SevenCity Posted August 19, 2017 Posted August 19, 2017 I gotta say....When I read this stuff, I cringe...Not that splitting a bill is anything to be ashamed of or anything, but Id never do it...If I couldn't pick up a measly dinner tab, then I wouldn't even date....but that's me... I mean....do people say stuff at the time of end of dinner, like..."well...you had the steak and I had the salad, so your share is 18 and mine is 13"...?? good grief... One of my customers was telling me that her daughter and her bf split the tab every time...They are both in their late 20's, have been together for 4 years, and there have been long term plans....I mean, what????!! Still splitting the bill? Are they gonna split everything else, too?? It just seems like the polite and gentlemanly thing to do when you take a woman out....Even if nothing came of it, who cares?? I don't agree with the assessment that some guys on here make that women just troll for suckers to buy them meals...Heck, most women eat like canaries on dates anyway...Makes no sense...I don't see women doing that...Maybe it's happened, but its probably way over exaggerated. .02. TFY "A" meal isn't the issue, it's EVERY SINGLE ONE. Moreover, it's the expectation. I have no issue paying at first, but if she never opens her wallet it gets old real quick. There are women who will date to get a free meal. That doesn't appear to be the case here, but it happens. 2
Miss Spider Posted August 19, 2017 Posted August 19, 2017 "A" meal isn't the issue, it's EVERY SINGLE ONE. Moreover, it's the expectation. I have no issue paying at first, but if she never opens her wallet it gets old real quick. There are women who will date to get a free meal. That doesn't appear to be the case here, but it happens. Seems like the guys who complain about it most are not in OP situation, where they are in a relationship and she never pays for anything, but guys who multidate a lot on the internet, so have a lot of bunk first dates which can get pricey. I can see women on the internet going out with guys for free meals xD 3
Els Posted August 19, 2017 Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) I'm quite familiar with East Asian culture myself. First, it's not uncommon for a young couple (e.g. college kids) to split the bill; second, while it's quite uncommon for a couple both working to split the bill, it's not unlikely they just take turns paying. For the first point - really? I'm talking about actual dates, at a place where the bill is brought to the table, not grabbing food at the food court or a coffee shop (where you would order individually and often even from different stalls). I would be very interested in which East Asian country you are talking about, if it's common to split bills on dinner dates there. I would also be curious how they manage it without a lot of awkwardness! In the place I grew up in, if the two people look even the tiniest bit like a romantic couple, the waiters don't ask, they just give the entire bill directly to the man! There were a few occasions where they made a mistake and I was out with a platonic friend, in which case we had a good laugh and I paid them back after. For the second point, absolutely. Lots of couples take turns paying. Usually the woman pays for less conspicious/date-y and less expensive stuff, like takeaway or ingredients for cooking - but I've seen women pay for dates occasionally. However, the OP wanted to literally split the bill during dates, which is very different. This thread will most likely be merged with the master consolidated discussion thread. This topic has come up already. Among my married East Asian female friends, more of them are contributing more financially to their household expenses, due to the fact that they are earning more compared to their husbands.Again, this is not about LTR couples and household finances, it's about the literal act of splitting a bill during a date. The two are very different. Yes, with household expenses things are modernizing a lot, however even among couples where the woman earns more (and presumably contributes more to joint finances), the man usually still carries out the act of paying for a date for both of them. Even if they have a joint account and he's using both people's money. Perhaps slightly off-topic, but it's also far less common among Asian couples (who were born in Asia and live in Asia) for women to marry a man who earns less than them - I know a few, but I'd estimate the percentage at around 10% or less. And I would hedge a guess that the man did still pay for dinners when they were dating, despite earning less. Edited August 19, 2017 by Elswyth
smackie9 Posted August 19, 2017 Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) A long time ago a woman posted a thread about how her first date took her to a nice steakhouse. He proceeded to order the most expensive dinner and bottle of wine. At first she was like wow this guy is really going all out to impress her. As the night went on, he polished off two bottles of wine, got belligerent with the staff while she went to freshen up. When she got back she found out he got kicked out and disappeared. She got stuck with the bill. Her question was, did we think he did this on purpose....hell ya! What a sly bastard eh? Edited August 19, 2017 by smackie9 1
Bastile Posted August 19, 2017 Posted August 19, 2017 Seems like the guys who complain about it most are not in OP situation, Smart! where they are in a relationship and she never pays for anything, Clever! but guys who multidate a lot on the internet, Genius! so have a lot of bunk first dates which can get pricey. The more you date, the better a closer you become - not worse. I can see women on the internet going out with guys for free meals xD
fred123 Posted August 19, 2017 Posted August 19, 2017 you getting played. she not into you. she doesn't even do anything for you like cook you meals or buy you sweet cute things. she's a taker. wait till she meets a guy she's into you will see what she does! 1
Author lover01 Posted August 20, 2017 Author Posted August 20, 2017 you getting played. she not into you. she doesn't even do anything for you like cook you meals or buy you sweet cute things. she's a taker. wait till she meets a guy she's into you will see what she does! Sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about. I wouldn't be with this girl if she wasn't as extremely nice to me as she always is.
