battleworn Posted August 18, 2005 Posted August 18, 2005 So I recently jumped into online dating. Finally got over my worries that someone I know would see my profile. What the heck, everyone I know would know that I'm single and looking anyway. First some background: I'm 5"4', baby faced, a little doughy (but working hard on it), with what I'm told is a good sense of humor. But I'm the kind of guy that older women want to set their daughters up with. Still I had some surprising initial success at meeting women, at least via e-mail and chat. Surprising because I'd tried this briefly before without posting a photo and had zero uptake. But this has tailed off sharply as my profile has gotten a little older and I've worked my way through the system. However, I also posted my photo and profile on a another site, along with my approx. income. I'm not independently wealthy or anything but I make a good living. On those sites, I get a lot more interest. In fact, I get interest from the same women who on other sites have ignored my initial 'winks' and 'smiles', or who have stated there are looking for a different ethnicity or a taller guy. So the question is this: given all the other factors are the same, are these women just materialistic? A woman friend of mine once justified this kind of behaviour by saying that women aren't necessarily attracted to money itself, but to the kind of man who is driven to succeed. So money is just a score. I said, uh huh and rolled my eyes. I'm not looking for casual fun. I really want to meet someone for a real relationship, so is there any truth to this whatsoever? I'm more interested in hearing from women on this.
jen_jen_heartbroken Posted August 18, 2005 Posted August 18, 2005 Originally posted by Star Gazer I'm going to be brutally honest. I didn't even read 1/2 of your post, because I knew what the problem was right away... It's not about money. It's about your height and weight. Ouch! Brutal, but you may be right. I'm 5'8", and......honestly...... I'd look right past his profile.
Outcast Posted August 18, 2005 Posted August 18, 2005 SG IF you had read his whole post you would have read that he gets plenty of interest despite both height and weight when he adds his income to his profile. That's the question. You don't help much if you don't read a post before answering.
alphamale Posted August 18, 2005 Posted August 18, 2005 Originally posted by battleworn So the question is this: given all the other factors are the same, are these women just materialistic? A woman friend of mine once justified this kind of behaviour by saying that women aren't necessarily attracted to money itself, but to the kind of man who is driven to succeed. So money is just a score. I agree partially to the above that women want the type of guy who makes a lot of money. Generally, you'll find this more with attractive women who know they can get almost any man they want. They are the ones who eventually figure out that they want the good looking dude who makes $500,000 per year and has a huge schlong. Women want it all, but only very few women can get it. The fat and ugly chicks can't be very picky so they just take what comes along.
Jayhawks Posted August 18, 2005 Posted August 18, 2005 Now women. He was asking for advice not a bash on his ego. Just because you would not look at his profile is not good critique. You have to put personal feelings aside and answer the question. Yes, some women will not be interested in you because of your height but I'm sure you already know this. I think it's safe to say that even a short man is interesting when the bill fold is bulging ( as well as the pants ). All I can say is that if a gal passes you by because of things out of your control then you are better off not knowing them. They are just judging you by your cover.
Merin Posted August 18, 2005 Posted August 18, 2005 My Guess is ALL profiles that have a PHOTO are going to get more response then the ones who don't... IMO your lack of response had more to do with not having a photo, then you posting your income AND PHOTO on another... My 2 cent's..
JS17 Posted August 18, 2005 Posted August 18, 2005 I think you know already know the answer to this. Some women care about looks, some women care about money, some care about both and some care about neither. Everyone is different and looks for different things.
lindya Posted August 18, 2005 Posted August 18, 2005 Originally posted by Merin My Guess is ALL profiles that have a PHOTO are going to get more response then the ones who don't... IMO your lack of response had more to do with not having a photo, then you posting your income AND PHOTO on another... My 2 cent's.. I agree with that. To the OP, the whole online dating thing must make it far too easy for people to objectify others (age, height, income) and your photograph would have added the much needed human element. No doubt some of the responders will be attracted to the income aspect of it - it would be silly to deny that there are some shallow people out there. I think, however, you'd be overly harsh on yourself and the female gender to assume that that your financial status is all any woman is going to be interested in. Best of luck, and I hope you find a good match soon
alphamale Posted August 18, 2005 Posted August 18, 2005 Originally posted by lindya I think, however, you'd be overly harsh on yourself and the female gender to assume that that your financial status is all any woman is going to be interested in. I have found that many men don't understand the concept of "staying in your own league". A lot of women understand this instinctively. Most women who are average looking with an average job and average personality understand that they are most likely not going to bag the very good looking guy who is a CEO or physician. Men have more difficulty in this area. See....there is an unwritten "code" about who you can date and marry and hang out with. The good looking and successful people hang out with each other. The nerds hand out with each other. The fat ugly women hang out with each other. This is called "staying in your league" If you are a man who is below avg height, a bit heavy, average looking with an average job you most likely are not going to be able to date and marry women who are very attractive and make a large salary. That is just the way it is, acccept it and move on. The bottom line is you will have most success with people of the oppostie sex who are similar to you in looks and socio-economic strata.
