"If my child were to turn out gay, I'd disown his/her"

[Michelle ma Belle]

I think most people never have to deal with facing the reality of having a gay son or daughter and have the belief that they would handle it this way or that way... but....

 

In reality they don't know how they would handle it.. including yourself until you are face to face with an issue like that. We all would hope, including myself that compassion would win out in the end...

 

I would like to add however, a person is allowed their own beliefs about any subject.. including your BF.. who is to say what he feels is wrong and should change and do an about face to meet your feelings on the subject ?

 

He hasn't pushed his belief on this issue onto you and making you change the way you feel, so why is it okay that he change the way he feels about this subject ?

 

I think in the end you are both 2 different individuals and have totally separate thoughts about all kinds of things, who gets to decide who is right or wrong and who gets to compromise.

 

I hope you work this out, dating is about finding out what you like and dislike in a potential partner and if this item is a deal breaker then I'm sorry..

It seems to me that unless he has dealt with it then you don't know how he will truly handle it and it would be a shame to throw away something because you think he will say or do something you can't tolerate in some future date that may never come.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

I know how I would feel and how I would react if my child were gay or realized they were born the wrong gender and wanted to remedy this fact or whatever the case may be.

 

It's not the path I might have chosen for them but I would love my child unconditionally and do whatever I could to support them in their search for their own truth, whatever that may be.

 

I don't need to directly go through those experiences to already know the kind of parent and human being I would be and am.

 

As for my partner not pushing his beliefs on me, he hasn't 'pushed' his agenda just as I haven't pushed anything on him but I have noticed he does have some very strong opinions about many things that wouldn't really matter to me one way or the other, or differ entirely. And I'm fine with many of them. As I've said a million times on this site, I enjoy a spirited debate and love a man who can keep me on my toes. But there are some opinions that are bigger than most and where having very different perspectives matters a great deal.

 

This thread achieved what I had hoped and that was to hear other people's perspective and help me better understand how a man, and in this case a black man, could have such a strong opposing opinion to my own and how we could still make it work in the end.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Michelle ma Belle

[DKT3]

Indeed.

 

I look forward to your response!

 

MidKnightDream covered most of my point....

 

Because of those things when a black man is gay he is usually alllllll the way gay. This is the s both cultural and somewhat genetic. According to the Kinsley sexual scale only 15% of black men are halfway to all the way homosexual the other 85% are heavily heterosexual. So they (we)can't grasp the concept. This often leads to insensitive comments. If one can't empathize with someone how can they be sensitive?

 

Now, this applies mostly to men...black men view female homosexuality much different, and are far more accepting of a gay daughter than they would be a son.

 

We identify much of our manhood through woman, if there is no woman than you can't be a man...flawed thinking but it's deeply ingrained. I told my wife just the other day when she informed me that one of my little boys parents were two guys..."I don't care, just as long as they don't rub off on him" now it was a joke, I'm fully aware that it doesn't rub off, but it was a snap comment that came from cultural conditioning. We can attempt to maske these things.

 

My point is what comes out of the mouth sometimes is a snap, however if placed in the situation of having a gay child I would guess 9/10 would actually be accepting. Your BF included.

[Michelle ma Belle]

MidKnightDream covered most of my point....

 

Because of those things when a black man is gay he is usually alllllll the way gay. This is the s both cultural and somewhat genetic. According to the Kinsley sexual scale only 15% of black men are halfway to all the way homosexual the other 85% are heavily heterosexual. So they (we)can't grasp the concept. This often leads to insensitive comments. If one can't empathize with someone how can they be sensitive?

 

Now, this applies mostly to men...black men view female homosexuality much different, and are far more accepting of a gay daughter than they would be a son.

 

We identify much of our manhood through woman, if there is no woman than you can't be a man...flawed thinking but it's deeply ingrained. I told my wife just the other day when she informed me that one of my little boys parents were two guys..."I don't care, just as long as they don't rub off on him" now it was a joke, I'm fully aware that it doesn't rub off, but it was a snap comment that came from cultural conditioning. We can attempt to maske these things.

 

My point is what comes out of the mouth sometimes is a snap, however if placed in the situation of having a gay child I would guess 9/10 would actually be accepting. Your BF included.

