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Not sure if I gave her too much pressure + general philosophy on communication.

Carolina55

By Carolina55
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Carolina55 Member

Carolina55

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Hey y'all. This will be long but hopefully worth your time. Many thanks to anyone who takes the time to respond :)

 

Background about me: 31 years old, single. Six months out of a serious-ish relationship. I'm at a point in my life where I'm feeling pretty confident in myself and my desirability in general. Been dating for six months now. I've not been headstrong on finding a relationship, mostly just having fun but keeping my eye open for a girl who's really compatible with me.

 

Went on a date with a girl through Bumble (an app like Tinder). I was impressed with the first date and took her out again the next week. We got some food, drinks, and laughed and talked and got to know each other. She dropped into conversation that she recently got out of a two year relationship, and was "trying to figure things out". That seemed like a small red flag to me. I've had bad experiences trying to date women who were recently single.

 

Towards the end of the date she grabbed me and kissed me. The sparks were flying at this point, and I was feeling a bit smitten. Though something told me that I needed more clarification. As we were both about to say good night (I didn't think sex was in the works that evening), I said to her:

 

Me: So, not to make things heavy or anything, but what are looking for?

Her: No, thank you for asking! I know you don't want to hear this, but I don't know what I want. I don't think I'm looking for anything serious. Or casual for that matter.

Me: Hm, okay. Well that's cool. I mean I'm interested in you but let's just see what happens.

 

She gave me a big kiss and said, "see you soon." I let things breathe for a day or two but honestly had a bad feeling about it. She then texted me with this:

 

Her: Hey! I had a really good time the other night and I'm obviously very attracted to you, but I just don't know what I want right now and I don't want to waste your time.

 

Some people might not read this as her flat out saying she didn't want to see me again, but I saw it as her saying pretty clearly, "Don't invest much in me." In other words, it's her very polite way of saying she's not interested. I wasn't keen on dragging things out, and I definitely wasn't looking for an eff-buddy situation.

 

Me: Well that's disappointing but I understand. You've been the first girl in a while I've cared to go on a second date with. But you can't change where you're at and I respect that. Just drop me a line if you do figure out what you want.

 

Her: Well thank you! I appreciate that.

 

Let me stress that I don't "lack game." I spent a lot of time in the Pickup Artist Community and am pretty experienced at this point. I know in dating there's something to be said for mystery, making the girl chase, etc... and in the past I definitely hid my feelings when I liked a girl. But experience showed me that it really didn't make a difference and just complicated things. Also, my therapist has strongly encouraged me not to be afraid to communicate.

 

But still, there's this nagging, pathologically anxious side of my brain that keeps saying, "Had you just played the game right and not shown so much interest, you could have made her come around." FWIW I've played that angle with women in the past and it didn't work.

 

My female friends assure me that dating doesn't come down to these trifling, microscopic errors. If a person feels a certain way about you, there's not much that'll change that - certainly not asking, "what are you looking for?". That's the narrative I want to believe. I do feel like she was simply on her own trajectory and that trajectory didn't include me. I want to be at peace with that, but the rejection still stings, and makes me wonder if I couldn't have played it a bit cooler with her.

 

What are your thoughts?

Edited by Carolina55
Gaeta Established Member

Gaeta

Posted
Posted

My female friends assure me that dating doesn't come down to these trifling, microscopic errors. If a person feels a certain way about you, there's not much that'll change that. That's the narrative I want to believe. I do feel like she was simply on her own trajectory and that trajectory didn't include me. I want to be at peace with that, but the rejection still stings, and makes me wonder if I couldn't have played it a bit cooler with her.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

Your female friends are right.

 

Always amazes me that men think they can win women over with a 'game'.

 

The game works when the woman is into you to start with, with or without the game she would have liked you. The same with the opposite, if she's not feeling it with you, no amount of game will make her change her mind.

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Carolina55 Member

Carolina55

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Your female friends are right.

 

Always amazes me that men think they can win women over with a 'game'.

 

The game works when the woman is into you to start with, with or without the game she would have liked you. The same with the opposite, if she's not feeling it with you, no amount of game will make her change her mind.

 

Thank you, and as my post hopefully suggests, I'm moving further and further from that type of thinking. Rejection triggered those thoughts in me long before I discovered the world of PUA, and unfortunately, the Pickup Artist community gives fuel to that type of thinking - "Don't be so needy next time! You've got to play the game! Make her chase you!"

 

It's been years since I gave up on that Game bull****, but when rejection occurs I occasionally wonder if there's not a grain of truth to it. That's why forums like this are so helpful.

