She's still using Tinder

[The411]

Let me set up the background. I'm a 41 year old male, in sales, have 2 boys who live with me about 50% of the time. I live in upstate NY, mostly rural area. She is 38, a daughter who lives with her sometimes, she's in sales.

 

I'm a picky person when it comes to dating. First of all, I'm more of a city guy, stuck in very rural area. I don't drive a pick up, or go mudding, or listen to country music, which is what most of the girls in this area like. I'm college educated, drive European cars, drink craft beer, and wear nice clothes. Many of the females in this area are uneducated, unemployed, and wear their pajamas out in public. Plus, I like a woman who doesn't go to bars, doesn't do drugs, works a decent job, etc.

 

As far as finding a date, I usually have no problem. But finding a woman I want to go on a second date with, that's where I run into issues.

 

So, this current woman, we've been seeing each other about 2 months now. She introduced me to her family, she brought me out to introduce me to her old high school friends. We pretty much spend any time together when we don't have our kids, and sometimes when we do.

 

I started to think that maybe I should ask her if we're ready to define our relationship, picking up on queues such as her asking me to meet her parents. I'm going over to her rental, that she rents out to college students, to help her clean it up and do some work around the place. This is when I was going to ask her if she's ready to begin discussing our relationship. But pretty much as soon as I got there, I heard the Tinder notification. Threw me off at first, but then I looked at my phone, realized it wasn't me, then I remembered the sound. It was Tinder, when someone swipes right, and you match up. Which means that she had to actively swipe right. My heart stopped for a few minutes, and I almost packed up and left at the moment. But I stayed there, and finished helping her for the night.

 

When I left, I texted her. I guess I was too nervous to confront her in person. I know we weren't a couple yet, so I had no right to be mad, technically this isn't cheating yet, and it's only been a couple months. But her replies set me back a little, made me question. She was very defensive, and I attempted to be understanding and open.

 

Me: Should I worry about your Tinder notification?

 

Her: No silly

 

Me: You had to swipe right to get that notification. But we never discussed us, so I can't complain

 

Her: No need to get paranoid over nothing

 

Me: Not so much paranoid, more like I don't want to look like a fool. I'm trying to plan something for your birthday while you may or may not still be searching the market (which you have every right to, we never declared ourselves an item) but should I scale back any plans? I guess I'd rather know where you are than be blindsided

Me: We can talk later, I know you're tired.

 

Her: Nothing really to talk about. Happy the way things are right now. no need to make them complicated. Yes-app is on my phone. No-not looking for anything else right now. Geez

 

Next morning

 

Me: All good. I guess I need to slow myself down a little bit.

 

Her: Why does getting involved with anyone just end up being mind games and stress and tiptoeing around to ensure every single thing I do or say doesn't get somehow taken wrong or turned around to be somehow be personally offensive and overthought and a huge big deal? Everything really doesn't need to be that complicated.

 

Me: I'm not trying to play games. I told you before that I prefer honesty. I don't own you, I'm not married to you, you can use Tinder as much as you want. All I needed to know is whether we were on the same page or not. I deleted Tinder, you are still opening it up and swiping right. Obviously we are on different pages. Good to know.

Me: I'm tired of falling for people and getting hurt. I need to protect myself because I'm falling for you, hard!

Me: And if you tell me it's nothing, then I have to believe that it's nothing.

Me: I don't want to stop seeing you. And I'm not trying to play games.

Me: Now I know that I need to be better than any guy that swipes right on you. Keep me on my toes.

 

Her: And how do you know the tinder notification didn't finally result from a swipe months ago?

I've learned not to fall for people-just ends up in hurt and dissapointment. Is what it is.

 

Me: That could be true as well. It's up to you to be open and honest with me. And I can only trust what you tell me. I really don't want to disappoint you. And I feel like talking further about this will only look like I'm guilting you. I don't want that either. Just know that I still feel the same for you right now. Just a little hiccup that will fade away.

