How soon is now....

[some_username1]

 

Good for you it worked out for you with the other girl. If you value easy sex a lot you probably took the right decision.

 

I do think however you are being a bit unfair towards the first girl. I am a multidater and I do expect monogamy before I sleep with someone. That you find this idea hilarious makes me a bit sad. Just because she's still using Tinder doesn't mean she's sleeping with other guys or has any less right to demand exclusivity before sleeping with you...

 

You obviously feel entitled to have sex without committment....which TBH isn't very gentlemanly.

 

With respect, your other thread suggests you are in a casual relationship whilst you are/were both seeing other people so it sounds like you might actually be on my side of the fence here. Although I should stress that I do not like casual relationships or all this multi-dating nonsense because I do have an old school attitude to dating, however I have been forced to update my dating strategy when dating girls online because they always seem to maintain their online presence even when they say they aren't. If you can't beat em, join em and from there it becomes easy to hold the opinion that sexual compatibility should be established before committing to a relationship.

 

You make a very good point of course- that she might not be using Tinder for anything more than a bit of fun, but (genuine question here as I would love a female perspective on this) if you had to put money on it would you be confident that it is just some funny chat she is looking for? Is it common for women to use it just for a laugh?

[some_username1]

I used to be a part of another Mars Venus dating board where the principles were based off of John Gray, the famous author and marital therapist of 30+ years. His guidelines were established based on his personal experience of what he saw made couples value each other and more successful long-term.

 

Most of the women on those boards were encouraged to multi-date without sleeping together so they could be objective about what a man was bringing to the table (as the oxytocin released can bond a woman quickly to someone who may not be healthy for her), and to wait for sex until after exclusivity is established by the man.

 

I know many other women who feel the same without having read those books, and personally I think they're sound guidelines for a solid foundation. So realize it's entirely possible that this woman is not stringing you along and may be waiting for a clear indication from you that you would like to be exclusive precisely because she does want a potential long-term relationship with you. Not everyone hops into bed right away despite popular cultural narratives to the contrary.

 

Okay, interesting advice! The suggestion of a popular narrative not being correct got me doing some digging....

 

There was a very recent yougov poll that found the majority of women in the UK in the age brackets under 44 claim that they themselves will have sex by the 3rd date when dating someone they like. More here:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/03/30/how-many-dates-should-you-wait-having-sex-someone/

 

So perhaps the narrative being presented in this thread by women that most will want exclusivity before sex is pretty outdated? It certainly seems plausible to me that given the fast and loose nature of dating these days there is no requirement for commitment before sex anymore.

 

Regarding the girl in my OP it is obviously certainly possible that she could be waiting for commitment but I would have thought she would have given a stronger indication that she wants to be boyfriend and girlfriend before anything further happens other than some foreplay in my car. How many dates is she expecting to sit through waiting for me to ask her if she will be my girlfriend before she loses interest?

[elaine567]

.

 

There was a very recent yougov poll that found the majority of women in the UK in the age brackets under 44 claim that they themselves will have sex by the 3rd date when dating someone they like. More here:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/03/30/how-many-dates-should-you-wait-having-sex-someone/

 

 

That is NOT what the figures say.

[sadpanda3]

With respect, your other thread suggests you are in a casual relationship whilst you are/were both seeing other people so it sounds like you might actually be on my side of the fence here. Although I should stress that I do not like casual relationships or all this multi-dating nonsense because I do have an old school attitude to dating, however I have been forced to update my dating strategy when dating girls online because they always seem to maintain their online presence even when they say they aren't. If you can't beat em, join em and from there it becomes easy to hold the opinion that sexual compatibility should be established before committing to a relationship.

 

You make a very good point of course- that she might not be using Tinder for anything more than a bit of fun, but (genuine question here as I would love a female perspective on this) if you had to put money on it would you be confident that it is just some funny chat she is looking for? Is it common for women to use it just for a laugh?

