She cancelled, now what?

[ZA Dater]

Ok so I set a Tinder date up for this evening (Wed) and all was well, I made sure not to over communicate with her and suchlike. All was well, now this afternoon she cancels because she has a project to complete, never mind she told me she was on holiday.

 

 

Great I say, lets reschedule to Friday, her response "well I will have to think about it".

 

 

Do I

 

 

1: Just walk away from this, I am highly inclined to do so because on the lack of enthusiasm.

2: Bend over backwards to accommodate a postponement?

 

 

The background is she is only here for 4 weeks, my thinking is she has been trawling Tinder and found someone else more appealing, which is fine but the be honest.

 

 

The other part is I don't know what I was hoping to achieve here, more and more and more I just find myself going on this aimless dates which never amount to anything because there is no real spark of connection with the person, I really TRY and go with an open mind and TRY not to benchmark people but it inevitably happens.

 

 

Probably the catch 22 here is I go on vacation soon and suddenly my days aren't filled with work anymore and I left with time to feel lonely (ok I do feel that now but I usually then just busy myself) so this 4 week story wouldn't be a bad idea. On the other hand it does seem like an attempt to patch a hold in the wall with leaves.

[olivetree]

When someone cancels without offering to reschedule, you don't offer another day.

That's her job.

You say, "ok, good luck with your project" and move on.

 

If she does end up rescheduling later, that's up to you to decide if you think she is genuine and you're still interested.

[Kelliousme]

 

Great I say, lets reschedule to Friday, her response "well I will have to think about it".

 

Definitely walk away. It sounds like she's not interested. Esp you said she said she's on holiday but has a project to complete? That sounds fishy..

[kendahke]

1

 

(ten characters)

[browzer]

When she says "I have to think about it" you say "Ok, you know how to reach me".

 

Then move on without expecting to hear from her again. If you do, then great, it's an unexpected bonus.

[RecentChange]

Walk away.

 

If she wanted to go through with the date she would have proposed some alternative days.

[GemmaUK]

No, 'tis done and over.

 

I recall reading that you weren't so into this one so it's no big loss anyway.

 

Your hols - be busy and not too available, not too much on whatever date site it is either. Randomise your timings but don't be logged in or keep logging in.

Don't give in and be too accepting.

 

Don't go lonely either though - get out, get walking, smile at randoms of any age and sex.

Are there any walking groups in your area? You love driving but you might like a walking or a cycling group too.?

[smackie9]

Walk away and onto the next!

[carhill]

OP, I'll echo what the others have advised and, additionally, suggest that you focus on social events, if wishing to mingle, during the Christmas season, presuming that's relevant in your culture/country, and take a break from the date seeking milieu. Sure, if you meet someone you like at a social event, act on that but don't spend time online setting up dates with strangers right now. Generally, most people are focused on family and friends this time of year. Great opportunity to grow social connections and meet new people out in the world if that's what you want.

 

I remember one year long ago I decided what the heck go to a different country for the holidays and I did and ended up meeting someone I nearly married. Every time I hear the title song of the movie Titanic I remember that time Make your own memories.

[Philosopher]

 

Do I

 

 

1: Just walk away from this, I am highly inclined to do so because on the lack of enthusiasm.

2: Bend over backwards to accommodate a postponement?

 

 

Definitely number one. In my years of dating if a women cancels without offering a very firm alternative time and date then it means they are not interested. Best not to waste your time on her.

[BaileyB]

Walk away.

[Dis]

Ok so I set a Tinder date up for this evening (Wed) and all was well, I made sure not to over communicate with her and suchlike.

 

You made sure not to overly communicate with her??? Did you at least check in with her a couple times?

 

If not, maybe she got turned off

 

Some women are like that

 

Either way, move on to the next

 

Better luck next time!

Edited December 14, 2017 by Disillusionment373

[mortensorchid]

Walk away.

 

Someone who says "I'll think about it" is saying "This is not a priority to me". Reply if you like with someone polite like "Ok, hope the project turned out nicely and chat in a bit". And wait to hear from her - which you will not. But don't be depressed, just move on.

[ZA Dater]

Thanks everyone!

 

 

I am going to leave this one, unless she contacts me again. Probably the best bet I have in the holiday season here is to find some tourists, or hang around those spots because quite frankly the only people friendly in the city seem to be tourists, the rest are so involved in their own cliques its impossible to get anywhere.

 

 

Sometimes I wish was the "one night" type of guy because it seems that would be easier to find.

[Jdoublenn]

Gone, baby, gone. She said she has to think about it?? How rude!! NEXT

[ZA Dater]

Kudos to the forum. Never heard from her again. Something better must have come up.

 

I think somehow I am just going have to change my expectations and wants.

[GemmaUK]

I think somehow I am just going have to change my expectations and wants.

 

Maybe this is some of the crux of it.

I was 17 when I started in the dating/relationship arena long before OLD, long before the internet

I never did have and still never have expectations of any kind.

Expectations only come in and become relevant when I have been in a relationship for some considerable time.

 

I have wants, some of which are a basis upon which I agree to meet someone, agree to a date but they are very very basic.