 

Thanks DKT3. I think the part in bold was worth noting and recognize it more and more with men of color. Hell, it's ingrained into some white men as well.

 

I appreciate your return to respond.

[Miss Peach]

No personal experience with this as that's something I screen for but it would be hard for me to deal with too. It seems rare men have an issue with me being bi. But I also have some longtime gay male friends and hang out in a lot of gay bars. I need someone who can be at least tolerant of LGBT.

[DKT3]

No personal experience with this as that's something I screen for but it would be hard for me to deal with too. It seems rare men have an issue with me being bi. But I also have some longtime gay male friends and hang out in a lot of gay bars. I need someone who can be at least tolerant of LGBT.

 

You can't really screen this stuff. I will admit to being somewhat insensitive towards gay men in my past....but you would never know in casual conversation, or even guarded in-depth conversation.

 

Yet, I have a very close male cousin who is all the way gay, he ways MARRIED but no one bought that. I can be insensitive, yet I can also be tolerant. The key is never being hateful.

[Miss Peach]

You can't really screen this stuff. I will admit to being somewhat insensitive towards gay men in my past....but you would never know in casual conversation, or even guarded in-depth conversation.

 

Yet, I have a very close male cousin who is all the way gay, he ways MARRIED but no one bought that. I can be insensitive, yet I can also be tolerant. The key is never being hateful.

 

There are people who are closeted about it. But if I sense someone is anti-LGBT then that's a red flag for me.

 

On a lot of OLD sites that is something I look for in their questions. If I see things that suggest they aren't tolerant or accepting I move on.

 

In casual conversation and on dates, I don't make it a secret that I go to gay and lesbian bars, was in a gay wedding, and such. If the guy is really anti usually they would refuse to go with me and/or they would move me in their mind into the casual category and I can pick that up in their actions.

[No_Go]

The child stuff is most likely exaggeration, however this dude is NOT lgbt tolerant and will never be, opinions about this topic are deeply engrained and culture/religion matters. You can put it under the rug for the purpose of not annoying each other but this won't make him more tolerant...

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

My boyfriend is a black man. I have heard things come out of his mouth that made me pause then ask are you homophobic? He believes being homosexual is a choice, that people get up one morning and decide to be gay. Of course it's ridiculous but it's so deep ingrained in him since childhood I cannot deprogram him.

 

Oh how I wish I could explain to my 76 year old white racist (although she insists she isn't) mother how much she's exactly like same on the inside as a black man!

[amaysngrace]

This reminds me of a poor mentally challenged boy being wheeled around in Walmart last night by his dad and his dad threatening him with a fist I guess for being loud. Then the boy yelled out "angry boxing" over and over again and the dad kept telling him to shush.

 

Makes me wonder why people even bother to have children if they aren't able to love them unconditionally.

[Timshel]

So, I'm thinking this thread is a little off kilter...and here's why: I am a mixed racial adopted woman raised in the southern usa around about the 1960's.

 

My sister has been married a few times to another woman and I was in attendance twice.

 

I have to say that the way things go around here is not in any way, shape or form in touch with 'reality.' Haha, that's the internet.

[Michelle ma Belle]

So, I'm thinking this thread is a little off kilter...and here's why: I am a mixed racial adopted woman raised in the southern usa around about the 1960's.

 

My sister has been married a few times to another woman and I was in attendance twice.

 

I have to say that the way things go around here is not in any way, shape or form in touch with 'reality.' Haha, that's the internet.

 

I don't think this thread went off kilter at all. In fact I found it to be very helpful. I feel less anxious thanks in great part to those who commented specifically on the cultural differences between being raised white vs black.

 

I greatly appreciate the perspectives given by everyone who gave thoughtful responses.

[thefooloftheyear]

 

 

Black men are often expected to be and are treated as if we are more masculine than other men. Many feel the pressure to live up to that standard. Which leads to something called hypermasculinity. Athleticism, toughness, aggression, and a host of other things that include a hard anti-gay stance. The toughest guys on the planet can't be gay, right?

