Cell phone record proof of infidelity?

[Trashman]

Hey, my wife just left me. She says for good, who knows?

 

Her main gripe is a record of lots of phone call between me and another lady. I told her that it was all phone calls and that I haven't even seen the other woman in almost two months- we were good friends and used to work together.

 

Now she says she's going to divorce me and considering my "unfaithfulness" that she can clean me out in court.

 

I told her it was nothing physical but she doesn't even seem to care about that. Her reasoning is that the phone calls prove that if nothing else, I had placed my friendship with another woman above my friendship with her, which I really can not deny. My question is, do phone calls alone count in court as adultery or any other offense that will allow her to take me to the cleaners?

[LucreziaBorgia]

Depends on your state. In my state, it is grounds for alienation of affection and criminal conversation: both of which allow the betrayed spouse to sue the OP for monetary damages.

[Trashman]

What exactly is "monetary damages"? Does that mean that she can sue me for money over emotional pain and suffering cause by the phone calls?

[brashgal]

I suggest googling the name of your state and divorce and read up. In many states, infidelity does not influence the judgement.

[Craig]

Better yet, get yourself to a divorce attorney ASAP.

[Trashman]

I googled Georgia's divorce laws, and apparently they really try to enforce the marriage. So they make you have a reason for divorce. The most common one is "irretrievable differences" or something like that. Basical John tells the court "I can't stand her anymore and I want a divorse." The other reasons are ADULTERY, being pregant before the marriage without the spouse's knowledge, mental retardation, and a bunch of other stuff that doesn't pertain- unless you consider me retarded. Anyway, I guess the closest thing that applies is adultery, but I'm not sure how the court would define that or how it is proven. If adultery in Georgia is intercourse (as I imagine it would be) then I guess I'm in the clear. However, I am no fan of our legal system, and I could imagine some slick-suited lawyer convincing 12 idiots that the phone calls count as adultery.

 

I guess I'm calling up one of them slick-suited lawyers first thing in the morning. Or maybe Monday since it's Friday night and I can't imagine a lawyer working weekends.

[Craig]

I'm not an attorney but after a brief look at the Georgia Codes I strongly recommend that you do not talk to your wife about going to an attorney or anything that you are doing regarding protecting yourself from her and the divorce. I don't think she knows what she's doing or saying (based on what you've said) and it's important that you don't do or say anything that might cause her to get herself to a smart attorney.

 

In other words I think you might have an advantage here that she doesn't seem to know about. If I'm wrong that's because I'm not an attorney. Remember, keep what you are doing and what your plans secret to only yourself until you talk with an attorney. Don't tell your mother, your dog, your best friend--don't tell anybody of your plans.

[Lonestar]

Seems that you're more concerned about whether she can "clean you out" as opposed to fixing your marriage. You're on the defense, ready to defend what's rightfully yours and prove to her that she can't take you down. Getting a slick lawyer will show her just that. You are now treating her as the enemy, an opposition to destroy.

 

This defense will get you nowhere with your marriage and will make your divorce a living hell. Finding the best attorney is near impossible unless you have loads of money, and I'm guessing you're not Donald Trump or any type of financial guru. Attorneys are overworked, stressed, human, and fallible. They are the creators of so much evil and wrongdoing in divorce courts because their main goal is to make the divorce dificult, and delay the end so they can make as much money as possible.

 

That all being said, do you want to work things out with your wife, or not? Is this new telephone relatinship with your female friend worth the loss of your family and the destruction of both your worlds? You chose another woman over your wife, and right now she is terribly hurt and angry. Even more so now because you are not taking responsiblity for your actions. Instead you are excusing them as no big deal which only makes her feelings and pain insignificant.

 

If this woman is only your friend, and you love your wife, then you should choose your wife over her and begin to repair your relationship. It's your burden to bear. How you choose to do that is your choice, but take a good look at yourself and what you want the ultimate outcome to be. Don't react on pride. Pride has no place in matters of love. Stop the war before it kills you both.