lindya Posted August 18, 2005 Posted August 18, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale Most women who are average looking with an average job and average personality understand that they are most likely not going to bag the very good looking guy who is a CEO or physician. I was about to say that there's no such thing as an average person - but that, of course, would be wrong. You just expressed a very average point of view, alpha. It's not, however, a universal truth. The CEO or physician might be married to a not very amazing looking woman - but a woman who, nonetheless, is the right fit for him, shares his interests and knows exactly how to make the best of herself. If you want a famous example, why not consider that of Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles. Or would you say that Mrs Parker Bowles outshone Princess Diana in the looks department?
alphamale Posted August 18, 2005 Posted August 18, 2005 Originally posted by lindya You just expressed a very average point of view, alpha. It's not, however, a universal truth. I did not say it was universal, I said "most women" and "most likely". There are exceptions to everything... Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles. That is an excellent example of an exception to the rules. But please remember who his first wife was and what she was....
clandestinidad Posted August 18, 2005 Posted August 18, 2005 I have found that many men don't understand the concept of "staying in your own league". A lot of women understand this instinctively. Most women who are average looking with an average job and average personality understand that they are most likely not going to bag the very good looking guy who is a CEO or physician. Men have more difficulty in this area. See....there is an unwritten "code" about who you can date and marry and hang out with. The good looking and successful people hang out with each other. The nerds hand out with each other. The fat ugly women hang out with each other. This is called "staying in your league" If you are a man who is below avg height, a bit heavy, average looking with an average job you most likely are not going to be able to date and marry women who are very attractive and make a large salary. That is just the way it is, acccept it and move on. The bottom line is you will have most success with people of the oppostie sex who are similar to you in looks and socio-economic strata. I agree...there is some truth in this. (i'm dating a cute, nerdy, hopes-to-be-successful guy....and I'm an average gal....so it fits in my situation) I also agree with Merin...its probably b/c you have a pic on one, and not the other. When I've been on those sites, I dont respond to people without pictures.....and unfortunately, I dont respond to people under 5'10", so I also agree with stargazer. The good thing is that there are lots of short girls out there, so you shouldnt have any trouble!!
reservoirdog1 Posted August 18, 2005 Posted August 18, 2005 and I'm an average gal. You are far above average, Kat.
Author battleworn Posted August 18, 2005 Author Posted August 18, 2005 No offense taken ladies. I came here for truth, not image reinforcement. I have my mom for that. I have my own prejudices about people that I'm still working on so I can't complain about you. But let me clarify: 1. Baby-faced means young looking, not Danny DeVito. I would still get carded if I didn't have some gray coming in. I have a full head of hair. 2. Doughy means 5'4" and 155lbs as opposed to my target of 140. I will get there because the weight came from a medical problem. I have a fairly muscular upper body from previous weight lifting, but a spare tire that has to go. 3. I don't try to date outside my league. I limit my approaches to women the same height or less, of similar body type, with similar interests, and even in the same profession if I can. Trust me, I know exactly what kind of woman I can attract. 4. On all dating sites I always post a recent photo with face and body visible. I can't stand it when I meet someone who looks completely different than their picture-- it feels like cheating. So I don't do that. The only difference is whether my income is shown. So back to money. Can it be attractive to women because of the personality that it indicates, as opposed to the stuff it can buy? And again, not Trump money, more like mid-level doctor money.
JS17 Posted August 18, 2005 Posted August 18, 2005 Originally posted by battleworn So back to money. Can it be attractive to women because of the personality that it indicates, as opposed to the stuff it can buy? And again, not Trump money, more like mid-level doctor money. Everything else equal the answer is some women yes, some women no. I have a few friends that have strong economic needs from a partner but the majority of my friends do not. I couldn't care less how much someone makes that I date. I went right from one guy who was in grad school and made less than no money to a guy who worked for a CT hedge fund. Money means nothing to me and I probably wouldn't even look at that part of the profile.
morrigan Posted August 18, 2005 Posted August 18, 2005 Originally posted by battleworn Can it be attractive to women because of the personality that it indicates, as opposed to the stuff it can buy? And again, not Trump money, more like mid-level doctor money. Someone seen as relative success in their profession may be perceived as ambitious, confident, and having a solid work ethic, traits many people desire in a partner. Some men and women will make judgments about a person's character or quality based on their profession, education, etc. Some people would believe that a doctor would be more compassionate than a mechanic, or that a person employed in banking has more financial sense than a stripper. Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not. Money means nothing to me and I probably wouldn't even look at that part of the profile. Unless the guy was irresponsible with finances or had declared bankruptcy, someone elses money isn't my concern. Wealth doesn't imply generosity.
