Do A's Help MM Stay In Marriage

[BoatingBabe]

Taking this off another thread, there is a school of thought here that says an A helps a man stay in their marriage. That excitement they get from their affair makes their marriage bearable. I'm not saying it HELPS their marriage, but that it gives the MM no incentive to leave if he can have both. I tend to agree with this. I feel that when the OW ends the affair the MM is forced to deal and face his marital problems head on.

[ww]

Or he finds a substitute right away

[LucreziaBorgia]

an A helps a man stay in their marriage. That excitement they get from their affair makes their marriage bearable.

 

In the case of a cakeman, that is true. The cakeman will be 'happy' in his marriage because he is also having his OW needs outside the marriage met as well. As long as the cakeman has his W and his OW (or any number of them) then he is as happy as a pig in sh*t. It is unfortunate that the blissful 'fulfilled' feeling he gets comes at the expense of the W and the OW - both of whom if they want to be with him, have to agree to settle for half so that the MM/H can have it all.

 

I feel that when the OW ends the affair the MM is forced to deal and face his marital problems head on.

 

I would add that when OW ends the affair, the MM will just find another OW eventually.

[BoatingBabe]

Originally posted by LucreziaBorgia

 

I would add that when OW ends the affair, the MM will just find another OW eventually.

 

I agree. It's only a matter of time when the MM in my EA chooses someone else to get his emotional thrill from. Right now, he's still pouting and sulking...it does appear he has given up though.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Never underestimate the determination of a man who is on the hunt. Don't let your guard down, BB - I expect that is what he is hoping for.

[TUDOR]

I totally agree with this line of thinking!

[newbby]

i agree, i actually watched it happen with my xmm. i am not saying there wasnt a certain amount of lying to me on his part about the state of the marriage anyway, but listening to mutual friends talk about his marriage throughout the a and pre-a, this is exactly what happened.

[whichwayisup]

The only positive thing that could come out of it is the MM gets busted and his wife forgives him (or otherway around, if the wife is cheating and he finds out/forgives her) and together they fix what was missing from the marriage.

 

Sometimes it takes a shake up to fix things and get life back to where it should be.

 

I think though a MM who has a wife and an OW for a long time is selfish and yes, ofcourse he is going to be happier, what his wife doesn't give him, he gets from the OW, and vise versa. So in his mind why would he want things to change?? Talk about having your cake and eating it too. Sadly though he's doing this on the expense of his wife. (more than likely she doesn't know...)

[Owl]

First off...very wise of you to create a new thread for this, BB. That way we're not TJ'ing someone else's thread!

 

Quoted from the other thread by Newbby:

 

 

Original quote by Owl:

 

There is NO WAY that an affair of any kind is GOOD for a marriage. It does not make the marriage more bearable. It doesn't save the marriage. Bluntly my friend, that's just wishful thinking to help salve the OP's feelings about what is going on.

 

 

Newbby's response:

 

wishful thinking?

i hardly think so!

why would anyone wish to feel that the continuation of their relationship has only made the person they fell in love with happier with their most important relationship, and that had they refused the affair, the mm may have left the marriage altogether and given a proper chance to the relationship??????????

 

 

quote by Owl:

 

I've seen it repeatedly where someone gets involved with an affair, and convinces themselves that the marriage was horrible...when in reality it wasn't nearly as bad as they've let themselves think...it's a mechanism that they can use to justify what they've done, even to themselves.

 

 

Response from Newbby:

 

i agree, that this is often true. however, why the a in the first place? perhaps it is only lust, but most of these affairs continue for quite some time, i think there is most likely some dissatisfaction with the marriage before the a begins.

 

also you say that the a is not helpful to the marriage as it is only communication and hard work that saves the marriage. i dont believe that is the only way to save a marriage. i think any shift in dynamics would more than likely be beneficial. if two people are stuck in a certain way of relating then it only takes one to alter their attitude to the other person to change everything. perhaps in the beginning of the affair this alters for the worse, but as the cs gets the ego boost and appreciation they were seeking from the marital partner from elsewhere, and feels alive and youthful again, it makes sense that it would take the pressure off the marriage. then the cs feels guilty and feels the love again for the bs and begins to resent the op.