[A Fly onThe Wall]

Georgia is a 31 day , no fault divorce state.. It only takes one to get a divorce in Ga..

and all it takes is that person to say " I want out " nobody has to prove fault..

and 31 days after filing you can be divorced if it's uncontested by the other party.

 

Fault can be used to define the line for the division of assets. But generally they almost always fall on the 50/50 mark of marital assets. It an equitable distribution state meaning fair not 50/50

 

Inheritance and what you had before you were married are considered yours in the divroce and are not subject to the 50/50 split unless you have sold something and repurchased it in her name.

[Trashman]

Thanks for all the info and advice.

 

Lonestar, I'm not sure what I want at this point. I agree that no friendship is worth losing a marriage over, but at the same time this person and I are good friends and we have even went out on double dates in the past (she and I with our spouses). Her husband is fine with the contact we have, and even gave her permission to ask me to take a trip with her, because she didn't want to make the drive by herself and he was unable to accompany her. Of course I had to say no because my wife would have exploded if I so much as brought up the idea.

 

Now I had to tell the friend that we needed to cut back on the phone calls, and she figured out pretty quickly that it was because of my jealous wife. I felt pretty stupid and embarrassed at that point. She wanted us all to go down to her family's home at the beach and spend a weekend, but again I had to refuse for the same reason. Well, the wife was successful in driving apart my friend's and my communication, because now the friend doesn't want to get me in trouble with my jealous spouse. The whole situation stinks.

 

This isn't the first time she has caused problems with my friendships either. Most of my old hometown friends have become isolated from me for years now, after an event where the wife (back when we were just dating) and one of my best friends growing up (again, a female) got into it over a dispute involving living arrangements and that my wife up and left the friend with six months worth of lease on their apartment. Lots of different arguments came up over that, and me trying to be the defending boyfriend, of course I tried to side with the now wife. Needless to say, not many of them talk to me anymore. Sure, we're all civil and send an email every once in a while, but when the invitations to parties and what not get sent out, I conveniently get overlooked because no one wants the other half around.

 

We used to play roleplaying games several years ago with other groups of friends- usually weekly gaming sessions (yes we are nerds). We went through two groups before I finally threw in the towel because everyone eventually left the group because they unanimously decided she was a raging bitch. Each time, the players formed their own group and invited me personally to join (again, without my wife) but of course I had to decline because my wife thought she was in the right each time and I didn't want her to feel betrayed by me going off and participating in something she was not invited to.

 

For the last several years, I have been the sole supporter of our household because she was too lazy to get a job even when times were tough. For five years now she has been unemployed when she was perfectly capable of work. I would come home after being on call and working sometimes 30+ hours at a time, and the house would be filthy and she would be sleeping in until almost lunchtime because she would have stayed up all night playing on the computer. So there I would be, awake for 30 hrs and still washing dishes and vacuuming before going to bed and getting a quick nap because we would be having company later that day.

 

All that crap has worn on me over the years, and I'm really trying hard to stay in the marriage even though a little voice is inside of me saying, "Get out! Get out while you can!" The thing is, I still have some feelings for her despite all this, and I worry whether I can deal with a divorce and us being apart. I can't even imagine what I would do if I saw her with a future boyfriend or husband. I think I would be cool about it but then again it might ruin me.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Originally posted by Trashman

What exactly is "monetary damages"? Does that mean that she can sue me for money over emotional pain and suffering cause by the phone calls?

 

It means she could sue the woman you were talking to.

[Trashman]

Originally posted by LucreziaBorgia

It means she could sue the woman you were talking to.

 

Wow, that's a harsh state you live in. (no pun intended)

 

She's coming home tomorrow to get the rest of her stuff, but she asked if we could talk things over and wanted to know if she could bring an overnight bag so she wouldn't have to make the long drive that night to where she is staying. I of course told her yes. We'll see how things go. We both have a lot of forgiving to do I guess, but I am going to tell her that even though I have backed off on the phone calls to my friend, I have no intention of terminating our friendship altogether and she might have to suffer an occasional phone conversation. I think that is fair. What do you all think?