 

And that's pretty much the last we spoke of it. Been a few days. She still has the Tinder app, saw it on her phone.

 

First of all, I realize that I was quick to jump to conclusions and blame her. But the proof was right there. She never offered to delete the app, or really came out and said the story one way or another.

 

So, all I can do is assume that she is using it. If she wasn't, then she would delete the account. I want her to do this on her own. I don't want to guilt her into deleting it. I don't want to come across as controlling. She is a very independent woman.

 

At the same time, I'm going on dates with this woman, who is showing herself to be available on Tinder. Other people may notice her. If it was the first few dates, I'd understand. Plus, it shows we are not on the same page. I'm putting time and effort into this relationship, which makes me more emotionally attached. The more time and effort, the more I fall. I also feel like a casual relationship to her. Someone who she is comfortable with until she finds someone better for her. Then I'll be left with nothing but a broken heart. (which I'm used to, but trying to avoid)

 

What do you all think? Continue as normal? Back off a little, give her some space? Ask her to tell me if she is currently talking to other guys? This is beginning to create anxiety. Trying to stay away from anxiety. I do like her, a lot. We have a lot in common, and get along very well. And she is a fine woman.

 

1. A man never asks for exclusivity.

2. Once you suspect a partner love interest of being dishonest the relationship/relationship to be is dunzo.

3. Don't ask questions you know the answer to. You heard the tinder beep and you immediately had a visceral reaction to it because you knew what it meant. What followed was pointless and lowered your value in her eyes because you already knew the answer.

4. Trust your gut. Men get into so many problems because they don't trust their and try to rationalize away their instinct with denial, which only keeps them involved in dead end "relationships", which wastes time and prevents them from getting into good relationships.

[Miss Spider]

Y'all are crazy!

 

Every time we find someone, it's an opportunity to make something great. A chance to build something. If we give up at every little obstacle, then we'll never get what we want. These are just little bumps in the road. If you want something bad enough, you'll fight for it, through anything.

 

I choose to fight for this. I'm not going to allow every little obstacle tell me that I need to give up on a woman. I don't know what's going through her mind

and I'm not going to jump to the worst conclusions. You all can say what you want, but this is a fight I'm going to win, or at leat give everything I have trying. If I lose, I lose. But, damn, I learned in life that if there is something you want, you fight for it, even if I have to fight others to get it.

 

I listened to all of you, and thought about your advice, but in the end, it was my own insecurities that looked for help here. I've talked with her, and we are still getting along, the energy between us is still growing. And I feel kind of bad about sharing our conversation. I will probably delete this thread and catch up with you all in the future, and let you know how things panned out. I'm going to fight for this woman and gain her trust and love. That's my goal.

 

Op, you seem to have a lot of stuff going for you(according to original post) that would make you a very desirable man, and all this is very sweet and stuff, but you appear to have an acute case of Nice Guy Syndrome. Your"fighting"(letting her cross your boundaries, etc) for this woman is not going to draw her closer to you, it's going to make you look needy and push her away. You attract a woman to by being a confident, secure man.. This woman knows you are desperate for her and it's undoubtedly turned her off. I would be very surprised if this text conversation was the first time you displayed such neediness. I understand it bc I have been that way too at times but human nature is just to run from that energy.

 

 

I get women who interest you long-term are hard to find and you've invested a lot so you're attached...you're operating on sunk cost fallacy here. You keep making justifications and excuses for her and staying in, but the fact remains. You are in a pretty serious relationship with this girl and is still hitting up dudes on Tinder

 

She cannot be trusted. She does not respect you. Search for another girl ...

Edited July 29, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[TheTraveler]

But she's open to the idea of making new friends, but she's not looking.

 

Oh she's definitely looking.

 

You're the filler of her time for now, until she meets a better guy for her.