 

I can see why what I said perhaps didn't come out as I'd intended. As far as the 'wishful thinking'...most OM/OW don't want to see themselves as bringing more harm to a marriage, so the 'wishful thinking' in that is exactly what I meant...that they WISH that they'd not made matters worse, although that truly can't be possible.

 

On the thought that the improved self-esteem leading to a reconciliation of the marriage since it 'releases some of the pressure'...nope. I completely agree that most of the time there are some problems and issuses in the marital/family situation that lead one person to stray into an affair. More often than not, would be my guess. But that still doesn't change the reality that an affair is the single most devestating thing that can happen in a marriage.

 

What an affair CAN do is serve as a wake up call. It can demonstrate to BOTH spouses just how in danger the marriage is. And if they use that wake up call to fix the issues, then that is the one 'good' thing that comes out of an affair.

 

But even that comes at a heavy price. Trust is irreversibly damaged. While I love my wife with all of my heart, I know that in truth I'll never ASSUME that she'll never do something like this again. Going forward, we'll always have to have some means of reassuring each other that it won't. The 'innocence' is lost...a measure of fear and doubt will be in ANY relationship that the BS pursues, either with their spouse or with someone new if they divorce. Often the BS is left with dealing with issues in self-esteem and self-perception. The MM/MW often has to deal with similar issues, stemming mostly from guilt over what they've done to those they love. Depression is almost inevitable in most of these cases, for both spouses.

 

Even the OP is traumatized by this...because if the MM/MW goes back to their spouse, they're left alone again, and often have to deal with THAT loss, as well as feelings of guilt, self-esteem and self-worth issues just like the BS is. Even in the rare cases where the MM/MW remains with the OP, there is OFTEN the same issues with trust, guilt, etc... that would have plagued the original marriage had it remained.

 

An affair may be a catalyst that triggers the spouses to recognize the problems in their marriage and begin fixing them, but it's still not ever something to be considered in any way benificial to the marriage. There are other things that can provide that same catalyst, without nearly as much devestation and damaging repercussions.

 

As far as the affair 'helping' someone remain in a marriage...it doesn't. Because often the types of people that get involved in affairs are the ones that wouldn't have truly considered ending the marriage to begin with. They've been involved in the marriage for a long time (typically), and haven't taken any measures up to this point to end it...it's only until they begin to seek something OUTSIDE of the marriage that they often truly start to view that as an option. It's more likely that someone would begin REALLY considering divorce once they've been discovered in an affair...because now they see that as the only way to avoid the guilt/shame/repercussions of the affair.

 

Just my thoughts. Again, apologies to anyone I may have offended.

[newbby]

Even the OP is traumatized by this

i dont get why you find this surprising?

[Owl]

I don't find it surprising.

[MadameB]

What an insightful thread... during my very short liason with MM he did start our first 1 to 1, non work related chat off with the "my wife is presurising me to be this to do that, etc, etc", basically painting his whole marriage a lovely shade of grey (all to his benefit in hindsight, like poor MM his wife wants him to be a proper husband and not such a workoholic). "We" as such have completely blown over and disconnected though I do notice how he does seem to find the time now to leave work "on time" to get home and spend quality time with the unsuspecting Mrs.. mmmhh that is quite interesting. I do believe it makes their part of the marriage better though mine was a Cakeman, again in hindsight and fitting to the language here. I learn so much on this sight, inspiring ladies and gents, inspiring..

[Owl]

Newbby-

 

I've never once thought that the OM/OW wouldn't be hurt by the affair as well. Even in my own case, where my wife was the one who had an emotional affair, I know full well that the OM was undoubtedly hurt very much by the way that things ended up.

 

I've gotten to the point where I don't hate him anymore. I don't ever want to have anything to do with him again, and don't ever want him to have anything to do with my wife, but in some ways I do feel sorry for him. His pain was of his own making in a large part, but it's still pain nonetheless. I don't feel that he 'got what he deserved'...

 

I will freely admit that I am pro-marriage/anti-affair, as any and all of my posts here undoubtedly indicate. But I would surely hope that by now that its fairly obvious that I can sympathize with all of the people that are hurt by these events. If I didn't, all I would do is sit here and bash at those that get involved in things like this in the first place, instead of trying to provide suggestions and advice on ways that MAYBE they can improve their situation.

[LucreziaBorgia]

The fallout from a shattered affair affects everyone involved - they all feel pain and loss: the BS, the WS, the OP - friends of any of these that were involved in any way... awful stuff.