Author lover01 Posted August 20, 2017 Author Posted August 20, 2017 I gotta say....When I read this stuff, I cringe...Not that splitting a bill is anything to be ashamed of or anything, but Id never do it...If I couldn't pick up a measly dinner tab, then I wouldn't even date....but that's me... I mean....do people say stuff at the time of end of dinner, like..."well...you had the steak and I had the salad, so your share is 18 and mine is 13"...?? good grief... One of my customers was telling me that her daughter and her bf split the tab every time...They are both in their late 20's, have been together for 4 years, and there have been long term plans....I mean, what????!! Still splitting the bill? Are they gonna split everything else, too?? It just seems like the polite and gentlemanly thing to do when you take a woman out....Even if nothing came of it, who cares?? I don't agree with the assessment that some guys on here make that women just troll for suckers to buy them meals...Heck, most women eat like canaries on dates anyway...Makes no sense...I don't see women doing that...Maybe it's happened, but its probably way over exaggerated. .02. TFY You expect men to keep paying on *every* date? It's been half a year at least now in which I've payed for everything. Do you realize that that's quite a substantial percentage of my income at this point? Do you honestly think that's fair? If I were 10 years older and were making a lot more money than her then yes. But this just doesn't feel right now, especially since she always suggests expensive places, and it's just not true that she eats significantly less. I have suggested taking turns, I didn't mean splitting literally.
Author lover01 Posted August 20, 2017 Author Posted August 20, 2017 Oh, if she grew up in a Western country then it's likely that she might be more amenable to it. A different suggestion - it's possible that it's the ACT of splitting the bill that turns her off, not the money per se. What about if you guys took turns to pay instead? I know that if I ever insisted on going dutch, my SO (also born and raised in Asia) would be really turned off - he doesn't agree with a couple literally splitting bills down the middle. However, he is okay with me buying things for him, or paying for both of us if I grab takeaway for us or such. By taking turns, you could avoid the unpleasant act, but still have a relatively 50/50 financial split. I've suggested this, I didn't mean splitting literally. That last time we went out and discussed it (when we were home again after the restaurant), the waitress actually asked if we wanted to split. She directly replied with yes, so I also wasn't going to decline that. We both have contactless payment cards, so it goes quite easily, but yes I would prefer to take turns as well and I've said that to her.
kazen Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 What i have learned over the years is, if you ask a girl to pay her share on the first date, you'll not getting a second date. 1
Author lover01 Posted August 20, 2017 Author Posted August 20, 2017 I gotta say....When I read this stuff, I cringe...Not that splitting a bill is anything to be ashamed of or anything, but Id never do it...If I couldn't pick up a measly dinner tab, then I wouldn't even date....but that's me... I mean....do people say stuff at the time of end of dinner, like..."well...you had the steak and I had the salad, so your share is 18 and mine is 13"...?? good grief... One of my customers was telling me that her daughter and her bf split the tab every time...They are both in their late 20's, have been together for 4 years, and there have been long term plans....I mean, what????!! Still splitting the bill? Are they gonna split everything else, too?? It just seems like the polite and gentlemanly thing to do when you take a woman out....Even if nothing came of it, who cares?? I don't agree with the assessment that some guys on here make that women just troll for suckers to buy them meals...Heck, most women eat like canaries on dates anyway...Makes no sense...I don't see women doing that...Maybe it's happened, but its probably way over exaggerated. .02. TFY Also, you're being extremely rude by questioning whether I could "pick up a measly dinner tab", and clearly you didn't read my posts. I could *easily* pay in full every time if I wanted to, but at the same time I'm a young guy and want to save up some cash. I've already paid for her for the past 6+ months or so, and a "measly dinner tab" means a 100$+ every time, as she picks very expensive places. So I'd think twice in the future before you start making comments with such disdain.
Author lover01 Posted August 20, 2017 Author Posted August 20, 2017 I don't think you are wrong to expect her to split the cost of your dates. The fact that she doesn't agree and expects you to pay for everything, would be a big red flag for me. That's a pretty entitled attitude to have. I mean, she did pay for half last time we went out, and I genuinely do think she understands it partly and has accepted it (because she said so). This topic is more about the fact that I'm not very happy with her reasons for *why she has accepted it*. She said it's fine because "we're the same age", which to me means she doesn't really understand the fact that just like herself I need to save some money for later, and there is just no logical reason for one person to keep paying indefinitely just because he is the man.
kazen Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 there is just no logical reason for one person to keep paying indefinitely just because he is the man. It would be nice too if women would pick me up on our dates. It's not like women don't know how to drive. Imagine all the gas money we would save if women would do this.
