Girlfriend with OCD

[Jitsdude]

I'm not sure if this is the right section for this but I'm struggling with my girlfriend's (undiagnosed) OCD. I’ve been with her for just under a year. We’re both in our 30s. Her apparent OCD mostly has to do with cleanliness. To sum it up, her condo is considered clean while everything outside is considered dirty. If you’ve been outside, you need to change your clothes before being allowed to sit on the couch or really touch anything. Shopping bags, backpacks or anything that’s been outside are only allowed in designated spots in the apartment. There’s a mat by the door that’s for shoes and you’re not allowed to step off the mat with your shoes on or on the mat with your shoes off. These are just a few examples. Breaking any of the rules causes a huge amount of anxiety and means that the contaminated area has to be wiped down with Lysol. She’s comfortable being outside her apartment and leaving her rules at home, including when she’s at my place. But her home is her sanctuary and it absolutely must be “clean”.

 

From what I've read, this fits OCD really well. Another symptom that one source talks about is repeatedly checking in on loved ones to make sure they’re safe. This is exactly what she and her family members do. But it gets more interesting – my girlfriend and her sisters and mother all live this way. They were raised to think that these rules were normal and have lived with them their whole lives. As you can probably guess, they’re extremely close. The sisters lived together through university and the condo is still set up for all of them – one sister is happily married but still basically lives at that condo least half the week, and the other sister still has a bedroom there despite living in another city. Her sister’s husband completely bought in to the cleanliness rules and has adopted that lifestyle. My girlfriend takes any kind of criticism of her family very personally and seriously. They all reinforce this same condition in each other. I often wonder how all of them could possibly suffer from the same thing and how much of it is nurture vs nature.

 

While we’re not close to the point of living together, I decided that I could never live that way. At least not without her trying to address the problem. So we talked about it and she understands that she has a condition, how irrational it is, and believes that it’s OCD. But she’s perfectly comfortable living that way and doesn’t see it as a problem. Her suggestion of a compromise if we were ever to live together is to get separate apartments and split our time between the two. In mine she’d live by my rules, in hers I’d live by hers. I thought she was joking at first but it’s a serious suggestion.

 

There’s a lot more I could write but I’ll leave it for now. I love her but her personality can be quite, shall way say, combative. That combined with everything else creates so much potential for conflict, even with her compromise solution.

 

I’d be interested in any feedback you guys have.

[Paljoey]

These precautions she has in place are definitely not normal. If she keeps coming up with new ways to stay "clean". Def red flag of OCD. If thing stay the same though and she doesn't develop new habits I think your good. The changing clothes to sit on a couch is real weird though. Unless ur a dirty bum... are u?

[Logo]

The fact that her behavior is reinforced by her family doesn't help one bit.

 

Do you see yourself marrying her? If so, what kind of upbringing do you expect your children to have? Just something to think about.

 

We tend to focus on the ten feet ahead, but we often forget to look farther down the road.

[d0nnivain]

If you can't see yourself living this way, you need to end this relationship. She is not going to change because she thinks this is normal.

[Redhead14]

I'm not sure if this is the right section for this but I'm struggling with my girlfriend's (undiagnosed) OCD. I’ve been with her for just under a year. We’re both in our 30s. Her apparent OCD mostly has to do with cleanliness. To sum it up, her condo is considered clean while everything outside is considered dirty. If you’ve been outside, you need to change your clothes before being allowed to sit on the couch or really touch anything. Shopping bags, backpacks or anything that’s been outside are only allowed in designated spots in the apartment. There’s a mat by the door that’s for shoes and you’re not allowed to step off the mat with your shoes on or on the mat with your shoes off. These are just a few examples. Breaking any of the rules causes a huge amount of anxiety and means that the contaminated area has to be wiped down with Lysol. She’s comfortable being outside her apartment and leaving her rules at home, including when she’s at my place. But her home is her sanctuary and it absolutely must be “clean”.

 

From what I've read, this fits OCD really well. Another symptom that one source talks about is repeatedly checking in on loved ones to make sure they’re safe. This is exactly what she and her family members do. But it gets more interesting – my girlfriend and her sisters and mother all live this way. They were raised to think that these rules were normal and have lived with them their whole lives. As you can probably guess, they’re extremely close. The sisters lived together through university and the condo is still set up for all of them – one sister is happily married but still basically lives at that condo least half the week, and the other sister still has a bedroom there despite living in another city. Her sister’s husband completely bought in to the cleanliness rules and has adopted that lifestyle. My girlfriend takes any kind of criticism of her family very personally and seriously. They all reinforce this same condition in each other. I often wonder how all of them could possibly suffer from the same thing and how much of it is nurture vs nature.