 

When I met the guy in the other post I really wasn't interested in him romantically. But he was hot and I hadn't had sex in quite a long time. So yeah, I'll admit I haven't been consistent on this one:) I don't sleep around though. I've had one sex partner in a year, but because I multidate people tend to assume I'm easy and act offended when I don't sleep with them after a second date. it's not like I have any less right than anyone else to decide when I feel comfortable enough to have sex....

 

I can totally relate with the bolded part. Online dating is tough!

 

I don't know about other women. Some use it for sex. Some for an ego stroke. Some are bored and want to pass time (swiping with your girlfriends can be really entertaining). Others are looking for a boyfriend. Some use it for all of the above! Everyone is different.

 

I wouldn't bet any money to tell you she's only looking for a funny chat. It is a possibility. I would however bet money on the fact that she's not extremely interested.

 

The biggest red flag for me is not that she's not sleeping with you or maintaining her Tinder profile. It's that she's lying about it when you ask her!

Any woman who is truly interested would take the hint, take down her Tinder profile and try to push the relationship forward. If she's lying about it, it means she's trying to keep her options open because she's having doubts about you (as opposed to keeping her options open because she assumes you're doing the same).

 

I wouldn't gauge a woman's interest on how fast she's willing to have sex with you. It just tells you how comfortable she is with her body. There are so many other signs you can look out for! If she's not interested she'll make it obvious in other ways.

[Tribble]

Tinder is a little complicated app and the evidence you have presented would not lead me to believe she is active on it. I travel for work and I don't want to match with people miles away so I try not to open it while I'm away. However, I still get people mile away, the app updates my location whether it is open or not. My photos also change order (something to do with an algorithm to present the best ones first). I don't even know how to change the order.

 

People are unique and different. We don't know why she is holding out. One of my friends met her bf on tinder, they have been dating 2 years, live together and still haven't had sex.

 

Bottom line is, her not wanting sex with you made you lose your interest in her. Fair enough. You should do the honourable thing and end things with her. You went out and slept with another girl. You obviously aren't that interested in the original girl. Whether she was multi-dating or not (and you do not know this to be the case), you aren't interested in her anymore. Don't blame her, I don't see she did anything wrong.

 

Your only 2 decent approaches are to 1) end it with her or 2) tell her you've been seeing other people and see if she still wants to see you. Slow fade is not a very decent response.

[heavenonearth]

I'd stop dating her just for wearing nothing but leggings and trainers. That's inappropriate. Those are for around the house or yard and to work out in, but I do not see it as her not dressing up "for you." I see it as her just being lazy and inappropriate in general, as well as disrespectful, but mostly just lazy, lazy, lazy.

 

 

 

You know, some people can't wear other type of clothing for health reasons, just saying. Don't judge a book by its cover.

[some_username1]

When I met the guy in the other post I really wasn't interested in him romantically. But he was hot and I hadn't had sex in quite a long time. So yeah, I'll admit I haven't been consistent on this one:) I don't sleep around though. I've had one sex partner in a year, but because I multidate people tend to assume I'm easy and act offended when I don't sleep with them after a second date. it's not like I have any less right than anyone else to decide when I feel comfortable enough to have sex....

 

I can totally relate with the bolded part. Online dating is tough!

 

I don't know about other women. Some use it for sex. Some for an ego stroke. Some are bored and want to pass time (swiping with your girlfriends can be really entertaining). Others are looking for a boyfriend. Some use it for all of the above! Everyone is different.

 

I wouldn't bet any money to tell you she's only looking for a funny chat. It is a possibility. I would however bet money on the fact that she's not extremely interested.

 

The biggest red flag for me is not that she's not sleeping with you or maintaining her Tinder profile. It's that she's lying about it when you ask her!

Any woman who is truly interested would take the hint, take down her Tinder profile and try to push the relationship forward. If she's lying about it, it means she's trying to keep her options open because she's having doubts about you (as opposed to keeping her options open because she assumes you're doing the same).

 

I wouldn't gauge a woman's interest on how fast she's willing to have sex with you. It just tells you how comfortable she is with her body. There are so many other signs you can look out for! If she's not interested she'll make it obvious in other ways.