[morrowrd]

Until you have established your relationship, she doesn't owe you an explanation. Here's the problem though, with online dating - the online dating culture is one where strangers are meeting, and all you know is what the profile tells you, and what they present to you in the first few meetings, or dates. Everyone is on their best behavior, until you connect the dots. Usually if there is a second or third date, there's a physical attraction, AND an attraction to the image being presented. Sex almost always happens early on, and the emotional bonding process begins, then as the true picture becomes clearer, (more and more of the dots connect), things don't look as good as we thought. That's why ghosting happens, the abrupt withdrawal of communication, and unavailability. (I'm busy at work is usually one of the most common excuses).

 

You are new to all this, so be ready for the above to happen....regularly. Online dating takes patience. Reading your texts, you are waffling because (I'm guessing) you're afraid of losing her. My guess is you are, and you are also losing yourself because you're waffling, afraid to say what you mean because you don't want to offend her. Asking an honest question, then backpeddling, is bad, it's harmful to your confidence...as is whining about being afraid of getting hurt. Be careful not to put on the pathetic hat. Call a spade a spade when needed, and suck up the consequences. Unless you're willing to do that, say nothing. The talk about "swiping right" should really happen when you're having your conversation about defining your relationship. Then is the time to bring up what you can expect, what she can expect from you. Personally, I feel dating profiles should be deleted all together, (as opposed to hidden) once you've established yourselves as a couple. Deleting the profile is a good faith offering of trust. Remember trust is earned, not given blindly and by deleting your profile, you're saying, I'm only going to invest in you, and that's it.

 

"Microwave dating" is my nickname for the online dating world. Meeting women is incredibly easy. Women meeting men is incredibly easier.... and everyone is looking to trade up constantly, just because its so easy, and so discreet. The apps allow you to communicate with multiple people, not to mention meet new people 24/7. And for some people it's an addiction. Giving up on future opportunities send the other person the message of "I know what I want, and you're it." Those who keep the apps, or to go even further, those who keep the apps and continue to review profiles, while in a dating relationship, will ghost as soon as something better comes around. And that's what she's doing.

 

Although in her defense, she's not really in a relationship with you. I know when I was online dating, I kept my apps active, right up until sex was involved. In my own moral code, I feel once you do that, you've sent the other person a strong message that you're "together" and if the talk about your relationship status hasn't happened, it really should at that point. It's only fair because like I mentioned, sex creates an emotional bond, especially for women - but men too. The relationship grants security and provides a framework for you to explore the possibility of creating a life together. Those that date and sleep with multiple people, are being careless with themselves and others. Those are the game-players.

Edited July 29, 2017 by morrowrd

[salparadise]

Basically, she wants a casual relationship. But if I decide to see someone else, then she will be upset, but can't hold me back. But she's open to the idea of making new friends, but she's not looking. So, everything she says is confusing. I like ketchup, but I put mayo on my burger ...

 

The reason it's confusing is because the words and actions are not aligned. She's giving you just enough (verbally) to encourage you to your continuing allegiance, to keep meeting her need for attention, sex and temporary companionship. She enjoys it, but she doesn't respect it. She holds all the power, perhaps even takes pleasure in making you feel emasculated, and you're hanging on by the skin of your teeth to what little you're getting in return for all of your sincerity and dedication... and waiting for the other shoe to drop.

 

Sometime during the weekend, I'm going to tell her flat out, that we either go exclusive, or I walk. I don't mind being casual, but open I can't handle.

 

Ugh, don't you realize the futility of that ultimatum? Even if you coerced her into agreement, what would you have... a woman who is reluctantly exclusive in word, but no more invested or committed.

 

I doubt that this is retrievable; she's either not that into you, or she's emotionally closed with an inability to attach. The net result for you is the same. I can relate to your motivation... hot woman, good sex, genuine feelings of affection and attachment. But it isn't reciprocated and it's driving you nuts, so you're trying to please and appease in hopes that she'll see the light and fall in love with you. This is codependent behavior.

 

The problem is that you're giving away your dignity, and you need your dignity more than you need the scraps she's willing to give. If you wait until she dumps you, because you're too easy, or because she finds a suitable replacement, you'll have a hard time finding your dignity again. But if you walk away for your own reasons, then you get to take it with you.

