It's Complicated.

[Unordinary_Feelings]

First and foremost, thanks to anyone who reads this. I apologize if it's a bit of a novel, but I'll do my best to make it easily readable.

 

I'm 27 and very in love with my girlfriend (24). She's currently in med school (she started in July) and I'm working full time with a masters degree. We've been together for a year and a half and we were friends for four years prior to dating.

 

Our relationship is complicated because she's Muslim and I am not. Still, throughout our relationship we've discussed marriage, kids, and converting. It's something that I'm open to in order to be her, but still (I don't want to make it sound like it's all rainbows) the conversations haven't been without tension. There have been plenty of arguments about it all to reach this point where I feel ready to make that change.

 

In spite of these tensions, she's always been really open about wanting to marry me and have kids, etc. We've spoken with a lot of love about those feelings. But in the last couple of months, the stress of med school and our bickering about some of these topics has changed the way that she talks to me about our relationship and future.

 

My username is Unusual_Feelings, because I'm a 27 year old man and I really do want to be married to her (something atypical from what I understand). I love my girlfriend and even though our relationship has been filled with challenges, when it's just me and her...I'm the happiest that I've ever been. She fills my cup to the brim and makes me want to work hard to be a better man. I love the ways in which we care for each other and express love.

 

We had a big fight yesterday when discussing marriage and feelings. She doesn't say that I'm the man that she wants to marry anymore. She expresses doubt (primarily because of the stresses involving telling family while she's in medical school) and because of my issues with dealing with time apart (I ask for more communication, but she's busy). I'm trying to learn and work on the latter.

 

I recognize that this is a problem for me. I don't love limited communication. Connecting every day is really valuable to me and I've expressed that to her. But she's the type that can survive with very little verbal communication. She shows her affection by making an extra effort to see each other in the morning or by being physically affectionate when we're together.

 

Even knowing this, I still feel like she doesn't feel the same way about me anymore. It was painful for me to hear that her feelings had changed because of stress. It made me feel as though she could only love me that way when things were at their happiest and she felt supported (there were lots of days filled with tears, me holding her, and questions of "Am I cut out for this?" when she first started med school). I've been rock steady for her in the face of the new stresses, but I have needs too.

 

If I'm being honest, that conversation made me feel like her feelings for me were conditional. I communicated this to her. I've communicated the pain of these changes.

 

The reason I'm writing here today is because I'm experiencing some dissonance that I don't know how to contend with. I love my girlfriend. I still want to talk to her and treat her like she's my future wife. I'm the type of man who believes in chivalry, writing her songs/poems, being loving and affectionate, cooking her nice dinners, or just having her back with anything she needs. She's my girl and I want to make her life easier.

 

But now I feel like I'm afraid to do this. Her hesitation is making me hesitate and second guess my own feelings. It might sound petty, but it feels to me like if she's not all in, then I don't want to be either. When I asked her why she stopped talking about me like her future husband or calling me the love of her life, she said "I'm not saying you won't be those things. Just give me time." I want to have faith in that, but she's so absorbed in working at her career that I ask myself questions like, "When will we have the time to get back to all of that again?"

 

I don't know if I'm making sense, but some perspective would be much appreciated. Thanks

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

It sounds to me like she just isn't capable of meeting your needs the way you want them met right now. Like there's only so much of her to go around and she's feeling stretched too thin. She may always be this way. After med school will be working. After marriage, kids. Life's pressures change relationships when things get so busy and you can't just devote all of your time to each other like you did in younger, carefree days.

[Unordinary_Feelings]

I think if you asked her she'd probably agree. In fact, I'm positive she's told me as much.

 

Still, after discussing it, neither of us wants to leave the relationship. I don't mean to be rude, but aside from that observation...does anything else stand out to you?

 

Or rather, do you have any advice for me?

[Miss Spider]

I don't feel she's 100% sold on you anymore . Yes, med school is busy but when you love someone you don't dodge questions about future together etc. jmo

[Unordinary_Feelings]

She doesn't dodge the question, she openly brings up the future and having kids. It's really just that she said that the expectation of marriage is putting pressure on her feelings and that when she feels like she's ready, she doesn't want for it to be because of an expectation to get married (e.g., as is customary in Islam), but instead because she's sure.

 

But maybe you're right. That's what I'm afraid of . I guess I don't really know what to do or how to behave.

 

Would it be better for me to just treat this like a relationship and not something that has a possibility of a real future?