 

Thanks, that is what I am thinking and also kind of what I want to hear I guess- that regardless of sex she is not fully invested and I am wasting my time pursuing further.

I agree that her words and her actions not lining up is the big issue rather than the sex and that is the part that is hard to look past because I have been here before with previous girls and it always ended with her facebook being updated with pics of her new guy (which wasnt me!). So I have learnt to be very wary of grand words whilst still maintaining an online presence.

I insist that I am happy to wait for sex with the right girl but that only makes sense if you know the other girl is all in, to make someone wait while you play the field on the sly is just wasting someone else's time. As much as I dislike multi-dating at least keeping my options open means the last month hasn't been totally pointless.

[some_username1]

Tinder is a little complicated app and the evidence you have presented would not lead me to believe she is active on it. I travel for work and I don't want to match with people miles away so I try not to open it while I'm away. However, I still get people mile away, the app updates my location whether it is open or not. My photos also change order (something to do with an algorithm to present the best ones first). I don't even know how to change the order.

 

People are unique and different. We don't know why she is holding out. One of my friends met her bf on tinder, they have been dating 2 years, live together and still haven't had sex.

 

Bottom line is, her not wanting sex with you made you lose your interest in her. Fair enough. You should do the honourable thing and end things with her. You went out and slept with another girl. You obviously aren't that interested in the original girl. Whether she was multi-dating or not (and you do not know this to be the case), you aren't interested in her anymore. Don't blame her, I don't see she did anything wrong.

 

Your only 2 decent approaches are to 1) end it with her or 2) tell her you've been seeing other people and see if she still wants to see you. Slow fade is not a very decent response.

 

As it turns out I think she is slow fading me so I am going to do nothing and let her go. We have chatted an awful lot so it is not hard to notice when someone's chat style starts to change, replies more infrequent and shorter, letting convos drop with flat responses etc. I had still been trying to engage her despite this but have now drawn a line. Best for us both to let this drop now.

 

To be fair there was an upleasant side to her personality that came out recently so she is certainly not perfect. I did try to look past it as I felt we had such good chemistry but I am at least glad that I don't have to try and make allowances for that anymore so it certainly isn't all doom and gloom!

[knabe]

No disrespect to you as I know you mean well by the overall message of your post, but the whole idea of a girl who is known to be active on Tinder being in a position to demand monogamy before sex is hilarious. Come on guys, form an orderly queue to gf up this chaste and pure multi-dater! For all we know she could be having sex right now while I play the role of the gentleman and wait for crumbs off the table.

 

To be honest, I have gone right off her now. I went on the date with the other girl (date 3) and she pulled out all the stops to make a great date and show how interested she is in me. It did end in sex and I feel much more attached to her as a result. Dating is so effortless with this girl, she tells me she isn't on Tinder and it looks like she isn't, it is such a contrast with the uncertainty that I feel with the girl in the OP. It is just a shame that I had instant 'spark' and 'chemistry' with the girl in the OP which I have pretty much never had before and her words made me feel like she felt the same way. But why would a girl who says those things still be on Tinder? I don't need girls who fake propriety and the girl I just recently dated deserves more respect than to be kept on the sidelines in favour of a girl who makes things so complicated.

 

As a sad addendum to this tale the girl in the OP mentioned me helping her out with moving some stuff out of her old house share. I had to laugh at that, how many times have we seen this on loveshack? She should be asking her boyfriend to help- until we have sex I am certainly not her boyfriend and won't be getting involved. She can maybe get on Tinder and find someone to do that for her.

 

The attitude that oozes from this post tells me you need to let her go. You're angry, resentful, and you have no respect for her. At this point I think it's just aboutv"winning" for you.

 

Quite frankly, SHE deserves better.

[some_username1]

The attitude that oozes from this post tells me you need to let her go. You're angry, resentful, and you have no respect for her. At this point I think it's just aboutv"winning" for you.

 

Quite frankly, SHE deserves better.

 

I am certainly not angry. Resentful? A bit, because of her words not matching her actions. Would you respect someone whose words did not match their actions?

