Should bad sex be the end?

[lilyblue]

To add to this:

 

Have you ever seen the movie "The Age of Innocence?" Wynona Rider's character manipulates Daniel Day Lewis' character and others in their social circle through her syrupy sweetness and at the end of the movie, he finds out just how deep her treacherous niceness went and it shatters his mind. He couldn't pinpoint how she was being manipulative until he read the letter she left him after she dies.

 

 

 

This is what I mean by manipulating. He claimed it was inexperience, but then in front of the therapist, it became he didn't understand what you meant... but he tried it one time and stopped doing it, so he did know what you meant. He chose not to do it. But since he's nice in other areas of your relationship, he thinks that's enough to keep your interest. I mean if you want to live with him as if he's your brother...

 

The price for you being there is to strangle your libido.

 

I haven't seen it, but your point does make sense, and I can see it in the example you provided - the inexperience vs not understanding. And I'm late 30s, he's early 40s.

[amaysngrace]

Maybe he's asexual. I know someone who married a guy like that and she complains about their lack of sex ALL THE TIME even nearly 20 years later.

 

She takes it personally and I guess it's hard not to but she had fair warning just like you do. What you have now is just going to get worse the more comfortable and older he becomes.

[lilyblue]

Maybe he's asexual. I know someone who married a guy like that and she complains about their lack of sex ALL THE TIME even nearly 20 years later.

 

She takes it personally and I guess it's hard not to but she had fair warning just like you do. What you have now is just going to get worse the more comfortable and older he becomes.

 

I don't think he's asexual. I think he probably does have a lower sex drive than I do, considering he seems ok going long, long periods of time without it. He has tried to start something a few times in the last several (many) months, but it just feels too late for me. I have no reaction to it. I try. But "tolerating it" feels like cheating myself. I think his ignoring my needs for so long has just made it so hard.

[GemmaUK]

I only just read this - got here a bit late.

 

For me sex is one of the things I gauge when dating - literally seeing if there is give (take is usually all ok! Lol!) and listening, making effort, remembering etc.

 

It doesn't take me long to become aware that sexually there could be a big learning curve to get through.

If I see signs of tat learning curve just being one way then that's a red flag for me. Sexual compatibility is important to me - very important.

 

I've found it tougher since being single at 36 and dating men of a similar age to me that they have a shed load of insecurity or think they 'have it down' so refuse to listen to what I like to learn/try/initiate.

I do ask and listen to them and make effort - they say it's only women who like different things but that's not the case AT ALL - every guy is different too and likes different things.

I will know quite soon if this is a dating for not situ or it has the potential for a long term thing.

 

2 years is a heck of a long time to put up with this - plus counselling and he just made up answers for counselling!!

He is insecure over this - you've said so - trouble is he isn't prepared to be vulnerable, listen and give it a repeated good old try. This to me equals he has no balls. A partner is someone you should be able to be vulnerable with - the one you should be able to be vulnerable with and you can have a lot of fun being vulnerable!!!

 

OP, you need a healthy sex life - it's better to be without a sex life when the sex is this bad.

He isn't going to change.

Do you really want that for the rest of your life?

I wouldn't stick around, you've tried, he doesn't seem to want to even try.

 

I suspect there are other things going on with him also in subtle ways which you've maybe ignored or felt flattered by which are also not part of a healthy relationship - I could be wrong of course but usually there's more than one thing when insecurity is somewhere in the mix.

[rightondude]

OP ask yourself some difficult questions ...

 

Do you think he is really attracted to you? Like do you EVER get the sense he WANTS you? Does he initiate sex with you?

 

Have you talked about WHAT he finds attractive in a woman?

 

Finally, and this is harsh, I'm sorry. But it may help. Do you keep clean and trim down there? Be honest with yourself.

 

I am not saying all of this or ANY of this is your "fault." Just trying to find the reasoning for this guy being the way he is since you've already nixed the typical causes (abuse, drugs, gay, obesity, etc) ...

 

At this point, I would straight up ask him why the hell he's not doing what you request (which for most men, well me, is a huge turn on) and what needs to happen. If you don't get a good answer, get out. Or be sexually frustrated the rest of your life. The choice is yours!

[amaysngrace]

I don't think he's asexual. I think he probably does have a lower sex drive than I do, considering he seems ok going long, long periods of time without it.

 

Asexual means having diminished or total lack of sexual desire.

 

Do you want a roommate? Because stay with him and that's just where you're headed, I'm sorry to say.

[Els]

I am not saying all of this or ANY of this is your "fault." Just trying to find the reasoning for this guy being the way he is since you've already nixed the typical causes (abuse, drugs, gay, obesity, etc) ...

