Just joined LoveShack -- falling back w/ ex

[DavidA7]

Hello.

I just joined and I would love to engage in dialogue with members here about a recent breakup. I live in an area where the dating landscape is beyond bleak. I had been dating a woman where we had incredibly chemistry, giddiness, we laughed, and time stood still when we were together and things were going well. However, she was diagnosed with Histrionic Personality Disorder and would go into a rage at a moments notice and she lacked an ability to regain control or articulate her emotions. She would put down my career in front of others, and try to build herself up and need to be the center of attention. It was a crazy cycle. She lacks the fidelity I want in a relationship, and was constantly flirting with every man at work (even with guys when we would be out).

I am sure from reading this, people are saying .. move on .. it wasn't going to work out. Cognitively I get that. My fear is that I am so discouraged about meeting someone else that I will go back to her. She regularly sends me short texts, pictures of her and her dog, etc. I try to be friendly and encourage her (she is seeing a counselor regularly and engaging in a lot of wellness activities). But the truth is I know she doesn't match the type of woman I want to meet, and it is most likely meet what she wants long-term.

I feel that we have made a choice, but are dangerously close to being so discouraged by local prospects that we are going to slip back into getting together.

I apologize if this is not the place to reach out for advice. I am hopeful it is. Thanks for reading.

[Downtown]

She was diagnosed with Histrionic Personality Disorder.

David, welcome to LoveShack. If your exGF has full-blown HPD, she likely suffers from one or two other personality disorders as well -- together with at least one "clinical disorder" (e.g., bipolar, depression, anxiety, ADHD, OCD, or panic disorder). Indeed, HPD so strongly overlaps three other PDs (BPD, NPD, and ASPD) that the American Psychiatric Assoc. came very close in Dec 2012 to completely eliminating the HPD category and folding it into those three other PDs.

 

I mention this only because several of the behaviors you mention -- the instant rages, inability to regulate emotion, and rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you) -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).

 

My fear is that I am so discouraged about meeting someone else that I will go back to her.

You have good reason to be fearful, David. If my experience with my BPDer exW is any guide, a close relationship with your exGF likely would get much worse over the years -- not better -- unless she works very hard in many years of intensive therapy. Hence, if you are seriously at risk of taking her back, I suggest you learn how to spot the warning signs for BPD, NPD, ASPD, and HPD.

 

Of course, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Although strong PD symptoms are easy to spot, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute a full-blown PD. Yet, like learning warning signs for a stroke or heart attack, learning those for personality disorders may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back or avoid running into the arms of another woman who is just like her.

 

If you're interested, an easy place to start is my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. And Sal provides a concise and insightful account of what it's like to live with a BPDer for 23 years in his 3/16 post. If those descriptions ring many bells and raise questions, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, David.

[DavidA7]

Downtown,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I truly appreciate it. The only thing I know for sure is that her therapist diagnosed her with HPD. Although, reading through the thread you suggested I can see many of the same Borderline diagnostic criteria. Is sexual promiscuity part of Borderline as well. I know that was an issue in her two previous marriages. I think she loves, yet when she is out with friends she lets flirtation go way too far.

The sad thing to me is that she tells me about her experience in a way that suggested she wanted to change. Yet, when I can use her exact same language she uses to try to talk, she explodes in a rage (saying things like "every person who I have been with appreciates me for who I am, except for you"). It put me in the position of feeling like I cannot talk about anything and I was walking on egg shells around her.

Even given all this, when we connected we really connected. She could yell at me and make me feel like the worst person she has ever met, then would write out lists and give them to me saying that I know her better than anyone and she found me "dreamy." It was so confusing!

Again, I cannot thank you enough for the links you shared. Sadly, I feel like I am addicted to the wonderful times we had and keep thinking that the negative moments can disappear (yet, my mind tells me that it won't change) -- that is why I feel so afraid.

[Highndry]

Read everything that Downtown posts, and then read it again, and then run. Seriously. These women (and men) will absolutely ruin your life.

[Downtown]

Is sexual promiscuity part of Borderline as well?

Strictly speaking, no. Like the strong desire to be the center of attention, the sexual promiscuity is strongly characteristic of HPD, not BPD. Yet, because BPDers lack the ability to regulate their own emotions, they have difficulty controlling their own impulses. Hence, one of the nine defining symptoms is "Impulsive and often dangerous behaviors." So far, you've seen what "impulsive" means.