 

I am just wary of being turned into an orbiter, useful for an ego boost and kept at arm's length while she shops around. Have a read on loveshack, this is a common trap that men who do not respect themselves fall into. 'Take it slow while I just date you' is fine, no problem with that. 'Take it slow while I still shop around' is something totally different and makes a guy feel like an orbiter if the physical aspect is not consistently escalating.

[olivetree]

Honestly OP, if I were her and she is the slow to warm up type as I suspected, I would not sleep with you until we had the exclusivity talk.

I am also not a multi-dater but I would leave my online profile up until it was obvious we were in a relationship.

Her leaving her profile up might be a hint to you that you better lock her down!

She is probably losing interest in you if you are not progressing the relationship and so is fading away.

 

Bottom line, your over concern with being an orbiter, second-pick, beta male, etc (pick whatever lingo suits you) is going to hold you back in dating.

You are losing focus on being a strong, unwavering man leading this relationship where you want it to go.

Toss aside your fear of rejection and go after what you want.

If you fail, oh well, but at least you tried.

[fred123]

just wanted to add my two cents. i do understand where OP is coming form because if you read my last thread i got screwed over a by a girl who told me she is a slow warmer etc and all the things that other people have said on here defending the girl I'm sorry i just believe its all lies. my story eventually told the truth. she was never into me and thats why she never slept with me so soon nd didnt do xyz.

 

so many people on here are quick to jump on there is a reason why she's so slow and maybe she is like this bla bla bla. my question to them is what if she wasn't slow with her exes and the new guy she meets after the OP. whats the excuse gonna be now? it will prove all the people on here who defended her wrong.

 

95 per cent of the time OP you are right. play the percentages. 95 per cent of the time she will probably have sex with a guy she likes within 5 dates max. watch how she sleeps with the next guy after you in 2 dates and probably dont mind if she does it in the back of a car. and I'm willing to put 100 grand on the fact she isn't into you. will the others back their claims with money? i dont thinks so. i dont think even they believe what they say about the fact that she is slow to warm up and you are being resentful. nah ur being clever

[some_username1]

just wanted to add my two cents. i do understand where OP is coming form because if you read my last thread i got screwed over a by a girl who told me she is a slow warmer etc and all the things that other people have said on here defending the girl I'm sorry i just believe its all lies. my story eventually told the truth. she was never into me and thats why she never slept with me so soon nd didnt do xyz.

 

so many people on here are quick to jump on there is a reason why she's so slow and maybe she is like this bla bla bla. my question to them is what if she wasn't slow with her exes and the new guy she meets after the OP. whats the excuse gonna be now? it will prove all the people on here who defended her wrong.

 

95 per cent of the time OP you are right. play the percentages. 95 per cent of the time she will probably have sex with a guy she likes within 5 dates max. watch how she sleeps with the next guy after you in 2 dates and probably dont mind if she does it in the back of a car. and I'm willing to put 100 grand on the fact she isn't into you. will the others back their claims with money? i dont thinks so. i dont think even they believe what they say about the fact that she is slow to warm up and you are being resentful. nah ur being clever

 

Men and women certainly look at things differently and have some gender related biases that colour our opinions. One of which that I notice on loveshack is that some women seem to refuse to acknowledge that women do like to keep guys as orbiters, if a girl is making a guy wait then there is usually an innocent explanation and that Tinder stuff is just harmless fun while out with the girls. By contrast it sounds like you have experienced exactly what I am wary of so it does happen.

 

And you make an interesting point about the consistency of a girl's dating habits. She was telling me early on about a certain former sports star that she finds attractive. Would she use the same dating strategy on him? Take it slow? Still be on Tinder? Probably not. Fair to say that she feels able to do that with me because on some level she is either unsure or she feels she doesn't have to lock me down.

 

I think you are right about the lack of interest. It feels like all the momentum has gone now. Date 5 was when we really seemed to be on the same page in every way possible and the natural next step seemed to be to see if we click in the bedroom. If we had then I would have absolutely made sure she was my girlfriend the next morning. It has gone really flat ever since though. She does not seem to be investing further and I'm a bit turned off and feel slightly teased. One that got away, unfortunately.