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I think if you asked her she'd probably agree. In fact, I'm positive she's told me as much.

 

Still, after discussing it, neither of us wants to leave the relationship. I don't mean to be rude, but aside from that observation...does anything else stand out to you?

 

Or rather, do you have any advice for me?

 

Maybe your communication styles. I relate a lot to this woman. I hate talking on the phone. The last relationship I was in, I couldn't stand that he wanted to talk on the phone for over an hour every night! Of course there has to be compromise, but if she's not innately a big talker (i.e. chatty), your communication needs may just feel like "one more thing she has to do." How is she about texting during the day?

 

I've never been in medical school, but I am self employed full-time, have a mortgage, and am a single mom of two teens, so I definitely get the "not enough of me to go around" feeling. It's why I'm not dating. I can't invest what would be necessary for a good, solid relationship at this point in my life.

 

You've known this woman for a long time. When you started your friendship, you were kids. You didn't have adult responsibilities. Now you do, and those responsibilities will continue to evolve and chance, and so will the two of you. It's normal to have less and less time for each other as you age, and it's also one of the biggest stressors to a relationship/marriage. You're both still pretty young. I'm 20 years older than your girlfriend and the 44 year old me is nothing like the 24 year old me lol! (Wish I had her body though! )

 

Guess my only advice would be to adjust your expectations if you want to make it work. And for her, to compromise a little more if she needs to with regard to communication.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

She doesn't dodge the question, she openly brings up the future and having kids. It's really just that she said that the expectation of marriage is putting pressure on her feelings and that when she feels like she's ready, she doesn't want for it to be because of an expectation to get married (e.g., as is customary in Islam), but instead because she's sure.

 

But maybe you're right. That's what I'm afraid of . I guess I don't really know what to do or how to behave.

 

Would it be better for me to just treat this like a relationship and not something that has a possibility of a real future?

 

I don't get that from what you've said, at all.

[Unordinary_Feelings]

I don't get that from what you've said, at all.

 

Could you please elaborate? Do you mean that I should be patient and just keep giving the same effort?

 

That's what my gut tells me, but it's tough to do that some days when it feels like she's experiencing some uncertainty.

 

Maybe your communication styles. I relate a lot to this woman. I hate talking on the phone. The last relationship I was in, I couldn't stand that he wanted to talk on the phone for over an hour every night! Of course there has to be compromise, but if she's not innately a big talker (i.e. chatty), your communication needs may just feel like "one more thing she has to do." How is she about texting during the day?

 

I've never been in medical school, but I am self employed full-time, have a mortgage, and am a single mom of two teens, so I definitely get the "not enough of me to go around" feeling. It's why I'm not dating. I can't invest what would be necessary for a good, solid relationship at this point in my life.

 

You've known this woman for a long time. When you started your friendship, you were kids. You didn't have adult responsibilities. Now you do, and those responsibilities will continue to evolve and chance, and so will the two of you. It's normal to have less and less time for each other as you age, and it's also one of the biggest stressors to a relationship/marriage. You're both still pretty young. I'm 20 years older than your girlfriend and the 44 year old me is nothing like the 24 year old me lol! (Wish I had her body though! )

 

Guess my only advice would be to adjust your expectations if you want to make it work. And for her, to compromise a little more if she needs to with regard to communication.

 

Yeah definitely. She's more touchy/showy about affection. She wants to do things together and be loving while doing them. She's not huge on putting things into words.

 

She's terrible at both (talking on the phone/texting). The great irony being that when we started our relationship, she complained that I didn't want to spend entire days with her or that I didn't talk to her enough.

 

When I talk to her about it she talks about it being a natural progression in relationships. I don't necessarily disagree. But I'm a big believer in putting forth the effort when you think something is worth it. So I tried to adapt to what she asked me for. Now, I genuinely do love spending the day with her or sharing things about my day. It feels like the roles have reversed.

 

However, I don't blame her for that. I feel like it truly is the stress of school and family and trying to balance it all. I'm trying my best to be empathetic, but I don't always succeed. I'm all too human and my frustration has been getting the better of me for a couple of months now.

[Miss Spider]

She doesn't dodge the question, she openly brings up the future and having kids. It's really just that she said that the expectation of marriage is putting pressure on her feelings and that when she feels like she's ready, she doesn't want for it to be because of an expectation to get married (e.g., as is customary in Islam), but instead because she's sure.

 

But maybe you're right. That's what I'm afraid of . I guess I don't really know what to do or how to behave.