[newbby]

His pain was of his own making in a large part, but it's still pain nonetheless

 

the only problem i have with you owl is that you tar all affairs with the same brush as the one your wife had. i dont know, perhaps your wifes om did pursue her. for alot of the ow in this forum though, this didnt happen, the mm pursued them.

you acknowledge on the one hand that the mm does lie, and yet on the other you dont accept that the ow is manipulated to believe that the mm is about to leave his marriage for her.

for most ow they dont begin as thinking of themselves as an affair partner so much as an overlap partner. overlap partners are very common in the every day world of relationships that do not have the title of marriage, and are generally not frowned upon.

when the realisation hits them, it is very confusing as the mm has made them feel that this is just a heaven sent relationship, a soul union. the realisation tends to come in dribs and drabs as they try to get a handle on their feelings, not only for the mm, but about being the ow, about the fact that the mm has probably completely decieved his wife and his wife is not aware that they have this big a problem in the marriage.

i am not saying that once the realisation has hit, that the ow is then not responsible for staying in the relationship. that is the time that the ow needs to get strong enough to call it a day.

[Owl]

Newbby-

 

You're very likely right...I do tend to 'tar all affairs with the same brush'. Perhaps that's because while some of the minor variables may change, overall the basic equation remains the same.

 

Yes, the MM can and does lie in most cases. But regardless of the EXCUSES he gives for going outside of the marriage, both MM and OW have the responsibility for conducting the affair. The ONLY time I would feel that this would not be true would be those rare occasions where the OM/OW was totally unaware that MM/MW was married. Regardless of whatever EXCUSES he gave you for his straying, regardless as to whether or not those EXCUSES were true, that doesn't change anything if you knew he was married. It makes the OM/OW just as responsible for the affair as the MM/MW.

 

I don't know anything about these"overlap partners" that you speak of. I'm sorry...guess I'm just old-fashioned, but I've always been of the opinion that you have ONE partner at a time, regardless of marriage or not. Who doesn't frown on the "overlap partner"...I can't imagine someone being alright with knowing that their significant other is going to someone else for some kind of needs. Again, old fashion I guess.

 

If you know that the person you're getting involved with is married, and you know that you're becoming romantically involved with this person, then how can you NOT consider yourself an affair partner?

[newbby]

owl,

an overlap partner is where somebody starts seeing somebody else at the inevitable end of his/her current relationship. there is a little romance, flirting and perhaps a kiss, then he/she ends the current relationship almost immediately, and continues with the new relationship.

it is very common, i can tell you. almost every relationship i have witnessed begins in this way.

i agree, that after the first time, one has to realise that it is now an affair for which both ow and mm are responsible. i dont think equally so, i have to say, and i think in the op's mind, the possibility of them still being an overlap remains.

it is true that regardless of what the mp tells the op, the op should take into account the fact that the mp IS married. by that time however, there is usually a great deal of confusion and the op takes it upon themselves to try and make the relationship work.

obviously, there really IS no making it work. it was never really a relationship as far as the mp is concerned, just a bit on the side.

this is my experience of what an affair is and not yours.

all affairs are not the same, however, they fall into few catagories.

theres the affair of the cakeman, which was the one that i experienced.

there is the bridge affair which is quite rare, i believe, in which the mp really is looking for a way out of an unhappy marriage, this is generally the only type of affair in which the op leaves, and usually leaves pretty quickly.

perhaps this was the affair that your wife had, and she really believed she would find happiness with this om, she was trying to escape how unhappy she felt, but had placed the blame for her unhappiness on your marriage. it was misplaced obviously and lucky for the both of you, you have been able to work through this together.

the cakeman, on the other hand, can be extremely happy in his marriage, but want something extra on the side, usually just sex and ego boosting.

the cakeman knows how to manipulate and lie to get what he wants, he is good at it, because he has nothing to lose, he is already happy in his current relationship. he pursues with determination, but no fear, as he has nothing to lose.

[BoatingBabe]

I'm not sure what type mine was...he told me he was very unhappy in his marriage...and it seemed like he wanted me to be the overlap girl...but once he realized I was uncomfortable letting the EA go further, he decided to bring his wife to work and introduce her to everyone....So I'm beginning to think he is either a cakeman..or so humiliated that he got dumped, he decided to offer up some good ol' retribution.