Sbla22 Posted January 3, 2018 Posted January 3, 2018 I'm doing some soul searching and reflection recently. My dating experience over the last couple of years has left me making self improvements but one thing I was wondering, I suppose more for guys, is do you feel a pressure to be perfect? I feel like to keep a woman interested and maintain it takes so much. You have to: Play it cool Not express your true feelings, particularly first few months Have a good job Have your own place and car Be fairly good looking/good body Be good at texting. Not text too much, text the right things, text enough or at the right moments. Not be too passive in the first dates but not too agressive. Be good at sex and provide good sexual chemistry but never actually explicitly mention sex first few dates. Pay for the first few dates. Be caring and loving but not too much or it will be needy. Be a 'man' constantly - 'man up', fight with other males for the woman's attention. Don't get jealous but also show a little bit of jealousy. Play guess games. -------- Some of these apply to women too but I guess my point is - if you don't show most of these things early on you are easily cast aside.
Imajerk17 Posted January 3, 2018 Posted January 3, 2018 No. Read the threads on here written by the women for proof of this. Many women are emotionally involved w men making many so-called "mistakes", including the ones on your list. If a woman likes you, she often will give you a lot of latitude ( sometimes even against her better judgement). 4
python23 Posted January 3, 2018 Posted January 3, 2018 (edited) Nobody is perfect and not everybody is going to want to date you or find you attractive, the majority won’t even. But the most important thing is how you feel in yourself, what you fear you attract. Women want a confident guy who’s goal driven, assertive and knows what he wants. You also have to know what you want, the woman has to prove to you also that she’s worth your time and effort, don’t treat women as these goddesses that you have to wine and dine and beg for their affection, no chance. Work on yourself and make sure you become the best possible version of yourself and then you’ll attract the best possible woman. You do not need everything in that list, but if you’re hard working and trying to achieve those things then it shows you’re driven. That’s very attractive to women. If you see yourself as a 4 you’re not going to attract higher. Make yourself better and the confidence you get from that will show in public and the right people will be attracted to you When it comes to dating, it’s pretty simple, be assertive and make plans. It’s true that you should not show your feelings too early, the key is to let the woman show her cards first, let her wonder about you. A woman who’s wondering where she stands with you will automatically become more attracted to you. This does not mean you’ve got to play games. It just means you need to live your life while you’re dating her, don’t be available every second of the day. Make plans with her then get off the phone. Too many guys drop everything just to text or call their date all the time. This subconsciously turns women off and bores them. Women should always be doing 80% of the texting. If you’re initiating more than she is, you’re texting too much. Phones are for arranging dates, get off the phone and live your life. Edited January 3, 2018 by python23 1
d0nnivain Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 Dating like many things is a balancing act. You need to click & that takes just the right amount of . . . "something." With the right person when you are both feeling it, some of the above comes naturally. Even if you break all those "rules" if the other person really likes you, it doesn't matter. 3
todreaminblue Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) there no rules in love .....too many variables.... you just have to be you....know how to express your emotions.. and have faith that you are worthy to be loved ready to give love and get it back...the rest will come on a learning curve and every time you fall in love the learning curve will be different .....the dynamic will change....probably why love is hard to define and means so many things. ..completely different between person to person.....love is a contradiction..... can be healing and destroying....gentle or brutal.....can make or ruin you...can be the best or worst experience....can make you laugh like an idiot or make you cry like a baby..but the very worst thing on earth to happen to a human being ...is to never feel love or give love at all...to be capable of love.......thats what will and has created psychopaths ...the absence of love in their hearts....i dont think you have to play games to be loved.....or manipulate....in fact i really believe...you shouldnt mess with love and games........because then its not true love you will find in a person..................deb...... Edited January 4, 2018 by todreaminblue 2
Mx12345 Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 A 31 year old woman’s perspective: -guys think women who take selfies are narcissistic and immature but then you start to date a guy and see all his likes on Instagram selfies of beautiful women. -you can’t be too “lovey dovey” the first few months because it will scare a guy off -you have to have a good job, live alone, have a car -don’t text too much -not be too aggressive or overly flirty the first few dates because the guy will automatically assume all you’re interested in is a hookup, so you have to be passive even if you have a more bubbly outgoing personality -don’t get jealous even if the guy is doing something that makes you feel jealous -don’t have kids (I don’t personally and don’t care if a guy does but at my age I know so many guys who think single mothers are deal breakers) -even if the night is going well and you have great chemistry don’t have sex on the first few dates because once he has sex with you the chase is over for him. -know that the chances of him no longer being interested after the first sexual encounter are pretty high these days -if he invites you over after a date to have a drink/coffee/meet his dog that’s code for having sex and if you go because you actually want to meet his dog just know that’s code for having sex -that you could be the most beautiful, amazing, intelligent, put together woman in the world, but if a guy is not ready to settle down and be with you and only you, you’re not going to change his mind no matter how awesome you are. Women feel pressure to be perfect too. Dating is hard and complicated for both sides. 2
