Emotions snow balling

[johnny12]

Hi

 

Looking for some advice. I am engaged to be married to a girl. I love her 90 % of the time things are great, however when we have arguments or small disagreements they snowball and move out of control very quickly and have often lead to her either throwing stuff at me , or trying to slap me or even spitting at me in frustration. She also says very horrible things and can not seem to control her emotions.

 

It happened a few times and we have said repeatedly that we need to figure out how to stop these things escalating and she has been to see a councillor. But it seems to still happen here and there.

 

From my point of view, it all comes about from very trivial things and I where my fault lies is arguing my case on everything when I feel like I am being nagged, I will often be snappy and argue my corner. From her point of view she can’t seem to stop getting so frustrated by me, and says that she runs out of words and therefore lashes out. She therefore claims that I drive her to this, and I simply won’t accept that it is my fault or I drive her to anything. I fully accept my responsibility for being a dick head and frustrating her but her actions are out of the realm of proportion.

 

I popped the question in hope that we could work through this and its happened again , I have now left the house and I have huge doubts hanging over me. I love the girl and wish this wasn’t happening and she still thinks if we go to counselling together and individually we can work through it before getting married.

 

What I need to change is the way I react to being told what to do and making her feel like a nag. What she needs to change is how to not react and go over the top at the smallest things. I have told her that no matter what I do there is no excuse to be abusive yet she still says … she has never done it before she never does it with any one else therefore implies her reaction is down to me. The frustration is down to me yes but the actions are not.

 

Advice please.

[act00]

If you're having these issues now, how bad is it going to be later, when your lives blend more, kids enter the picture, stresses of finances, household responsibilities, raising children, etc. You're starting off on a very rocky foundation, and you made a grave mistake thinking "popping the question" would resolve anything. It doesn't. Neither does having a baby, which people will do. It is unacceptable that she lashes out at you physically in any way, and flying off the handle over tiny things. Your reactions to her "nagging" seems to be quite problematic, and I wonder if your reaction, while not physical, is about as extreme. Marriage takes a lot of work and compromise. It's not an easy walk in the park. If you fight like cats and dogs over little stuff, what happens when big stuff occurs? Counselling might work, but TBH, you don't sound compatible and she sounds frightening. You both have to figure out how to manage anger and emotion.

[trailwolf]

yall need to end this relationship now ( asap ) and get on with ur lives , this will do nothing but get worse , GET OUT NOW !

[lericenciel]

timing is everything. You're good together but now right now. You guys can't fix this together. You need a break up for a bit and figure it out.

[Mrin]

Get out now. Her reactions are not just "learning how to react differently". Getting physically violent and spitting suggests FAR deeper issues that some simple couples counseling can fix. She needs to do some serious work.

[smackie9]

You both cheated on each other, and never did get along....what makes you think being engaged is going to make this all go away. You both have issues, and it's high time you face reality that you guys just need to call it quits already.

[johnny12]

Can i just say we both did not cheat on each other ...

 

The previous post was when i was 25 with a long gone ex girlfriend...

 

I have been together with my fiance for 2 years

[Downtown]

She still thinks if we go to counselling together and individually we can work through it before getting married.

Johnny, I agree with Mrin that you're describing issues "FAR deeper issues that some simple couples counseling can fix."

She cannot seem to control her emotions.

The inability to control one's own emotions is a warning sign (i.e., symptom) for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Indeed, it is such a key feature of BPD that a large segment of the psychiatric community has been lobbying for over two decades to change the name from "BPD" to "Emotion Regulation Disorder."

 

Small disagreements... have often lead to her either throwing stuff at me , or trying to slap me or even spitting at me in frustration.

If your fiancee is a BPDer (i.e., is on the upper third of the BPD spectrum), she carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing to TRIGGER a release of anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- oftentimes in only ten seconds.

 

For this reason, the physical abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at 50% of Batterers are BPDers. Similarly, a 2008 study and a 2012 study find a strong association between violence and BPD.

 

Looking for some advice.

If you are still intent on marrying this young lady, I would strongly advise you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you're dealing with. I also would suggest that, while you're looking for a good psychologist, you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells and raises questions, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your fiancee's issues. Although it is easy to spot strong BPD symptoms when they occur, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation, e.g., marrying a very immature woman or running into the arms of another woman just like her. Take care, Johnny.

[johnny12]

Thank you for your reply

 

Looking at both threads there are only a couple of things that really resonate. However not many

 

She has full blown anxiety and tends to blow small things into the end of the world in the matter of minutes instead of being able to argue 'normaly'

 

4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude (e.g., not appreciating all the 3-hour trips you made to see her for two years) and a double standard

 

- Often she will tell me that I don't do enough and I am inconsiderate she does not remember the good things only the bad. I am probably not very considerate some times.

