At what point do you give up on the relationship or go to therapy?

[kendahke]

Go for therapy when you recognize you're at an impasse.

 

for clarification:

Go for individual therapy when you recognize you're at an impasse.

Couples therapy should only come in after individual therapy has taken place--your relationship is too fractured to start out with couple's therapy.

[clia]

I guess I was just trying to figure out if the concept of therapy was silly for two people dating.

 

Personally, I think it is silly for two people who are only dating, unless you have a child together.

 

With all the people in the world, I don't understand why some people want to force or put so much work into a dating situation that isn't working for one or both of them. Why bother? Just move on and find someone who is a better match for you. Dating shouldn't be this hard.

[Almond_Joy]

I guess I was just trying to figure out if the concept of therapy was silly for two people dating.

 

Well this depends on what dating means to you.

 

I can be “dating” someone for three months, but if I’ve decided I want to be with this person and only this person, I’m going to consider going to therapy.

 

Dating usually implies people are in a trial period with each other? So I guess if that’s the phase you’re in in this relationship the amount of energy you’re willing to invest at this point has a well defined threshhold.

 

If he’s not willing to go back to therapy I don’t see how this can work....

[Leojax]

Personally, I think it is silly for two people who are only dating, unless you have a child together.

 

With all the people in the world, I don't understand why some people want to force or put so much work into a dating situation that isn't working for one or both of them. Why bother? Just move on and find someone who is a better match for you. Dating shouldn't be this hard.

 

Right, but that’s how you feel. It’s easier for all of us to say for OP to walk away because we have no emotional ties.

 

Counseling to make anything better should never be seen as silly, even if it doesn’t work out. What if it ends up working out for OP? maybe it will, maybe it won’t. Even if it doesn’t work out she’ll have much better tools from therapy to take to the next relationship. It can end up being a win win for OP where she doesn’t have to wonder what if.

[elaine567]

Dating is designed to filter out the people you are not compatible with.

 

Here this sounds like you will be walking on eggshells around him pretty soon if it is not already happening.

Too scared to bring up any topics to speak about just in case it triggers him and he turns it all around on you and he then attacks you and makes you feel horrible about yourself.

 

Life is too short for all of that.

YOU are actually supposed to enjoy life, not spend it tiptoeing around guys with "issues"...

[Gaeta]

The boyfriend's problem has a direct impact on OP' happiness and self-esteem. HIS problem is a personal dysfunction that makes him shed his anger on her and making her life miserable. This type of dysfunction can take years to work through.

 

Relationships are hard enough without investing yourself with a man that comes in with a collection of character issues, anger issues and whatsnot.

 

This man needs to solve his problems before being in a relationship.

 

If I had been dating a man for a few years and suddenly a problem arise then I'll stand by him because our relationship has reached a level of higher commitment.

 

I would not do the same for a man I have known 3 months who's been dealing with character problems since I have met him. That one I will ditch in a heart-beat. It would mean we never had a good relationship to start with.

 

Therapy is to gain back what once existed. It's not to pick a man with several dysfunctions and then bring him to therapy to turn him into the man you wish he was.

[zawadi16]

The boyfriend's problem has a direct impact on OP' happiness and self-esteem. HIS problem is a personal dysfunction that makes him shed his anger on her and making her life miserable. This type of dysfunction can take years to work through.

 

Relationships are hard enough without investing yourself with a man that comes in with a collection of character issues, anger issues and whatsnot.

 

This man needs to solve his problems before being in a relationship.

 

If I had been dating a man for a few years and suddenly a problem arise then I'll stand by him because our relationship has reached a level of higher commitment.

 

I would not do the same for a man I have known 3 months who's been dealing with character problems since I have met him. That one I will ditch in a heart-beat. It would mean we never had a good relationship to start with.

 

Therapy is to gain back what once existed. It's not to pick a man with several dysfunctions and then bring him to therapy to turn him into the man you wish he was.

 

 

We haven’t been together 3 months. It’s been a little over 2 years

[Gaeta]

We haven’t been together 3 months. It’s been a little over 2 years

 

Has he always been like this?

[zawadi16]

Has he always been like this?

