Another date

[ZA Dater]

....Another flop.

 

 

This one seemed ostensibly ok when chatting but once again when I met up with her it was once again a huge disappointment.

 

 

The common pattern of no real conversational common ground once again reared its ugly head, it was as if we had said everything we could say via text and there was nothing to talk about in person, the result of this was me having to make small talk.

 

 

Thankfully this was not another dinner but once again its "why don't you drink coffee", "why don't you drink alcohol". I fail to see how relevant those questions are and with each answer I could see her becoming ever less interested.

 

 

Has the world really become that conformist?

 

 

I will say this a coffee date worked better than the my usual default dinner date but the result was really just more of the same.

 

 

After this one I really tried to think why I actually cant seem to find anyone I really like, all I am doing on these dates is trying to like people don't really like that much from the beginning in the hope some numbers based theory the person might be more likeable in person. In other words I am giving them the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

I am thinking I need to change approach and simply rather not go out with people I don't really like from the off, of course the problem with that is if I did that I wouldn't really go out with anyone because the people I really find attractive on Tinder don't match with me.

 

 

Cold approaches don't work with me and I have had offers "come to a party with me and meet girls" but I don't work in that environment at all because I don't really ever relax and again no drinking becomes a big issue in that environment.

[sdraw108]

I'm afraid this is just how OLD is and you're already aware of the answer: it's a numbers game. I've done OLD on and off for about 12 years and this has always been my experience.

 

Have you considered speed dating? It's kind of a middle ground. No need to approach girls, no need to waste lots of time on someone when it's going nowhere, and no need to fight for the attention of (and fail to get it) those attractive girls.

 

I've never tried it personally but have heard good things about it from people I know who have done it.

[basil67]

Thankfully this was not another dinner but once again its "why don't you drink coffee", "why don't you drink alcohol". I fail to see how relevant those questions are and with each answer I could see her becoming ever less interested.

 

 

Has the world really become that conformist?

 

As someone who's never used any illegal drugs, I get asked this question too. My answer "I've never felt the desire to".

 

I think the world is probably less conformist now than it's ever been. Or at least, my part of the world is. The questions people ask when they find someone who's a bit different come from simple curiosity. Their questions are because they are surprised.

 

But I can also understand someone becoming disinterested if they aren't finding a match in vices. I would not expect someone who enjoys sharing a bong to be particularly interested in me. Nor would I be rushing in with someone who wouldn't share a bottle of wine with me over dinner on a Saturday night. It's nice to have someone to share a vice with. That said, I imagine it would be very nice to have someone who doesn't have a particular vice to share the same lack of vice with. Someone who 'gets it'.

[elaine567]

Guys like you looking for women, since time immemorial have used "Dutch courage" to help them relax, become more sociable and it has allowed them to talk to girls, have sex and get experience.

Alcohol is a social lubricant. It lowers the inhibitions and gives people "permission" to get closer physically. The lady who arrived for your date a little squiffy, if i remember rightly actually kissed you. Had she been stone cold sober she would never have been so forward. Yes, you can go on some moral crusade but people dating often need a push and a little alcohol gives them that push.

Alcohol can often be a short cut into getting to know someone. It loosens the tongue, relaxes the body and opens up a sense of camaraderie.

 

You are not naturally relaxed and open, so doubt you are as stiff as a board and who really wants to get close to that?

 

Coffee is another, the coffee culture has allowed people to hang out in relaxed surroundings drinking coffee, talking about coffee, and discussing the world in general as it pertains to them.

Small talk maybe but it is how the world revolves and after a while, small talk can develop into more as we get to know people and what makes them tick.

 

By turning your back on all social lubricants, many women will categorise you as an odd ball. Great if you had the confidence and strength to turn round and say "My body is a temple and I prefer water" - End of story, Full stop! - but you seem to be mired in repeated questions from women I guess who smell a rat.

I guess you are "apologising" for your choices and are thus always on the back foot.