Miss Spider Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 Not everyone falls for 'perfect'. Not everyone wants it. I'd say trying too hard to be perfect will get you further from your desired result 2
Maggie4 Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 OP, I've also noticed this, especially reading some posts here. Nice young men treading on eggshells, afraid to make a mistake. I don't like it one bit. Part of this is normal when a young man is in love, that has been going on for centuries. Part of it is hen-pecking which has always existed here and there. But another part of it is the society today. I wonder if there's just too much online dating? OLD trains people into thinking a certain way. Do that long term, it changes you. You are reduced to a list of stats, some photos. Judgements are made quickly, humans beings easily discarded. It's pretty rough. 2
Chilli Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) Sounds ridiculous to me and l'm not even young. Just be yourself , the right girl will love it , that's all l've ever done or ever will. Never been a problem with anyone that matters. Of course in a relationship or marriage male or female yeah we all have to curve a few bad habits, make some compromises or something but that's life as a couple and a different thing. Edited January 4, 2018 by Chilli 4
hercules22 Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 i somewhat agree with what you said dating is just difficult
MaleIntuition Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 «Just be yourself» is a pretty terrible advice. What if you suck? Should you not try to improve? Fear of rejection? Low self esteem? Anxiety? There are plenty of traits that can be very harmful when it comes to dating success. We all have things in our lives that we can chose to improve. “Be perfect” is an equally terrible advice, simply because there is no such thing. Sounds like OP has been reading a lot of dating advice lately and that can indeed be overwhelming. A lot of the things listed are also subjective in nature, such as texting preferences or how quickly one should escalate physically - they never have One True Answer. My advice would be something like (this is as much an advice to myself as it is to op ): “Get to know yourself, and work on the aspects that you want to improve”. Chances are that if you are unhappy with something about yourself, that something might drag you down and impact your self esteem. It’s not important to have a “good” job. But you should definitely strive after a job that you enjoy! It will make you a happier and more attractive person. 2
Gaeta Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) I have noticed that men think they need the perfect recipe for a woman to fall in love with them when all they need to do is be themselves. We have men coming on here convinced they don't have a girlfriend because they're not cool enough, or because they're bald, or because they don't have a phd when all of this doesn't matter for majority of women. Men also think that if they get the recipe right, if they apply the right amount of coolness, if they get the perfect job, perfect car, perfect alpha-ness then for sure, *for sure* women will fall for them, when all this again don't mean a thing to majority of women. We are humans and we want a connection first and if that connection comes from a man with less money, less impressive job, less coolness we still will pick that man. All of us women on here can list you our boyfriend's flaws and we still picked them for boyfriends. Edited January 4, 2018 by Gaeta 1
python23 Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 The advice of just be yourself has to be without a doubt the worst piece of advice you could give to a guy or girl for that matter. The definition of insanity is repeating the same actions and expecting different results. If you’re a shy, introvert, insecure guy that instantly acts needy for example around women then 99.9 % of women will run a mile. And this is a fact. And if you continue to be “yourself” while getting little success in dating then you must take a look at yourself. You should be asking yourself “ What can i change, how can i improve, am I too needy? Yea, ok right well I’m going to learn how to not be too needy, I’m going to give women space when I’m dating next Time” This is just a small example. We have to be aware of our issues and problems and change them if we are to have different results. Women say just be yourself but it’s complete rubbish. So guys, don’t listen to that advice.
jjgitties Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 Be yourself as much as possible and hide the "crazy" at the beginning. But rest assured, Sooner or later it will all come out and the true test will ensure. They will either accept you (with the "crazy" as is) or leave you. But you don't want them to leave because you were putting on a show of someone you never we're in the first place. There is only so long you can pull that one off. Also, overly clingy too fast is always always unattractive. It doesn't matter if the hottest woman in the world I just met.. if she's overly clingy too fast .. you completely lose all interest.