 

Having now been in a variety of different relationships with a variety of very different people I have a much better idea of what matters for me in relationships

 

At no point at all though did I ever go into something hoping nor thinking 'this is the one' it's trial and error, day by day, week by week.

 

One thing that I cannot rule out though as it's been a constant is that things turn out better when I pick the guy instead of him picking me right at the very beginning.

If he picks me and I go with the flow it's not going to work.

 

There are signals I give out when I see a guy and am interested and then I wait and see whether I get returned signals. I drop it if I don't get good signals in return, if I get good signals back then I give a little more but ultimately he is the pursuer and becomes it.

Those initial signals I give are fast, can be fleeting but will always be consistent at first meet of said guy. The only time those first signals will stop for me at first meeting someone will be if he behaves oddly somehow or is really very apparently awkward or something - but I mean incredibly so.

 

When I began dating and getting into relationships I didn't know this and so dated men who pursued me.

It got me relationship experience and sexual experience and much as a guy liked me he got those experiences too out of it.

 

I see you ZA seeming to want the full bit, the whole package but as yet you have no relationship experience or sexual experience and if I am honest I think you need to get some of that under your hat before seeking the perfect package for you.

It can sound like using someone - but - in all honesty early relationships were kind of about that in a way.

 

What you need is experience in relating to someone of the opposite gender one on one, sexually, emotionally, vulnerably.

 

This is going to sound wrong but I think you should try out a relationship with someone who is interested in you, more than you them.

You say you want someone who can talk about world affairs with but actually you don't know in a relationship whether other factors about a person will surprise you, you don't give it a shot and see. You might find that it's totally not what you want or need in a relationship.

 

I always advise men and women keep their eyes open and look around at all times when they are wanting to date.

There have been many more times than I can count where I have eyed a guy up and he hasn't opened his eyes and seen me or has seen me but given back a blank expression, never looked back at me again or just walked on. BTW - if he had absolutely no interest then that's perfectly fine - not everyone can find us attractive.

 

I know around 17 men who I have given initial signs to whom at the time gave me little or nothing back. Later, much later each one told me they wanted to ask me out. I gave up soon after my signals were not read or seen and it was only years later they said they had any interest.

 

Something about signals:

You've heard of preening?

This is when someone does things to make their appearance better.

I have seen many guys post on here that they are on a date and she was flicking her hair - this is THE WRONG time to take hair flicking as an indication of interest. Women flick their hair a lot through habit, hair is nice to play with, we play with it under stress, when it feels odd after using products on it, after it has been raining and just because we can. People who speak with their hands almost always tend to be people who also play more with their hair or their earrings, a necklace, adjust their sleeves - those kind of things.

 

Things like hair preening, brightening up my facial expression, straightening a shirt, adjusting a collar, breathing in to appear slimmer, straightening up posture seconds after noticing a man - that is when these things count.

When I see a guy I find attractive, once I have seen him - which will initially be a glance I will preen something or several things about me and then he gets a second look from me to see if he has noticed me also.

I can't help but preen after first seeing an attractive man. At the very least and even though I am slim I will breathe in and check my posture. If sitting I will sit up straighter.

Then, if he sees me or if I know I am in his eyeline I will move in some way too to be more noticeable - this could include a flick of the hair as my arm needs to move to do it.

If he is nearby me a little later I might reach across him or say hello to someone I know walking by (if I have either opportunity) or I might walk past his table to go fetch something if in a cafe or somewhere.where he is sitting.

If he is sitting reading a book in the park on a bench near a rubbish bin I might find some rubbish in my pocket so that I need to walk back and throw it away.

If you open your eyes and look to see if a woman is looking at you and preening or moving differently suddenly then she is highly likely attracted.

 

In turn though you can also make movements too that make you more visible to people. Don't be still, stretch an arm out to grab a leaflet as you're walking by or a napkin, preen your own hair, breathe in, straighten your shirt.

 

You have some time off work, these signs can happen anywhere ZA. Keep your eyes open, practice an amiable resting face in the mirror (which requires actual practice and getting used to it as most of us look deadpan and out right grumpy if we don't brighten our faces even when there is no facial expression)

If a woman looks at you and she is not unattractive to you take a second look.

 

If you get absolutely no looks from any women at all then something about your image needs to change.

 

Much of the above is lost when it comes to OLD as it's an unnatural way to meet people so an initial walk into a room/coffee shop or wherever is not going to be where you see any of this stuff as it's all pre-planned so almost everyone will walk in with a smile and eye contact because that is what you do when you 100% know you are about to meet someone new.

[Simple Logic]

Ok so I set a Tinder date up for this evening (Wed) and all was well, I made sure not to over communicate with her and suchlike. All was well, now this afternoon she cancels because she has a project to complete, never mind she told me she was on holiday.

 

 

Great I say, lets reschedule to Friday, her response "well I will have to think about it".

 

 

Do I

 

 

1: Just walk away from this, I am highly inclined to do so because on the lack of enthusiasm.

2: Bend over backwards to accommodate a postponement?

 

 

The background is she is only here for 4 weeks, my thinking is she has been trawling Tinder and found someone else more appealing, which is fine but the be honest.

 

 

The other part is I don't know what I was hoping to achieve here, more and more and more I just find myself going on this aimless dates which never amount to anything because there is no real spark of connection with the person, I really TRY and go with an open mind and TRY not to benchmark people but it inevitably happens.

