d0nnivain Posted August 2, 2017 Posted August 2, 2017 Then keep the lines of communication open because the clock is ticking. You need to be engaged for at least 1 year for a lot of reasons but some are practical -- certain wedding gowns actually take 9+ months to sew if you want one of the elaborate ones; you can't often get reservations at certain venues for your reception; certain religions require the wait; you need to give out of town relatives & friends time to get to you, etc. Even if you lived together before marriage, that "piece of paper" changes things & there is still an adjustment. You are better served spending at least 1 year being husband & wife before you immediately transition to mom & dad.
OatsAndHall Posted August 2, 2017 Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) I would STRONGLY recommend living together before you think about taking that next step. And, I would suggest living together for awhile before getting married. All relationships are different but, for me, there's a big difference between living alone while dating and moving in with someone. But, I am also kind of a recluse and a creature of habit that enjoys his time and space alone so living with a girlfriend can be difficult for me. I always equate it to "Rain Man"; fish sticks are served on Wednesday. I don't like it when fish sticks are served on Tuesday. Edited August 2, 2017 by OatsAndHall 2
GunslingerRoland Posted August 2, 2017 Posted August 2, 2017 I'm a personal fan of engagement->living together-> marriage. Do you own or rent your house? Be careful about the legal complications if you own. Also while sharing the costs 50/50 sounds easy it can get quite complicated constantly figuring out who owes what when most of your expenses become shared. I know others feel differently. But I felt a much bigger relationship change going from not living together to living together then when we got married. Anyway, you'll probably be fine, it sounds like you have a solid foundation for your relationship. 1
Els Posted August 3, 2017 Posted August 3, 2017 It's subconscious, just like how advertising affects you subconsciously or if pharmaceutical companies talk to you and give you things. Sure some people think they are not going to be influenced at all and I thought that way once too. But the person contributing "more" will usually end up with some form of control/resentment because they are contributing more. And they would expect you to fulfill it in other ways, whether it's via chores, decisions, etc The problem is that in some cases, oftentimes one party (usually the woman) already IS "expected" to contribute more to chores regardless of whether the bills are split 50/50 or not. And that leads to a lot of resentment as well, especially over the long term. In such cases (where the chores are very unevenly split), it actually makes things more even/equal/fair and reduces resentment issues if the party doing less chores pays more of the bills. I do think that it is generally best if the two balance out, regardless of whether the balance is 50/50 or 70/30 and 30/70, etc. If the OP and her bf are able to genuinely split both the bills AND the chores 50/50, great! Otherwise, an uneven bill split is not necessarily a bad thing.
d0nnivain Posted August 3, 2017 Posted August 3, 2017 I know others feel differently. But I felt a much bigger relationship change going from not living together to living together then when we got married. I'm one of the ones who felt a much bigger change after marriage. When DH moved in I was pretty calm somewhat casual about it. Maybe somewhere in the back of my mind I always knew that if I broke up with the men I lived with, I could move out. It wasn't that complicated logistically. Just pack & go. Once DH & I got home from our HM, & back into the house where we had been living together for 3 months, and we started co mingling the money it was a huge psychological change (which in fairness started for me & scared me on the HM). I was stunned & somewhat overwhelmed. I was like OMG if I want out of this, I have to get a lawyer, we have to get a Divorce, it will take 18+ months. . . .wow. Living together is a commitment but marriage is still a bigger one.
RecentChange Posted August 3, 2017 Posted August 3, 2017 I was stunned & somewhat overwhelmed. I was like OMG if I want out of this, I have to get a lawyer, we have to get a Divorce, it will take 18+ months. . . .wow. Living together is a commitment but marriage is still a bigger one. It depends on the individuals. We lived together for 14 years before ever getting "legal" (ie running off to Vegas and getting married). Our funds were co-mingled from the start. Getting married wasn't a mental change, I find it fun to call him my husband now. I never thought about "getting out of this". I never imagined a day we wouldn't be living together. Perhaps it was blind optimism, but for us, living together has never ever been a struggle. Before or after we signed the paperwork.