 

Would it be better for me to just treat this like a relationship and not something that has a possibility of a real future?

 

Well, that's what I mean by being dodgy. If it's not a yes then it's a no. People use words like "pressure" or "not ready" or "perhaps" but that is all just detractors from the "no" they are feeling at the moment. It's not unusual for her to want marriage and kids. I just think if she were really into you she would be less practical and more certain. If anything, you should back off a little.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Could you please elaborate? Do you mean that I should be patient and just keep giving the same effort?

 

That's what my gut tells me, but it's tough to do that some days when it feels like she's experiencing some uncertainty.

 

 

 

Yeah definitely. She's more touchy/showy about affection. She wants to do things together and be loving while doing them. She's not huge on putting things into words.

 

She's terrible at both (talking on the phone/texting). The great irony being that when we started our relationship, she complained that I didn't want to spend entire days with her or that I didn't talk to her enough.

 

When I talk to her about it she talks about it being a natural progression in relationships. I don't necessarily disagree. But I'm a big believer in putting forth the effort when you think something is worth it. So I tried to adapt to what she asked me for. Now, I genuinely do love spending the day with her or sharing things about my day. It feels like the roles have reversed.

 

However, I don't blame her for that. I feel like it truly is the stress of school and family and trying to balance it all. I'm trying my best to be empathetic, but I don't always succeed. I'm all too human and my frustration has been getting the better of me for a couple of months now.

 

It sounds like you don't truly feel/know that it is simply the stress of school, which was your point in starting this thread. What I am saying is that, without knowing you guys, I think it probably IS just the stress of school. I just didn't get the feeling like her actual feelings for you are uncertain; just that she is uncertain how to manage her stress load AND meet your needs. But also, that this is just what life is going to be like from now on. Life probably will NOT become less stressful for her because of the life changes I mentioned before. So YOU have to decide if you're getting enough, because I do believe she's probably giving you all she can at this point.

 

Are you as busy as she is?

[Miss Spider]

People are moved by feelings. That is what motivates their actions. She is certain of her desire to be a doctor. She is not so certain of her desire to spend the rest of her life with you

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Cookies and I are obviously seeing this situation completely different from one another. That's ok, she's still great in my book!

[Unordinary_Feelings]

It sounds like you don't truly feel/know that it is simply the stress of school, which was your point in starting this thread. What I am saying is that, without knowing you guys, I think it probably IS just the stress of school. I just didn't get the feeling like her actual feelings for you are uncertain; just that she is uncertain how to manage her stress load AND meet your needs. But also, that this is just what life is going to be like from now on. Life probably will NOT become less stressful for her because of the life changes I mentioned before. So YOU have to decide if you're getting enough, because I do believe she's probably giving you all she can at this point.

 

Are you as busy as she is?

 

I guess you're right. You definitely caught me there. Yeah, that sounds a lot like what she says. I think you're right. She's doing the best she can.

 

I work 45 hours a week, am currently taking two classes for fun (I already went to grad school)...but no, I don't think so. Every other week, her life is hell. Occasionally there's two weeks in a row where it's nothing but studying.

 

People are moved by feelings. That is what motivates their actions. She is certain of her desire to be a doctor. She is not so certain of her desire to spend the rest of her life with you

 

Terrifying though it is, I think I agree with you. I hoped my fears wouldn't be confirmed, but you're right.

 

Still...she makes every effort she can. She sacrifices on study weeks to spend time together and it's not like talking about those things has ceased all together.

 

I don't know...

[Miss Spider]

Sorry. You're great too. I don't mean to be a bearer of bad news. I could just say I believe that it's all gonna work out wonderfully but I have seen how these things go when someone is completely invested but feels like something is "off" and the other party isn't and it's often devastating for them because they've been planning a future that never comes to fruition so they're lost. Just calling it like I see it.

 

I think you're great too cautiously optimistic' and you may very well be right about this. I respect your opinionsand they're true to your username:)

[smackie9]

maybe it's time to separate for awhile, you know, take a time out from each other for a few months to reassess.

[coolheadal]

Where do I start to tell you the truth about this complication you have going with her.

 

1. She's lost interest in you.

2. Time and space request is just an excuse (see 1.)

3. She'll never marry you. (see 1.)

4. No communication everyday like prior (see 1.)

5. She tells you she very busy always (see 1.)

 

My friend you need to stop contacting her like you are doing, because (see 1.) and that's why. You stop pleasing her, she's not worth it anymore because (see 1.)