 

I am not suggesting anyone become a alcoholic or a drunken lout, but a little alcohol in the right places, would have no doubt solved many of your issues a long time ago...

[act00]

I have dated a few non-drinkers, and even vegetarians. It's not a major issue, but as a lifestyle, these things don't mesh and one wonders how it will work long-term. I'm not a heavy drinker, but to have wine (other beverage) when we go out or stay in is nice. Not necessary, but it's a social lubricant, and enjoyable.

 

One thing, if I recall, is you state you only drink water. I've been out with plenty of men who don't drink coffee. Big deal. They get something else on a date. The couple dates I've been on (meet for a drink, alcohol or non, coffee, whatever), if they only drink water, it really has an aura of not really wanting to be there. Just a freebie water, escape fast. Surely there have to be other beverages of which you can sip and enjoy while getting to know your date (even if the intent is to get out fast, after meeting). The last coffee date I went on, he got some juice-something, and I went after coffee, decaf.

 

Is my memory correct that you only drink water? Maybe you can rethink this? Appearances and first impressions are huge on that first date, and water, for me, really feels "uninterested and uninvested." Strange, maybe, but just tossing this out there.

 

I have nothing to offer on the silence and having to carry a conversation. That is no fun. You could rehash some of your previous talks and expand on them. "So you said you have 2 sisters and 1 brother, right. Where are you, first, second?" Talk about some crazy childhood antics.

[clia]

There are tons of people who don't drink alcohol. A quick and dirty Google search tells me over half the people in your country do not drink alcohol. So, you are hardly alone or non-conformist by not drinking. You are apparently just seeking out the wrong people.

 

Thankfully this was not another dinner but once again its "why don't you drink coffee", "why don't you drink alcohol". I fail to see how relevant those questions are and with each answer I could see her becoming ever less interested.

 

It's a lifestyle compatibility thing, one more thing to bond over, so it is perfectly relevant when seeking out a partner. My husband and I both love wine and coffee shops. I can't really imagine being with a guy who didn't drink either. However, I have friends who are with guys who don't drink and it works fine for them.

 

I will say this a coffee date worked better than the my usual default dinner date but the result was really just more of the same.

 

Since you don't drink coffee, what did you order on the coffee date?

 

It seems like you could avoid some of these problems by stating in your OLD profile that you do not drink alcohol. And if you meet someone in person (at a party or whatever), just own it. I really don't think twice when I meet someone who doesn't drink because I can totally understand why someone might make that choice. But I think you are likely making it weird and/or apologizing for it.

[ZA Dater]

As someone who's never used any illegal drugs, I get asked this question too. My answer "I've never felt the desire to".

 

I think the world is probably less conformist now than it's ever been. Or at least, my part of the world is. The questions people ask when they find someone who's a bit different come from simple curiosity. Their questions are because they are surprised.

 

But I can also understand someone becoming disinterested if they aren't finding a match in vices. I would not expect someone who enjoys sharing a bong to be particularly interested in me. Nor would I be rushing in with someone who wouldn't share a bottle of wine with me over dinner on a Saturday night. It's nice to have someone to share a vice with. That said, I imagine it would be very nice to have someone who doesn't have a particular vice to share the same lack of vice with. Someone who 'gets it'.

 

 

The bold part I have had OFTEN as a complete deal breaker. I think going forward before I meet them I am going to mention the no drinking and if its an issue then so be it.

[ZA Dater]

Guys like you looking for women, since time immemorial have used "Dutch courage" to help them relax, become more sociable and it has allowed them to talk to girls, have sex and get experience.

Alcohol is a social lubricant. It lowers the inhibitions and gives people "permission" to get closer physically. The lady who arrived for your date a little squiffy, if i remember rightly actually kissed you. Had she been stone cold sober she would never have been so forward. Yes, you can go on some moral crusade but people dating often need a push and a little alcohol gives them that push.

Alcohol can often be a short cut into getting to know someone. It loosens the tongue, relaxes the body and opens up a sense of camaraderie.

 

You are not naturally relaxed and open, so doubt you are as stiff as a board and who really wants to get close to that?