 

 

Probably the catch 22 here is I go on vacation soon and suddenly my days aren't filled with work anymore and I left with time to feel lonely (ok I do feel that now but I usually then just busy myself) so this 4 week story wouldn't be a bad idea. On the other hand it does seem like an attempt to patch a hold in the wall with leaves.

 

She is not interested.

[ZA Dater]

Maybe this is some of the crux of it.

I was 17 when I started in the dating/relationship arena long before OLD, long before the internet

I never did have and still never have expectations of any kind.

Expectations only come in and become relevant when I have been in a relationship for some considerable time.

 

I have wants, some of which are a basis upon which I agree to meet someone, agree to a date but they are very very basic.

 

Having now been in a variety of different relationships with a variety of very different people I have a much better idea of what matters for me in relationships

 

At no point at all though did I ever go into something hoping nor thinking 'this is the one' it's trial and error, day by day, week by week.

 

One thing that I cannot rule out though as it's been a constant is that things turn out better when I pick the guy instead of him picking me right at the very beginning.

If he picks me and I go with the flow it's not going to work.

 

There are signals I give out when I see a guy and am interested and then I wait and see whether I get returned signals. I drop it if I don't get good signals in return, if I get good signals back then I give a little more but ultimately he is the pursuer and becomes it.

Those initial signals I give are fast, can be fleeting but will always be consistent at first meet of said guy. The only time those first signals will stop for me at first meeting someone will be if he behaves oddly somehow or is really very apparently awkward or something - but I mean incredibly so.

 

When I began dating and getting into relationships I didn't know this and so dated men who pursued me.

It got me relationship experience and sexual experience and much as a guy liked me he got those experiences too out of it.

 

I see you ZA seeming to want the full bit, the whole package but as yet you have no relationship experience or sexual experience and if I am honest I think you need to get some of that under your hat before seeking the perfect package for you.

It can sound like using someone - but - in all honesty early relationships were kind of about that in a way.

 

What you need is experience in relating to someone of the opposite gender one on one, sexually, emotionally, vulnerably.

 

This is going to sound wrong but I think you should try out a relationship with someone who is interested in you, more than you them.

You say you want someone who can talk about world affairs with but actually you don't know in a relationship whether other factors about a person will surprise you, you don't give it a shot and see. You might find that it's totally not what you want or need in a relationship.

 

I always advise men and women keep their eyes open and look around at all times when they are wanting to date.

There have been many more times than I can count where I have eyed a guy up and he hasn't opened his eyes and seen me or has seen me but given back a blank expression, never looked back at me again or just walked on. BTW - if he had absolutely no interest then that's perfectly fine - not everyone can find us attractive.

 

I know around 17 men who I have given initial signs to whom at the time gave me little or nothing back. Later, much later each one told me they wanted to ask me out. I gave up soon after my signals were not read or seen and it was only years later they said they had any interest.

 

Something about signals:

You've heard of preening?

This is when someone does things to make their appearance better.

I have seen many guys post on here that they are on a date and she was flicking her hair - this is THE WRONG time to take hair flicking as an indication of interest. Women flick their hair a lot through habit, hair is nice to play with, we play with it under stress, when it feels odd after using products on it, after it has been raining and just because we can. People who speak with their hands almost always tend to be people who also play more with their hair or their earrings, a necklace, adjust their sleeves - those kind of things.

 

Things like hair preening, brightening up my facial expression, straightening a shirt, adjusting a collar, breathing in to appear slimmer, straightening up posture seconds after noticing a man - that is when these things count.

When I see a guy I find attractive, once I have seen him - which will initially be a glance I will preen something or several things about me and then he gets a second look from me to see if he has noticed me also.

I can't help but preen after first seeing an attractive man. At the very least and even though I am slim I will breathe in and check my posture. If sitting I will sit up straighter.

Then, if he sees me or if I know I am in his eyeline I will move in some way too to be more noticeable - this could include a flick of the hair as my arm needs to move to do it.

If he is nearby me a little later I might reach across him or say hello to someone I know walking by (if I have either opportunity) or I might walk past his table to go fetch something if in a cafe or somewhere.where he is sitting.

If he is sitting reading a book in the park on a bench near a rubbish bin I might find some rubbish in my pocket so that I need to walk back and throw it away.

If you open your eyes and look to see if a woman is looking at you and preening or moving differently suddenly then she is highly likely attracted.

 

In turn though you can also make movements too that make you more visible to people. Don't be still, stretch an arm out to grab a leaflet as you're walking by or a napkin, preen your own hair, breathe in, straighten your shirt.

 

You have some time off work, these signs can happen anywhere ZA. Keep your eyes open, practice an amiable resting face in the mirror (which requires actual practice and getting used to it as most of us look deadpan and out right grumpy if we don't brighten our faces even when there is no facial expression)

If a woman looks at you and she is not unattractive to you take a second look.

 

If you get absolutely no looks from any women at all then something about your image needs to change.

 

Much of the above is lost when it comes to OLD as it's an unnatural way to meet people so an initial walk into a room/coffee shop or wherever is not going to be where you see any of this stuff as it's all pre-planned so almost everyone will walk in with a smile and eye contact because that is what you do when you 100% know you are about to meet someone new.