[Ladyjane14]

It might help you to look at Devildog's thread who has been in a situation in which his wife prioritized her "friendship" with an opposite sex friend. Take a look also at ktmriders's and Chaz87's thread as well, who are in the process of dealing with similar situations.

 

Possibly, you'll be able to identify with their viewpoint from a male perspective. What would you do if your wife put her friendship before her marriage?

 

Your friendship with a person of the opposite sex can be totally innocent of sexual wrongdoing, and still be a betrayal emotionally, particularly if it is hidden from view... as in kept Secret.

 

As in the thread's I mentioned, there is also the risk that the parameters of the friendship will change....sometimes to include sexual activity. That possibility alone introduces a level of anxiety into your spouse's outlook that can't help but be detrimental.

 

When your mate prioritizes another before you, that other person becomes an interloper in the relationship, and will be treated accordingly by the insecure spouse.

 

Your posts do paint a picture of a rather insecure woman. She most likely is lacking something in her relationship with you. While it's true, that some people are neurotically insecure no matter what you do, the majority are just missing something in their relationship that allows them to feel loved and integral.

 

If you google the words, "why women leave men" and read the article you find there, I think you'll see an analogy that helps you to understand what your wife is looking for in her relationship with you. And maybe that might help you to address her insecurities.

 

You may, or may not, be involved in an Emotional Affair. Frankly, I'd say not. But the truth is in the eye of the beholder here. If your wife feels that you are offering intimate parts of your inner self to another woman, while withholding them from her.....then that's the reality which must be dealt with.

 

My guess is that in truth, it's not so much of an EA, as it is a power struggle, in which each of you are determined NOT to have your decisions dicatated by the other. If that's the case, what you need is 'teamwork'. Resolution of the issues in which you are adversarial will be the first step in achieving that goal.

 

I think ALL of the issues you have mentioned are capable of resolution. The handiest tool for that is "the policy of joint agreement". Google for it. I think that you'll find it's a tool that will find equitable solution for you both, because it insists that decisions made together, and be based on "enthusiastic agreement" by both parties.

 

In the end, I think that if you are BOTH willing to negotiate with one another in terms that are equal and fair, and that incorporate your feelings of love for one another....your marriage is salvagable.

[Owl]

As always, I've got to agree with LJ...somewhat!

 

You're having an EA..."emotional affair". You're investing emotionally in someone other than your spouse.

 

And it's pretty obvious to me that you've made HER the priority over your marriage. Bluntly, after having been where your wife is in the scheme of things, I think you really need to stop and get a grip.

 

Here's my suggestion...give your wife a chance to be as good a friend as this other woman. Break off contact with the other woman for 3 months. Completely...tell her you've got to work on your marriage, and that you want to totally devote your effort to that for this time.

 

And see how you feel after that three months of working on your marriage and spending that energy on your relationship with your wife. Trust me...it's worth the effort to do so.

 

If you just CAN'T do that at all, then end your marriage now. Take care of your wife and family, because it's not their fault that things have gotten to this point...THEN consider your relationship with your 'friend'.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Trashman]

Hey, I seriously appreciate all the advice and opinions. Let me pose a question to you guys: If you went through something similar to what I'm putting my wife through, what were you doing to hold up your end of the wedding vows for the five years prior to said incident?

 

1. Were you the bread winner?

 

2. If not, were you working at least SOME kind of job to bring in a paycheck so that your spouse wasn't putting him/herself further in debt to pay the bills (with your name not being on any credit card, promissory note, etc. so that you essentially had a free ride with no financial obligation)?

 

3. If not, were you raising a household of rambunctious younguns so that your spouse could concentrate on bringing in the money?

 

4. If you had no kids, were you at least kicking butt on the homefront, cleaning house, cooking dinner, taking care of finances, etc.; being the homemaker, if you will?

 

I am trying hard to define a person who, short of being physically handicapped, can't answer YES to ANY of those questions. The only thing that comes to mind is "sorry-ass couch potato". If you guys can offer anything else, please step up.