 

5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells;

6. Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later;

- This is the main issue - she says she is not flipping out at the minor issue , but my response to the issue or my perceived argumentative reaction, when she has asked me several times to do something and then i havent done it as an example - Does she want t be with some one that lets her down. My reaction to this is that I am not letting her down its such a small thing and boom were into an argument

 

11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending);

She has the opposite trait and cant make a decision and is never reckless

 

12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well;

 

Again the opposite she says she has never behaved like this before with any one and her ex partner was much more easy going than i am and never argumentative . So therefore its an issue with me/ us

 

15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing;

 

Yes she always says she needs some one to be calming and she does not find me calming and she thinks she always has to check up on me in terms of have i done the house work or what ever it may be

 

I want more than anything to work this out but is it a waste of time .

[Downtown]

Johnny, do you see any signs indicating she has a fear of abandonment? For example, does she seem jealous when catching you looking at or speaking to another woman, even when you're doing nothing wrong? Or does she seem jealous when you spend time with your friends and family members because she regards it as you choosing them over her?

 

Also, when she creates fights and drama over very minor issues, does this tend to occur soon after intimacy? I ask because, when a person has a fear of engulfment, she will have a strong feeling of being controlled and suffocated during intimacy. The result is that, immediately after intimacy, she often will create a fight -- over absolutely nothing at all -- to push you away and give her breathing room. Because all of this occurs at the subconscious level, she will firmly believe -- at the conscious level -- that her anger is being caused by the absurd incident she is arguing about. (This is why these people typically create the very WORST fights immediately after -- if not during -- the very BEST of times.)

[johnny12]

No absolutely not a hint of any of the above ... In fact quite the opposite she wants my family and friends to be a bigger part of my life than I do at times also in addition I go away with the boys on holiday or nights out , and there is never issues whats so ever, and that part of our relationship is amazing

 

Recently when i returned from a stag party she had ice cream , pain killers and fresh juice waiting for me upon my return which was amazing .

 

Where arguments happen , are never after intimacy they are when she has got to the end of her patience with me and I have then argued my case - she says its like dealing with a teenager. She gets immensly frustrated and then loses her cool.

 

While I see that any sort of action is bad against me i do accept that I am a frustrating person to live with at times and this is something I am working hard on. She is rightly worried and so am i on how we can stop such small things turning into something massive.

 

She is very anxious and unlike me sees any argument as REALLY BAD for me i wouldn't mind if she just shouted at me and got annoyed , sulked or what ever as long as once that was out of the way we could then just move on like normal.

 

I don't think she suffers from the BPD , as she is very level in so many ways... I am obviously concerned about marrying into a world where any sort of argument could go mental but she is admitting her self she cant do it so i see that there is hope for us maybe?

[Maggie4]

There is a lack of mutual respect. She's probably frustrated that you hear her but not listen to her. But she doesn't flip out at work, right? That's lack of respect for you. You probably know how to aggravate her, which you call being a dick head. I imagine saying things that make her feel small. That's lack of respect for her.

 

People treat those closest to them the worst. No longer following social norms behind closed doors, that's why it looks like madness. You'd both be on better behavior if friends, coworkers are watching. Remember there is no love without respect. Be polite.

 

Next time you see it escalating, first apologize for what you've just said, then ask her if she would like to take back what she just said. Tell her you'd like time to think before speaking again. Then shut up.

[Gaeta]

Hi

From my point of view, it all comes about from very trivial things and I where my fault lies is arguing my case on everything when I feel like I am being nagged, I will often be snappy and argue my corner. From her point of view she can’t seem to stop getting so frustrated by me, and says that she runs out of words and therefore lashes out. She therefore claims that I drive her to this, and I simply won’t accept that it is my fault or I drive her to anything. I fully accept my responsibility for being a dick head and frustrating her but her actions are out of the realm of proportion.

 

What I need to change is the way I react to being told what to do and making her feel like a nag. What she needs to change is how to not react and go over the top at the smallest things. I have told her that no matter what I do there is no excuse to be abusive yet she still says … she has never done it before she never does it with any one else therefore implies her reaction is down to me. The frustration is down to me yes but the actions are not.

 

 

Words coming out of all abusers:

 

* says that she runs out of words and therefore lashes out

* She therefore claims that I drive her to this,

* therefore implies her reaction is down to me

 

Words coming out of all victims of abuse:

 

* my fault lies is arguing my case on everything

* I will often be snappy and argue my corner

* I fully accept my responsibility (...) frustrating her

* What I need to change is

 

 

Your girlfriend is an abuser, she is emotionally and physically abusing you. It's not because you're the male of this relationship that it's ok for her to push you or hit you. She has serious anger management problems and needs serious counseling and not just for a couple of months, she needs it for years to come. She is not fit to be in a relationship and certainly not fit for marriage. These outbursts of anger will not be limited to you, she'll eventually transfer them to your children.

 

If you think it's hard now wait till you are married, her 20% will become a 75% in no time. It's time for you to end this toxic relationship.