 

While we’re not close to the point of living together, I decided that I could never live that way. At least not without her trying to address the problem. So we talked about it and she understands that she has a condition, how irrational it is, and believes that it’s OCD. But she’s perfectly comfortable living that way and doesn’t see it as a problem. Her suggestion of a compromise if we were ever to live together is to get separate apartments and split our time between the two. In mine she’d live by my rules, in hers I’d live by hers. I thought she was joking at first but it’s a serious suggestion.

 

There’s a lot more I could write but I’ll leave it for now. I love her but her personality can be quite, shall way say, combative. That combined with everything else creates so much potential for conflict, even with her compromise solution.

 

I’d be interested in any feedback you guys have.

 

What compromise is she offering regarding her combativeness? She's only going to kick your rear with only her left foot when you aren't compliant with her rules?

[Jitsdude]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

 

These precautions she has in place are definitely not normal. If she keeps coming up with new ways to stay "clean". Def red flag of OCD. If thing stay the same though and she doesn't develop new habits I think your good. The changing clothes to sit on a couch is real weird though. Unless ur a dirty bum... are u?

lol no. It's like that with everyone. She rarely has people over and when she does and they don't follow her rules, she has to Lysol everything they touched.

 

The fact that her behavior is reinforced by her family doesn't help one bit.

 

Do you see yourself marrying her? If so, what kind of upbringing do you expect your children to have? Just something to think about.

 

We tend to focus on the ten feet ahead, but we often forget to look farther down the road.

Yeah, her relationship with her family is like a self contained bubble and her whole world view comes from that small group. We've never talked much about kids. I've really only thought about what it would be like to live with her and I decided we needed to discuss it.

 

What compromise is she offering regarding her combativeness? She's only going to kick your rear with only her left foot when you aren't compliant with her rules?

That's the thing, when I mentioned that I can't see myself living by her rules, that's when she mentioned living in separate but adjacent places as a compromise. She can't deal with living with someone who doesn't follow her rules so maintaining separate residences is the only option she can think of. Still, that's an unusual arrangement to say the least and it amounts to me changing my life and habits to accommodate her disorder. And just like any health problem, that's totally reasonable if the disorder is being treated. But she has no interest in doing that. The way I see it, treating OCD isn't something that you do as a compromise for someone else, it's something you do for your own health.

 

Her personality tends to be either very happy and affectionate or ice cold, with very little in between. So when things are good between us they're amazing but we fight a lot. The back and forth is getting exhausting.

[coolheadal]

These precautions she has in place are definitely not normal. If she keeps coming up with new ways to stay "clean". Def red flag of OCD. If thing stay the same though and she doesn't develop new habits I think your good. The changing clothes to sit on a couch is real weird though. Unless ur a dirty bum... are u?

 

Nothing wrong having this condition at times I have it (germs I do not like them) but I know how to control it. I've dated a few women who had this also. Many friends have too just don't know until you live with them. LOL

Edited September 22, 2017 by coolheadal

[Downtown]

I'm struggling with my girlfriend's (undiagnosed) OCD.

JitsDude, perhaps your GF does exhibit some OCD. However, most of the behaviors you describe here are classic warning signs for OCPD (Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder). Although OCD and OCPD share some symptoms (and can occur together), the two disorders are largely unrelated. Whereas OCD is an anxiety disorder, OCPD is a personality disorder.

 

Importantly, I'm not suggesting that your GF has full-blown OCPD but, instead, that she may be exhibiting strong symptoms of it. Although these symptoms should be easy to spot whenever they occur strongly, only a professional can determine whether they are so strong and persistent as to constitute full-blown OCPD.

 

My girlfriend and her sisters ...were raised to think that these rules were normal.

If she exhibits strong OCPD traits, she feels no urgency to address the problem because she is not in distress. On the contrary, the numerous rules and rigid schedules she advocates are usually comforting and they feel right to her. As you observe, these obsessive rules seem "normal" and correct to your GF and her sisters.

 

OCPD and other PDs are said to be "egosyntonic," which means they are so consistent with the desires and needs of the person's ego that she is unaware that there is anything wrong or dysfunctional about them. She is convinced that her excessive standards and work ethic are not only reasonable but also the only right way to do things.