Lamartine Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 I'm going to address each of your points from my perspective as a single woman: "Play it cool" This does not matter to me. I'd rather a guy be genuine: I want to get to know him, not an invented persona. "Not express your true feelings, particularly first few months" I want to hear what a person close to me is feeling. I am always pleasantly surprised when I am with a new man and he wears his heart on his sleeve. It shows he is genuine and open to becoming close to me. "Have a good job" Yes, it's always better when the man I am dating has a good job. It's not necessarily about the money, though. It's more about purpose and passion. I'd be happier with a man who felt a calling to be a teacher, loved his work, and made $45K a year than an investment banker who hated life, was never home, and made 300K a year. Stability and the ability to be an adult partner to me are what I find important. "Have your own place and car" Yes, unless the man is going through an illness or a temporary rough time, he needs to have his own place. At the very least, he needs to be able to lease an apartment. It doesn't have to be anything fabulous, but it shows me that he can function on his own. I would prefer he have a car because I live in a city that is spread out and has poor mass transit. I don't want to be the one driving all the time. "Be fairly good looking/good body" He just needs to take care of himself and his health. I notice smiles on men and, within reason, I really don't care if they are carrying some extra weight. At this stage in my life, I have been with handsome men and am trying very hard to get past looks because I've finally realized how much more important character is. "Be good at texting. Not text too much, text the right things, text enough or at the right moments. " Just don't ignore or ghost me. "Not be too passive in the first dates but not too agressive." Just be yourself. I want to feel safe and respected, but I'm not opposed to talk of sex. Within the first few dates, I'd be very happy to kiss or maybe do a little something more. I could also wait if the man isn't ready. "Be good at sex and provide good sexual chemistry but never actually explicitly mention sex first few dates." You can't provide sexual chemistry. Either it's there or it's not. There is nothing wrong with mentioning sex as long as it's presented respectfully. "Pay for the first few dates." I find it kind and an expression of real interest if a man does this, but I do not expect it. I always offer to split the bill. Be caring and loving but not too much or it will be needy. Be a 'man' constantly - 'man up', fight with other males for the woman's attention. "Don't get jealous but also show a little bit of jealousy." Jealousy is a turn off for me personally. "Play guess games." I hate guessing games and will probably leave a relationship if I'm forced to play them for very long. I hope that helps! It's just one woman's opinion, but I assume I'm fairly similar to other women who are dating right now. Good luck!
snowboy91 Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 «Just be yourself» is a pretty terrible advice. What if you suck? Should you not try to improve? Fear of rejection? Low self esteem? Anxiety? There are plenty of traits that can be very harmful when it comes to dating success. We all have things in our lives that we can chose to improve. I think to "just be yourself" really means "be the best version of yourself". It's about highlighting what you feel the best parts of you are, working on the things that aren't so great, and not pretending to be someone you're not. The self is not always fixed, if we choose to we can always learn, improve and use experience. But if we put on a show and pretend to be something just to get into a relationship, it will leave one person drained from constantly pretending, and/or the other feeling deceived that the other is not who they thought they were. No-one is perfect, everyone has flaws. On top of that, people like different things so someone who is perfect for one person is pretty awful for another. 2
LilySun Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 Only some of those things are an absolute.. Like having a job and a car.. That is just basic responsibility things that everyone should have, not just men. Everything else depends on the girl, really. I know guys who talk about their feelings and guys who don't. I can go either way but this sort of thing is not a requirement, it's a preference that only some people might have. Same with texting, sex, etc. The tricky part is figuring out what people prefer and what they don't. But this is why you just be yourself and eventually that will attract someone. Also remember, girls have many of the exact same concerns about men, and also have insecurities. 1
bachdude Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 In answer to the OP’s question... No...I have never felt pressure to be perfect from a women, but I have many times felt the pressure to assume traditionally “manly” traits that include, Be the emotionally strong one so she can lean on me for support Don’t shed a tear, except at a funeral or similar serious event Take her darts, without showing any sensitivity Be confident, at least most the time Have a backbone, at least most of the time What you see time and time again on this forum is that many guys are just as insecure, just as sensitive, and just as emotional as women, but feel a pressure to stuff it all in because they know it is a handicap in relationships with many women. I hate to burst your bubbles ladies, but anyone who has seen young boys, knows the male species to be quite sensitive by nature. Many of us learn to stuff it in to please you. I, for I, have it down to a science. 1
MaleIntuition Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 I think to "just be yourself" really means "be the best version of yourself". It's about highlighting what you feel the best parts of you are, working on the things that aren't so great, and not pretending to be someone you're not. The self is not always fixed, if we choose to we can always learn, improve and use experience. But if we put on a show and pretend to be something just to get into a relationship, it will leave one person drained from constantly pretending, and/or the other feeling deceived that the other is not who they thought they were. No-one is perfect, everyone has flaws. On top of that, people like different things so someone who is perfect for one person is pretty awful for another. It goes beyond being the best version of yourself. You seem to agree that we a capable of change - because we are. Don’t fake being cool. Become cool! But remember that cool is contextual. The coolest person in a chess tournament might feel pretty darn awkward at a fitness festival. So working on yourself in this regard is about embracing your interest and learning new skills. I notice how it’s mostly women whom give this advice. But let us be blunt: It doesn’t even mean that much, other than; be genuine, which you can still be if you redefine yourself. We are constantly changing, growing and learning. Embrace that. Yourself is not a constant.