Coffee is another, the coffee culture has allowed people to hang out in relaxed surroundings drinking coffee, talking about coffee, and discussing the world in general as it pertains to them.

Small talk maybe but it is how the world revolves and after a while, small talk can develop into more as we get to know people and what makes them tick.

 

By turning your back on all social lubricants, many women will categorise you as an odd ball. Great if you had the confidence and strength to turn round and say "My body is a temple and I prefer water" - End of story, Full stop! - but you seem to be mired in repeated questions from women I guess who smell a rat.

I guess you are "apologising" for your choices and are thus always on the back foot.

 

I am not suggesting anyone become a alcoholic or a drunken lout, but a little alcohol in the right places, would have no doubt solved many of your issues a long time ago...

 

 

 

1: She did and she probably would have done a lot more than that I had not felt so awkward and shy.

2: Maybe, I try consciously work on this but point taken, might be true and was pointed out to me a few years ago hence me working on it.

3: Yeh odd balls don't get very far as I discovered and yes I do actually own it but that answer doesn't really cut it 99% of the time, "but why", "but why" it become incessant and immediately the whole tone of the date changes.

 

 

In this instance on this particular date it was just we had nothing in common in person. I suspected it might not work based on the interaction but thought maybe in person it might.

 

 

Again I suppose its back to the drawing board and trying to find out how to find a modicum of success at this, back to observing guys who do get it right and trying to apply some of that to me. Friend of mine has incredible success but he is outgoing, drinks, parties and has no issue finding people at all.

 

 

The plus side is I think I am more relaxed even though my interest waned probably within 15 minutes because there wasn't enough to keep me interested.

[ZA Dater]

There are tons of people who don't drink alcohol. A quick and dirty Google search tells me over half the people in your country do not drink alcohol. So, you are hardly alone or non-conformist by not drinking. You are apparently just seeking out the wrong people.

 

 

 

It's a lifestyle compatibility thing, one more thing to bond over, so it is perfectly relevant when seeking out a partner. My husband and I both love wine and coffee shops. I can't really imagine being with a guy who didn't drink either. However, I have friends who are with guys who don't drink and it works fine for them.

 

 

 

Since you don't drink coffee, what did you order on the coffee date?

 

It seems like you could avoid some of these problems by stating in your OLD profile that you do not drink alcohol. And if you meet someone in person (at a party or whatever), just own it. I really don't think twice when I meet someone who doesn't drink because I can totally understand why someone might make that choice. But I think you are likely making it weird and/or apologizing for it.

 

 

 

Still bottled water most of the time.

 

 

Using Tinder as a primary dating site, the rest simply don't work for me here at all. The pool of people, some have been on the site for close to a decade (I have been on that long) and there is just nobody appealing.

 

 

I know the that the no drinking is a problem a lady friend of mine has told me as much and it totally destroyed my chances with at least 2 people I did like. As someone said, its considered normal to sit down to dinner with wine and well if you don't then seems tickets to you.

[kortz]

If you aren't keen on someone or don't hit it off from the start, don't bother going on a date with them!

 

Why don't cold approaches work with you? In my experience the best people you can find are out in the real world and not on tinder or an app. If you suck at cold approaching ask yourself why....

 

Are you nervous about approaching women? if so work on building your confidence and self image then get out there are practice. The internet is full of tips and help on how to get through this step but you will only become comfortable with it the more you do it.

 

If you're ok approaching but have trouble closing then again the internet has plenty of advise on this, but it also comes down to practice.

 

Remember, no risk no reward. There is no real risk signing up to tinder, but as you're seeing there is very little reward. There is a risk of rejection when cold approaching, but the reward is much more worthwhile as you might meet someone who isn't a flaky tinder person.

[ZA Dater]

If you aren't keen on someone or don't hit it off from the start, don't bother going on a date with them!

 

Why don't cold approaches work with you? In my experience the best people you can find are out in the real world and not on tinder or an app. If you suck at cold approaching ask yourself why....