 

 

I dunno. man....Try growing up male in a traditional Italian family....It's probably worse than you can imagine...All the older guys smoking cigars and sporting tattoos and wife beaters, don't leave the table, while the women cook, clean, etc, knocking everything and anything that's even remotely effeminate....

 

Having said that I have a gay sibling....female...

 

Surprisingly, my bad ass tough guy dad was more tolerant of it than my mom was, initially anyway...They all got over it pretty quickly...

 

Some traditional cultures really frown upon it....but they seem all to come around..Maybe that's the case for the OP...Maybe some discussion and gain some understanding....

 

Is he Italian??

 

I only say this...And I am all male through and through..I would love my child to death whether gay or hetero...Id be lying if there wasn't a momentary "shock" over the news....but then it would settle down and things would be as normal....

 

I guess the only bummer might be not having a mini me to do all the stupid guy crap I did when I was a kid.....but that's not such a bad thing either....

 

TFY

[Timshel]

I don't think this thread went off kilter at all. In fact I found it to be very helpful. I feel less anxious thanks in great part to those who commented specifically on the cultural differences between being raised white vs black.

 

I greatly appreciate the perspectives given by everyone who gave thoughtful responses.

 

Apologies. I hope everything works out great for you and your bf.

[smackie9]

IMO everyone can have their own thoughts or feelings about differences...what I don't approve of is intolerance and going out of their way to make it known. No one in your family is out burning a cross on your front lawn and he's not out bashing gay men with a bat in back alleys, so I think you are good. He just made a comment, doesn't mean he's a bad guy.

[SammySammy]

I dunno. man....Try growing up male in a traditional Italian family....It's probably worse than you can imagine...All the older guys smoking cigars and sporting tattoos and wife beaters, don't leave the table, while the women cook, clean, etc, knocking everything and anything that's even remotely effeminate....

 

Having said that I have a gay sibling....female...

 

Surprisingly, my bad ass tough guy dad was more tolerant of it than my mom was, initially anyway...They all got over it pretty quickly...

 

Some traditional cultures really frown upon it....but they seem all to come around..Maybe that's the case for the OP...Maybe some discussion and gain some understanding....

 

Is he Italian??

 

I only say this...And I am all male through and through..I would love my child to death whether gay or hetero...Id be lying if there wasn't a momentary "shock" over the news....but then it would settle down and things would be as normal....

 

I guess the only bummer might be not having a mini me to do all the stupid guy crap I did when I was a kid.....but that's not such a bad thing either....

 

TFY

 

I can imagine.

 

One of my best friends is Italian and he's as you described. Chainsmoker. If I get lung cancer, it'll be his fault as I've never smoked. Super macho. When it's just the guys, he's says stuff some may consider misogynistic. Homophobic.

 

However, in 25-30 years of knowing him and spending A LOT of time together, I've never seen him mistreat a woman. Never seen him mistreat a gay person.

 

If you think about it though, Italian men in America have a similar historical reason for being concerned about their identity. Their masculinity. Not the same as Black men, but similar.

 

And I suspect they've actually dealt with homosexuality differently from their tough guy talk. Your father, for example. Espescially when it comes to family.

 

With certain groups of men, you have to understand the group identity before writing them off. Take what they say in context which means you MUST consider the cultural angle to make an accurate assessment of them.

Edited June 26, 2017 by MidKnightDreams

[DKT3]

I dunno. man....Try growing up male in a traditional Italian family....It's probably worse than you can imagine...All the older guys smoking cigars and sporting tattoos and wife beaters, don't leave the table, while the women cook, clean, etc, knocking everything and anything that's even remotely effeminate....

 

Having said that I have a gay sibling....female...

 

Surprisingly, my bad ass tough guy dad was more tolerant of it than my mom was, initially anyway...They all got over it pretty quickly...

 

Some traditional cultures really frown upon it....but they seem all to come around..Maybe that's the case for the OP...Maybe some discussion and gain some understanding....

 

Is he Italian??

 

I only say this...And I am all male through and through..I would love my child to death whether gay or hetero...Id be lying if there wasn't a momentary "shock" over the news....but then it would settle down and things would be as normal....

 

I guess the only bummer might be not having a mini me to do all the stupid guy crap I did when I was a kid.....but that's not such a bad thing either....