 

In contrast, a woman exhibiting OCD usually is aware that her obsessive behavior is unreasonable but she does it anyway to reduce the painful anxiety. To the extent she has an OCD problem, she will find the obsessions and compulsions to be stressful and very unpleasant. For example, a person obsessing over the possibility of having left the front door unlocked will experience strong anxiety and a knotted stomach. With OCD, the obsessive "door checking rule" doesn't feel right and is not comforting at all.

 

She’s perfectly comfortable living that way and doesn’t see it as a problem.

With OCD, apologies for the obsessive behavior tend to be common and sincere. The person oftentimes will feel guilty about asking others to conform to his rituals because he realizes the rituals are irrational and are only needed to reduce his anxiety. In contrast, a woman exhibiting strong OCPD symptoms only rarely apologizes. She rarely feels guilty because she is convinced that others should conform to her superior way of doing things. She believes they will be better off when following her directions.

 

She repeatedly checks in on loved ones to make sure they’re safe.

I agree with you that this is a symptom for OCD. This is why I noted earlier that she could exhibit both OCPD and OCD -- but you are primarily describing OCPD.

 

She can't deal with living with someone who doesn't follow her rules.

People exhibiting OCD generally do much, if not all, of the obsessive behavior themselves. They typically don't order others to do it for them. Generally, this obsessive behavior is done to reduce anxiety and it takes more than an hour a day.

 

In contrast, OCPD is better thought of as part of one's personality, not an activity unto itself. The need for perfectionism and control -- which you describe here -- is essentially a personality trait, not an activity that eats up time. Indeed, perfectionism is the key defining trait for OCPD, not for OCD. For more information on OCPD behaviors, you may want to take a look at the Mayo Clinic's list of 8 OCPD symptoms

 

Breaking any of the rules causes a huge amount of anxiety.

Yes, if the rules are broken in her home. Outside her home, however, she experiences no anxiety -- which is why she is so tolerant of being in other peoples' homes. Given that the lack of cleanliness produces no anxiety outside the home suggests to me that you are describing a symptom of OCPD, not OCD. That is, it suggests that you are describing a problem that is more rooted in personality than in simple anxiety.

 

She’s comfortable being outside her apartment and leaving her rules at home.

Most people having strong OCPD traits are high functioning and thus tend to do well outside the home -- e.g., in a business environment with business associates and clients. They may create a very detailed schedule, for example, that improves their efficiency at work. Anxiety therefore plays only a minor, if any, part of the picture. In contrast, the OCD sufferer usually is much less successful in a work environment because her compulsive rituals -- which are done to reduce anxiety -- often interfere with her ability to interact with other workers and clients.

 

Her personality tends to be either very happy and affectionate or ice cold, with very little in between. So when things are good between us they're amazing but we fight a lot. The back and forth is getting exhausting.

With OCPD, the perception of one's own actions and others' actions and beliefs tend to be polarized (i.e., "right" or "wrong", with little or no margin between the two). As might be expected, this rigid black/white perception of other peoples' intentions places a strain on interpersonal relationships.

 

Her personality can be quite, shall way say, combative.

The vast majority of people suffering from one PD also suffer from another PD as well. Hence, if your GF really does exhibit strong traits of OCPD, there is a good chance she also suffers from strong traits of another PD too. I mention this because strong anger issues -- wherein the aggression is shown either passively (e.g., "ice cold" withdrawal) or actively (e.g., verbal abuse) -- is a warning sign for BPD. Although you are describing only a few BPD symptoms, you nonetheless may benefit by taking a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar. Take care, JitsDude.

[Jitsdude]

JitsDude, perhaps your GF does exhibit some OCD. However, most of the behaviors you describe here are classic warning signs for OCPD (Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder). Although OCD and OCPD share some symptoms (and can occur together), the two disorders are largely unrelated. Whereas OCD is an anxiety disorder, OCPD is a personality disorder.

 

Importantly, I'm not suggesting that your GF has full-blown OCPD but, instead, that she may be exhibiting strong symptoms of it. Although these symptoms should be easy to spot whenever they occur strongly, only a professional can determine whether they are so strong and persistent as to constitute full-blown OCPD.

 

If she exhibits strong OCPD traits, she feels no urgency to address the problem because she is not in distress. On the contrary, the numerous rules and rigid schedules she advocates are usually comforting and they feel right to her. As you observe, these obsessive rules seem "normal" and correct to your GF and her sisters.

 

OCPD and other PDs are said to be "egosyntonic," which means they are so consistent with the desires and needs of the person's ego that she is unaware that there is anything wrong or dysfunctional about them. She is convinced that her excessive standards and work ethic are not only reasonable but also the only right way to do things.