 

Frankly that's it, but you continue and your in not stopping from being in denial! Of all this you know why she's doing and saying hardly anything. You just can't understand why? Because (see 1.)

 

Let give you some advise man to man okay. If a woman is really interested in you she would contact you without doubt in her mind! This is not the case with you and her. Your doing all the contacting your looking needy to her also creepy, if I was you STOP IT RIGHT NOW!

Edited October 25, 2017 by coolheadal

[knabe]

She doesn't dodge the question, she openly brings up the future and having kids. It's really just that she said that the expectation of marriage is putting pressure on her feelings and that when she feels like she's ready, she doesn't want for it to be because of an expectation to get married (e.g., as is customary in Islam), but instead because she's sure.

 

But maybe you're right. That's what I'm afraid of . I guess I don't really know what to do or how to behave.

 

Would it be better for me to just treat this like a relationship and not something that has a possibility of a real future?

 

This is the key. This is a young woman with traditional expectations from her family AND the rigor of medical school. And basically her man - rather than supporting in a flexible way and giving her space - expects daily tending and high amounts of reassurance. She's probably feeling completely overwhelmed and suffocated. She probably feels like she has 50 plates spinning and about 30 of them are you and she's just...exhausted.

 

So YOU need to tone down the selfishness and put yourself in her overwhelmed shoes. You don't have to talk about the future all the time. It will or won't happen. Find a life outside of HER so she can meet her immediate responsibilities.

 

Being someone who gets overwhelmed like that, I can tell you that when push comes to shove, if it all gets to be too much, YOU will be the one she lets go of in order not to drown.

[Miss Spider]

Very much so. Your best shot is to back off. Felt suffocated reading this. It sounds very clingy and no doubt turning her away from you with everything she has going on. Take it easy and don't put all your eggs here

[Unordinary_Feelings]

maybe it's time to separate for awhile, you know, take a time out from each other for a few months to reassess.

 

We've discussed it and neither of us wants to break up or take a break. We don't really believe in that.

 

Where do I start to tell you the truth about this complication you have going with her.

 

1. She's lost interest in you.

2. Time and space request is just an excuse (see 1.)

3. She'll never marry you. (see 1.)

4. No communication everyday like prior (see 1.)

5. She tells you she very busy always (see 1.)

 

My friend you need to stop contacting her like you are doing, because (see 1.) and that's why. You stop pleasing her, she's not worth it anymore because (see 1.)

 

Frankly that's it, but you continue and your in not stopping from being in denial! Of all this you know why she's doing and saying hardly anything. You just can't understand why? Because (see 1.)

 

Let give you some advise man to man okay. If a woman is really interested in you she would contact you without doubt in her mind! This is not the case with you and her. Your doing all the contacting your looking needy to her also creepy, if I was you STOP IT RIGHT NOW!

 

I don't think you're posting on the correct forum? She's my girlfriend and she asks to see me and cares about our relationship.

 

In fact, this morning she asked me if her love was enough for me. I'm asking for some sensible advice. I'm not sure why you're "shouting."

 

This is the key. This is a young woman with traditional expectations from her family AND the rigor of medical school. And basically her man - rather than supporting in a flexible way and giving her space - expects daily tending and high amounts of reassurance. She's probably feeling completely overwhelmed and suffocated. She probably feels like she has 50 plates spinning and about 30 of them are you and she's just...exhausted.

 

So YOU need to tone down the selfishness and put yourself in her overwhelmed shoes. You don't have to talk about the future all the time. It will or won't happen. Find a life outside of HER so she can meet her immediate responsibilities.

 

Being someone who gets overwhelmed like that, I can tell you that when push comes to shove, if it all gets to be too much, YOU will be the one she lets go of in order not to drown.

 

Yeah, this is sensible. I know that you're right. As I mentioned, I'm doing my best to adapt. I'm not trying to be clingy. Like I said, it's a little more complicated than that. She spent most of our relationship asking me for more. Asking me to be all in.

 

Now that I am, things have gotten busier. The two of us are trying to navigate that together. I recognize that I've got things to work on, but the harshness is rather unnecessary.

 

I get it. I'll give her space.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

This is the key. This is a young woman with traditional expectations from her family AND the rigor of medical school. And basically her man - rather than supporting in a flexible way and giving her space - expects daily tending and high amounts of reassurance. She's probably feeling completely overwhelmed and suffocated. She probably feels like she has 50 plates spinning and about 30 of them are you and she's just...exhausted.