 

IMO there is one cause that is more typical and obvious than any of the ones you describe - laziness. It's hard to believe (and it hasn't been my own experience), but from everything I have heard from many other women, it's absolutely gobsmacking how many men are just too lazy to care about their woman's pleasure. It might sound crazy to some of us, but some men really do think that their orgasm is all that matters from sex, or that all that matters is PIV, and the woman's pleasure is just a pleasant side effect that shouldn't "derail" things too much.

 

I really do think that the OP's guy just has a good serving of laziness/complacency in the bedroom with a healthy helping of sexual incompatibility. If he was gay, he wouldn't be dating her. Obesity and drugs do not completely prevent a man from caring about a woman's pleasure. If he would like her to trim or wash, he could ask for it (it's been 2 years!). So on and so forth.

 

The only "cure" at this stage, after having tried to talk to him about it multiple times, is to leave.

[elaine567]

IMO there is one cause that is more typical and obvious than any of the ones you describe - laziness. It's hard to believe (and it hasn't been my own experience), but from everything I have heard from many other women, it's absolutely gobsmacking how many men are just too lazy to care about their woman's pleasure. It might sound crazy to some of us, but some men really do think that their orgasm is all that matters from sex, or that all that matters is PIV, and the woman's pleasure is just a pleasant side effect that shouldn't "derail" things too much.

.

 

Yes, sex is all geared to lead up to the orgasm and is portrayed as such everywhere.

Ejaculation is the main event. It has everything going for it, from the spectacular erection at the start to the proof something really happened, ie the semen showing up at the end.

 

Rubbing "something" on a woman for a while, that some are not even sure where it is or how it works, is not "spectacular".

NO huge erection shows up to indicate she is turned on, and whilst some women may make a fantastic show out of having an orgasm (usually fake), some other women can have an massive orgasm with barely a whimper, so there is no "proof" at the end. NO semen, no floppy penis to indicate she is now done.

It is hardly surprising that some men will not take it seriously and merely get on with the main event and if she happens to like it and have a "simultaneous" orgasm then so much the better...

[lilyblue]

I only just read this - got here a bit late.

 

For me sex is one of the things I gauge when dating - literally seeing if there is give (take is usually all ok! Lol!) and listening, making effort, remembering etc.

 

It doesn't take me long to become aware that sexually there could be a big learning curve to get through.

If I see signs of tat learning curve just being one way then that's a red flag for me. Sexual compatibility is important to me - very important.

 

I've found it tougher since being single at 36 and dating men of a similar age to me that they have a shed load of insecurity or think they 'have it down' so refuse to listen to what I like to learn/try/initiate.

I do ask and listen to them and make effort - they say it's only women who like different things but that's not the case AT ALL - every guy is different too and likes different things.

I will know quite soon if this is a dating for not situ or it has the potential for a long term thing.

 

2 years is a heck of a long time to put up with this - plus counselling and he just made up answers for counselling!!

He is insecure over this - you've said so - trouble is he isn't prepared to be vulnerable, listen and give it a repeated good old try. This to me equals he has no balls. A partner is someone you should be able to be vulnerable with - the one you should be able to be vulnerable with and you can have a lot of fun being vulnerable!!!

 

OP, you need a healthy sex life - it's better to be without a sex life when the sex is this bad.

He isn't going to change.

Do you really want that for the rest of your life?

I wouldn't stick around, you've tried, he doesn't seem to want to even try.

 

I suspect there are other things going on with him also in subtle ways which you've maybe ignored or felt flattered by which are also not part of a healthy relationship - I could be wrong of course but usually there's more than one thing when insecurity is somewhere in the mix.

 

Thank you thank you thank you. Your whole post was very helpful - the vulnerability part, everything. One thing that I've always been slightly offended by is that he told me once that I was just "difficult" and other women have all had orgasms just from regular old sex. Now, I'm not difficult, I know that, and they were likely not telling the truth, I know that. But for him to "accuse" me of that made me so mad. Even if I was difficult, shouldn't he want to try to figure it out? If I was with a man that was that way I would take so much satisfaction in being the one to figure him out. I think that's at least half the fun.

 

And I agree - men are definitely all different in what they want too.

[lilyblue]

IMO there is one cause that is more typical and obvious than any of the ones you describe - laziness. It's hard to believe (and it hasn't been my own experience), but from everything I have heard from many other women, it's absolutely gobsmacking how many men are just too lazy to care about their woman's pleasure. It might sound crazy to some of us, but some men really do think that their orgasm is all that matters from sex, or that all that matters is PIV, and the woman's pleasure is just a pleasant side effect that shouldn't "derail" things too much.

 

I really do think that the OP's guy just has a good serving of laziness/complacency in the bedroom with a healthy helping of sexual incompatibility. If he was gay, he wouldn't be dating her. Obesity and drugs do not completely prevent a man from caring about a woman's pleasure. If he would like her to trim or wash, he could ask for it (it's been 2 years!). So on and so forth.