 

In contrast, a woman exhibiting OCD usually is aware that her obsessive behavior is unreasonable but she does it anyway to reduce the painful anxiety. To the extent she has an OCD problem, she will find the obsessions and compulsions to be stressful and very unpleasant. For example, a person obsessing over the possibility of having left the front door unlocked will experience strong anxiety and a knotted stomach. With OCD, the obsessive "door checking rule" doesn't feel right and is not comforting at all.

 

With OCD, apologies for the obsessive behavior tend to be common and sincere. The person oftentimes will feel guilty about asking others to conform to his rituals because he realizes the rituals are irrational and are only needed to reduce his anxiety. In contrast, a woman exhibiting strong OCPD symptoms only rarely apologizes. She rarely feels guilty because she is convinced that others should conform to her superior way of doing things. She believes they will be better off when following her directions.

 

I agree with you that this is a symptom for OCD. This is why I noted earlier that she could exhibit both OCPD and OCD -- but you are primarily describing OCPD.

 

People exhibiting OCD generally do much, if not all, of the obsessive behavior themselves. They typically don't order others to do it for them. Generally, this obsessive behavior is done to reduce anxiety and it takes more than an hour a day.

 

In contrast, OCPD is better thought of as part of one's personality, not an activity unto itself. The need for perfectionism and control -- which you describe here -- is essentially a personality trait, not an activity that eats up time. Indeed, perfectionism is the key defining trait for OCPD, not for OCD. For more information on OCPD behaviors, you may want to take a look at the Mayo Clinic's list of 8 OCPD symptoms

 

Yes, if the rules are broken in her home. Outside her home, however, she experiences no anxiety -- which is why she is so tolerant of being in other peoples' homes. Given that the lack of cleanliness produces no anxiety outside the home suggests to me that you are describing a symptom of OCPD, not OCD. That is, it suggests that you are describing a problem that is more rooted in personality than in simple anxiety.

 

Most people having strong OCPD traits are high functioning and thus tend to do well outside the home -- e.g., in a business environment with business associates and clients. They may create a very detailed schedule, for example, that improves their efficiency at work. Anxiety therefore plays only a minor, if any, part of the picture. In contrast, the OCD sufferer usually is much less successful in a work environment because her compulsive rituals -- which are done to reduce anxiety -- often interfere with her ability to interact with other workers and clients.

 

With OCPD, the perception of one's own actions and others' actions and beliefs tend to be polarized (i.e., "right" or "wrong", with little or no margin between the two). As might be expected, this rigid black/white perception of other peoples' intentions places a strain on interpersonal relationships.

 

The vast majority of people suffering from one PD also suffer from another PD as well. Hence, if your GF really does exhibit strong traits of OCPD, there is a good chance she also suffers from strong traits of another PD too. I mention this because strong anger issues -- wherein the aggression is shown either passively (e.g., "ice cold" withdrawal) or actively (e.g., verbal abuse) -- is a warning sign for BPD. Although you are describing only a few BPD symptoms, you nonetheless may benefit by taking a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar. Take care, JitsDude.

Thanks for the lengthy reply, Downtown. That's a lot of personality disorders that I've never heard of. She is a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to her expectations of me, and some of her anger and our fights have stemmed from me not meeting something very specific. I've looked into bipolar before but none of the lists of symptoms I've seen before were quite like the one you linked to. She exhibits a lot of them, especially at the top of the list.

 

In the OCPD link, it mentions that personality disorders are partly caused by environment and relationships, and that while your genes may make you susceptible to a disorder, a life situation may trigger the actual development. This would explain why her entire immediate family has the exact same condition.

 

Ultimately which specific disorder(s) she suffers from doesn't matter all that much. The more I research this the more it occurs to me that she needs professional advice and treatment of some kind or else I can't be with her.

[Downtown]

I've looked into bipolar before but none of the lists of symptoms I've seen before were quite like the one you linked to.

That's because I wasn't referring to bipolar (BP). Rather, I was referring to Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). They are very different. Both BPD and OCPD are personality disorders that cannot be treated with medication. In contrast, BP and OCD are "clinical disorders" (i.e., not PDs) and thus can be treated with medication.

 

The more I research this the more it occurs to me that she needs professional advice and treatment of some kind or else I can't be with her.