 

Are you nervous about approaching women? if so work on building your confidence and self image then get out there are practice. The internet is full of tips and help on how to get through this step but you will only become comfortable with it the more you do it.

 

If you're ok approaching but have trouble closing then again the internet has plenty of advise on this, but it also comes down to practice.

 

Remember, no risk no reward. There is no real risk signing up to tinder, but as you're seeing there is very little reward. There is a risk of rejection when cold approaching, but the reward is much more worthwhile as you might meet someone who isn't a flaky tinder person.

 

 

 

Well I don't really go out much so cold approaching wont really work, unlike many I don't have sporting interests, music interest etc. so am bit unsure where I would do cold approaches. Sure, I sit in a café and see someone nice looking but logic simply dictates that she wont be single.

 

 

You could say I am nervous and indifferent at the same time, in my experience cold approaching is the fastest way to get rejected if you have nothing to offer when judged against others. The short of it is I cant strike up conversations with random people.

 

 

Other guys seem to do ok on Tinder and apps. I have pretty much resorted to apps my entire dating "career" simply because I have never managed the alternative.

 

 

I suppose the definition of insanity is doing the same thing hoping for a different outcome.

[sdraw108]

It's a bit silly to avoid approaching a girl on the basis that "logic dictates she's not single". Clearly it is not the case that every girl you ever come across is taken. Not approaching because you are nervous is one thing, but inventing reasons not to is just pointless.

 

What are your interests? It's fine if you don't like certain things (sports, music, alcohol), but you need to have something. Nobody wants to date someone who has got zero going on in his life.

[ZA Dater]

It's a bit silly to avoid approaching a girl on the basis that "logic dictates she's not single". Clearly it is not the case that every girl you ever come across is taken. Not approaching because you are nervous is one thing, but inventing reasons not to is just pointless.

 

What are your interests? It's fine if you don't like certain things (sports, music, alcohol), but you need to have something. Nobody wants to date someone who has got zero going on in his life.

 

 

 

I have lots going on, just that lots doesn't really capture the imagination of most. I am pretty driven at where I want to go and the things I am doing to get there. Think:, writing, politics, cars, numbers, business, outdoors and current affairs.

 

 

At this point someone will tell me to join a hiking group....

 

 

Oh well after this date, perhaps the next one will be better...looking ahead is the best course of action.

[smackie9]

Try church..............

[Peachland]

ZA,

I’m not sure what the problem is. I go on coffee dates and I don’t drink coffee. I’ll have a tea or maybe hot chocolate. If I l’m asked why don’t I drink coffee, I consider it a conversation starter and answer the question. Maybe you should just go with the flow and not be offended by these innocent questions. First dates can be awkward and it’s ok. I don’t write men off instantly.

[Steve Mason]

Dating strangers is a numbers game. Which means there will be way more “misses” than “hits”. You just have to expect it and enjoy it the best you can. The benefit of a coffee date over a dinner date is time. Coffee dates are shorter and as most dates with strangers won’t be a match, you save time and won’t burn out.

 

But spending time analyzing a non match can lead to burning out. So don’t do it. Not a match, move onto the next one. No analysis needed.

[GemmaUK]

As one of the other posters said, you could use not drinking certain drinks as a conversation starter. Instead it seems to ruffle your feathers somewhat.

You can control your own reactions and emotions (hopefully) over something so inconsequential in the scheme of things.

Asking the question about it isn't a slur, it's just curiosity.

 

I also think you could do with learning how to small talk.

It's a massive part of human interaction and a big part of dating, especially when getting to know someone.

Most people won't jump into talking about world affairs.

What were you talking about over text? If that was small talk as well as date setting a date is going to wonder where the normal chit chat went when on a date.

[joseb]

. Don't take women on coffee dates when you don't even drink coffee. That's just silly.

 

In fairness to op, he is doing that because previously he was spending a lot of time and money on dinner dates that were mostly going nowhere.

And given that he doesn't drink alcohol, a coffee date isn't a bad idea.