 

No. We used to be so happy. Our families and friends even saw the changes in us because we were just that happy and his mother even said he’s different with me (in a good way).

 

We were long distance at first, but only a few hours away. He didn’t really start getting this way until we got very serious (marriage talk). Then not long after he kind of had a mini break down over his sister’s death after we had an argument. He never grieved over her death until then and said he’d been so numb until he met me. After that he perked right back up like didn’t have a mini break down and he never talked about it. Then it started to go really down hill from there. He just never deals with pain head on. From the hurt from his past relationships to the death he just swept it under the rug and pretended like it never happened and I know that’s extremely unhealthy.

 

I would have never gotten with him if he was like this if he had been this way in the beginning.

[Gaeta]

No. We used to be so happy. Our families and friends even saw the changes in us because we were just that happy and his mother even said he’s different with me (in a good way).

 

We were long distance at first, but only a few hours away. He didn’t really start getting this way until we got very serious (marriage talk). Then not long after he kind of had a mini break down over his sister’s death after we had an argument. He never grieved over her death until then and said he’d been so numb until he met me. After that he perked right back up like didn’t have a mini break down and he never talked about it. Then it started to go really down hill from there. He just never deals with pain head on. From the hurt from his past relationships to the death he just swept it under the rug and pretended like it never happened and I know that’s extremely unhealthy.

 

I would have never gotten with him if he was like this if he had been this way in the beginning.

 

Since how long are you no longer long-distance?

 

How long ago he lost his sister?

 

He obviously needs help with the death of his sister. Losing a sibling is among the most traumatic experience one can go through. You lose your life markers and you can go through a life crisis and question everything from the purpose of your existence to what's next in your life.

 

I am no shrink but I think you need to stop talking marriage and kids and put that on the back burner for now. He also needs to consult a therapist on his own to deal with his personal issues. He needs to go regularly. He also needs to understand that not seeking help is jeopardizing your relationship and he'll just carry this in his next relationship anyway.

[Gr8fuln2020]

The boyfriend's problem has a direct impact on OP' happiness and self-esteem. HIS problem is a personal dysfunction that makes him shed his anger on her and making her life miserable. This type of dysfunction can take years to work through.

 

Relationships are hard enough without investing yourself with a man that comes in with a collection of character issues, anger issues and whatsnot.

 

This man needs to solve his problems before being in a relationship.

 

If I had been dating a man for a few years and suddenly a problem arise then I'll stand by him because our relationship has reached a level of higher commitment.

 

I would not do the same for a man I have known 3 months who's been dealing with character problems since I have met him. That one I will ditch in a heart-beat. It would mean we never had a good relationship to start with.

 

Therapy is to gain back what once existed. It's not to pick a man with several dysfunctions and then bring him to therapy to turn him into the man you wish he was.

 

ABSOLUTELY! I simply will not tolerate anyone who is/was in need of therapy before, during the 'dating phase' and the issues in question directly (always does) affect my own well-being. It is simply nuts for me to even consider such a relationship.

[Sunlight72]

Personally, I think it is silly for two people who are only dating, unless you have a child together.

 

With all the people in the world, I don't understand why some people want to force or put so much work into a dating situation that isn't working for one or both of them. Why bother? Just move on and find someone who is a better match for you. Dating shouldn't be this hard.

I can certainly see your point here clia.

 

Two things come to mind for me though -

if you don't get invested in a relationship enough to work through difficulties while dating (and you plan to marry someday), when will you ever practice working through difficulties?

 

I have found that almost everything in life takes practice to do properly. Picking out a therapist. Picking out a car. picking out a college/university (if only I'd had the luxury of picking one after I had experienced a poor choice). Picking a partner. etc. ad infinitum.

 

I think it is valuable to go through experiences when they come up - knowing that the first time or three through a certain kind of experience will be mysterious and could well 'fail' reënforces my determination to get into it sooner than later. Considering therapy only when one's marriage is on the rocks and sinking is a horrible time to start to guess how to identify a good therapist from a bad one.

 

I'd much rather do that when the stakes aren't so high.

 

.....or to figure out that you don't like or trust the whole process of therapy, and realize you'll need to find other ways to work through problems and start seeking them out.

