. It is a boundary for me because it is a trigger, it always will be, and I'm realistic about that. I just want that to be clear and I made it clear to him too. He said he doesn't want to trigger me and I did ask him if it was realistic to expect him to refrain from yelling bc after this thread I did realize that for some people that might not be realistic of me. He said yes.

Also, my last relationship ended about a year ago and I wouldn't have gotten in this relationship if I wasn't ready to date. I do not think having boundaries, regardless if they are a boundary for others or not, is indicative of having not fully healed. Even if raised voices ceased to be a trigger for me, I would not allow it in my conversations when it is out of frustration or anger.

Last time I was in a relationship with a man yelling at me was 14 years ago and STILL I cannot deal with a man raising his voice. If my BF yelled at me it would kill my love and respect for him instantly. Lucky me I am dating a cool cat that never gets mad.

I hope your new BF can control himself. Keep in mind it's in his nature, maybe even cultural as people have suggested. It doesn't mean you have to endure it. It means you are not compatible.

January 5, 2018

lbh33

I'm glad you two talked.

I understand yelling as a trigger but even though it's a trigger for you, doesn't make all yelling bad, which you seem to recognize although that wasn't clear to me initially.

I can totally see your BF's perspective that he thought yelling back & forth during the argument was the prohibited conduct & that is a perfectly rational boundary IMO. He didn't completely get that any raised voice was the issue. That is what I think is unrealistic; people yell. If when it gets to that point & you or he says this is getting too heated let's take a break, that's fine. Continued yelling after a request for a cease fire is problematic.

January 5, 2018

That's a nope from me. I'm a loud talker and it's normal for my family to shout to each other from different rooms in the house or get a little bit too passionate about some topics we're discussing. But even I think it's not ok to snap or yell at each other in an angry manner and I feel disrespected and humiliated when that happens.

In this case, it sounds like it's only the beginning. My goodness, a woman happens to interrupt him, so he immediately gets worked up and feels like silencing her? By yelling out her name? People like him need to stop taking themselves too seriously, it's not a criminal offense to interrupt someone, especially by accident. Maybe he's carrying his own emotional luggage of emotional abuse though?

Absolutely with you on this. I am of French heritage we love to debate! we get all worked up about politics and can get very loud while debating but that has nothing to do with raising a voice AT a girlfriend or boyfriend.

January 5, 2018

I haven't caught up with any responses past this as yet but to reply to this one:

Gemma uk

Hmmmm, I'm not sure if I totally agree with that

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-mysteries-love/201503/15-common-forms-verbal-abuse-in-relationships

With respect the article talks of various types of verbal abuse.

Any type of abuse begins or signs of it (potential for it) begin in much more subtle ways that that.

One initial clear sign for instance is a lack of responsibility for things that didn't go well in their life or are not going well. Blame shift to the boss, the co-worker, the parent...etc...when the individual did or does actually have some responsibility for whatever it was or is.

I only know having had an abusive relationship and wondering what the hell happened and having done a significant amount of research into it.

January 5, 2018

After only dating 2 months and you are having to talk issues with him? Keep your eyes open and carry on.

January 5, 2018

I've been dating a guy for about 2 months. Very early on I made it clear that after my last emotionally abusive relationship, I had some boundaries for confrontations, and those include raising voices and swearing at each other during arguments. I told him that for me, those are deal breakers. Tonight, we were discussing a problem he has and when I accidentally interrupted him, he raised his voice at me to get me to be quiet. I immediately told him that it was not okay and that I was not going to deal with this. He has been apologetic since but I am confused as to what to do. I already feel in love with him but I promised myself I would be strict with my boundaries after my last relationship. I am concerned because I genuinely thought he would not have a problem respecting my boundaries. Any advice?

If you have this boundary, then by all means enforce it. Just be advised that some may think the boundary ridiculous and basically walk all over said boundary.

I say that not to be mean but because not all people you potentially date will automatically wish to resolve disputes with hushed voices and addressing you as Ma'am during disputes.

Again, this sounds like a boundary that is easily walked over at nauseum if it is not enforced from the get go. Not everyone is going to fall in line

I am afraid you will be disappointed in life if you trot out argument boundaries and expect them to be fully observed when you are dealing with emotional moments(such as arguments). Life tends to not work like that.

Good Luck.

January 5, 2018

If you have this boundary, then by all means enforce it. Just be advised that some may think the boundary ridiculous and basically walk all over said boundary.

I say that not to be mean but because not all people you potentially date will automatically wish to resolve disputes with hushed voices and addressing you as Ma'am during disputes.