 

I don't think it's an issue he doesn't drink coffee, but if he's only drinking water, then yeah it kinda feels like meh for someone.

 

Maybe try some different types of teas, surely there's something you might like other than water? Just to spice it up a bit

[kortz]

Well I don't really go out much so cold approaching wont really work, unlike many I don't have sporting interests, music interest etc. so am bit unsure where I would do cold approaches. Sure, I sit in a café and see someone nice looking but logic simply dictates that she wont be single.

 

 

You could say I am nervous and indifferent at the same time, in my experience cold approaching is the fastest way to get rejected if you have nothing to offer when judged against others. The short of it is I cant strike up conversations with random people.

 

 

Other guys seem to do ok on Tinder and apps. I have pretty much resorted to apps my entire dating "career" simply because I have never managed the alternative.

 

 

I suppose the definition of insanity is doing the same thing hoping for a different outcome.

 

Well what are your interests? Go to events that relate to those and practice just talking to people, women included, not with the intention of picking anyone up but to practice your conversation skills. If you don't make an active effort to go out and meet people then you can't expect much. Sometimes all you need is to be pleasant and have a good sense of humor to connect with someone.

 

If you lack confidence, join a toast masters group. You will meet people just like you and everyone I know who has done something like that is so much more confident as a result.

 

It sounds to me like you need to work on yourself a little bit. You're right that no one would be interested in someone uninteresting when there are other people out there that have more to offer. But why should that stop you self-improving and becoming more interesting and trying new things. Take up the guitar, join a hiking group, go to meetup events, take a cooking class, take up that thing you've always admired but thought you didn't have the skill or time for...everyone has to start somewhere.

 

You're making a lot of excuses to not try. Stop thinking so much about what others want and think about what you want. You're not going to find happiness in someone else if you're not entirely happy with yourself (and don't kid yourself and say you are).

 

In my opinion you sound like you need to work on yourself rather than work on dating others. Self assured and confident people attract others. You don't need to be a world traveler or play 10 different sports to be attractive to someone else...just the ability to laugh and know what YOU want will get you further than you think.

Edited November 29, 2017 by kortz

[ZA Dater]

Then I get this.

 

 

There is someone I met at a car dealer, this was an example of where I did/do feel some sort of attraction, with her it was about being charming, actually trying my flirting skills and she laughs and smiles at me and I get treated a lot different to everyone else so its not professional friendliness.

 

 

From the off this isn't someone I would normally be attracted to, petite, not super pretty but cute.

 

 

But as is my lot in life... after all this charming and flirting I discover she is married....with kids.

 

 

She is attractive because she is cute and because her personality. My point is I can be charming and I can actually flirt but it takes a very certain type of personality to get me interested.

 

 

This is one person I would date, irrespective of kids.

[CptInsano]

Then I get this...

 

Sounds like a harmless flirt, great to lift one's spirits and to exercise that "flirting muscle". Now take that experience and apply it again. There have to be more women like this, preferably unmarried.

[ZA Dater]

Sounds like a harmless flirt, great to lift one's spirits and to exercise that "flirting muscle". Now take that experience and apply it again. There have to be more women like this, preferably unmarried.

 

 

 

Then again the pattern with me is to always want what I cannot have....admittedly I had to "meet" her over an extended time to actually get going with charming her.

 

 

Didn't take one meeting...

[CptInsano]

Then again the pattern with me is to always want what I cannot have....admittedly I had to "meet" her over an extended time to actually get going with charming her.

 

 

Didn't take one meeting...

 

If you always want what you cannot have and have to work that hard to get a positive response then you need to reach out to more women. I know it sounds stupid, but it truly is a tipping-point type of situation. If the number of women you meet are too small you put too much thought into every encounter and push for things that are ultimately not there. You get stuck.

 

One makes better decisions if there is a least a reasonable alternative, even if you know that you can and will chat up somebody at the coffee shop. When I was younger I set myself a one-woman-a-day quouta. It really wasn't that hard to talk to one stranger on a daily basis.