 

You're pursuing her like a wifey, while she's using you like a phukk buddy. If you can't reverse that dynamic (and I don't think you can because of your need to be loved) you're going to end up hurt and wondering why you weren't worthy... while she's monkey branching and bed hopping like a bonobo.

[guest569]

Get on tinder and find someone better. . She's on tinder. Why not?

[lolablue17]

OK, I've read the whole thread... I can give you my objective opinion.

 

1. This little crisis is not only bad because it gives you a chance to know her better. People don't marry immediately after their firs date, because they need to know eachother better under mutual experiences. The problem is you leared few things about her, yet you refuse to admit what you have leared, and insist ignorint this knowledge.

 

2. I'm an expert in conversations. (I've created so many of them in the last 20 years in my successful career). I've read you conversation right after the Tinder issue. I really don't know her but this was a chance to see how this woman reacts when you push her agains the wall.

 

A. She is an expert, a pro in "blame shifting".

 

B. The BS she sold you, leading you to think that maybe you're reaction is the problem, also show a lot about her instincts - Not to listen, not to care about another person, but be focused on herself only, and to hell with averybody else.

 

C. Let me say it very clear - there was nothing wrong with your reaction, even further, your reaction was much calmer, much more modest than my reaction if I was in that situation. She is the one who got caught!!!! Not cheating, but she got caught talking to other guys on a dating app. She didn't want you to know that. But you found out. So, instead of trying to calm you down and make efforts to show you that she's into you only, she starts playing mind games, to blur everything (a classic pattern of people who get caught), and blaming you with things that she's doing, not you.

 

Don't you think that these things get better. They get worse in time. Every time you'll have a disagreement, or you show her that she's wrong, you'll get the same reaction - blame shifting, bluring everything, and selfishness.

 

3. You say that you doesn't care much if she stays or go. HELLO??? Don't you see it's a sign that she not the one? Your guts and your heart is announcing you loud and clear - "she's not the one", and yet you ignore it. Why? Because you invested 2 month, because it's hard to find good women in your countryside district. Are these the right reasons for chossing a long term partner? I certainly don't think so.

 

 

When I tell a girl that something bothers me, I definitely expect her to listen, and to try to ease things on me as her first priority, and all the other things should come after that. I do the same, even if it's the first date. Even if it's not a date, even if it's a single meeting with someone stranger. When a person tells me "I'm bothered with X", I'm trying to figure out how can I can help. She didn't. She could have told you immediatelly that she is willing to delete |Tinder immediatelly, or she could say "yes, I talk with guys on Tinder, and if it botheres you let's talk about it, I wanna listen". It doesn't mean she must delete it, it means she understand you're upset, and willing to open an honest conversation about it. But she was just stringing you along, bluring things, not directly answering, insisting that "there is nothing to talk about". How come there's nothing to talk about, if you've just said it bothers you?

 

You read the signs. You know what they mean. It seems, you're so exhausted from dating so you decided to park, without caring if it's ther right parking spot for you.

[fred123]

Your text exchange was fine. She knows by your convo that you dont like the fact she is on tinder and she knows you like her a lot. Now imagine of it was brad pitt who said what you said. Her response would be so different and she would have apoligised and reassured him. Why? Cos she probs into him and not that into you. Id put my mortgage on it

[guest569]

Your text exchange was fine. She knows by your convo that you dont like the fact she is on tinder and she knows you like her a lot. Now imagine of it was brad pitt who said what you said. Her response would be so different and she would have apoligised and reassured him. Why? Cos she probs into him and not that into you. Id put my mortgage on it

 

All she had to do was be honest and say "I'm not quite ready and yes I'm still on tinder" and go from there. Sucks she is still looking but lying made it so much worse.