 

 

 

This is very, very good advice. Thank you for taking the time to share this, I have read it a few times.

 

 

Most of what you say makes perfect sense to me but I just never really see those signs with anyone. More so because when I go out I go with an objective in mind, be it to buy something or suchlike. I do sometimes look for signals but inevitably what catches my eye isn't single. Its actually quite timely you bring this up because walking through the mall last night I actually took time to look around to see if anyone caught my eye and maybe three people did, all walking arm in arm.

 

 

I find the bold part very interesting because I have never had that ever, ok once years ago at a wedding but that doesn't really count! Its always me trying to get them to like me.

 

 

The odd and awkward part of me are never too far away despite my best attempts to hide them, in fact and I am not proud of this there have been some dates where I pretended to be someone I am not simply to try and conform and see if that made a difference, it did in the sense the conversation flowed but bluntly the entire conversation was baseless.

 

 

My resting face is a serious one which I guess doesn't do me any favours either or make me seem especially friendly. I'd go as far as to say most people don't like me when they first meet me but given time they do end up liking me, which is like running a marathon with one leg when it comes to finding any dating success.

 

 

Your comment about finding experience is true but the sort of person who does find me attractive is completely and totally incompatible with my life, I have tried having a conversation with these people and its impossible and I really did try to find some value in the interaction.

 

 

Yesterday actually I did think about starting a random conversation with someone in the mall I thought looked nice but I looked at here, looked at myself and yes it would never work there being better choices than me. I don't shy away from the hard questions and I simply know I am not what people seem to want.

 

 

OLD is the only platform for me, yes I agree with you its completely false but the sad reality is if it weren't for OLD I would never have had any dates at all. Again I just try and drag out whatever positive I can from it but how do you performance rate yourself? Am I getting better at it or worse, how do you measure that? What should I be hoping to get out of these dates?

 

 

A lot of attraction to me is intangible, the way someone speaks, their ability to converse, their level of confidence, how they conduct themselves. I have enough extremely "pretty" people to knows

a: they aren't interested in me

b: many of them I don't find attractive either do the above.

 

 

Now I am going to try and I mean really try not to offend anyone, if you are I apologise in advance. The sort of person who finds me attractive is not someone I find attractive on any level whatsoever. What doesn't help here is there are times I do get to spend time with people I do like and I enjoy myself but at the end of the day they go home to bf's and I go home to nothing.

 

 

What irritated me about lady who cancelled was we got on well via text BUT you know what I am realistic, someone better looking and with more to offer probably rocked up on the scene, so the outcome was seemingly inevitable.

 

 

What you say about language and preening is enlightening and backed up by some reading I did but where I am struggling is where to find people and ok so by some immense miracle I actually manage to utter two words or by an even bigger miracle she speaks to me (never happened ever) then what? Its not like I am super eager to jump into bed and get shown up as a 33yo with no experience. What do I do with this person? Which is why for all the messed up part of it my friendship with K works well, we work on events, we go to the events, we enjoy the events, we will go to the odd lunch/breakfast just the two of us but there is always something to talk about and there is that commonality and she takes an interest in me.

 

 

I am trying so hard to find any sort of commonality to try and replicate that, if I had that sure, I wouldn't feel so bad looking stupid because once that's over there would be that commonality/common interest.

 

 

This is what I am trying to convey, people don't show any interest in me at all, absolutely nothing, I go to these dates and its one way traffic to the point where I am starting to think there is a lot of merit in guys who simply just sleep around and do nothing else. Its hard to figure out what benefit I am deriving from meeting these people.

 

 

Take last night, matched with someone else, tried to meet them on the same day, great they said, cool, only to get told "oh I have met another guy and he is taking me out".

 

 

But you are right OLD is a lot of garbage but for me its all I know.

 

 

I'll go out and see if anyone looks at me but again what do I do with them?

[SevenCity]

Understand dating for women is VASTLY different than dating for guys. As a man, you will put in 10 times the effort than a woman of the same looks.

 

It’s also not good practice to take advice from one woman as gospel. Women are complicated and have very different approaches.

 

I’ll give you two recent examples from OLD:

 

Girl #1 responded to my message. After some back and forth she enthusiastically threw her number at me and we met for dinner. After the dinner I was fingering her in her car and she was making plans to come out to me the following weekend to have sex and showed disappointment that night that we were far away from either of our places. I let that fizzle because she ended up being larger than I prefer (I like thin chicks).

 

Girl #2 reaches out to me on OLD and we met for a drink. She texted me saying she forgot what I looked like as I was waiting for her. As I was getting ready to walk she showed up. She was combative and rude so I threw it back at her never expecting to see her again. Then she calls me, ends up coming over and we had pretty great sex. This went on for a few weeks until she dumped me because we were too different. I say “Ok, good luck and take care”She calls me a couple days later saying how much she misses me so I invite her over and we have sex. Now she is constantly blowing up my phone wanting to see me while also saying she didn’t want to see me after the first date.

 

The point is if I went by a playbook I would have missed out on #2. Not looking at that as long term but it’s fun for now.