[olivetree]

Men and women certainly look at things differently and have some gender related biases that colour our opinions. One of which that I notice on loveshack is that some women seem to refuse to acknowledge that women do like to keep guys as orbiters, if a girl is making a guy wait then there is usually an innocent explanation and that Tinder stuff is just harmless fun while out with the girls. By contrast it sounds like you have experienced exactly what I am wary of so it does happen.

 

And you make an interesting point about the consistency of a girl's dating habits. She was telling me early on about a certain former sports star that she finds attractive. Would she use the same dating strategy on him? Take it slow? Still be on Tinder? Probably not. Fair to say that she feels able to do that with me because on some level she is either unsure or she feels she doesn't have to lock me down.

 

I think you are right about the lack of interest. It feels like all the momentum has gone now. Date 5 was when we really seemed to be on the same page in every way possible and the natural next step seemed to be to see if we click in the bedroom. If we had then I would have absolutely made sure she was my girlfriend the next morning. It has gone really flat ever since though. She does not seem to be investing further and I'm a bit turned off and feel slightly teased. One that got away, unfortunately.

 

You seem to have your mind made up, so do your thing.

Just saying that sometimes persistence pays off, sometimes it doesn't.

A woman can be unsure at first and then fall head over heels.

It has happened to me.

[some_username1]

You seem to have your mind made up, so do your thing.

Just saying that sometimes persistence pays off, sometimes it doesn't.

A woman can be unsure at first and then fall head over heels.

It has happened to me.

 

Of course and that is the moral of the story I guess: there is no one size fits all approach- you could be right about her being on the fence, Fred could be right that she is a time waster, or something else. I think Fred is right though about ultimately playing the percentages. It looks like a duck and quacks, sooo....

 

A good technique I have learned to adopt is to just leave it up to fate and say "with the right girl it will be effortless" and the fact that it isn't effortless (ie she isn't stepping up to the plate in general) doesn't inspire me to try harder. I won't do a 'pick me' dance and for the right girl I shouldn't have to. Simply by having sex I feel more connected to the other girl now and want things to work with her and it feels like it has fizzled out with the subject of the OP. We both missed our chance there and it wasn't just down to me.

[fred123]

You seem to have your mind made up, so do your thing.

Just saying that sometimes persistence pays off, sometimes it doesn't.

A woman can be unsure at first and then fall head over heels.

It has happened to me.

 

Thats more the exception rather than the rule

[fred123]

Also i will add this i got this from corey wayne.

Why not just date girls who have high interest and enthusiatic from th3 beginning? Yh if it aint effortless than move on.

Guarantee you she ill be effortless with a guy shes into.

[phineas]

Also i will add this i got this from corey wayne.

Why not just date girls who have high interest and enthusiatic from th3 beginning? Yh if it aint effortless than move on.

Guarantee you she ill be effortless with a guy shes into.

 

While i agree with you, i figured this stuff out a few yrs after my divorce after i'd wasted a lot of time on women who just wanted my attention and not me.

 

Once you meet a few women who make it easy, you never waste your time again on being "persistant" or chasing. it's pointless.

 

However having stuff going on in your life and maybe a FWB also help with the not chasing.

[Bastile]

With respect, your other thread suggests you are in a casual relationship whilst you are/were both seeing other people

 

 

That's normal. It's just part of women's game to try and boost their value by suggesting that they never have sex until commitment - in order to leverage sex into commitment. Or in order to shop around. The use of shame (in this case, that you "aren't a gentleman") is just a tactic getting you to dance to the tune.

 

My experience is that the majority of women will be having sex with one guy whilst keeping other guys in a holding pattern. This is just them sifting their options and trying to get the best deal.

 

You did the right thing. 3 dates for sex - 5 if you know it's getting there.

 

Are there some exceptions? Girls where really the actions match the words? Sure. But it's such a low amount that building a game around it is completely foolish.

 

Even if it's monogamy that you want, always aim to be the lover who's having sex - not the guy in the holding pattern.