Author lover01 Posted August 20, 2017 Author Posted August 20, 2017 It would be nice too if women would pick me up on our dates. It's not like women don't know how to drive. Imagine all the gas money we would save if women would do this. I'm afraid that's not gonna happen anytime soon . I wasn't trying to say that it should be exactly 50/50, but I definitely do think that at some point in a relationship women should start to chip in (if their circumstances allow it).
normal person Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 I gotta say....When I read this stuff, I cringe...Not that splitting a bill is anything to be ashamed of or anything, but Id never do it...If I couldn't pick up a measly dinner tab, then I wouldn't even date....but that's me... I have to agree with the above. Pick your battles, OP. This is one you'll never win. Men got the short end of the stick on this one. While you might be correct that it's unfair or unequal, is that really going to change anything? It's not like if you show her a list of all your expenses she's suddenly going to come around and realize how much she should have been contributing. She's just going to think you're cheap, you complain too much, you're not a good provider, etc. There's no positive outcome, even if your complaints are totally justifiable. Just suck it up. My (very unpopular) stance is that if you can't afford to pay for everything without complaint, don't date. Just go in expecting to pay for everything and if she ever wants to help out, let it be a pleasant surprise. The cost of those things won't be as bad as the bruise your image is going to take when you start complaining to her about it. If it's that bothersome, you know she's not the one, and you see it as a bad investment, just break up with her. Or threaten to, and see if she changes her tune at all. This expectation is perpetuated by many guys who feel it is ALWAYS their responsibility to pick up the tab. I always pick up the tab, not necessarily because I think it's my responsibility, but because I think the current climate makes it so that arguing about it, or even mentioning it, is much worse than additional cost. Let's say you really like a girl. You're at dinner and your food/drink comes to $80, as does hers. Are you really going to blow your chances of seeing her again by insisting she split it? Then you're out $80 and you don't even get what you want out of it. You're out of pocket and you didn't convert. If you just come up with the $160 you've got much better odds. Is it fair? No. But it's the cost of doing business, and it's a battle you aren't going to win anytime soon. Women benefit from men paying for them, men benefit from the double standard of not being looked down upon if they date a lot of women. Let's call it even, ok? 1
SevenCity Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 I have to agree with the above. Pick your battles, OP. This is one you'll never win. Men got the short end of the stick on this one. While you might be correct that it's unfair or unequal, is that really going to change anything? It's not like if you show her a list of all your expenses she's suddenly going to come around and realize how much she should have been contributing. She's just going to think you're cheap, you complain too much, you're not a good provider, etc. There's no positive outcome, even if your complaints are totally justifiable. Just suck it up. My (very unpopular) stance is that if you can't afford to pay for everything without complaint, don't date. Just go in expecting to pay for everything and if she ever wants to help out, let it be a pleasant surprise. The cost of those things won't be as bad as the bruise your image is going to take when you start complaining to her about it. If it's that bothersome, you know she's not the one, and you see it as a bad investment, just break up with her. Or threaten to, and see if she changes her tune at all. I always pick up the tab, not necessarily because I think it's my responsibility, but because I think the current climate makes it so that arguing about it, or even mentioning it, is much worse than additional cost. Let's say you really like a girl. You're at dinner and your food/drink comes to $80, as does hers. Are you really going to blow your chances of seeing her again by insisting she split it? Then you're out $80 and you don't even get what you want out of it. You're out of pocket and you didn't convert. If you just come up with the $160 you've got much better odds. Is it fair? No. But it's the cost of doing business, and it's a battle you aren't going to win anytime soon. Women benefit from men paying for them, men benefit from the double standard of not being looked down upon if they date a lot of women. Let's call it even, ok? At first, like I said, I have no issue with paying as it's the cost of business. That said, once in an established relationship, the refusal to pay is a sign of selfishness. I won't put up with that for long (or at all if the sex is bad) and they instantly get eliminated from the LTR list and get relegated to a cum dumpster. Although rare, there are women out there who not only feel obligated to contribute but actually enjoy doing it because it makes them feel good. They are rare, but I promise you I will not get married again until I find one. At the OP's rate, we are talking about $400 a month. I'm older and make more money probably and that is way too much for me. Could I pay it? Sure. Would I? Nope. It's not worth the investment to me. 1
thefooloftheyear Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 Also, you're being extremely rude by questioning whether I could "pick up a measly dinner tab", and clearly you didn't read my posts. I could *easily* pay in full every time if I wanted to, but at the same time I'm a young guy and want to save up some cash. I've already paid for her for the past 6+ months or so, and a "measly dinner tab" means a 100$+ every time, as she picks very expensive places. So I'd think twice in the future before you start making comments with such disdain. Quit whining....I didn't quote you, therefore it isn't directed at YOU, just my own personal experiences/preferences...See how that works...? I don't give a flying crap what you do...Make her pay for everything or take her to Burger King...Its your choice, pal.. In my personal experience, I've never felt any woman was trying to get over on me...Every last one has been very generous....Almost too generous...If you are feeling otherwise, then there is probably a negative dynamic going on, that goes way beyond the dinner tabs you are b!tching about.....In that case that deal wouldn't last 6 days with me, let alone 6 months.. Go back and read Elswyth's posts...She has the correct understanding with her SO...That's what you should shoot for.. TFY 1
Shining One Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 OP, if this is important to you, I'm afraid you're with the wrong woman. I've found that women who want to contribute do so without there being a discussion about it. They simply reciprocate. 5
SevenCity Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 OP, if this is important to you, I'm afraid you're with the wrong woman. I've found that women who want to contribute do so without there being a discussion about it. They simply reciprocate. My experience as well.