 

So YOU need to tone down the selfishness and put yourself in her overwhelmed shoes. You don't have to talk about the future all the time. It will or won't happen. Find a life outside of HER so she can meet her immediate responsibilities.

 

Being someone who gets overwhelmed like that, I can tell you that when push comes to shove, if it all gets to be too much, YOU will be the one she lets go of in order not to drown.

 

All of this is spot on in my opinion, especially the bolded part.

 

UF, you sound like you might be more suited to the kind of time and energy a secretary can provide, not a future doctor . I'm not at all suggesting you break up with this woman, but I think you need to evaluate your "must haves" in a relationship and decide if this relationship is meet your needs.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

She spent most of our relationship asking me for more. Asking me to be all in.

 

Now that I am, things have gotten busier. The two of us are trying to navigate that together.

 

You don't think that she's at fault for this, do you?

[Unordinary_Feelings]

You don't think that she's at fault for this, do you?

 

Of course not! I'm not trying to be unreasonable. I'm just confused. I feel like I'm under fire, but I'm doing my best too.

[coolheadal]

We've discussed it and neither of us wants to break up or take a break. We don't really believe in that.

 

 

 

I don't think you're posting on the correct forum? She's my girlfriend and she asks to see me and cares about our relationship.

 

In fact, this morning she asked me if her love was enough for me. I'm asking for some sensible advice. I'm not sure why you're "shouting."

 

 

 

Yeah, this is sensible. I know that you're right. As I mentioned, I'm doing my best to adapt. I'm not trying to be clingy. Like I said, it's a little more complicated than that. She spent most of our relationship asking me for more. Asking me to be all in.

 

Now that I am, things have gotten busier. The two of us are trying to navigate that together. I recognize that I've got things to work on, but the harshness is rather unnecessary.

 

I get it. I'll give her space.

 

I read and have the computer read back what you said and Yes I am ont he same forum as you thread. She can be telling you anything you want to hear my friend. They like to control you but you'll never pick it up. So she ask you if her love was enough for you? That's a question you have to share with us all. She has doubt already about the love she has for you. But you are telling us all here how you see things going. If you don't want the advise from us her then you have to figure her out. You said it was complicated well it sure is if you don't want to listen to use. Girl friend or not she's has doubts already and that's not a good sign my friend.

[coolheadal]

We've discussed it and neither of us wants to break up or take a break. We don't really believe in that.

 

 

 

I don't think you're posting on the correct forum? She's my girlfriend and she asks to see me and cares about our relationship.

 

In fact, this morning she asked me if her love was enough for me. I'm asking for some sensible advice. I'm not sure why you're "shouting."

 

 

 

Yeah, this is sensible. I know that you're right. As I mentioned, I'm doing my best to adapt. I'm not trying to be clingy. Like I said, it's a little more complicated than that. She spent most of our relationship asking me for more. Asking me to be all in.

 

Now that I am, things have gotten busier. The two of us are trying to navigate that together. I recognize that I've got things to work on, but the harshness is rather unnecessary.

 

I get it. I'll give her space.

 

I read and have the computer read back what you said and Yes I am on t he same forum as you thread. She's telling you anything you want to hear my friend. They like to control you but you'll never pick it up. So she ask you if her love was enough for you? That's a question you have to share with us all. She has doubt already about the love she has for you. But you are telling us all here how you see things going. If you don't want the advise from us her then you have to figure her out. You said it was complicated well it sure is if you don't want to listen to use. Girl friend or not she's has doubts already and that's not a good sign my friend.

[knabe]

Of course not! I'm not trying to be unreasonable. I'm just confused. I feel like I'm under fire, but I'm doing my best too.

 

I am sorry if my reply seemed abrupt. But that does tell me more about your specific personality (and no, that was not meant as a jab). If my response seemed harsh and "under fire" to you, that tells me that you are a sensitive person. That means it will be harder for you not to "read into" things, need assurance, etc.

 

There is nothing wrong with being that kind of person. People are who they are. BUT if your girlfriend is not, AND she is busy trying to stay above water...being really sensitive won't work in your favor. That is not harsh. That is a fact.

 

They like to control you but you'll never pick it up.

 

I will say as an actual woman that people who make blanket statements about all women using terms like "they" are usually not as in touch with the female "hive mind" as they think. So try not to get too discouraged.