 

The only "cure" at this stage, after having tried to talk to him about it multiple times, is to leave.

 

 

It could very well be the laziness/incompatibility combo, which, when put that way, seems like quite a barrier to overcome.

 

And no, none of those other physical factors are an issue at all.

[Els]

It could very well be the laziness/incompatibility combo, which, when put that way, seems like quite a barrier to overcome.

 

And no, none of those other physical factors are an issue at all.

 

Honestly... at 2 years and no other commitments tying the two of you together (children etc), I really don't think there's any purpose in even trying to "overcome" this. You've tried everything, even therapy (which IMO should not even be necessary for a couple that's still in the honeymoon phase of <2 years). Don't let this drag on for another 10 years and end up being that person who has to decide whether to break up their family or put up with terrible sex for the rest of their life.

[Els]

Yes, sex is all geared to lead up to the orgasm and is portrayed as such everywhere.

Ejaculation is the main event. It has everything going for it, from the spectacular erection at the start to the proof something really happened, ie the semen showing up at the end.

 

Rubbing "something" on a woman for a while, that some are not even sure where it is or how it works, is not "spectacular".

NO huge erection shows up to indicate she is turned on, and whilst some women may make a fantastic show out of having an orgasm (usually fake), some other women can have an massive orgasm with barely a whimper, so there is no "proof" at the end. NO semen, no floppy penis to indicate she is now done.

It is hardly surprising that some men will not take it seriously and merely get on with the main event and if she happens to like it and have a "simultaneous" orgasm then so much the better...

 

There is increasingly more cultural/social focus on the woman's orgasm, especially with several female-centric sexual education websites. But yes, this is largely true. IMO the American baseball analogy so commonly used in speech doesn't really help - PIV is considered the "home run", everything else is inferior to that and something that you just run past if you can (did I guess the baseball rules correctly? ).

 

When you make out the main event (or, in some people's opinion, the very definition) of "sex" to be an activity that less than 50% of women can orgasm from, there's going to be a problem for a lot of couples. I get that some women even prefer PIV to oral etc, which is their prerogative, but it should never be a given or an expectation for all couples.

[GemmaUK]

Thank you thank you thank you. Your whole post was very helpful - the vulnerability part, everything. One thing that I've always been slightly offended by is that he told me once that I was just "difficult" and other women have all had orgasms just from regular old sex. Now, I'm not difficult, I know that, and they were likely not telling the truth, I know that. But for him to "accuse" me of that made me so mad. Even if I was difficult, shouldn't he want to try to figure it out? If I was with a man that was that way I would take so much satisfaction in being the one to figure him out. I think that's at least half the fun.

 

And I agree - men are definitely all different in what they want too.

 

You're welcome!

Funny he says you're 'difficult', I dated a guy pretty much the same in the bedroom department - he told me that what I liked was 'too difficult' for him to do.

Mind you he later also told me that sex was not something for women to enjoy so he saw no need at all for me to get any enjoyment from it - he certainly achieved that

 

Mind you, I met him at a low point and he soon turned very possessive, controlling and emotionally abusive.

 

However, I do agree with others here that some guys are just lazy.

[lilyblue]

Honestly... at 2 years and no other commitments tying the two of you together (children etc), I really don't think there's any purpose in even trying to "overcome" this. You've tried everything, even therapy (which IMO should not even be necessary for a couple that's still in the honeymoon phase of <2 years). Don't let this drag on for another 10 years and end up being that person who has to decide whether to break up their family or put up with terrible sex for the rest of their life.

 

Good point. It's going to be very hard now, but I also know it's only going to get harder. He's just such a nice guy and good in so many ways...

[lilyblue]

You're welcome!

Funny he says you're 'difficult', I dated a guy pretty much the same in the bedroom department - he told me that what I liked was 'too difficult' for him to do.

Mind you he later also told me that sex was not something for women to enjoy so he saw no need at all for me to get any enjoyment from it - he certainly achieved that

 

Mind you, I met him at a low point and he soon turned very possessive, controlling and emotionally abusive.

 

However, I do agree with others here that some guys are just lazy.

 

How can someone have that opinion and expect anyone to have sex with them?! Crazy.

[5x5]

Should bad sex be the end?

 

It should always be the end if you don't want to settle for bad sex.

[rightondude]

some guys are so stupid. Don't they realize if they get a woman satisfied and happy they are going to get 10000x better sex than they normally would? I enjoy a great reaction much more than just popping off. Guess I'm just a "giver."

[mortensorchid]

That is rough. I've been very lucky, I have had very little bad sex in my lifetime. If anything, it's always been good if not great with those I have been with. Here are some things to think about if and when this happens:

 

1) Everyone's good at it - Therapists say that everyone is good at it. Meaning that everyone is at least interested in it unless they have some kind of mental or physical problem that allows them to not be.