Author lover01 Posted August 20, 2017 Author Posted August 20, 2017 (edited) OP, if this is important to you, I'm afraid you're with the wrong woman. I've found that women who want to contribute do so without there being a discussion about it. They simply reciprocate. I think you're jumping to conclusions. I personally think what plays a big role here is that she was used to having older boyfriends who always paid. And even if I have to pay for her indefinitely it would still be worth it to me. She's very good at taking criticism, and in fact already paid for half last time so I'm sure we'll work things out. But it's just good that I started talking to her about this I think, because apart from a few exceptions the consensus seems to be that I'm not being unreasonable and I shouldn't just accept this. Anyway, I got what I needed. Topic can be closed. Edited August 20, 2017 by lover01
Els Posted August 21, 2017 Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) I've already paid for her for the past 6+ months or so, and a "measly dinner tab" means a 100$+ every time, as she picks very expensive places. This does sorta ring alarm bells in my head. She picks the places, you pay - and she consistently picks $100+ places ALL the time? Yeah, that's not a cultural thing. Because in the same cultures where men normally pay, it's also normally expected that the woman wouldn't expect to be taken to very expensive places all the time, or rack the bill up unreasonably. IMO, unless both of you are extremely rich, that constant expenditure on dinner is rather excessive. My guy makes a decent amount of money, but for us $100+ places are a once-a-month or so thing. It just makes zero sense to us to pay that much for a meal every time. It's possible that the best solution for your pocket is not the bill-splitting per se, but rather for you to tell her that you can't take her to $100+ places every single time. It's just not sustainable and frankly, doesn't it get somewhat boring? There are lots of places that serve wonderful authentic meals and that you can have a good time at, for $50 or less. If you don't do it all the time, then the $100+ places could be a special treat and you would probably even enjoy it more. If she throws a fuss about that, you might want to reexamine your R. Edited August 21, 2017 by Elswyth 2
SwordofFlame Posted August 21, 2017 Posted August 21, 2017 She said she understood me though, and that it makes sense because "we're the same age". That gave me the feeling we're not actually on the same page, because it means she still thinks that otherwise I should be the one to always pay. She grew up in a western country and I genuinely do think she understands part of it, but yes you are right. She doesn't. Then again she works crazy hours, and is quite often away for business so I don't blame her for that. This is just bizarre. Can someone explain to me how a westernized business woman develops these combination of beliefs?
smackie9 Posted August 21, 2017 Posted August 21, 2017 It would be nice too if women would pick me up on our dates. It's not like women don't know how to drive. Imagine all the gas money we would save if women would do this. I picked up my husband for our first date He let me pick, I said sushi. Brave man for never having sushi before. He loved it!
Els Posted August 21, 2017 Posted August 21, 2017 This is just bizarre. Can someone explain to me how a westernized business woman develops these combination of beliefs? If she was brought up by high-achieving and traditional parents, this is a possible combination. Asia is "modernizing" in a sense, and the successful parents always want their children to be "successful", which in their minds usually implies a job that earns lots of money, regardless of gender. But some stereotypical traditional roles are kept, like men paying or women cooking. Occasionally parents do bring their kids up with completely equal gender roles (e.g. the boys do as much housework as the girls do), but it's not always the case and families can fall anywhere on the spectrum. The constant $100+ meals just puzzle me though. Asian families are typically quite frugal, even the richer ones.
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