You're right, if she was certain and didn't want to lose OP it would be a totally different response from her. She would have simply deleted tinder and devoted her full attention to him. Sad but that didn't happen and i think op needs to be very wary. I mean, it might work out but the lying is a big deal

Edited July 29, 2017 by smiley1

[Miss Spider]

Your text exchange was fine. She knows by your convo that you dont like the fact she is on tinder and she knows you like her a lot. Now imagine of it was brad pitt who said what you said. Her response would be so different and she would have apoligised and reassured him. Why? Cos she probs into him and not that into you. Id put my mortgage on it

 

 

The only reason why "Brad Pitt" could away with it is because we all know by his good looks and success he is most likely not desperate, has bountiful options, and if he said "Now I know that I need to be better than any guy that swipes right on you. Keep me on my toes." he's just saying it to woo/ game. For OP, it's the truth. He telling her he's not good enough for her but he'll try to be better so she doesn't pick another guy. If you one-off come on a little strong, it's given lee-way, can even be very endearing. . True desperation is not. Why do I get the impression the emotional bomb OP set off texts is not a once in awhile thing for him. Showing no backbone (sorry OP) with a woman already not that into him was not a good move.

 

You're right. She's not that into him yet or she wouldn't still be swiping in the first place, but op text and the rest of his posts make it clear that at least part of the reason is he has put her on a pedestal and she knows it. Even if Pitt became so smitten for a woman he would let her walk all over him and she knew he wasn't going anywhere, eventually she'd start doing it too. Not like she has anything to lose by it.

[fred123]

The only reason why "Brad Pitt" could away with it is because we all know by his good looks and success he is most likely not desperate, has bountiful options, and if he said "Now I know that I need to be better than any guy that swipes right on you. Keep me on my toes." he's just saying it to woo/ game. For OP, it's the truth. He telling her he's not good enough for her but he'll try to be better so she doesn't pick another guy. If you one-off come on a little strong, it's given lee-way, can even be very endearing. . True desperation is not. Why do I get the impression the emotional bomb OP set off texts is not a once in awhile thing for him. Showing no backbone (sorry OP) with a woman already not that into him was not a good move.

 

You're right. She's not that into him yet or she wouldn't still be swiping in the first place, but op text and the rest of his posts make it clear that at least part of the reason is he has put her on a pedestal and she knows it. Even if Pitt became so smitten for a woman he would let her walk all over him and she knew he wasn't going anywhere, eventually she'd start doing it too. Not like she has anything to lose by it.

 

ok forget brad pitt. my point is if a guy she was really into said that and he felt insecure, she would reassure him and respond completely differently. like u said a girl would find it endearing if she's into you right? if she isn't she would find it how she is with OP? (I'm a guy btw so trying to figure out how woman are!)

[AGuyInCNY]

Well, I decided to not tell her that I demand that she be exclusive, because, as some of you pointed out, I wouldn't feel that it was sincere.

 

I have already downloaded Tinder, shortly after I found out. I've chatted with a few women, got nowhere.

 

Now, I've come across an old friend, we had a short fling, but we were never in the right spot at the right time to become a couple. But we both know that we have a lot in common, and are into each other.

 

So, now to complicate matters more, I asked her on a date next weekend. I guess it's not cheating since me and Tinder girl are still "open". Do I tell her anything, or just do things as normal? Then simply go on the date with this other girl? I don't feel like I owe Tinder girl an explanation after the way she treated me. But, despite the whole not knowing if she's flirting with other men or not, we are getting along just fine.

 

Yeah, I've never been in a situation like this before. I was married way too long, and this modern dating game is weird. Where are the old fashioned women?

[TheTraveler]

You don't owe the tinder girl anything. Go on the date

[BluesPower]

You don't tell her anything...

 

And if she asks you to do something that day just say, "Oh, sorry, I have plans".

 

Then you leave it at that. Anything else and you will look weak and vindictive.

 

There is a chance, a small chance mind you, that if you are not at her beck and call when she wants company that she may start taking you seriously.