 

2) Everyone's different - Everyone is different, to be sure. Those in the past you have been with may have been better at it, the person you are with now may not be as good as they were. Are you both experienced? You have to be able to communicate things. I knew a guy who was with a gal for a few YEARS and he was having bad sex with her the whole time. She was a fetishistic person and they were in a dom/sub relationship (he was the dom, she was the sub). He said it was a bad time for him, but he went along in order to make her happy. Needless to say, this was an issue and they are not together anymore.

 

3) Drive - You both have a certain drive. Is it coinciding at the same time?

 

4) Your relationship outside of this - Are you getting along? Are you happy with them? If not, that will affect it.

 

5) The wrong person - You may be with the wrong person in general.

[Steve51]

Just look around the internet to find millions of men and women complaining about bad sex. Yet they knew this when they married hoping that things will magically change just because you put a wedding ring on their spouse.

 

Sex produces the hormone Oxytocin whose sole job is to emotionally bond the couple together. This same hormone is what will bond you to your children. Bad sex leads to infrequent sex and lack of emotional bonding. It may drive you to cheat because a wife needs to feel desirable and sexy. That is what many married women cheat for.

 

There is no excuse for bad sex other than laziness. I grew up pre internet and cable TV and yet I learned about sex anyway I could. I got good at it and word of mouth brought a lot of girls to my bed. It was back then that I learned that a lot of guys are not good at sex. Some women said that I was the only one that gave them an orgasm by intercourse. Others enjoyed how much I was into performing oral sex on them, even analingus. Sex is a teachable skill for those who want to learn. Too many men think sex should be just about their orgasm. Once they have one, they lose interest.

 

All too often people get married because they have been together so long that they think getting married is the next step. What you see is what you get. If you want to live the rest of your life with bad sex that will get worse over time, then stay with him. Dating is the time we can find out who is compatible with us and can also leave those who are not without it costing us a dime. Your story reminds me about my ex fiancé. She wanted sex a lot but never really had a good orgasm. She ended up marrying a woman. Mystery solved and my life was spared. As a result I met my wife of 45 years. Do not settle. I know my wife was the one as soon as I met her. We got engaged 3 weeks after we met.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Steve51

[Els]

Good point. It's going to be very hard now, but I also know it's only going to get harder. He's just such a nice guy and good in so many ways...

 

There are good guys who ALSO care about their woman's pleasure, though! Trust me.

[BluesPower]

Bottom line... At 40 if he cannot please a woman the never will be able too.

 

Time to end the relationship, sorry.

 

At 37, as a woman, you are in your sexual peak. Please don't keep yourself in a relationship with bad sex. At some point most likely it will drive you crazy or you might cheat.

 

In a romantic relationship, if you are not have great sex you are just wasting your time. It is just not worth in IMHO.

 

It is time to move on, as scary as it is to think about that, it is what you have to do...

[lilyblue]

I have to thank everyone again. This was actually way more helpful than I had hoped for. I don't feel like I'm as shallow anymore and am reassured by the fact that I think everyone actually had the same opinion. I felt like maybe I wasn't appreciating what I had enough before, but this has given me some hope that there could potentially be a better fit elsewhere, and I don't have to be satisfied just because he's a great guy.

[HarmonyDriven]

A healthy, happy relationship includes a happy healthy sex life.

 

No happy sex life = no happy healthy relationship.

 

Clearly, not the right guy for you (OP) even if he is kind, caring, etc....

 

Sad to say, time to move on. Good luck

[Els]

I have to thank everyone again. This was actually way more helpful than I had hoped for. I don't feel like I'm as shallow anymore and am reassured by the fact that I think everyone actually had the same opinion. I felt like maybe I wasn't appreciating what I had enough before, but this has given me some hope that there could potentially be a better fit elsewhere, and I don't have to be satisfied just because he's a great guy.

 

I found early on in life that I absolutely, unequivocally need both. I was with a guy whom I was a decent fit with outside the bedroom but whom I was completely sexually incompatible with - that didn't last terribly long. I was also with a guy whom I was sexually compatible with but who wasn't a good partner - that went to **** even faster.

 

Unless you and your partner are both okay with an open relationship, it's REALLY important to have both sexual and non-sexual compatibility in a LTR IMO. You are potentially signing up to have sex with that one person (and only that one person) for the rest of your life, or at least for the far future - surely you would at least want someone whom you can have enjoyable sex with. For me it doesn't have to be perfect (because nobody is perfect and everyone goes through difficult times/dry spells), but the sexual compatibility has to be there and they have to be willing to communicate, learn, and put in the effort.

 

And I did find such a person. I'm hoping you will too, OP.