Gaeta Established Member

Gaeta

Posted
Posted
Thank you, and as my post hopefully suggests, I'm moving further and further from that type of thinking. Rejection triggered those thoughts in me long before I discovered the world of PUA, and unfortunately, the Pickup Artist community gives fuel to that type of thinking - "Don't be so needy next time! You've got to play the game! Make her chase you!"

 

It's been years since I gave up on that Game bull****, but when rejection occurs I occasionally wonder if there's not a grain of truth to it. That's why forums like this are so helpful.

 

If you spend time on here you'll see women make a point of not chasing men at the very beginning. There's an understanding it's a man's job to show his interest then the lady gives him a green light or a red light.

 

This PUA teaching goes against everything happening in real life.

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Miss Spider Established Member

Miss Spider

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"Let me stress that I don't "lack game." I spent a lot of time in the Pickup Artist Community"

 

 

I want to be completely blunt. It is a little awkward how you asked it and I feel like since you went to the PUA community you might be one of those guys who struggles a bit with this. Men who turn to PUA and communities along that vein tend to be the type that think too much entirely to begin with.

 

And it's not attractive. While I agree it wasn't the couple sentences you highlighted that made her lose interest, in your post I can see fragments of evidence of this larger issue. When people analyze a situation this much they tend to be trying very hard to reach a goal and a person will get that try-hard vibe and be turned off.

 

"Me: So, not to make things heavy or anything, but what are looking for?"

 

Did you really say it like that? Just by adding some words you've already implicated your mindset (you're getting heavy) and you're worried of how she may view you asking that question. JUST WHY?!

 

And if you are looking for casual - to see where it goes - why are you even asking that question...Especially considering she already said she was "figuring things out"?

 

 

"Her: No, thank you for asking! I know you don't want to hear this, but I don't know what I want. I don't think I'm looking for anything serious. Or casual for that matter."

 

She already knows, after the second date, you are getting heavy. She already knows what you want and that you don't want to hear this!!! How did that happen? There's not using "Game bull****" and then there's coming off way heavy on the 2nd date/barely any conversation. I did this intentionally in attempt to turn people off when I became bored of dating and wanted to see what I could get away with and still continue to be asked out. Call it reverse game.

 

 

"Me: Hm, okay. Well that's cool. I mean I'm interested in you but let's just see what happens."

 

:confused:

Edited by Cookiesandough
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Carolina55 Member

Carolina55

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"Let me stress that I don't "lack game." I spent a lot of time in the Pickup Artist Community"

 

 

I want to be completely blunt. It is a little awkward how you asked it and I feel like since you went to the PUA community you might be one of those guys who struggles a bit with this. Men who turn to PUA and communities along that vein tend to be the type that think too much entirely to begin with.

 

And it's not attractive. While I agree it wasn't the couple sentences you highlighted that made her lose interest, in your post I can see fragments of evidence of this larger issue. When people analyze a situation this much they tend to be trying very hard to reach a goal and a person will get that try-hard vibe and be turned off.

 

"Me: So, not to make things heavy or anything, but what are looking for?"

 

Did you really say it like that? Just by adding some words you've already implicated your mindset (you're getting heavy) and you're worried of how she may view you asking that question. JUST WHY?!

 

And if you are looking for casual - to see where it goes - why are you even asking that question...Especially considering she already said she was "figuring things out"?

 

 

"Her: No, thank you for asking! I know you don't want to hear this, but I don't know what I want. I don't think I'm looking for anything serious. Or casual for that matter."

 

She already knows, after the second date, you are getting heavy. She already knows what you want and that you don't want to hear this!!! How did that happen? There's not using "Game bull****" and then there's coming off way heavy on the 2nd date/barely any conversation. I did this intentionally in attempt to turn people off when I became bored of dating and wanted to see what I could get away with and still continue to be asked out. Call it reverse game.

 

 

"Me: Hm, okay. Well that's cool. I mean I'm interested in you but let's just see what happens."

 

:confused:

 

I'm sure there's truth to all of what you're saying. But I also don't know how fair of a reflection it is on my behavior or goals. I mean, during the date I focused on just us having fun and having lots of conversation. All this over-analysis came days after the fact.

 

I did feel a lot of affection towards her, very soon, and perhaps I should have done a better job of pumping my breaks. But liking someone is not exactly try-hard or having an agenda. Asking someone what they're looking for is communication and the opposite of any kind of game, imo.

 

At the end of the day, would any of this even changed the final outcome? Would we have continued seeing each other had I taken a different approach?

 

In any case I thank you for your feedback and will take it to heart.

Edited by Carolina55
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Highndry Established Member

Highndry

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Posted

I would not have responded to her text with such detail and praise.