[johnny12]

Correct, I do not think before I speak at times and that is my problem.. and correct i am a dick head no question , I cant imagine any man is never a dick head.

 

I see a few areas of improvement

 

1) the way she speaks to me when pulling me up on a mistake , instantly makes me defensive

- perhaps she could look at differnt ways to approach it if i piss her off and i need to not get defensive

 

2) If I am defensive 9/10 im not - how she handles her frustrations to me going back at her with my points.

 

The biggest question I am wrestling with is .. Should it be this hard , should I have to change who I am and will I ever match her expectations unless they are lowered.

[Gaeta]

Hi

 

and have often lead to her either throwing stuff at me , or trying to slap me or even spitting at me in frustration. She also says very horrible things and can not seem to control her emotions.

 

Stop trying to excuse her behavior, stop trying to justify it, stop taking the blame for abuse.

 

No matter how annoying you can get, no matter how much you pull her chain, it will NEVER justify throwing stuff at you, slap you, or spitting on you!!!

 

Anyone, men or women, should be able to express themselves without the fear of being hit, or spit on.

 

No matter how you change yourself she will not stop lashing at you because the problem is NOT you, the problem is within her.

 

How can you be with a woman that spitted on you ??? where is your pride, your self-worth? where is your dignity??

[Maggie4]

The biggest question I am wrestling with is .. Should it be this hard , should I have to change who I am and will I ever match her expectations unless they are lowered.

 

If you change yourself for the better, then it's a good thing. No, it isn't supposed to be this hard. It can very well be that after you split up, you are nicer to the next girlfriend. And your current gf does not behave this way with her next boyfriend, and he never finds out she has ever physically lashed out at anyone. You bring out the worst in each other. Sometimes love is not enough.

 

I think you need to have a talk with her. She's probably thinking about breaking up as well.

[johnny12]

I hear you. I have said that to her myself.

 

Put the words in my mouth and what would you be saying and would any one be saying including the police. If i was saying to her " you push me to it , you push my buttons and thats why i hit you darling ... " Ive even said that if i slept with your sister it wouldn't excuse a violence.

 

The answer is I would be most likely arrested and there is not a chance we would stay together.

 

I feel like I am slightly answering my own question when you look at it in black and white, she is absolutely terrified racked with anxiety and I do love her to pieces. Am I wrong to think that we can try and go and figure this out together and that not one size fits all in situations like this?

[johnny12]

If you change yourself for the better, then it's a good thing. No, it isn't supposed to be this hard. It can very well be that after you split up, you are nicer to the next girlfriend. And your current gf does not behave this way with her next boyfriend, and he never finds out she has ever physically lashed out at anyone. You bring out the worst in each other. Sometimes love is not enough.

 

I think you need to have a talk with her. She's probably thinking about breaking up as well.

 

Yes she is in a bad place .. also , its not as if she thinks all is ok, we are on the brink of breaking up and cancelling the wedding which is already booked.

[Jersey born raised]

30 years ago I attend a pre-marriage conference for a day with my ex. A great experience but they kept segueing into if there is abuse, if there are drug issues, if there are alcohol problems come to us and postpone your wedding. They kept repeating these problems will only worsen. You can have a great marriage with this person but come to us first.

 

Truth

[Chilli]

If you change yourself for the better, then it's a good thing. No, it isn't supposed to be this hard. It can very well be that after you split up, you are nicer to the next girlfriend. And your current gf does not behave this way with her next boyfriend, and he never finds out she has ever physically lashed out at anyone. You bring out the worst in each other. Sometimes love is not enough.

 

I think you need to have a talk with her. She's probably thinking about breaking up as well.

 

 

Yep this is the sort of thing l've been thinking.

No excuse for her bs but you also do drive each other nuts.

[barnabas17]

Hi there,

 

I'm really glad you found someone who's really passionate about you; I'm just praying that things will work out.

 

I have a few random points that will hopefully give perspective or resonate with you:

 

- Some respond to conflict with a "fight or flight" mentality; conflict resolution is rarely natural for people; it requires skills, patience, and a lot of practice.

 

- Consider seeking pre-marital counselling, whether through a wise mentor couple, a church pastor, etc. The counselling should involve you both since you are about to make a mutual commitment for life

 

- In old French literature, there's an interesting metaphor/symbol of love, that love and hate are two sides of same coin. You can tell that when two people care about one another, the little things irk them more; also, criticism, even if given objectively and factually, can be hard to handle--it's part of our human condition, our self-centeredness and pride; that's why this forum exists because we all have to look beyond ourselves and be sacrificial to really make things work.

 

- weddings do not resolve things; in fact the preparation for a wedding tends to reveal many unresolved issues which is why I'd emphasize my second point. What baggage you carry into your marriage will still be there.

 

- I'd have to say that relationships are hard work and a marriage requires even more work than most because it is a life-time commitment; you won't be 'unfriending' your spouse; you need to work through it all. I think marriage is like raising a kid, it takes a village. The best things are worth fighting for, though.