fieldoflavender Posted August 3, 2017 Posted August 3, 2017 I think both are really scary. I can only speak for myself - before my recent break-up, I was naive and thought - oh why think about bad things, why would I jinx it blah blah and this is even when I had problems. Yes denial I know. Then I landed myself into a HUGE mess. At least not a huge financial mess because THANK GOODNESS I did not mingle finances yet. We were about to - thank goodness I did not yet. And the thought of divorce for 18 months just gives me chills for minutes. And sometimes you never see people's true faces until a break up and it's terrifying. I know for sure with that ex and family, had I gone through divorce, I would be in +++++ worse shape than now. THAT being said, maybe with some people - you just know. But it doesn't hurt to always have a back up plan to protect yourself. And even if you're certain, just always think for those 5 minutes - What if, and think about options. That's all. At least give yourself due diligence and perhaps you will live happily ever after (and I hope that for everyone) but if anyone was like me, I hope they had a back up plan. If I had given myself even those 5 minutes, maybe I wouldn't be in such a bad shape now. But could have been worse.
GunslingerRoland Posted August 3, 2017 Posted August 3, 2017 I'm one of the ones who felt a much bigger change after marriage. When DH moved in I was pretty calm somewhat casual about it. Maybe somewhere in the back of my mind I always knew that if I broke up with the men I lived with, I could move out. It wasn't that complicated logistically. Just pack & go. Once DH & I got home from our HM, & back into the house where we had been living together for 3 months, and we started co mingling the money it was a huge psychological change (which in fairness started for me & scared me on the HM). I was stunned & somewhat overwhelmed. I was like OMG if I want out of this, I have to get a lawyer, we have to get a Divorce, it will take 18+ months. . . .wow. Living together is a commitment but marriage is still a bigger one. I guess the other factor was that my wife and I bought together and so right from the start it would have been work to dissolve the relationship.
knabe Posted August 3, 2017 Posted August 3, 2017 On the 50/50 thing....I think it's more important to be on the same page about what that means than to do the math. If you get hung up on the math you are already losing. My fiance makes more than I do, and I also have a long commute (so a lot more gas). Monetarily, he "pays" more than 50%, but I contribute significantly. When it comes to the household, cooking, cleaning, etc. I do more, but he helps as well. We don't get out the calculator and sweat. IMO, people who do THAT are probably not good partners anyway because whether practically or emotionally, a relationship is almost NEVER exactly 50-50 all the time. 4
central Posted August 3, 2017 Posted August 3, 2017 Having done it three times, I would never do it again. You're more likely to find reasons not to marry than to marry. You can do that without living together. And studies show that marriages tend to be less successful when the couple lives together first. Though it's common now, most don't lead to successful marriages. Those studies have been debunked by later studies. There is no appreciable difference in marriage success whether or not you cohabitate. If anything, cohabitation reveals issues that prevent people from mistakenly marrying. Finding reasons not to marry is a good thing. I suggest searching on "nonmarital cohabitation agreement." This is a good document to negotiate and sign (have it witnessed). It can prevent many problems from arising, and can make any disagreements later easier to resolve. I had one, and it was useful when my gf needed to apply for SSDI - she'd have been denied or gotten less assistance because they'd have factored my income into the equation without that document. (BTW, we lived together for 7 years, then got married, and have been very happy for 10 years. We were certain of our relationship when we married.) 1
lana-banana Posted August 3, 2017 Posted August 3, 2017 Agreed with the above that cohabiting doesn't prevent happy people from getting married. The "why buy the cow" argument is absurd and outdated, because how many adult couples aren't having sex? Most people consider living together a significant burden; sure, it has its perks, but it also has many, many, many drawbacks. It won't deter anyone who actually intends to marry you. There is so much negativity in this thread. At the end of the day, cohabiting is just a choice that highlights the existing strength and weaknesses of your relationship. If things end disastrously, it's not because you moved in together. I know exactly one couple that cobabits long-term with no plans to marry, and that's because the guy got burned in his first divorce and he has been perfectly clear that he'll never marry again. Everyone else who cohabited got married or broke up---you know, just like any other couple. I, like donn0vain, had some freakouts after I realized we were actually married and I couldn't just walk away if I felt too frustrated. But some aspects of joining together made it easier. For example, instead of figuring out our savings each month, his job now direct-deposits into our joint savings account with each paycheck. We have a shared credit card that we use for most purchases. I do all the budgeting, weekday cooking, cleaning, and laundry folding; he does weekend cooking, laundry washing and sorting, and home maintenance. You will learn more about the distribution of labor as you go along. You will try things and they won't work. Your ability to talk it all out will determine how well you function on all kinds of long-term issues. You may find yourself unconsciously slipping into the roles your parents did! 2
The411 Posted August 3, 2017 Posted August 3, 2017 I would not recommend that he moves into your place. You guys should live together but either at his place or a new place. Moving into a girl's place is one of the worst things a guy can do.