 

The best advice I can give as a guy is act as if you are a catch and you have options (even if you don’t). Most women won’t like you, some will. And those that do don’t always give clear signals.

 

It’s important to date a lot of women or you run the risk of falling for the first one you sleep with. That is a recipe for disaster. Especially on OLD, don’t get excited over a message or a date or even sex. When I first started (1.5 years ago) I thought the women on there were genuine and really looking for someone to have a relationship. Many (most) of the ones I have met were broken or severely dysfunctional and have many valid reasons why they are single. A lot are also on there to feed their ego with no intention of ever meeting.

 

Personally I’ve given up hope of finding something long term on OLD but I guess it can happen for some.

 

Remember, it’s a numbers game and you have to get though the flakes, stand ups, and cancellations to find ones that are high interest. Even if they are interested does not mean they are a good match.

[ZA Dater]

Understand dating for women is VASTLY different than dating for guys. As a man, you will put in 10 times the effort than a woman of the same looks.

 

It’s also not good practice to take advice from one woman as gospel. Women are complicated and have very different approaches.

 

I’ll give you two recent examples from OLD:

 

Girl #1 responded to my message. After some back and forth she enthusiastically threw her number at me and we met for dinner. After the dinner I was fingering her in her car and she was making plans to come out to me the following weekend to have sex and showed disappointment that night that we were far away from either of our places. I let that fizzle because she ended up being larger than I prefer (I like thin chicks).

 

Girl #2 reaches out to me on OLD and we met for a drink. She texted me saying she forgot what I looked like as I was waiting for her. As I was getting ready to walk she showed up. She was combative and rude so I threw it back at her never expecting to see her again. Then she calls me, ends up coming over and we had pretty great sex. This went on for a few weeks until she dumped me because we were too different. I say “Ok, good luck and take care”She calls me a couple days later saying how much she misses me so I invite her over and we have sex. Now she is constantly blowing up my phone wanting to see me while also saying she didn’t want to see me after the first date.

 

The point is if I went by a playbook I would have missed out on #2. Not looking at that as long term but it’s fun for now.

 

The best advice I can give as a guy is act as if you are a catch and you have options (even if you don’t). Most women won’t like you, some will. And those that do don’t always give clear signals.

 

It’s important to date a lot of women or you run the risk of falling for the first one you sleep with. That is a recipe for disaster. Especially on OLD, don’t get excited over a message or a date or even sex. When I first started (1.5 years ago) I thought the women on there were genuine and really looking for someone to have a relationship. Many (most) of the ones I have met were broken or severely dysfunctional and have many valid reasons why they are single. A lot are also on there to feed their ego with no intention of ever meeting.

 

Personally I’ve given up hope of finding something long term on OLD but I guess it can happen for some.

 

Remember, it’s a numbers game and you have to get though the flakes, stand ups, and cancellations to find ones that are high interest. Even if they are interested does not mean they are a good match.

 

Good points. I have been on OLD for ten years and yeh no real successes to speak of. Potential but not success. Barring one person none really seemed to want me in "you are attractive".

 

I don't think it's numbers solely. It's a great deal of luck!

[GemmaUK]

This is very, very good advice. Thank you for taking the time to share this, I have read it a few times.

 

 

Most of what you say makes perfect sense to me but I just never really see those signs with anyone. More so because when I go out I go with an objective in mind, be it to buy something or suchlike. I do sometimes look for signals but inevitably what catches my eye isn't single. Its actually quite timely you bring this up because walking through the mall last night I actually took time to look around to see if anyone caught my eye and maybe three people did, all walking arm in arm.

That's because you're not opening your eyes and looking around.

You are looking around for attractive but not looking enough to spot those who find you attractive.

The other possibility is that you actually look for attractive women who ae coupled up so that you have another excuse not to do anything.

You are very good at 'excuses not to' for just about anything.

 

I find the bold part very interesting because I have never had that ever, ok once years ago at a wedding but that doesn't really count! Its always me trying to get them to like me.

I don't know why you think it doesn't count. It does count. It means that you do promote interest and if you are alert enough you can see it too. What did you do when this happened?

 

The odd and awkward part of me are never too far away despite my best attempts to hide them, in fact and I am not proud of this there have been some dates where I pretended to be someone I am not simply to try and conform and see if that made a difference, it did in the sense the conversation flowed but bluntly the entire conversation was baseless.

First off, always be yourself, be your best self but be yourself.

The awkward I am talking about is I like him , he looks good..and then he..gives the dog he is walking a harsh whack, shouts at the waitstaff, falls over drunk - these are what I mean by awkward.

 

 

My resting face is a serious one which I guess doesn't do me any favours either or make me seem especially friendly. I'd go as far as to say most people don't like me when they first meet me but given time they do end up liking me, which is like running a marathon with one leg when it comes to finding any dating success.

Get the thought that you look serious out of your mind, you most likely looked tired, miserable or even angry.

So get yourself a small shaving mirror or a fold up mirror and put it by your pc or in your pocket to remind you to check out your resting face and start learning to use your facial muscles to create a pleasant looking resting face.

Every single time you go to the bathroom look in the mirror with your normal resting face and practice lifting it to a pleasant one.

This doesn't mean you are smiling - the expression is not a smile, just a brighter and more alert look. It's only subtle, you should not look startled.