 

TFY

 

Oh geez, what I'm I going to do with my two 1/2 black 1/2 Italian son's....

[Michelle ma Belle]

IMO everyone can have their own thoughts or feelings about differences...what I don't approve of is intolerance and going out of their way to make it known. No one in your family is out burning a cross on your front lawn and he's not out bashing gay men with a bat in back alleys, so I think you are good. He just made a comment, doesn't mean he's a bad guy.

 

For the record I never said he was or would be a bad guy because of his beliefs. Or that anyone is inherently 'bad' necessarily for being homophobic.

 

I am simply concerned how our drastically opposing viewpoints on hot topics can lovingly coexist. Particularly since I am a supporter and advocate of LGBT rights.

[thefooloftheyear]

I can imagine.

 

 

 

With certain groups of men, you have to understand the group identity before writing them off. Take what they say in context which means you MUST consider the cultural angle to make an accurate assessment of them.

 

 

Dead on, man...

 

TFY

[Michelle ma Belle]

[quote name=MidKnightDream

 

With certain groups of men, you have to understand the group identity before writing them off. Take what they say in context which means you MUST consider the cultural angle to make an accurate assessment of them.[/quote]

 

Thank you again for pointing this out.

 

Normally something like this isn't easily lost on me but for whatever reason it appears such logic took an extended coffee break and I panicked.

 

I am nothing if not someone who can admit when she's wrong. I now recognise the need to be a bit more understanding of my partners culture and the way He was raised before jumping to conclusions and tossing him and his beliefs out with the bath water:p

 

Grazi tutti!!

[todreaminblue]

For the record I never said he was or would be a bad guy because of his beliefs. Or that anyone is 'bad' for being homophobic. I haveam just concerned how our drastically opposing viewpoints on hot topics can lovingly coexist. Particularly since I am a supporter and advocate of LGBT rights.

 

 

hard one.... polar opposite beliefs....from personal experience i can honestly say that until you experience something...you can have hard line approaches that you feel are the right way to handle a situation..until in all reality that situation is upon you and yours to handle......and everything changes......my daughter is gay she has never been with a man ....and rightly so ..she is still young and i believe in no sex before marriage when she told me that she was gay......it began...me trying to convince her otherwise.....stating you havent been with a man or a woman so how would you know you are really gay....her response...so are you saying mum you ant em to have sex to find out...which is a big no from me.....end of convo...till next time and i try a different tact....ends the same way at an impasse and an agree to disagree.....

 

for eyars this has been going on....and i feel so bad because with my beliefs she has been nothing but supportive....i am lds....and she loves the people i go to church with and she said to me...mum do you think they would love me if they knew....makes me tear up.....she has such a beautiful heart.....gorgeous girl she is....stunning...so cute....

 

anyway...i cant do it anymore....i just want to be her mum.....it hurts me to think of her trials she is going to face, but i cant live her life for her......i can stand beside her......and it was a humbling experience to say the least when i decided to face the fact...my daughter is gay.....and that is what i wasnt facing...as i said....when a situation becomes yours to handle and in your face and there...its completely different to stating what you would do hypothetically...and your man may or may not find this out.....

 

as far as dumping him fro an extreme view.....i feel fi her were to be nasty cruel or disrespectul to people who are homosexual says more about his character than his beliefs......i disagree with homosexuality i am not an advocate for gay rights.....but people live their lives regardless of what i believe or disbelieve in....and all i have to do as a decent human...is love them regardless if we agree or not.....and if they love me back....then ....thats an understanding i will treasure.....an acceptance to hold onto....a common ground ill maintain....one of loving regardless of differences

 

and that is what i feel you need with your man...a common ground.....dont live in the polar opposites.....they arent hospitable ...never were meant to be...you and he could find that common ground of acceptance understanding and respect for all people...not just gays or polarized groups........he should stay there on that ground.....and it will be a lot easier for you to stay ...with him..somewhere you both come together...where its warm......and comfortable....no ice to be seen..deb

[thefooloftheyear]

Thank you again for pointing this out.

 

Normally something like this isn't easily lost on me but for whatever reason it appears such logic took an extended coffee break and I panicked.