 

.....or to figure out how to determine for yourself what is a workable difficulty, and what is just a blatant indicator that you shouldn't be with this person as a partner.

 

.....or to learn skills in communicating, and recognizing what a situation likely means instead of wondering in the dark.

 

Also - dating isn't what it was when most people courted for a few months or a year and then married. It isn't uncommon now to meet people who have been 'dating' for 4+ years. It would be naive to think that will all be smooth sailing.

 

That all said - I agree that there is a limit to how hard a relationship should be. The tipping point is delicate for some people, but it's not healthy to go without recognizing any tipping point.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Sunlight72

[Coffeeguy]

I'm now a firm believer that if it works with someone, it works with someone. Once you are even thinking therapy, it's already done.

[kendahke]

No. We used to be so happy. Our families and friends even saw the changes in us because we were just that happy and his mother even said he’s different with me (in a good way).

 

We were long distance at first, but only a few hours away. He didn’t really start getting this way until we got very serious (marriage talk). Then not long after he kind of had a mini break down over his sister’s death after we had an argument. He never grieved over her death until then and said he’d been so numb until he met me. After that he perked right back up like didn’t have a mini break down and he never talked about it. Then it started to go really down hill from there. He just never deals with pain head on. From the hurt from his past relationships to the death he just swept it under the rug and pretended like it never happened and I know that’s extremely unhealthy.

 

I would have never gotten with him if he was like this if he had been this way in the beginning.

 

It sounds as if he could use some grief therapy.

 

Do you two live together or do you just live in the same town? I haven't seen where you've made this clear.

[basil67]

Chiming in late with lots of different thoughts.

 

The first red flag I see is that every girl he's ever dated has done the wrong thing by him. Sure, most of us have been hurt in a relationship or two, but when things get this frequent, you really need to ask yourself how he contributed to the problems. Or even if they were true to start with. There are guys here, who upon hearing that someone's ex moved on quickly, will assume she was cheating - despite having no actual proof. Do you know for sure that he really, truly was cheated on? If they all did cheat (while it's no excuse) do you know if he also subjected them to awful fighting techniques? Or has he just started this up with you....

 

The fact that he stopped therapy previously is a bad omen. It shows a lack of commitment to change on his part. What did his therapy entail? As well as working through issues, he needs strategies to manage his behaviour.

 

For me though, no matter how nice a guy was otherwise, his current behaviour would be an absolute dealbreaker for me.

[act00]

I disagree. If you’re dating and you see an issue by all means try to fix it if you think the relationship is worth it. If you need help with communicating or hoeing I argue in a much healthy way, yea the foundation is a little weak but therapy is there to make it stronger. They’ll already have the tools going into marriage when it’s really going to count. Most couples will and should go seek outside help at some point, what’s the harm in getting a head start?

 

I think people should look at therapy as a positive thing; an opportunity to be better. No need to be so negative.

 

Also, I would be hurt if I need individual therapy and the person I want to marry isn’t willing to stick it out with me if I’m willing to go to try to get better. I would understand bailing, but I’d be hurt. Keep that in mind OP since you’re talking about marriage. If marriage isn’t on the table by all means go without hesitation.

 

Maybe in a normal, otherwise healthy relationship, but this guy has some major issues. He reeks of being an emotional abuser, and abusers don't change...it takes a LOT to change, and that requires recognizing there are issues. He is gaslighting her. He doesn't fight fair; he fights dirty. He insults her, which derails her and quickly stops any form of discussion, communication, or resolution. He puts words in her mouth. He determines what she is thinking and begrudges her for it. She will find herself walking on eggshells more and more. The OP is already starting to wobble. These behaviors have probably been an issue all along, but to a far lesser degree and less frequency, but the OP won't see these things until she's months outside of the relationship. Of course this is just my opinion, based on my experience, but I'm seeing some major red flags here.

 

I agree with a later post. EVERY woman has cheated on him? Every single one?? Doubtful. He plays the victim, and one has to question what the hell is wrong with him that EVERY SINGLE WOMAN runs to the arms of another man. Honestly, if this is true, that in itself is yet another red flag. Most people are honest about their past relationships and failures, but this guy is just a victim with no fault of his own. Given this man's propensity to project, of course he is just the victim while these women were up to no good and left for no reason.