You can practice this all the time, working, watching tv but you need a mirror and to learn which muscles to use to begin with so that you learn the muscles to use.

 

Your comment about finding experience is true but the sort of person who does find me attractive is completely and totally incompatible with my life, I have tried having a conversation with these people and its impossible and I really did try to find some value in the interaction.

I really think you need to stop thinking long term as that is how it comes across. You need experience in dating, being in a relationship and being flirty and sexual with women who are interested in going there with you.

I suspect the incompatible with my life part in your mind is that they like to drink. If the only women who like you are the falling over drunk every weekend type then go for someone older who cannot sustain that, maybe even an older woman who is willing to train you up in an FWB type situation.

I know so many men who have done this when staring out to simply get experience - heck - even my brother did it back in his twenties! Good for him!

 

Yesterday actually I did think about starting a random conversation with someone in the mall I thought looked nice but I looked at here, looked at myself and yes it would never work there being better choices than me. I don't shy away from the hard questions and I simply know I am not what people seem to want.

I have told you so many times that until you change your behaviour your attitude won't change.

Do you understand that or not?

For helpful, positive advice on here you have a pattern of coming back with an excuse, several excuses.

When you get a reply which comes across putting the entire fault down to the female of the species or is even hugely misogynistic and bitter you fall into line with that extremely happily.

If you really are of that mindset then you need to prepare for a life of simgledom or a life where you will never sustain several dates let alone a relationship with a woman who has a modicum of intelligence. She will sniff you out unless you are a very good actor and can sustain the act

 

OLD is the only platform for me,

You don't know this until you start to make some effort and stop making excuses for making any effort.

 

yes I agree with you its completely false but the sad reality is if it weren't for OLD I would never have had any dates at all.

You might have been happily married with several little ones running around if you had reciprocated to the woman at the wedding who showed interest in you. So, sorry, you can't say you would have never had any dates.

Plus you have already said you go out and about with an intention of buying something or whatever mission is at hand and only think about that- likely with your serious face on (translate as tired, miserable, angry face on - however it comes across) without opening your eyes.

Any time you are out and about and not in a place where you are solitary or just amongst men is an opportunity to meet someone.

 

Again I just try and drag out whatever positive I can from it but how do you performance rate yourself? Am I getting better at it or worse, how do you measure that? What should I be hoping to get out of these dates?

Your current performance rating is low.

Same as with work, if something you're doing over and over is not getting the result you want you change the way you do it don't you? Or do you just make an excuse for it, therefore disclaiming any responsibility towards the task constantly failing and continue on with it regardless.

 

A lot of attraction to me is intangible, the way someone speaks, their ability to converse, their level of confidence, how they conduct themselves. I have enough extremely "pretty" people to knows

a: they aren't interested in me

b: many of them I don't find attractive either do the above.

This is a pretty unintelligible paragraph, I have read it several times and I think I get the gist.

It's the same for us all, you simply and swiftly move on from those who are not interested in you and don't date those you have zero attraction in any way for. If you are attracted to personality but not so much in looks to what do you really have to lose though over dating someone who likes you - even just to get dating experience?

 

Now I am going to try and I mean really try not to offend anyone, if you are I apologise in advance. The sort of person who finds me attractive is not someone I find attractive on any level whatsoever. What doesn't help here is there are times I do get to spend time with people I do like and I enjoy myself but at the end of the day they go home to bf's and I go home to nothing.

Do you ever find out if they are single before you invest time with those who go home to a partner?

 

What irritated me about lady who cancelled was we got on well via text BUT you know what I am realistic, someone better looking and with more to offer probably rocked up on the scene, so the outcome was seemingly inevitable.

So here, you're blaming either her or potential other men whom you don't know even existed for her cancellation.

She most likely cancelled because you weren't getting on so well as you thought, maybe she cancelled because you never called her. I wouldn't meet a guy without a call first.

Type out the entire mail and text conversation for us - let us see how it panned out along with dates and times.

 

What you say about language and preening is enlightening and backed up by some reading I did but where I am struggling is where to find people and ok so by some immense miracle I actually manage to utter two words or by an even bigger miracle she speaks to me (never happened ever) then what? Its not like I am super eager to jump into bed and get shown up as a 33yo with no experience. What do I do with this person? Which is why for all the messed up part of it my friendship with K works well, we work on events, we go to the events, we enjoy the events, we will go to the odd lunch/breakfast just the two of us but there is always something to talk about and there is that commonality and she takes an interest in me.

K (whom I have a very vague memory about) is a friend, nothing more and she never will be. I am sure that at the time you had a thing for K people advised you to move on.

It is your own fault that you haven't and until you do you will always compare everyone to her because you still have a thing for her.

You have spent too much time in her company and you need to be realistic about it and know that until you quit this friendship (because it isn't really that for you) you will never truely have time to fit anyone else into your mind.

K does not want to date you, sleep with you or be in a relationship with you.

 

I am trying so hard to find any sort of commonality to try and replicate that, if I had that sure, I wouldn't feel so bad looking stupid because once that's over there would be that commonality/common interest.

There you are - comparing.