 

I am nothing if not someone who can admit when she's wrong. I now recognise the need to be a bit more understanding of my partners culture and the way He was raised before jumping to conclusions and tossing him and his beliefs out with the bath water:p

 

Grazi tutti!!

 

 

I can't speak for everyone, and MidKnight may confirm this, I dunno..but I can tell you that for Italians, it is, in many cases how mothers raise son's that creates this dynamic...

 

Most Italian women, IME, HATE effeminate men...They all want the bad guy(not necessarily the lawbreaking type, btw) the tough guy, the strong guy, the Alpha male...I think most black women I have known are the same...They instill this stuff into their male children....I know my mom is that way, and I have a male cousin that I am convinced is gay, but he'll die being a closet gay guy(with a wife and kid, no less), because to come out would devastate his mother...

 

Yep...culture plays in here...no doubt...

 

TFY

[basil67]

It always amazes me when I see an attitude which I can only, kindly, call hypocritical. Here you are, so tolerant of something - and really, it can be anything, not just homosexuality. And, now you are ready to leave your 'love' because he doesn't agree lockstep with your own beliefs. Seriously, Michelle, after you have a more serious talk about this with him, and he tells you how serious he is, you are going to walk, aren't you? There is no live and let live with divergent attitudes and beliefs, is there? Perhaps you should just do non-serious dating, as there is always going to be something serious popping up eventually...

 

But this isn't just a divergent attitude, this is about a man who says he would abandon his child. Being gay does not cause harm to others. But casting out a child who has not hurt others is a very harmful act. Very few of us would tolerate parents abandoning their child. So why should abandoning be tolerated just because the child is gay?

 

You say yourself that this isn't just being about gay. Should we tolerate our partner being obnoxious to serving staff? Should we tolerate him robbing the neighbours house? Should we tolerate the kids up the street who cyberbully their peer to the point of suicide? Does a lack of tolerance towards harmful or antisocial behaviour really make me hypocritical?

 

The day we all begin to tolerate behaviour which hurts other people will be a sad day indeed.

Edited June 26, 2017 by basil67

[Michelle ma Belle]

I can't speak for everyone, and MidKnight may confirm this, I dunno..but I can tell you that for Italians, it is, in many cases how mothers raise son's that creates this dynamic...

 

Most Italian women, IME, HATE effeminate men...They all want the bad guy(not necessarily the lawbreaking type, btw) the tough guy, the strong guy, the Alpha male...I think most black women I have known are the same...They instill this stuff into their male children....I know my mom is that way, and I have a male cousin that I am convinced is gay, but he'll die being a closet gay guy(with a wife and kid, no less), because to come out would devastate his mother...

 

Yep...culture plays in here...no doubt...

 

TFY

 

I'm Italian and have many, maybe too many relatives who were raised with that 'old school' mentality where filters and political correctness are unheard of and even mocked.

 

But when it really counts, when sh*t really hits the fan despite whatever beliefs they may have they rally for the underdog even when they don't completely understand Or approve.

 

Actions indeed speak volumes and that is what I'm counting on with my partner.

[SammySammy]

I can't speak for everyone, and MidKnight may confirm this, I dunno..but I can tell you that for Italians, it is, in many cases how mothers raise son's that creates this dynamic...

 

Most Italian women, IME, HATE effeminate men...They all want the bad guy(not necessarily the lawbreaking type, btw) the tough guy, the strong guy, the Alpha male...I think most black women I have known are the same...They instill this stuff into their male children....I know my mom is that way, and I have a male cousin that I am convinced is gay, but he'll die being a closet gay guy(with a wife and kid, no less), because to come out would devastate his mother...

 

Yep...culture plays in here...no doubt...

 

TFY

 

Yep.

 

I've also noticed it with Latin women. It seems that they expect men to be MEN. It's ingrained from a young age.

[RecentChange]

While actions speak louder than words....

 

I imagine coming out to a parent who has openly expressed these sort of views is much more difficult than to one that has expressed that they would love them no matter what their orientation.

 

I am "straight" but my parents, and especially my mother made it very very clear that no matter where I fell on this spectrum not only would I be loved, but accepted and supported with open arms.

 

My sister had a girlfriend for a while (near your nieces age) it was a non event in my family.