[GemmaUK]

I agree with a later post. EVERY woman has cheated on him? Every single one?? Doubtful. He plays the victim, and one has to question what the hell is wrong with him that EVERY SINGLE WOMAN runs to the arms of another man. Honestly, if this is true, that in itself is yet another red flag. Most people are honest about their past relationships and failures, but this guy is just a victim with no fault of his own. Given this man's propensity to project, of course he is just the victim while these women were up to no good and left for no reason.

 

This is actually one of the very first signs of an abuser.

It's down to a lack of taking any personal responsibility.

This could be about past relationships, things that went on in a person's family, work history, current work etc and etc.

 

You'll usually find an abuser does not take responsibility for anything bad at all that happened to them and it was always someone else's fault.

 

This was absolutely true of my abuse ex. It took a while to see it all and all of the people he blamed.

 

OP, sounds like this guy needs grief therapy, anger management therapy and some help over his abusive tendencies too. There's no way they could cover all that in couple's counselling and he has a long road to go down if he is ever to be normal in a healthy normal relationship. Him quitting therapy means it's not important to him - he probably blames the therapist in some way too even though his blame for quitting has turned to being school (if I am recalling that correctly). He could have made time to do both I am sure if it was important enough to him but he probably really doesn't think he needs any help.

It's easier for him to have someone who puts up with him in a relationship (yourself) that keeps letting him get away with this and won't leave. He doesn't really have to do any work except apologising - but I notice he blames you for his bad behaviour anyway. He believes that 100%.

He does say sorry but essentially it's your fault in his mind so he really doesn't have anything to fix within himself at all.

 

I suspect over the time you have been with him there have been signs here and there which you ignored or thought little of but now these things are basically getting worse, more obvious. This is how it transpires with abusers.

[OatsAndHall]

I have been through couples' therapy with a woman who acted much the same way your SO does and I can say that it wasn't beneficial. We went in looking for "better ways to communicate" and she became irate when the therapist subtly sided with me and tactfully told her that she needed to check her anger at the door. Long story short, we only went once and she walked out of it more angry and defensive than she had been previously.

 

I believe you need to take a step back and do two things. Firstly, determine how this relationship is affecting you. In my case, I was continually on edge and had grown more and more defensive because we simply couldn't communicate without her flying off of the handle. I found myself becoming more and more resentful and also less and less rational. Secondly, this is a situation this needs to be addressed, one way or another, before you even think about taking things any further with this man. Your life will be turned upside down if you marry him and bring a child into this world.

 

I don't generally don't suggest ending a relationship over this site unless there is some serious abuse or infidelity. But, I would strongly recommend that you put your foot down with your SO; either he gets help and starts behaving like an adult or the relationship is done. He will do so if he actually is the kind, caring individual you described.

[smackie9]

This guy just simply needs therapy. There is no way a person has that much bad luck. He is the issue. He could be bi-polar, suffer from BPD,... something. TBH I would not want a marriage or kids with someone like that. If he does have mental illness of some kind, that will get passed down to your kids. So you better think clearly in your decision making. A person that is sweet at times, is noway a reason to keep the relationship. That's stupid thinking there.

[act00]

I totally agree, Oats. Therapy can actually be more negative than positive when dealing with a "personality disorder" and when going into therapy with an abuser, it really just adds more ammunition to the abuser's line of thinking towards his partner, while continuing to believe he has no issues to work on or need to change. They don't like it when their flaws are pointed out because they have no flaws.

[elaine567]

A person that is sweet at times, is noway a reason to keep the relationship. That's stupid thinking there.

 

Agreed.

Almost every abuser, even the very sad and bad ones are not usually nasty 24/7.

If they were, no-one would stay with them.

They always have this "lovely" or "nice" or "kind" or "generous" side that keeps their partner on side and coming back for more, often no matter how bad it gets.

They think "He/she used to be wonderful, he/she can be that again", but it may not work like that.

In the early stages they were on their best behaviour, the "bad" person that showed up later, can be the real them.