Andy_K Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 I have noticed that men think they need the perfect recipe for a woman to fall in love with them when all they need to do is be themselves. We have men coming on here convinced they don't have a girlfriend because they're not cool enough, or because they're bald, or because they don't have a phd when all of this doesn't matter for majority of women. Men also think that if they get the recipe right, if they apply the right amount of coolness, if they get the perfect job, perfect car, perfect alpha-ness then for sure, *for sure* women will fall for them, when all this again don't mean a thing to majority of women. We are humans and we want a connection first and if that connection comes from a man with less money, less impressive job, less coolness we still will pick that man. All of us women on here can list you our boyfriend's flaws and we still picked them for boyfriends. Right... but all these guys really want is to improve their chances. More matches, better odds. They see other guys who are far more successful with women and want to work towards that. But nobody's teaching them how to make a connection, how to relate to people. The dating advice out there just sells them a list of flaws to try and eradicate, or improvements to make. So that's what they do, and then their success rate only improves marginally. Not enough. So they think they need far more of the same... 3
Iseult Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 be genuine, which you can still be if you redefine yourself. Am I the only one to see the irony in this? 2
BryanSmiley Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 In answer to the OP’s question... No...I have never felt pressure to be perfect from a women, but I have many times felt the pressure to assume traditionally “manly” traits that include, Be the emotionally strong one so she can lean on me for support Don’t shed a tear, except at a funeral or similar serious event Take her darts, without showing any sensitivity Be confident, at least most the time Have a backbone, at least most of the time What you see time and time again on this forum is that many guys are just as insecure, just as sensitive, and just as emotional as women, but feel a pressure to stuff it all in because they know it is a handicap in relationships with many women. I hate to burst your bubbles ladies, but anyone who has seen young boys, knows the male species to be quite sensitive by nature. Many of us learn to stuff it in to please you. I, for I, have it down to a science. Wise words here I think. I know a lot of marriages where the woman complains of the man not showing many emotions. But I've come to realise sometimes, some of them aren't stupid, they are doing it on purpose. I personally struggle to seperate the bolded. As in I might stand my ground on something with a girl and appear sensitive. Wen instead it sounds like you might deem it a "take her darts" scenario. It's a tricky science. Be interested as to how you differentiate on those two!
Imajerk17 Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 I have noticed that men think they need the perfect recipe for a woman to fall in love with them when all they need to do is be themselves. We have men coming on here convinced they don't have a girlfriend because they're not cool enough, or because they're bald, or because they don't have a phd when all of this doesn't matter for majority of women. Men also think that if they get the recipe right, if they apply the right amount of coolness, if they get the perfect job, perfect car, perfect alpha-ness then for sure, *for sure* women will fall for them, when all this again don't mean a thing to majority of women. We are humans and we want a connection first and if that connection comes from a man with less money, less impressive job, less coolness we still will pick that man. All of us women on here can list you our boyfriend's flaws and we still picked them for boyfriends. This is a good post @Gaeta. Here is the thing....men are logical thinkers. Also, I think it is safe to say that most men don't think of themselves as the choosers in the Mating Dance. It seems to many a man (and woman) that she is the one who gets to decide whether there will be a first, second, or third date, whether there will be a kiss, whether there will be sex (as his answer to these things is usually yes). So we end up thinking that the answer to attracting more women is what would logically make sense--be that rare guy who is near the top in terms of looks, money, social skills*. But, it hardly works. Now, I am all for Self-Improvement. Women usually aren't going home from a first date though evaluating a guy on looks, money (beyond the basics at least), how clever his jokes were, and how many countries he visited. Those things don't have much with connection, really. In fact, if you sound TOO impressive she may look at her own life and think you and she don't have much in common. It is instead more about how the two of you vibe. Sometimes it even is a matter of breaking the rule in every dating playbook and telling her a bit about your problems on the first date. (Just a bit--I don't think it's good for anyone to sound like a sad sack. But no one is perfect and expressing some flaws with your higher points may make you come across more believeable.) She may be able to relate to you, and she may open up back to you, making a connection. *(The PUA Community tends to feed into that mindset--telling guys that women won't even notice a guy unless he is either a Top-Tier Man or has really strong Game. This isn't even close to the truth, but I digress.) 1
MaleIntuition Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 (edited) Am I the only one to see the irony in this? [] Indulge me; of course you can redefine yourself, learn new skills and develope your personality. Edited January 5, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Topcial content retained and member moderated
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