 

"No worries, thanks." would have been my reply, if anything at all.

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Miss Spider Established Member

Miss Spider

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I'm sure there's truth to all of what you're saying. But I also don't know how fair of a reflection it is on my behavior or goals. I mean, during the date I focused on just us having fun and having lots of conversation. All this over-analysis came days after the fact.

 

I did feel a lot of affection towards her, very soon, and perhaps I should have done a better job of pumping my breaks. But liking someone is not exactly try-hard or having an agenda. Asking someone what they're looking for is communication and the opposite of any kind of game, imo.

 

At the end of the day, would any of this even changed the final outcome? Would we have continued seeing each other had I taken a different approach?

 

In any case I thank you for your feedback and will take it to heart.

NP! The exchange where you asked what she's looking for alone? Possibly, but unlikely. More likely, it is something else that the exchange was indicative of.

 

If she is just out of relationship, she could still be confused about what she wants. If she feels too much expectations right off the bat (sounds by her response she already saw expectations for a result before you asked), her gut instinct may be to not proceed.

 

She could have lost interest for a myriad of other reasons or never even had much to begin with. I guess my point was that I just see a lot of self-doubt and think building your self-confidence and working on self-improvement is important, if you're not already doing so. That means being sure of what you want and not being wishy washy and settling for less. It means not doubting your actions or trying to figure out the right formula or strategy to make a specific person interested. etc etc .

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kendahke Established Member

kendahke

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"Had you just played the game

 

this is where I stopped reading.

 

Don't play games. Children play games.

 

She's fresh out of a relationship and generally speaking, she really shouldn't be on a dating app if she doesn't want to date, but she is and she was honest in her answer to you to keep yourself in check.

 

She doesn't want to fall for the first guy and quite frankly, you don't want to be the rebound, right?

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kendahke Established Member

kendahke

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I'm sure there's truth to all of what you're saying. But I also don't know how fair of a reflection it is on my behavior or goals.

 

No... everything Cookies said was truth.

 

And we only know what you post and going by your first post, her observations and advice were right on the target.

rushed Established Member

rushed

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She gave me a big kiss and said, "see you soon." I let things breathe for a day or two but honestly had a bad feeling about it. She then texted me with this:

 

Her: Hey! I had a really good time the other night and I'm obviously very attracted to you, but I just don't know what I want right now and I don't want to waste your time.

 

"I let things breathe for a day or two" - So you didn't text her after you last saw her? Why?

 

Her text could have several meanings:

 

1) Fishing: I'm wondering why you haven't texted me. You must not like me. But I like you. Let me reach out, but in a way that it looks like I'm not desperate. Chase me, please.

 

2) Booty call.

 

3) Had fun. Thanks. Have a good life.

 

Of course, it's all speculation. Only she knows what she really meant.

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Carolina55 Member

Carolina55

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NP! The exchange where you asked what she's looking for alone? Possibly, but unlikely. More likely, it is something else that the exchange was indicative of.

 

If she is just out of relationship, she could still be confused about what she wants. If she feels too much expectations right off the bat (sounds by her response she already saw expectations for a result before you asked), her gut instinct may be to not proceed.

 

She could have lost interest for a myriad of other reasons or never even had much to begin with. I guess my point was that I just see a lot of self-doubt and think building your self-confidence and working on self-improvement is important, if you're not already doing so. That means being sure of what you want and not being wishy washy and settling for less. It means not doubting your actions or trying to figure out the right formula or strategy to make a specific person interested. etc etc .

 

Well said.

 

About those last two sentences though... correct me if I'm wrong but it almost sounds as if you're suggesting I be even more bold in going after what I want. As in, I tell a girl "I'm looking for X - take it or leave it" - in more congenial terms, obviously.

 

That seems like it would weed out a lot of women, but might be simpler and easier in the long run. Am I understanding correctly?

Highndry Established Member

Highndry

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My opinion, so take it with a grain of salt:

 

Don't even ruminate over anything. You did fine, and I think you should just be yourself. As a middle aged guy, I don't really put a lot of stock into that PUA stuff. I had never even heard of it until recently.

 

I would go so far as to say that any woman worth your while who's attracted to you won't have you under a microscope, but will just be happy you're spending time with her. I don't think this stuff is nearly as complicated as it may seem at times.

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Carolina55 Member

Carolina55

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She doesn't want to fall for the first guy and quite frankly, you don't want to be the rebound, right?

 

No, that makes perfect sense and it's honestly the explanation that's most comforting to me.

Divasu Established Member

Divasu

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My understanding of the "Pick Up Community" is that it is designed to put women down not build them up for the goal of sleeping with them.