 

You did the right thing. And you've got a good attitude - just adapting to the scene, and playing the hand that you're dealt.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Bastile

[sadpanda3]

 

That's normal. It's just part of women's game to try and boost their value by suggesting that they never have sex until commitment - in order to leverage sex into commitment. Or in order to shop around. The use of shame (in this case, that you "aren't a gentleman") is just a tactic getting you to dance to the tune.

 

That's absolutely not the case. If you read my previous post I clearly told the OP I think this girl is not interested. And I don't think a guy should waste any time/money on a girl who's not interested.

 

I have a problem with this attitude that a woman somehow owes you sex after a third date, or she'll be automatically labelled as a time waster and game player.

 

I guess you'd be pretty annoyed if a woman expected you to pay for a five star meal and a bouquet of flowers because it's been the third date. And you know, that's what guys who are interested do. Cut 'em loose if they don't.

[Bastile]

That's absolutely not the case.

 

Uh-huh.

 

It's a bog standard shyt-test, and you aren't the only one doing it to OP in this thread that has clearly said elsewhere that they have FWB's whilst looking for a provider.

 

C'est la vie.

 

I have a problem with this attitude that a woman somehow owes you sex after a third date, or she'll be automatically labelled as a time waster and game player.

 

It's very often the case that they are a time waster or game player. I can vouch for this also, along with what the other guys have said throughout.

 

Been on both sides of this myself. The guy being made to wait, whilst she gave it up to someone else. And the guy getting laid, whilst others were maid to wait.

 

Don't wait - escalate. That's what I say. 3 to 5 dates, or next to someone better.

 

No reason to play that game.

 

I guess you'd be pretty annoyed if a woman expected you to pay for a five star meal and a bouquet of flowers because it's been the third date. And you know, that's what guys who are interested do. Cut 'em loose if they don't.

 

Not really. Because it has no real-world relevance.

[guest569]

Wow. She wore leggings and didn't have sex on or before the 6th date and it's done and dusted. She said she wanted to take things slowly and you couldn't respect that. You kept putting the pressure on by scheduling sex (how romantic). I wouldn't be surprised if she felt this pressure and thought you just wanted sex.

 

I'm puzzled as to why you think a woman is not interested if she doesn't "prove" it by jumping into bed with you. If she is dating you, holding hands and kissing, surely these are signs. Takes time to get to know someone. Be patient and work on trust and confidence. It is difficult but essential whn putting yourself out there.

 

Many people on these forums have a rule, or advise others, not to have sex before becoming exclusive. Sometimes it takes time to decide if you want a relationship with someone. Sometimes takes time to build comfort, rapport, attraction.. I've had exs where our first kiss was on the 5th or 6th date. I was certainly interested but the time was right when it was right. Some first kisses were the 1st or 2nd date. Just relax!

[some_username1]

 

That's normal. It's just part of women's game to try and boost their value by suggesting that they never have sex until commitment - in order to leverage sex into commitment. Or in order to shop around. The use of shame (in this case, that you "aren't a gentleman") is just a tactic getting you to dance to the tune.

 

My experience is that the majority of women will be having sex with one guy whilst keeping other guys in a holding pattern. This is just them sifting their options and trying to get the best deal.

 

You did the right thing. 3 dates for sex - 5 if you know it's getting there.

 

Are there some exceptions? Girls where really the actions match the words? Sure. But it's such a low amount that building a game around it is completely foolish.

 

Even if it's monogamy that you want, always aim to be the lover who's having sex - not the guy in the holding pattern.

 

You did the right thing. And you've got a good attitude - just adapting to the scene, and playing the hand that you're dealt.

 

Coming from you Sir that is quite a compliment

 

It is funny to look back and consider how I never used to be this way and stuck fast to monogamous dating and being a consummate gentleman. It always seemed to work that way too....since facebook and dating apps I have had to seriously change the way I operate in order to keep a step ahead of the girls I try and date. Women themselves have wiped out the typical gentleman.