 

Therefore, unless you fit the above profile, I don't think you can really put yourself in her shoes. If you do fit the above profile, then maybe that was why you went through a similar ordeal. I think 9 out of 10 people could answer YES to at least one if not more of the above questions. What does that have to do with the situation? I think it boils down to respect, and how when someone loses respect for you, they will tend to put trust in someone/something else.

[Owl]

So, what you're saying is that it's all your wife's fault for being a "sorry ass couch potato"? That it's her fault that you've decided to emotionally violate your wedding vows?

 

LOL...my friend, you're straight out of the standard script for people who have affairs of any kind.

 

So you've not done anything to contribute to your wife's 'couch potato state'? So her not doing what you wanted justifies your seeking something from someone else instead of working on your marriage? Have you tried to get marriage counseling? Have you TALKED to her about the problems (not lectured her, but tried communicating about what you feel is wrong in your marriage?...and asked her what YOU'RE not doing for her as well?) Maybe you'd consider getting the book "His Needs, Her Needs" by Steve Harley and reading it together with your wife. Try looking at it to see what needs both of you all have that aren't being met.

 

Guess what...I don't fit all of your criteria. But personally I think all of that criteria is just your method of trying to justify (read: rationalize....read: make an excuse for) you're not holding up YOUR end of things.

 

I'm trying to tell you that you can come up with all the reasons you like for not wanting to hear the advice you're getting here on this site, to include trying to disqualify those of us providing that advice on the basis of your little list, but that doesn't change one little thing. It does make it interesting to me that you felt you had to justify your 'friendship' with someone by making your wife out to be so horrible...if it was 'just a friendship', I can't imagine why you'd feel the need to do so.

 

I've made my suggestion on what you can do to fix your situation...the choice to actually do so is yours.

[Trashman]

And I suggest you read my posts a little better. I never said my wife had to meet all of those criteria I mentioned. My God, that person would be Superman. I said ANY. Did you meet ANY of those criteria, Owl, or did you sit on the couch or lay in bed 24/7 also? Maybe your wife could put up with that, but my spouse is going to have to step up or step off. Life ain't no gravy train.

 

And this whole "what did YOU do to make the other person do what THEY did" attitude is one of the sicknesses of our culture nowadays. I blame the liberals, but anyway... someone hacks up his sleeping parents in a fit of rage: "Oh that poor boy. He was obviously mistreated by his parents and it isn't his fault". Someone gets killed in a drive-by: "If it weren't for those damn gun manufacturers, this would have never happened". Someone becomes worthless and lazy: "Well her husband is no doubt the cause!" Dude, you have no idea what you are talking about. After we said "I do", she cashed in. It's as simple as that. She used to work, then BAM! I begged her to please get a job, anything at all, so that we could pay the bills and my credit wouldn't get ruined. She would say she would, then would never go out and do it despite my reminders. So I would apply for another loan or another credit card to pay the bills for the previous ones. I was working what were essentially double shifts, and unless I could find a way to eliminate SLEEP from my list of things to do in a 24 hour period of time, I really had no other means to earn income. I put up with this and all the stress that came along with it for the last five years, trying to remain as stoic and caring as I possibly could, taking her on dates, to movies, trying my best to not say "no" to her when she wanted something, and to top it off she mandates who will and will not be my friend? You mean to tell me all that was MY fault? If I am guilty of anything, it is putting up with that BS for five years and not leaving sooner.

 

Owl, what would you have done if your wife stuck you with debt, refused to work, wouldn't clean house, and basically just sat around all day long breathing, eating, and pooping? I really must know because either you and I are miscommunicating, or you are the most understanding, dedicated, and sacrificial person I have ever met. When I said "I do", my intentions were to marry a partner, not a dependent.

[Owl]

Owl, what would you have done if your wife stuck you with debt, refused to work, wouldn't clean house, and basically just sat around all day long breathing, eating, and pooping?