 

She, MIGHT, start to take a look at what she has VS what she could get on tinder. There is no way to tell. But the thing is, you are not waiting around on her and you are living your life.

 

Could be that you will actually find someone to have a relationship with that you even like better.

[AGuyInCNY]

Ok, you guys are right.

 

Part of me wants to tell her, but I can keep it in. Not in a vindictive way, just an informative way. Part of me wishes she would do the same, since we are involved in unprotected sex now. (I'm fixed and she's on the pill, and we have both been tested recently)

 

But it's not like I'll be having sex on the first date, well, there's a chance, but still. I can keep my mouth shut for a week and a half.

 

Wish me luck. I really, really do get along with this other girl. We have so much in common. I was completely shocked to find her single, and jumped right on that.

[AGuyInCNY]

Next question. I'm going to say that I don't tell her, but ... do I tell the new girl about my semi-relationship? Or just keep it quiet? I don't want her to think I'm cheating on someone if she somehow finds out later that I was 'dating' this Tinder girl.

 

Yes, I do overthink things. I often feel like one mistake ruins a relationship forever, or maybe it's because my crazy ex-wife always brought up every mistake I ever made.

[BluesPower]

Next question. I'm going to say that I don't tell her, but ... do I tell the new girl about my semi-relationship? Or just keep it quiet? I don't want her to think I'm cheating on someone if she somehow finds out later that I was 'dating' this Tinder girl.

 

Yes, I do overthink things. I often feel like one mistake ruins a relationship forever, or maybe it's because my crazy ex-wife always brought up every mistake I ever made.

 

Good grief... Look, I know you have been out of the game but come on, you are kind of acting like a girl, no offense girls.

 

You are not in a committed relationship with your other GF, she is on tinder and she blew you off. Very disrespectful of her BTW.

 

So basically you are just a little bit more that a FWB for your "GF". You may even be the #1 FWB. OK?

 

So if you are dating other women you just date them. If one or the other asks you a question about others you don't lie you tell the truth.

 

AND BTW, the "Truth" is "Yes, I see other people." Now if you have one that you like, you can wait for her to ask the exclusive question, you never ask first.

 

So if you feel like you want to be exclusive with a particular girl the you just let the others know, hey I have someone that I am going to try a relationship with.

 

Is that more clear? Never lie, don't talk too much, let them talk about their selves, and never volunteer information that you don't need to.

[Poutrew]

Damn... you really have been out of the game, haven't you... Don't tell either girl about the other. You are not exclusive with either one at this point: girl #1 blew you off, girl #2 is only first date. Now, if you get serious with girl #2, dump girl #1, or vice versa. Be honest with either one if asked... say you are open at this point and am fully willing to become exclusive and delete tinder app... then have some fun!

[AGuyInCNY]

Haha. Ok, take it easy on me, guys and gals.

 

One can say that I've never really been in the game in my adult life. I was married for 15 years, then took a couple years to get my crap together, then fell right into a pretty serious 3 year relationship. In that relationship, we pretty much fell for each other right away and mutually became exclusive.

 

Other than that, I've had some one night stands, and a bunch of 1st dates that went nowhere.

 

Oh, and in my 15 year marriage, the wife was verbally abusive, and somewhat physically as well. She would cuss, insult, throw things, and sometimes scratch me with her claws, leaving blood. I tried to keep it together for the kids; she wore me down. I learned to become passive, so as not to upset her. Maybe that reflects in my current way of handling women?

 

Perhaps I should forget relationships, and stick to one night stands ... easier that way.

[fieldoflavender]

The only thing is lying by omission. Some clueless people think you are dating exclusively and some people don't like being physical with more than one person at a time - me included. I don't mind going on dates with more than 1 person at a time, but I don't like being physical with more than one person at a time, and I don't like that person being physical with other people while being physical with me. They can keep doing that but I will put a stop to it.

 

But not everyone has awareness so you may need to gage whether that person thinks you're exclusive or there may be hurt feelings.

 

But yeah tinder girl you owe nothing to.