Author battleworn Posted August 18, 2005 Author Posted August 18, 2005 Thanks everyone. Illuminating in all respects. When I first started this a few weeks ago, I thought it was kind of crass to post income at all. But I figure, I'm very proud of my career and it's one way of expressing it. If I actually explained why I'm proud of what I've accomplished it would bore most people to death. It has little to do with money and more about taking risks and working on something you love. As for what I'm going to do, I think I'll drop the conversation with the cute little redhead who wanted a tall athletic man before she saw my income.
Mary3 Posted August 19, 2005 Posted August 19, 2005 Some women are highly attracted to men with money. I know a few girls like that personally. I go for the chemistry. Its vital to me. Your height will be somewhat of a problem for some ladies. I am taller than you and I prefer someone 5'11 or taller. If you flash the cash ~~you will find some women looking for your money. Some women have financial needs. Some have emotional needs. I suggest keep posting ...and there are cases where a man gets a taller girl... Just depends on what she is looking for..
johnflyr Posted August 19, 2005 Posted August 19, 2005 My take of this thread: some women have financial needs, some women have emtional needs, and some women have sexual needs. Thus, there is no right answer to it and you just need to satisfy whatever needs that your woman demands. Apperance? definitely important to girls when they don't know you. Once a girl is in love with you, she does not care about you looks any more.
JS17 Posted August 19, 2005 Posted August 19, 2005 Originally posted by johnflyr My take of this thread: some women have financial needs, some women have emtional needs, and some women have sexual needs. Thus, there is no right answer to it and you just need to satisfy whatever needs that your woman demands. Apperance? definitely important to girls when they don't know you. Once a girl is in love with you, she does not care about you looks any more. Hey, you guys are getting it!!! I have a tendency to believe that social needs far out rank sexual needs but with that you have what makes the foundation to a great relationship.
RICHBUTMODEST Posted August 19, 2005 Posted August 19, 2005 As someone who just got into the internet dating scene less than two years ago let me say the following. My posting without a picture and without listing my income got zero response although the substance of my description of who I am was accurate (including my personality, my drive, my goal for contributing to society and caring for my son). My posting with my picture (suit and tie, slim and trim) and no description of my occupation got almost no response. My posting with my occupation got a pretty good response (one to several emails per day). My posting with my occupation and my income (400K), by far got the best response. Money does count. On the other hand the old saying does apply, but perhaps in a different way, "you get what you pay for."
Author battleworn Posted August 20, 2005 Author Posted August 20, 2005 400K? I think I may be attracted to you.
RecordProducer Posted August 20, 2005 Posted August 20, 2005 Originally posted by battleworn So the question is this: given all the other factors are the same, are these women just materialistic? A woman friend of mine once justified this kind of behaviour by saying that women aren't necessarily attracted to money itself, but to the kind of man who is driven to succeed. So money is just a score. I said, uh huh and rolled my eyes. I am trying to convince men in this theory for years!! I am attracted to successful men, but it doesn't mean that any successful man would attract me. There are many more qualities I look for. So the money thing just adds one more quality to the list to give some men a hard time. On the other hand, it's not like women don't like money. Everyone wants to live carefree. But most of all it's related to our ancient past. It's atavism from the time when women stayed in caves with their children and men went hunting. Woman's nature by default needs a provider even if she doesn't intend to have children and makes good money herself. It's not "our fault", that's the way we were built and the more feminine the woman the more she expresses a need to be protected. It's inside and controlled by our genes, just like desire for sex or love or friendship. Nobody knows why we want all those things. Please don't mix this theory with gold-diggers and hyenas who only care about money and not love! It has nothing to do with them. You should be able to recognize the right woman. She will probably like the fact that you make good money. Good for you! I disagree that your height should be a problem. You can find a woman and have great love with her despite of how you look or anything else. It doesn't have to be easy, fast, and many women to date. You only need one woman and sooner or later you'll find her so don't listen to those girls! I agree with ALPHA about everything he said regarding dating within the league, but I don't see that problem with you. Good luck, dude!
Author battleworn Posted August 20, 2005 Author Posted August 20, 2005 I am trying to convince men in this theory for years!! I feel your pain. I've been pitching the theory that men like large breasts because it indicates better suitability for motherhood. I routinely check for good potential mothers. No one buys it though.
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