 

As you said, there are undoubtedly girls that are trying to stay chaste whilst dating one man at a time but they are so few and far between that it isn't worth catering to them specifically and just chalking it up to incompatible dating styles if it doesn't keep progressing.

I recall saying to her at the start how I like the idea of a girl taking it slow and building up some momentum, except for me, with most of the girls I have dated in the past (and I don't go looking for girls who give it up at the drop of a hat, trust me) 5 dates IS slow. I can't begin fathom what 'taking it slow' means to her. I don't expect to find out either.

 

Good luck to her though, she has a strategy and is sticking to it, we are just incompatible in that respect and that is the way it goes. Sucks cus she had an engaging personality and a killer body, but the girls with the killer bodies are usually the ones with the biggest collection of orbiters.

[some_username1]

Wow. She wore leggings and didn't have sex on or before the 6th date and it's done and dusted. She said she wanted to take things slowly and you couldn't respect that. You kept putting the pressure on by scheduling sex (how romantic). I wouldn't be surprised if she felt this pressure and thought you just wanted sex.

 

I'm puzzled as to why you think a woman is not interested if she doesn't "prove" it by jumping into bed with you. If she is dating you, holding hands and kissing, surely these are signs. Takes time to get to know someone. Be patient and work on trust and confidence. It is difficult but essential whn putting yourself out there.

 

Many people on these forums have a rule, or advise others, not to have sex before becoming exclusive. Sometimes it takes time to decide if you want a relationship with someone. Sometimes takes time to build comfort, rapport, attraction.. I've had exs where our first kiss was on the 5th or 6th date. I was certainly interested but the time was right when it was right. Some first kisses were the 1st or 2nd date. Just relax!

 

The key issue is whether everything is congruent or not. If you haven't kissed by the 5th date then you could argue that sex by, say, the 10th date would be congruent with not having kissed until the 5th, so a guy can infer that there is no ulterior motive.

 

My situation, by contrast, does not feel congruent. By date 4 the foreplay in my car was pretty intense and she was leading it, climbing all over me, hand in my lap etc. So based on that the next logical step in terms of congruency is inviting her over, right? Except what actually happened was she had a headache and couldn't end the date quick enough with a kiss on the lips. This is probably the root cause of this thread, if we had only just kissed by date 5 this thread may not exist.

 

So it doesn't seem realistic to me that a girl can escalate so early yet still think a guy will be happy about waiting another 5 dates or agree exclusivity before it goes any further. She has every right to do that of course, but the guy can also decide whether he thinks she is really as chaste as she wants to be or whether there is a game at work.

[elaine567]

Wow. She wore leggings and didn't have sex on or before the 6th date and it's done and dusted. She said she wanted to take things slowly and you couldn't respect that. You kept putting the pressure on by scheduling sex (how romantic). I wouldn't be surprised if she felt this pressure and thought you just wanted sex.

 

I'm puzzled as to why you think a woman is not interested if she doesn't "prove" it by jumping into bed with you. If she is dating you, holding hands and kissing, surely these are signs. Takes time to get to know someone. Be patient and work on trust and confidence. It is difficult but essential whn putting yourself out there.

 

Many people on these forums have a rule, or advise others, not to have sex before becoming exclusive. Sometimes it takes time to decide if you want a relationship with someone. Sometimes takes time to build comfort, rapport, attraction.. I've had exs where our first kiss was on the 5th or 6th date. I was certainly interested but the time was right when it was right. Some first kisses were the 1st or 2nd date. Just relax!

 

Agreed.

I think the insistence on the third date rule by many men, is based on insecurity and panic.

Fine if the idea is to bed as many women as possible in a short period of time, but using the third date rule to gauge compatibility and suitability for a long term relationship is very flawed thinking.

 

Relationships are a bit like having a baby, the timeline is not so important as the existence of progress. If progress is being made albeit slowly then all is well, if progress halts or there are backward steps then them may be an issue that needs addressed.

 

Some women love sex and will not even consider 3 date sex and some women hate sex and will give it up on the date 3 easily, so I am not sure why some men think that third date sex is the sign of a woman who inherently likes and wants sex.