 

If you stay with a BPDer for very long, you will see what "often dangerous behaviors" means. In my case, it meant that my exW -- at the end of our 15 year marriage -- had me arrested on a bogus charge of "brutalizing" her. When I got out of jail 3 days later, I found that she had obtained a R/O (which USA courts hand out like candy) barring me from returning to my own home for 18 months (the time it takes to finalize a divorce in this State).

 

She explodes in a rage (saying things like "every person who I have been with appreciates me for who I am, except for you").

If your exGF is a BPDer, any issue you discuss -- no matter how minor -- has the potential to trigger her rage episodes. The reason is that a BPDer has been carrying enormous anger and hurt deep inside since early childhood. You therefore don't have to do or say a thing to CREATE the anger. You only have to do some minor thing that TRIGGERS a sudden release of anger that is always there below the surface. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in only a few seconds. And this is why another one of the 9 defining symptoms is "Inappropriate, intense anger or problems controlling anger." Indeed, 3 of the 9 defining symptoms contain the terms "anger" or "dangerous behaviors." In contrast, those terms appear in none of the defining symptoms for HPD. See 8 Histrionic PD Symptoms.

 

It put me in the position of feeling like I cannot talk about anything and I was walking on egg shells around her.

That feeling is well known by anyone dating a BPDer for an extended period. This is why the best-selling BPD book (targeted to those abused partners) is titled, Stop Walking on Eggshells.

 

Even given all this, when we connected we really connected.

Because BPDers have a very weak and fragile sense of who they are, they have virtually no personal boundaries. This means they don't know where their own feelings and issues stop and where yours begin. They truly believe that many -- if not most -- of their own feelings have originated in your mind, not their own.

 

That is, they project their own feelings of happiness and sadness onto YOU. Because this projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, they will consciously believe that you are responsible for their current feelings. This also means that they sometimes will mirror aspects of your own personality. The result, as you say, is that "When we connected, we really connected."

 

She could yell at me and make me feel like the worst person she has ever met, then would write out lists and give them to me saying that I know her better than anyone and she found me "dreamy."

These rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you) are a hallmark of BPDer behavior. Like a young child, a BPDer is too emotionally immature to handle strong conflicting feelings about a loved one. She therefore will simplify her thinking process by doing black-white thinking. In that way, she does not have to deal with ambiguities, conflicting feelings, uncertainties, and the other gray areas of close personal relationships.

 

It was so confusing!

if you really have been dating a BPDer for over a year, consider yourself lucky that you are only feeling "confused." Because BPDers typically are convinced that the absurd allegations coming out of their mouths are absolutely true -- they generally have a greater "crazy-making" effect than can ever be achieved by narcissists, histrionics, or sociopaths.

 

This is why that, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused partners feel like they might be losing their minds. And this is largely why therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going crazy -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

 

Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you know, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning.

 

My mind tells me that it won't change.

If she exhibits strong and persistent BPD symptoms, they will change. They almost certainly will get worse over the long run. And, in the short run, you can expect to see periods of dramatic improvement alternating with periods of dramatic decline. Like the smoker who is always throwing away his "last pack" every two or three months, a BPDer typically exhibits dramatic improvements in her behavior periodically. That's how emotionally unstable people behave. Remember, even a roller coaster will be seen making dramatic gains half the time. Hence, when a BPDer's behavior is good, it tends to be really really GOOD. And when it is bad, it tends to be really really BAD.

[DavidA7]

Downtown, I cannot begin to fully express how grateful I am for your words. I felt like I was swimming in confusion. Your specific and thoughtful replies helped me understand what happened. You allowed me to step back and see things much clearer; I was so into the situation that I could not understand what was happening. Especially, your comments that so much of this stems from the past. She would never talk about her relationship with her father, and she convinced me that her past two husbands were to blame for her divorces (stories changed, but I stopped pointing out discrepancies in her stories with "last time you told me ..." because I knew she would explode).

 

Nothing horrible happened to me other than the sadness of losing some positive experiences. Yet, I know that the level of relationship I desire was impossible with her. I do hope that her work with her therapist is helpful.

 

Thank you again! I truly appreciate your replies. Blessings to you.

Edited November 20, 2017 by DavidA7
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