 

This is what I am trying to convey, people don't show any interest in me at all, absolutely nothing, I go to these dates and its one way traffic to the point where I am starting to think there is a lot of merit in guys who simply just sleep around and do nothing else. Its hard to figure out what benefit I am deriving from meeting these people.

You haven't even tried yet to brighten your face, you haven't opened your eyes, you haven't tried anything other than OLD yet.

You are getting no benefit from meeting these people via a method which continually fails for you.

The common denominator is you.

You love to say it's a numbers game and down to luck.

It's not in SO MANY WAYS.

Like I said earlier, at work, do you continue to complete a task over and over which does not get the result you want or a better result?

You do with dating though don't you.

You don't change anything up, you listen a little bit and think about it, find an excuse for it and bingo - you're happy again as you don't have to do anything in order to fail and all is well in your world again.

 

I'll go out and see if anyone looks at me but again what do I do with them?

Try looking back at them, try smiling, try saying hello, start a conversation, compliment her, flirt, ask for her number.

Don't expect miracles, don't have expectations, don't expect to get a look from a woman every time or every 7 times you go out.

 

Step one though is for you to move on from K.

[ZA Dater]

That's because you're not opening your eyes and looking around.

You are looking around for attractive but not looking enough to spot those who find you attractive.

The other possibility is that you actually look for attractive women who ae coupled up so that you have another excuse not to do anything.

You are very good at 'excuses not to' for just about anything.

 

 

I don't know why you think it doesn't count. It does count. It means that you do promote interest and if you are alert enough you can see it too. What did you do when this happened?

 

 

First off, always be yourself, be your best self but be yourself.

The awkward I am talking about is I like him , he looks good..and then he..gives the dog he is walking a harsh whack, shouts at the waitstaff, falls over drunk - these are what I mean by awkward.

 

 

 

Get the thought that you look serious out of your mind, you most likely looked tired, miserable or even angry.

So get yourself a small shaving mirror or a fold up mirror and put it by your pc or in your pocket to remind you to check out your resting face and start learning to use your facial muscles to create a pleasant looking resting face.

Every single time you go to the bathroom look in the mirror with your normal resting face and practice lifting it to a pleasant one.

This doesn't mean you are smiling - the expression is not a smile, just a brighter and more alert look. It's only subtle, you should not look startled.

You can practice this all the time, working, watching tv but you need a mirror and to learn which muscles to use to begin with so that you learn the muscles to use.

 

 

I really think you need to stop thinking long term as that is how it comes across. You need experience in dating, being in a relationship and being flirty and sexual with women who are interested in going there with you.

I suspect the incompatible with my life part in your mind is that they like to drink. If the only women who like you are the falling over drunk every weekend type then go for someone older who cannot sustain that, maybe even an older woman who is willing to train you up in an FWB type situation.

I know so many men who have done this when staring out to simply get experience - heck - even my brother did it back in his twenties! Good for him!

 

 

I have told you so many times that until you change your behaviour your attitude won't change.

Do you understand that or not?

For helpful, positive advice on here you have a pattern of coming back with an excuse, several excuses.

When you get a reply which comes across putting the entire fault down to the female of the species or is even hugely misogynistic and bitter you fall into line with that extremely happily.

If you really are of that mindset then you need to prepare for a life of simgledom or a life where you will never sustain several dates let alone a relationship with a woman who has a modicum of intelligence. She will sniff you out unless you are a very good actor and can sustain the act

 

 

You don't know this until you start to make some effort and stop making excuses for making any effort.

 

 

You might have been happily married with several little ones running around if you had reciprocated to the woman at the wedding who showed interest in you. So, sorry, you can't say you would have never had any dates.

Plus you have already said you go out and about with an intention of buying something or whatever mission is at hand and only think about that- likely with your serious face on (translate as tired, miserable, angry face on - however it comes across) without opening your eyes.

Any time you are out and about and not in a place where you are solitary or just amongst men is an opportunity to meet someone.

 

 

Your current performance rating is low.

Same as with work, if something you're doing over and over is not getting the result you want you change the way you do it don't you? Or do you just make an excuse for it, therefore disclaiming any responsibility towards the task constantly failing and continue on with it regardless.

 

 

This is a pretty unintelligible paragraph, I have read it several times and I think I get the gist.

It's the same for us all, you simply and swiftly move on from those who are not interested in you and don't date those you have zero attraction in any way for. If you are attracted to personality but not so much in looks to what do you really have to lose though over dating someone who likes you - even just to get dating experience?

 

 

Do you ever find out if they are single before you invest time with those who go home to a partner?

 

 

So here, you're blaming either her or potential other men whom you don't know even existed for her cancellation.

She most likely cancelled because you weren't getting on so well as you thought, maybe she cancelled because you never called her. I wouldn't meet a guy without a call first.

Type out the entire mail and text conversation for us - let us see how it panned out along with dates and times.

 

 

K (whom I have a very vague memory about) is a friend, nothing more and she never will be. I am sure that at the time you had a thing for K people advised you to move on.

It is your own fault that you haven't and until you do you will always compare everyone to her because you still have a thing for her.

You have spent too much time in her company and you need to be realistic about it and know that until you quit this friendship (because it isn't really that for you) you will never truely have time to fit anyone else into your mind.