No_Go Posted August 4, 2017 Posted August 4, 2017 Ohh I know many couples that cohabit long term with no intention to marry. My sister is in a relationship like this: they moved in together and have a child but will likely never marry (I don't know why, both of them have no impeding history). A friend of mine: moved in within an year, got engaged, and now are engaged for 4 years already with no wedding date. But they seem to get along just fine. I think living together in general shouldn't be thought as a step towards marriage unless that's what the couple agreed on in advance. At least in Europe living together for years (and I'm talking 10+ years) with no engagement is very wide-spread. I know exactly one couple that cobabits long-term with no plans to marry, and that's because the guy got burned in his first divorce and he has been perfectly clear that he'll never marry again. Everyone else who cohabited got married or broke up---you know, just like any other couple. 1
lana-banana Posted August 4, 2017 Posted August 4, 2017 Cohabiting with no intent to marry is much more common in Europe than the US (France is the most extreme, I think). In the US, there's no strong link between the decision to cohabit and eventually marry. Anyone who makes any major decision without talking to their partner, and has expectations about what that decision means---that's on them! After nine months of dating I straight-up said I wasn't ready to get married but I wasn't going to be anyone's forever girlfriend, either. When we moved in together we agreed we would either be engaged or break it off. I don't think it's uncommon for couples to have serious discussions before they make major decisions. At least I sure hope it's not! I assume OP and her partner have talked about their expectations for what comes next. In retrospect, as someone who had a 13-month engagement (well, 13 months from engagement to wedding party, although we're technically already married), I think if you want anything more than a civil ceremony at the courthouse, you should give yourself two years. Many wedding venues are booked years in advance, dresses take an average of 9 months from start to finish, and the process of getting people together is surprisingly labor-intensive. We are managing just fine on our schedule but I sort of wish we had more time to do it, because we have tons of other life obligations to tend to. 2
No_Go Posted August 4, 2017 Posted August 4, 2017 Also keep in mind in Europe (most parts) living together is a legal status not much different from other marriage arrangement. E.g. in NL people listed 'living together' on their professional websites, one immediately qualifies as next of kin if listed with this status etc. I hope OP and her BF discussed marriage/engagement (of course if that is what she wants) before agreeing to live together. Otherwise it can come off as an awkward pressure talk... but probably still better to be done now than later. 2
Els Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 On the 50/50 thing....I think it's more important to be on the same page about what that means than to do the math. If you get hung up on the math you are already losing. My fiance makes more than I do, and I also have a long commute (so a lot more gas). Monetarily, he "pays" more than 50%, but I contribute significantly. When it comes to the household, cooking, cleaning, etc. I do more, but he helps as well. We don't get out the calculator and sweat. IMO, people who do THAT are probably not good partners anyway because whether practically or emotionally, a relationship is almost NEVER exactly 50-50 all the time. I agree with you. My point was that in general there needs to be some sort of rough balance (if one person is doing almost ALL the chores while splitting the bills down the middle, it is likely to wear their patience thin over time - I have seen this happen to a lot of women, and they usually start out with good intentions). But there is certainly no need to get the calculator out, and indeed doing so is detrimental. I brought up the 50/50 phrase to illustrate balance to the poster who claimed that anyone paying less money than their partner is opening the door to abuse/control. Some people choose to achieve balance in different ways, and I really do not see why people make such assumptions about them. Also keep in mind in Europe (most parts) living together is a legal status not much different from other marriage arrangement. E.g. in NL people listed 'living together' on their professional websites, one immediately qualifies as next of kin if listed with this status etc. This is true. In some countries, living together for a certain amount of time (3+ years in our country) automatically puts you in a de facto relationship, which is a legalized relationship status where the separation laws are on par with that of divorce. Essentially, you are considered as partnered in almost every aspect of the law, including taxes, immigration, eligibility for welfare/student allowance, etc. So if anyone was "hoping" that living together "lets them off the hook" as far as legal liabilities go, they'd better take a closer look at their laws. Based on the OP's post she sounds like she is in the US though, where that isn't the case.
d0nnivain Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 I would not recommend that he moves into your place. You guys should live together but either at his place or a new place. Moving into a girl's place is one of the worst things a guy can do. Why do you say that? My husband moved in to a house I owned before marriage. We have had no issues.
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