Again, this sounds like a boundary that is easily walked over at nauseum if it is not enforced from the get go. Not everyone is going to fall in line

I am afraid you will be disappointed in life if you trot out argument boundaries and expect them to be fully observed when you are dealing with emotional moments(such as arguments). Life tends to not work like that.

Good Luck.

I completely disagree. I think people in relationships can and should be fully upfront about both their personal boundaries and whether they can realistically respect their partner's boundaries. In my situation, he did cross it, but I genuinely think he was unclear on what I actually expected of him. I think if someone cannot control their tone of voice in an otherwise calm discussion then they have their own problem. Also, I expect nothing to be discussed in a hushed tone, or to be addressed as ma'am by my partner, or that *everyone* will be okay with my boundaries. I am aware that not everyone can respect my boundaries. It doesn't make me change them.

Yes, arguments happen, but mature and respectful adults in relationships should know how to appropriately handle that.

Edited January 5, 2018 by lbh33

January 5, 2018

Raised voices after 2 short months would be a big red flag for me. I am not a yeller / arguer / god forbid screamer, so that would be an issue for me.

I think very few people get through life or through a ltr without ever raising their voice. I'm not sure its an entirely realistic boundary. You might have to always be breaking up after the first or second disagreement.

In 16 years, I can count on my fingers the number if times my husband and I have raised voices at each other.

Sure we get into disagreements, but we settle them in a respectful way.

Neighter of us are "yellers". Both of us had dysfunctional homes in our early youth that included yelling and screaming - and we strive not to.

To each his or her own. In my life and house hold everyone is raising their voice (actually screaming!!) At each other all day long every day..

To each their own. I couldn't like like that for a moment. My home, and my partner need to be a place of tranquility. Screaming? NO F'ing way. Just not part of my make up. I am not a screamer, I won't put up with one. I find it really disrespectful and just... a miserable way to live. I know some thrive in that sort of situation, but not me!

January 5, 2018

Tonight, we were discussing a problem he has and when I accidentally interrupted him, he raised his voice at me to get me to be quiet.

lbh33, there is more to this than a man raising his voice. This type of behavior is indicative of a controlling man. He wanted to control when you get to speak and when you get to shut up. A non-controlling man would have simply let you finish and speak his mind after. He could have cut you off and say *please let me finish my point*, he could have handled this 10 different ways but his way is to *order you* to stop talking.

You should put this man on 'probation'. I know you like him and you even said you fell in love already, which is not love but infatuation. Still, you need to keep a cool head and observe this man. I think you will discover more and more about him very soon.

January 5, 2018

Thats a **** test. If he apologized and hasn't had this type of repetitive behavior in the past...Let it go and start to be more attentive during conversations. That includes listening. Being interrupted is rude enough. Then you levy the weight of the past relationships on his shoulders? I think that communication is a two way street.

January 5, 2018

'

I think you can cut someone by accident but I am not sure about yelling at someone by accident. OP made it clear he yelled her name. Cutting him off while he was speaking does not justify being yelled at.

What's next? I cut him off so he hit me, we're both responsible?

My GF raised her voice on me (rudely, I guess) on the first day we met. We are happily married now more than 20 years.

Is this fact has the chance that you will change your mind a little bit? Maybe to think not to be so determind about sending girls to break up from the person they love?

BTW - me and my gf (now wife) told each other we loved each other after about 2-3 weeks of dating. I'm so sorry that I stepped out of line and didn't follow your premitted time table, but is this fact may change your mind a little bit, to be a less determind on when and how people might fall in love?

BTW 2 - my GF (now wife) has never raised a hand on me. Yet she raises her voice on me many times. We still love each other. Please remember that fact before you compare someone who raises his voice, to a violent man.

Thank you

January 5, 2018

'
My GF raised her voice on me (rudely, I guess) on the first day we met. We are happily married now more than 20 years.

Before your GF yelled at you had you specifically told her you don't want yelling in your relationship? Because OP told him.

'
BTW 2 - my GF (now wife) has never raised a hand on me. Yet she raises her voice on me many times. We still love each other. Please remember that fact before you compare someone who raises his voice, to a violent man.

Because your yelling wife doesn't hit you then a man yelling at his GF won't hit her. This is an insult to all the 35% of women living in abusive relationships.

January 5, 2018

Thats a **** test.

Its a boundary test and he is seeing what he can get away with which is exactly what abusers do.

I agree with Gaeta, he is controlling.

he raised his voice at me to get me to be quiet.
This type of behavior is indicative of a controlling man. He wanted to control when you get to speak and when you get to shut up.

lbh33,

Your gut is telling you that this is not right, listen to it.

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He crossed a boundary. Should I forgive him?

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