K does not want to date you, sleep with you or be in a relationship with you.

 

 

There you are - comparing.

 

 

You haven't even tried yet to brighten your face, you haven't opened your eyes, you haven't tried anything other than OLD yet.

You are getting no benefit from meeting these people via a method which continually fails for you.

The common denominator is you.

You love to say it's a numbers game and down to luck.

It's not in SO MANY WAYS.

Like I said earlier, at work, do you continue to complete a task over and over which does not get the result you want or a better result?

You do with dating though don't you.

You don't change anything up, you listen a little bit and think about it, find an excuse for it and bingo - you're happy again as you don't have to do anything in order to fail and all is well in your world again.

 

 

Try looking back at them, try smiling, try saying hello, start a conversation, compliment her, flirt, ask for her number.

Don't expect miracles, don't have expectations, don't expect to get a look from a woman every time or every 7 times you go out.

 

Step one though is for you to move on from K.

 

 

Not really going to happen because a friend is better than nothing at all. At the get the value of enjoying spending time with her which is more than I can say for any of these OLD dates where frankly I get no value at all because the effort I make it get to know them isn't reciprocated.

 

 

The wedding girl didn't even live in SA so what she wanted was pretty clear, she had no date for the wedding and nor did I. I didn't find her attractive either, then again compared to what has followed she is a beauty queen.

 

 

 

The resting face has me curious, drop me a PM and I will send you a picture of my face, you can be the judge. Expressionless was an insult passed at me a few years ago.

 

 

I do not find those who find me attractive, attractive at all. I cant do anything with them, I cant take them to lunches, I cant take them to functions because they do not fit in and yes they all aspire to go to those sort of things I cannot and will not take someone there who is going to embarrass me. So while I lament going on my own (for example 9/10 wont even know what lament means) I'd rather do that than take someone wholly unsuitable. Unless your suggestion is I somehow find them attractive enough to sleep with? Which I don't.

 

 

You forget one thing, the economics here in Africa, I can find someone realty easily if I scrape the bottom of the barrel and play basic economics but that isn't me, I'd rather actually help that person try and get onto the road where they want to be, than to take advantage of the fact I might have things they aspire to have.

 

 

You say that, I do try smile at people, I do try relax, I do try make eye contact, in fact last night I went out to an extremely busy place and did exactly all of those things, so you cannot say I don't act on advice, because that's not true at all. I had absolutely no response at all last night.

 

 

For me there is a huge difference with work, I work hard, I work long hours and eventually I see some reward, some sign of improvement, the numbers look a bit better, the entity starts to do better and I can see something for those hours. Dating, I changed my look, I change my dress sense, I tried to be less shy, I went out with people I didn't like hoping I did, I tried to be more open, tried to be less introverted and really its got me very little.

 

 

You are preaching to the converted when it comes to changing methods of doing things but I know how I come across best and its in the written word, perhaps its this disparity (again I have used this word on a date and got a blank stare back) that probably leads to it all falling apart.

 

 

I am going to compare everyone to K yes because for once I have someone interested enough to ask me things about me and take an interest in me, nobody else has ever bothered to do that. She openly verbally motivates me to be better at certain things and be less shy.

 

 

As for why the person cancelled, its pretty clear something better came up, from meeting up to "oh I have a project due" despite her being on holiday to "oh I will see about Friday and let you know". The classic hallmarks of "something better", which is fine but then at least have the honesty to say so.

 

 

The self thing you accuse me of not doing is something I have done for years, that being to look around me and observe and its quite telling what I see and how I perceive things to be. How do you garner interest in a shopping mall, I have no idea, doesn't seem to lend itself to picking people up. "But you must go to a club", sure but we already know MY problem them and a lack of acceptance of that.

 

 

I am really not making any excuse here because ultimately the buck stops with me and clearly its me who is the problem. Ultimately I thought this person might be nice, especially as she isn't here for too long so it would have been a nice experience but I started to gather a liking towards partying and when I dropped the signature line " I don't drink and don't really like clubs" the entire thing fell flat like it always does.

 

 

I'd like to ask how many people here dated people they didn't like to gain experience, I would be curious to know.

[GemmaUK]

You have been hankering for K for years.

If you don't mentally move on how do you expect to be ready to date?

Do you expect a new woman you meet to just put up with the fact you're in (unrequited) love with K and have her on a pedestal and be OK with that?

 

Saying you are expressionless was not an insult. That was a critique of something they had noticed about you after observing you.

If you are expressionless or the only other expression you have on a date or when meeting people is a smile you will look like you are not a person someone can engage with.

Did you ever go back and ask K or more importantly the couple who set you up with her what it was that put her off you, the advice given in your first thread? Maybe you should.

 

As far as this lady goes, you have said loads of times you'd compromise on partying, sounds like she wasn't going to be around for long anyway, you could have given it a shot just for a few weeks.

 

I think you would be surprised at the amount of people who dated or had sex with people just to get experience.

You can put me down as one who has.

[Jdoublenn]

PS. Just because she cancelled and disappeared DOES NOT mean there was someone else. You need to get that insecurity out of your head thinking some “other guy” is always coming in and swooping the women away.

 

Sometimes people just lose interest. Especially where OLD is concerned.