 

Not good...

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Carolina55 Member

Carolina55

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"I let things breathe for a day or two" - So you didn't text her after you last saw her? Why?

 

Her text could have several meanings:

 

1) Fishing: I'm wondering why you haven't texted me. You must not like me. But I like you. Let me reach out, but in a way that it looks like I'm not desperate. Chase me, please.

 

2) Booty call.

 

3) Had fun. Thanks. Have a good life.

 

Of course, it's all speculation. Only she knows what she really meant.

 

I suppose I mis-wrote that. Here's what actually happened:

 

I waited about 24 hours and then texted her a funny, lighthearted text calling back an inside joke from the date.

 

She didn't text back for another 24 hours and said,

 

"Lol, hey I just wanted to check in and say I had a really good time the other night and I'm obviously very attracted to you, but I don't know what I want and I don't want to waste your time."

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Carolina55 Member

Carolina55

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My understanding of the "Pick Up Community" is that it is designed to put women down not build them up for the goal of sleeping with them.

 

Not good...

 

In its classic and most notorious iteration, yes. But it's been about 5 years since I've messed with any of that, and even then I didn't follow it's more egregious methods.

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Carolina55 Member

Carolina55

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My opinion, so take it with a grain of salt:

 

Don't even ruminate over anything. You did fine, and I think you should just be yourself. As a middle aged guy, I don't really put a lot of stock into that PUA stuff. I had never even heard of it until recently.

 

I would go so far as to say that any woman worth your while who's attracted to you won't have you under a microscope, but will just be happy you're spending time with her. I don't think this stuff is nearly as complicated as it may seem at times.

 

Yeah, most of the PUA stuff is garbage. Its really only benefit is that it gets men out talking to women.

 

And thank you, that second paragraph is very reassuring.

CoolJoe Established Member

CoolJoe

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When a girl likes you, she'll let you know in no uncertain terms.

 

This girl didn't like you (enough) to pursue. Sure, if you played your cards closer to the vest, might this dating continue one extra date? Maybe? Who's to say yes or no. Bottom line, she didn't seem interested enough, and if she was, asking straight up what are you looking for shouldn't turn her off from you. The fact that she more or less rejected you tells me this situation wouldn't have changed much even if you played your cards differently.

 

Reminds me of a date I went on with a girl I thought we were really hitting it off. She showed me all the signs, even talked about wanting anal sex with me down the road. At the end of the first date I went to kiss her. As I went in for the kiss, she gave me a funny look. I kissed her and it was super awkward.

 

The next day she said it made her feel weird and not to contact her ever again.

 

This coming from a girl who told me on the first date she wanted anal sex down the road (with me). Had I not kissed her, maybe things would have moved along. But I have no regrets. I found out she's not into me and now I have an awesome GF. Life is good.

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Imajerk17 Established Member

Imajerk17

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Well, I think the detail that the OP was in the PUA Community is looked on a bit closely here. Especially because the OP did precisely the OPPOSITE of what most in the PUA Community advise.

 

I agree with what the others said about how PUA is unrealistic. It's not at all an accurate model of how men and women really end up getting together. If a woman isn't into you on a date, then Running The Cube won't save anything, neither will a Neg. If she IS into you though, doing that stuff is just likely to come across weird.

 

You aren't going to like my take on how you handled things though.

 

In this instance, I do find myself wondering why you brought up the "what are you looking for" so soon. It does seem early to me to be bringing it up. I mean, you were still ascertaining whether you like each other after only two dates. Relationships take time, at this point you still are only starting to get comfortable with each other. By asking her what she was looking for so soon--and at the end of the date too (no time to talk about it some more), it sounds like you were pressing her for an answer already whether she liked you or not. What was your rush.

Edited by Imajerk17
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Carolina55 Member

Carolina55

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When a girl likes you, she'll let you know in no uncertain terms.

 

This girl didn't like you (enough) to pursue. Sure, if you played your cards closer to the vest, might this dating continue one extra date? Maybe? Who's to say yes or no. Bottom line, she didn't seem interested enough, and if she was, asking straight up what are you looking for shouldn't turn her off from you. The fact that she more or less rejected you tells me this situation wouldn't have changed much even if you played your cards differently.

 

True that. Reminds of a FWB situation I was in years ago. I started developing feelings for the girl, but kept them to myself. Women can pick up on that nonetheless and eventually they began to leak, and then she disappeared.

 

Had I shown her those feelings earlier, then things would have ended even sooner. Had I kept them even more bottled up, I might could have made it drag on a month or two longer. Either way it was destined to end the same way.

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