 

Interesting that you ask me that question...because that's basically what I felt like my wife was doing when she was leading up to and IN her emotional affair. In her case, it was untreated depression that was creating most of her problems...but for the space of about a year, that IS what my wife was doing. She spent 16+ hours a day doing NOTHING but online gaming. I took over EVERYTHING in the house...making 99% of the meals, managing the kids to get the house cleaned, you name it...and at the same time, I was going CRAZY trying to figure out what was wrong...why she was acting like that. Again...untreated depression in her case. And that lead to her beginning an online emotional affair with someone. THAT lead to a massive change in how we now live...she's still a SAHM, but she is doing a lot more around the house too. And she's getting treated for her depression. And we're both going to marriage counseling together to develop skills to keep us from ever getting back into that boat again.

 

My point to you is that while she was in the midst of her EA, she was convinced that she had been unhappy for YEARS! That she couldn't remember a time when she WAS happy...it had been at least 10 years. It's a defense mechanism...it's your mind enabling you to justify your unjustifiable actions. ANYONE involved in any kind of an affair does this. Take a look over at marriagebuilders.com...try posing your question over there on the General Questions II forum...and see what responses you get there.

 

But, if your marriage was REALLY that bad, why would you not have left her YEARS ago? Simple...because there were/are good parts to it too. But when you begin emotionally investing in someone else, you get blinders on that block out all of that. Trust me, I've been through a LOT this last year, and learned a LOT about this kind of stuff, both online and through counseling.

 

That's why I'm suggesting you STOP emotionally investing in your friend, for a set period of time. Start actively working to fix your marriage, and you can/will be AMAZED at how quickly things can turn around...I know, because I've seen it happen in my own life. I know you don't want to believe that your case could possibly be similar...but trust me, what you're saying/doing is all by the 'WS Script". And if you do what I've suggested, you'll get to a point where you'll be able to see that.

 

Think about this...was the relationship you had with your wife before you were married worth spending 3 months trying to find again? I'll bet it was, or you would never have married in the first place.

 

Try it...find a marriage counselor who is PRO-marriage, and familiar with the how to deal with infidelity. Take a three month complete break away from your 'friend'...read the books I suggested. Try a few more..."The Five Languages of Love", and "20 (Surprisingly Simple) Rules and Tools for a Great Marriage". Start dating your wife again, start TALKING with her. And see what happens. And if you've COMPLETELY followed this (no contact with friend, spent time working on your marriage and talking with your wife) and still can't stand your marriage after three months, then end it. And end it then knowing that you've given it your best shot.

 

You may think I'm full of doodoo...and you wouldn't be the first person to think so. But what have you got to lose by giving it a try? Nothing...but you'll gain at least some self assurance that you did the right thing if it doesn't work out, or you'll gain an even BETTER marriage than you had before if my plan DOES work.

[Mz. Pixie]

Wow, Owl- I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Trash- I've been you- but just in the female form. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. When you're saying all of this- you think you mean it- and you really believe it- because you're in a sort of fog as they call it. The affair is like a drug, plain and simple- it makes you high. It also makes what you have with your spouse look like dog crap.

 

If this affair is not physical, you're about a hair away from it. You're not even admitting on a MB that something's going on.

 

Your marriage deserves the three months that Owl is talking about. That way if you decide to walk away you can do so honorably, not as a cheater.

[westernxer]

If your wife takes you to court, make sure to hire a good lawyer who can keep you from getting cleaned out.

 

So what if it costs money... divorce is expensive because it's worth it. Don't go into this without a solid game plan. You'll be sorry if you take this for granted, because a good lawyer can help you fend off any attempts on her behalf to make you look bad.

 

 

[Ladyjane14]

I think the BIG question here is..... Do you want a Divorce, or are you hoping for reparation of the marriage?

 

If you are in ANY way open to reconciliation, I think you'd do VERY well to consider Owl's advice to you. One of the things that I just love about Owl's posts is that he almost always has some ideas for active measures that can be implemented into a relationship. He's posted some to you here that I think would probably help ALOT.

 

If you have NO DESIRE to save your marriage, and would in fact prefer divorce...then of course, that's your perogative. And no one is here to judge you on it. This is the Divorce/Separation forum, and nobody wants to twist your arm.

 

The trouble is, that there's only a small window of opportunity to save a marriage when things have gone to the point of separation. So, if you're as yet undecided, you may want to keep your options open. That means limiting further damage.