Smart decision. The primary reason for learning to recognize these warning signs is to realize that she may have a serious disorder that you can neither tolerate nor fix -- i.e., loving her is not going to make it better because she can only fix herself with professional guidance. A secondary reason for learning the warning signs is to be able to protect yourself -- i.e., to avoid running right into the arms of another woman just like this one.

[Jitsdude]

That's because I wasn't referring to bipolar (BP). Rather, I was referring to Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). They are very different. Both BPD and OCPD are personality disorders that cannot be treated with medication. In contrast, BP and OCD are "clinical disorders" (i.e., not PDs) and thus can be treated with medication.

 

Smart decision. The primary reason for learning to recognize these warning signs is to realize that she may have a serious disorder that you can neither tolerate nor fix -- i.e., loving her is not going to make it better because she can only fix herself with professional guidance. A secondary reason for learning the warning signs is to be able to protect yourself -- i.e., to avoid running right into the arms of another woman just like this one.

 

It was just occuring to me that you were talking about borderline personality disorder. This is what happens when I post before leaving for work in the morning Thanks for the clarification between the two types of disorders. I'll read up on them some more tonight and on the weekend.

[Gaeta]

To me it sounds more like 'conditioning' than OCD. If all of your life you have seen your mom act a certain way and she taught you to act the same way that is *conditioning* and conditioning can be reversed with therapy. Same with calling everyone around to make sure they are ok *conditioning*.

 

That being said whether it's a real case of OCD or conditioning she doesn't want to address it *for you*. You need to decide if you are in it or not. If you agree to be in it, then you need to play it like the brother-in-law.

 

That being said, in your case, I don't find appropriate you will be the only one doing the compromising. She's saying it's her way or the highway. It's not a philosophy that will bring you a long happy relationship.

[smackie9]

I tell you right now, OCD carries other negative things with it, like hording, and passive aggressiveness, that will cause a lot of resentment. I have deal with people who have this disorder and over time it wears you down. Right now I'm dealing with a OCD hording client, that passive aggressively accused us as the ones responsible for holding up her claim from getting closed. I just lost my frickin mind. A claim like hers normally lasts about a year, she has dragged this out for almost 5.

 

Dude don't go there. Your GF has it bad. It can just take one tragic event to happen in her life, and she will go off the deep end. She will cover her house in shrink wrap, and lock herself in her apartment.....remember Howard Hughes?

Edited September 22, 2017 by smackie9

[Jitsdude]

That's because I wasn't referring to bipolar (BP). Rather, I was referring to Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). They are very different. Both BPD and OCPD are personality disorders that cannot be treated with medication. In contrast, BP and OCD are "clinical disorders" (i.e., not PDs) and thus can be treated with medication.

 

Smart decision. The primary reason for learning to recognize these warning signs is to realize that she may have a serious disorder that you can neither tolerate nor fix -- i.e., loving her is not going to make it better because she can only fix herself with professional guidance. A secondary reason for learning the warning signs is to be able to protect yourself -- i.e., to avoid running right into the arms of another woman just like this one.

So I've gone through the list of symptoms for BPD and OCPD in some more detail. I take it you're Uptown on that other forum?

 

From the BPD list you posted in that forum, she fits 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 8 (not the verbal abuse but definitely the sudden temper tantrums), 15, 17, and 18 pretty strongly. She also partially fits 3, 9, 11, and 12. On the Mayo Clinic list, she fits at least 5 out of the 9.

 

For the OCPD list on the Mayo website, the ones that stand out to me the most are preoccupation with details/rules, rigid and stubborn, and inflexible about ethics and values.

 

We've been on a bit of a hiatus over the last week and a half and in that time we've had a couple conversations about the state of our relationship. I've also used that time to read about these disorders and get input here. I think that the input of impartial people to be pretty helpful actually, and a different perspective from what I get from family and friends.

 

I'm seeing her again on the weekend - I'm not quite sure how I'm going to approach it but reading about these disorders definitely gives me some perspective on things. I read your post with the list from hell and that situation sounds like an absolute nightmare. While my girlfriend isn't nearly that bad, there was a lot there that sounded familiar. Plus we tend to only see each other a couple times a week and I'm fully aware that I probably haven't seen the full extent of the condition.

 

Her family doesn't help. From what I know about one of her sisters, she might be even worse.

[Jitsdude]

So we ended up breaking up. It was really hard, especially once the tears started flowing. I knew that I wanted to end it if things didn't change but I also knew that I'd miss her like crazy, and I was right. The good times were so good that it's hard to let that go. But as long as she believes that she doesn't have a problem, this is how it has to be. I hope for her sake that at some point she realizes that she needs help.